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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Alltel / August 2005What to expect with AllTel?
Our small privately held regional provider just closed their sale to AllTel, but the big public rollout won't be until 1 June. Things will roll along as usual until then. Our company began a transition to GSM last year, and we switched to it with a 2-year contract (we've long ago learned to trust the old company so we didn't worry about that long a commitment). Though some of the contract terms were a bit vague, they weren't substantially different than our old contracts from previous plans (we've stayed with the company for about 8 years now and learned to trust them very highly). We just "knew" the price would stay the same through the contract, and they'd raise rates if they needed to only after the contract period expired. They've been outstanding in that regard over the years. Plus their rates have always been the best available. Enter AllTel. Our rates are far below anything AllTel has on their web site for similar plans, and other provisions are much better too. But the contract AllTel now owns for the next year and a half, gives them the ~right~ to raise the rates during the contract period, if they so choose. And on top of that, the stong rumor is that they'll give us all new phones and convert us to an "equivalent" CDMA plan (which would seem plausible since they don't do GSM). That would mean either much higher prices, or *very* substantially reduced minutes and other features, if we're stuck with AllTel's current rate plans. Has anyone had experience with an AllTel takeover of their provider? I'd appreciate experiences particularly with how they handled rates/plans that were substantially better then what they offer to their own current customers, and whether they moved quickly to switch from GSM to CDMA or allowed the contracts to expire before phasing out their newly acquired GSM equipment. (Our provider has been selling GSM contracts like crazy since Thanksgiving, and interestingly they're STILL selling GSM even though AllTel now fully owns the company - just hasn't changed the signs yet. They're even still running special inducements to bring in more GSM business. Go figure.... Personally, I'm suspicious, since AllTel could have stopped that on 1 March with ease.) We don't have a clue what AllTel will do in terms of enforcing the contracts and/or higher rates (legal under the contract) and even different technology. And with the 2 year agreement, we've got a $200 non-prorated early termination penalty that could force us into some expensive decision making (we'd never have signed that contract had we known they'd be bought by AllTel just 5 months after we signed it). In short, we just don't know what to expect, and I don't trust AllTel until they show by experience they can be trusted. From some indications so far (plus their own web site), I'm not optimistic. Experiences? Good? Bad? Ugly?!? {great I hope???} Thanks. CR > Our small privately held regional provider just closed their sale to <snip> Who is (was) your small regional provider? > (Our provider has been selling GSM contracts like crazy since > Thanksgiving, and interestingly they're STILL selling GSM even though > AllTel now fully owns the company - just hasn't changed the signs yet. > They're even still running special inducements to bring in more GSM > business. Go figure.... Personally, I'm suspicious, since AllTel > could have stopped that on 1 March with ease.) There is a possibility that Alltel will continue to maintain the GSM network. Alltel has agreed to purchase Western Wireless, another CDMA carrier. Western Wireless has been aggressively overlaying GSM coverage over the entire network, and the GSM is exclusively for roamers. Because spectrum has been transferred from other wireless providers to Western Wireless specifically for GSM overlay, I presume that Alltel will either have to keep that spectrum in GSM or return it to the wireless providers in which it came from. Rumor has it that Alltel will also start overlaying GSM in its own network areas, where roaming revenue may make that feasible. > We don't have a clue what AllTel will do in terms of enforcing the > contracts and/or higher rates (legal under the contract) and even [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > until they show by experience they can be trusted. From some > indications so far (plus their own web site), I'm not optimistic. We'll have to see. I don't think it's usual for GSM carriers to sell out to CDMA carriers. Or vice-versa. > Experiences? Good? Bad? Ugly?!? {great I hope???} > > Thanks. > > CR >Who is (was) your small regional provider? PSC (previously known as Public Service Cellular) located in Alabama & GA. >Rumor has it that Alltel will >also start overlaying GSM in its own network areas, where roaming >revenue may make that feasible. I hope that rumor's true, of course. >I don't think it's usual for GSM carriers to sell >out to CDMA carriers. Or vice-versa. I suspect this privately held company decided after many years to either bail out because they saw handwriting on the wall, or saw a good profit to be made and decided to "move on." I've wondered if they possibly over-extended, given that they're the lowest price in town with excellent features, plus they suddenly went to GSM last year rather aggressively. I've also wondered if the AllTel deal was in the works long before anyone on the outside (or most of those inside, for that matter) heard about it. Unless it was planned that AllTel will keep GSM, it just seems a little unlikely that the owners would go to GSM so aggressively, market a very competitive product equally aggressively, sell out, and AllTel allows them to continue to sell GSM contracts almost exclusively now, even though the deal was finalized this past Monday. They don't expect to be doing anything different any time soon, either. Still, our lower-than-anybody-else plans undercut what AllTel charges anyone coming into AllTel via internet sign-up. We'll see.... CR >>Who is (was) your small regional provider? > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > CR It could also be that Alltel has not current plans to convert that to CDMA, but keep the GSM system as a wholly owned subsidiary...possibly not even associating it with the Alltel brand name. Rural Cellular does something like this. TH >There is a possibility that Alltel will continue to maintain the GSM >network. Alltel has agreed to purchase Western Wireless, another CDMA [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >We'll have to see. I don't think it's usual for GSM carriers to sell >out to CDMA carriers. Or vice-versa. I just learned a couple of days ago from a PSC Wireless (officially owned but not yet "branded" by AllTel) representative, that 15 July 05 is the target date to finish turning off PSC's GSM network and have everyone converted over to CDMA. This has not yet been announced to the public, and details of the transition are yet to be disclosed. What is very unsettling is the fact that someone at the very top of PSC knew well before the January 05 public announcement about the sale to AllTel. Yet starting in the latter part of 2004 (and pushed significantly starting with the Thanksgiving-Christmas holiday period, and continuing even after the sale), GSM contracts were marketed in PSC's coverage area as if they were the only thing worth having on the face of the earth. The rates and features were almost too good to be true. I'm looking at my latest bill (typical) for $56. For that price, where else can one get the following: not one, but two different numbers (and phones), so either or both of us can travel anywhere in the U.S. and use our phones nights (after 7pm) and weekends as long as we want, call anywhere in the U.S. from anywhere in the U.S. without roaming charges, and also have 800 anytime minutes (i.e. 7am-7pm M-F; after that it's night and weekend time) regardless of whether we're in our home area or not. It should have been seen as too good to be true, because it was. It was a loss-leader. PSC had always been very, very customer oriented, and very fair. With some changes in upper management a year or two ago, that changed, though "we" customers didn't realize why things were deteriorating - we just knew it was not the same service we were used to. My belief is that the upper levels of PSC, unknown to the sales or CSR levels of course, designed the new low cost plans and aggressively marketed them in order to lock in large numbers of 1- and 2-year contracts, to fatten the sale deal. Even after the sale was annonced, and continuing after it was fully closed on 28 February, the same low cost plans were pushed heavily. Now only a month later it's already known at the lower levels that AllTel never had any intention of continuing the GSM contracts even to the end of the existing contract periods. We'll all be forced into some unknown CDMA plan within about 90 days. We will be "offered" replacement phones, and the company will be "fair" to its customers, I was told the other day, but the nice young lady could not explain what "fair" meant, and wouldn't even come close to promising that the same contract provisions currently in place would continue. Unfortunately, I read the fine print far too late that unlike previous PSC contracts, these allow the company to increase rates any time they desire. And unlike current AllTel contracts, there's no "material change" clause, meaning they can up the rates as much as they want without customer recourse (except paying a $200 early termination fee). At least with current AllTel customers, if rates go up by more than 10%, they have a 30 day option to end the contract without penalty. I can only imagine what AllTel is going to do with that "goodie." It may become very well worth it to pay the $200 exit penalty and take our GSM phones to T-Mobile, for their closest available plan. Looking at AllTel's web site tells me they aren't likely to come up with ANYthing even close to what we currently have under the existing contracts. Thus, $200 to get out of AllTel could be far cheaper than continuing the current contracts. Stupid me. I knew that "too good to be true" usually is, but trusted PSC due to nearly 10 years service with them - mostly exceptional. Little did I (and many others) know. Judging from comments I've personally heard from a number of existing PSC (now AllTel) customers who bought the GSM contracts in the past 6 months, there's going to be a huge outcry that will look very bad for AllTel, and probably make the acquisition of PSC far less lucrative, unless they at least continue the current contract provisions in their conversion of GSM contracts to CDMA. I suspect that their loss of revenue for the duration of the recent 1 and 2 year contracts, as large numbers of customers bail out, will be far more than the revenue generated by a mere $200/customer one time cancellation fee. And the bad press that I already know is planned (conditioned on AllTel's treatment of PSC contract holders) should do an even "nicer" job on their ability to attract new customers in the former PSC area they purchased. Hopefully it won't become necessary. We'll see.... CR >>There is a possibility that Alltel will continue to maintain the GSM >>network. Alltel has agreed to purchase Western Wireless, another CDMA [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > their ability to attract new customers in the former PSC area they > purchased. Hopefully it won't become necessary. We'll see.... Good luck. I hope Alltel treats you appropriately (in terms of customer service, not corporate profits). My worries are what Alltel plans to do with the GSM infrastructure of Western Wireless. There was a press release that said Alltel planned to keep all current GSM infrastructure in place (for roaming purposes) and possible even expand GSM coverage. Of course, with Western Wireless being legally bound to GSM coverage with contracts and even the transfer of spectrum exclusively for GSM service, Alltel would find itself in trouble if it shut down WW's GSM. Maybe, if you put enough of an uproar, you'll get to keep your plan. It's expensive to provide customer service, so the more you call, the more expensive it will be for them when you vent on each customer service rep. TH >My worries are what Alltel plans to do with the GSM infrastructure of >Western Wireless. There was a press release that said Alltel planned to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >of spectrum exclusively for GSM service, Alltel would find itself in >trouble if it shut down WW's GSM. It depends on the contract provisions. I found out recently that the agreement our former/current provider has with Cingular/ATT & T-Mobile can be modified under all sorts of provisions. For example, we learned that T-Mobile elected to withdraw some of its towers from the roaming agreement between them and PSC (our current/former provider). It's all in the contract. It would depend if the WW contracts are set in stone for certain time periods or not - and they may well not be just so there's a safety bailout clause in case it becomes "necessary" (or more profitable). It would seem somewhat strange that AllTel would keep GSM in one takeover, but shut it down in another. But what we're being told is that we'll all have to have new phones by July because we'll be switched to CDMA - no choice about it. The employees are just awaiting the actual training on the details. >Maybe, if you put enough of an uproar, you'll get to keep your plan. >It's expensive to provide customer service, so the more you call, the >more expensive it will be for them when you vent on each customer >service rep. And there are other means of applying pressure - like unfavorable and broad press/media coverage in local papers, talk shows, etc. I know for certain that there are those (including myself) who are just waiting to put those plans into action - depending, of course, on what AllTel does with current customers locked into contracts. C.R. First and foremost, as an account executive with both alltel and the company I currently work for (though now as an RF performance tech), I completely resent the advice to complain to as many cust service reps as you can. At alltel, we had NOTHING to do with any decisions made at the corporate level. There are so many rungs in the ladder to the person that made that call it would take years to climb it. Don't waste their time and give them that stress. Also, keep in mind that companies in this field have "Notes" on every account, and each contact is "noted". The more of a jerk you are, the more unwilling to accomodate you a company will be. If you feel stressing an innocent representative out is a way to get what you want, think again. I'm sure you're aware of how unhappy cooks can spit in food, likewise unhappy reps can make things even harder for you. Secondly, I was hired at alltel right after it took over a smaller company named centurytel. The transition was horrible. Customers were sold CDMA phones before their cell sites supported cdma, meaning all calls were analog. The deadline came and went for the upgrade to be completed several times. My experience working for alltel was horrible, and I quit before I had another job lined up or any money saved just because I could no longer stand their practices. My advice to you would be to find another GSM provider in your area: cingular/at&t/centennial wireless... I'm not sure who's there. GSM is a better and more reliable network and has a lot more to offer. I would not be surprised if in a year verizon/alltel convert. Pay the ETF and get out! >First and foremost, as an account executive with both alltel and the >company I currently work for (though now as an RF performance tech), I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >made that call it would take years to climb it. Don't waste their time and >give them that stress. My "First and foremost" is that I wasn't the one who suggested that option. I noted that there are some other types of options ready to be put in place if AllTel decides to play hardball. Your resentment should be directed toward another poster, if you feel a need to direct it somewhere. At the same time, while I tend to agree with not taking it out on low level employees, if the complaints are politely made to the CSR, and enough customers call with complaints, they do (or should) filter up the line. That's part of the customer service function. If customers aren't being properly serviced, it definitely warrants a call - politely of course, since those folks obviously don't make policy and have no authority. If customers don't call, management can legitimately assume customers are happy. But if customer service is bombarded with complaints (large number of people with strong complaints and threats to terminate service, not large number of complaints by a few people who keep calling over and over), management will likely get the message and then the ball's in their court. >My advice to you would be to find another GSM provider in your area: >cingular/at&t/centennial wireless... I'm not sure who's there. GSM is a >better and more reliable network and has a lot more to offer. I would not >be surprised if in a year verizon/alltel convert. Pay the ETF and get out! I'll do that if they try to force their CDMA plan at any higher cost than I'm now paying. If they can give me exactly what I'm paying for now in terms of service, I don't care if it's CDMA or GSM. And the new phones better be free, too. We were suckered into GSM contracts that were, apparently, too good to be true. I have no doubt that there was collusion between the old company and AllTel to boost customers (with contracts) before the sale was announced. If AllTel won't honor them, I'll pay the ETF because it would probably be cheaper anyway than staying with a more expensive plan and being angry about it for the next 1½ years. Plus, I will not continue to give them long term business (nor will a number of others - this is really taking on a life of its own, and I suspect it'll really explode big time once the majority of the recent contract holders see what's going on). It's gonna be fun to watch - assuming AllTel hasn't learned from past experience. We watched a regional cable company end up filing bankruptcy after they messed over a large number of new customers by suckering them in with a "great" deal. Large numbers of them rebelled very vocally as they switched to the other available cable providers, thereby reducing the "trash" company's long term revenue. This area's already been there, done that. The other wireless companies in this area (at least 5 off the top of my head, including two GSM carriers) are quite aware of the "pick-off" opportunity looming just ahead for AllTel customers. Oh, those "special offers" for switching from AllTel can be quite beneficial to former AllTel customers, as well as AllTel's competition! Like I said, it's gonna be fun! C.R. OK at least two things here... At alltel and the company I am at now, there is no procedure for customer complaints... what you say stresses us out, but that's as far as it gets. If you actually want to get the result you stated from that, you need to ask for management or higher,not the call center/store rep. In fact, one of the fastest ways to get to upper management is to first ask for management at your local level. If you can't talk on the phone, try to e- mail them. If you don't get a response this way, feel free to file a complaint with the BBB, this goes directly to the general manager or higher then back to the store level if needed to resolve. Secondly, I think it's sad that you would stay with alltel if they let you keep your same rates, and would consider CDMA. Maybe you don't know the difference? CDMA is a technology that allows the most users per channel with poorer quality=most profit for company. Also you can still roam on analog (for the time being), meaning there will be static in your calls. Also, GSM is, after all, the Global System for Mobile communications, so should you travel, you will have a compatible handset. Finally, GSM is the most reliable network... our biggest problems actually go back to the trunk (landline). CDMA has to maintain perfect power at all times, meaning if one thing goes wrong a large area is affected. So why would you stay with alltel despite their poor customer service record, bad business practices, and cdma technology? Anymore there is rarely a real difference in plans... quit being so cheap and thank a good company for providing you with topnotch coverage, adaptible technology, and great customer service!! >>Secondly, I think it's sad that you would stay with alltel if they let you >keep your same rates, and would consider CDMA..... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >company for providing you with topnotch coverage, adaptible technology, and >great customer service!! Very simple. With a 2-phone plan, I've just learned that they take them as literally two separate contracts (which, after all, were signed by me). Therefore TWO $200 ETFs. I can't afford $400 to "teach AllTel a lesson," so to speak. I'll have to "eat" whatever they give us or fight like crazy, or accept their binding arbitration. If the plan is similar to what we have (well below AllTel's published rates on their web site), I'll stick it out for another 18 months, and never, never again sign a 2-year contract, no matter how good the inducement is, or how good the company's been to me/us. Our prior company (PSC Wireless) used to be an absolutely outstanding company. Customer service was wonderful (fair, cheerful, and responsive), phone service was excellent, etc. Little did anyone know (except at the very top levels) that AllTel was buying them out until early this year. That allowed them to sucker a very large number of GSM customers in, knowing full well they'd be converted to CDMA once the deal was closed. My nice phone would be GREAT to take over to T-Mobile, but at $400 for the "privilege," it's not do-able. That's why. C.R. > I just learned a couple of days ago from a PSC Wireless (officially > owned but not yet "branded" by AllTel) representative, that 15 July 05 > is the target date to finish turning off PSC's GSM network and have > everyone converted over to CDMA. If the buyout is just happening this is an impossible date unless Alltel is already a player in the market and has a CDMA system in place. The time frame is too short to order, manufacturer, install, test and change out equipment. Look to me like you might be worrying about something that won't happen. A complete conversion might take up to 2 years depending on the number of sites involved. Also, it is easy to share technologies for a period although I am sure that Alltel wants to get to it's CDMA as soon as possible. No, the deal was sealed 1 February, if I recall correctly. They originally said they'd start converting us over in June, but they've moved that back to 15 July and are sticking to it. We keep getting bits and pieces from their people, who also seem not to have gotten much training yet. But what we're hearing now is that there may be a "service charge" for new phones for anyone who purchased contracts after sometime in March ('05). Note that they CONTINUE to sell GSM contracts almost identical to the very low rates available before Christmas, under the PSC name (no sign changes yet, but we've all gotten our "welcome" letters from AllTel, and that's now who's billing us). They claim it'll just be a simple change over to new phones for the people who don't know what's going on and are falling for the nice $50 GSM contracts with all sorts of good features (very similar to the deals we got late last year). It all just seems very strange and counter-productive to me, but maybe there's a method in their madness. Somehow I'm skeptical about it being in anyone's best interests except AllTel (and the sell-outs at PSC). The one thing that all the reps are "certain" of seems to be that GSM gets turned off pretty soon after 15 July - that's what AllTel is telling them, and instructing them to say. So I guess AllTel's going to be doing some leasing from other companies for the time being. I don't know why they're so dead set on getting rid of the GSM service PSC put in place, but it's happening. Guess we'll see what they announce in about a month. CR >> I just learned a couple of days ago from a PSC Wireless (officially >> owned but not yet "branded" by AllTel) representative, that 15 July 05 [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >sites involved. Also, it is easy to share technologies for a period although >I am sure that Alltel wants to get to it's CDMA as soon as possible. keyes04@netscape.net Wrote: > No, the deal was sealed 1 February, if I recall correctly. They > originally said they'd start converting us over in June, but they've [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > I am sure that Alltel wants to get to it's CDMA as soon as possible. > - Let me cut to the chase. Alltel plans to let the customers in you market retain the plans that they have at this time. If you choose t make changes to it in the future because the plan is no longer workin out for you then you will have to aquire a CDMA telephone and you ca choose from the available plan options. If you read any contract fo any cell phone company anywhere it clearly says that the compan reserves the right to change the plan at anytime. It is a lega disclaimer. It is not specific to you. The fact is that the cellula industry changes every single day in dramatic ways that you can't begi to imagine and we are being heavily regulated by the federal governmen in everything that we do. We do our best to meet our customer's need and maintain the business. We can't please everyone all the time -- IMNRM >Let me cut to the chase. Alltel plans to let the customers in your >market retain the plans that they have at this time. Simply not true. Alltel will shut off the GSM service by December, thereby forcing a change by all existing PSC GSM customers - like it or not. >If you choose to >make changes to it in the future because the plan is no longer working >out for you then you will have to aquire a CDMA telephone and you can >choose from the available plan options. There is no "choose" option when a service is cut off by the company. By definition that IS a "plan [that] is no longer working out for" the customer - by company choice. > If you read any contract for >any cell phone company anywhere it clearly says that the company >reserves the right to change the plan at anytime. Yup. And some companies play decently with their customers, and some don't. That was why I stayed with PSC for nearly a decade - best policies and customer service I've seen in a long time, particularly in the cell phone business. I began my first full day with our new carrier today (NOT Alltel). > We can't please everyone all the time. That's sure an easy statement to roll off one's tongue. And equally easy is the response: In Alltel's case, they certainly didn't even come close to trying very hard. But if they don't care to retain customers, that's also a choice. Despite the terribly inadequate training obviously provided to their employees, causing (and allowing) very bad information to be given out to customers, I do have to give the company credit for finally allowing termination of service without a penalty in this case, where there otherwise would have been a roughly 40% increase in cost per month! Ironically, had they trained their employees from the start on what to say, what NOT to say, and what the policy would be, they would not have created considerable ill will among a number of customers, and may well have retained their business. So let me cut to the chase as well: we have choices, too, and we exercise them. C.R. > Despite the terribly inadequate training obviously provided to their > employees, causing (and allowing) very bad information to be given out > to customers, I do have to give the company credit for finally > allowing termination of service without a penalty in this case, where > there otherwise would have been a roughly 40% increase in cost per > month! Kudos for Alltel finally allowing people to end their contracts withou penalty. I was given three different explanations as to what my option would be at changeover time, in addition to two different explanation b Cingular. Clearly, no one knew how this was going to go. It's a sham they didn't have their sh1t together from the jump. We made the switc to Cingular this week, at a cost of $200 (equipment), plus $1 activation per line. With this, we have at least 12 friends and famil we get M2M with -- steverino keyes04@netscape.net Wrote: > Our small privately held regional provider just closed their sale to > AllTel, but the big public rollout won't be until 1 June. Things will [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > CR Ugly...so far. We signed a two-year deal with ATT wireless las summer, in order to get the nights at 7pm deal. At that time, most o my family was with Cingular, and the ATT buyout by Cingular promised t be great for us, in that we'd have mobile-to-mobile with most of ou family. Then we find out early this year that Cingular is buying al but a *few* select markets, (including mine), which will instead b taken over by Alltel. Now, we get to my predicament. Since we have established that m family is on Cingular, I decided to contact them to see what m options, if any, are. The good people at Cingular agreed with m circumstances, and said I could transfer (port) my numbers to Cingular with NO penalty for ending my pact with ATT/Alltel. I proceed to th nearest Cingular store to seal the deal. At said store, they look a me incredulously, and inform me that if I do such a thing, it will cos me $700 ($175 per line) to end the earlier contract. So I tell them t call the lady at Cingular, and talk to her about it. Guess who isn't returning her calls? Now, since I can't get a Cingular rep to take my call, I decide to deal with Alltel. Guess who isn't the least bit sympathetic? Guess who is so smug, she doesn't even act like she cares about my situation? Guess who won't even give me her name/I.D., so I can note with whom I spoke with? The answer is the same, with all three questions. I haven't given up yet, but I can tell when I'm licked.  Signaturesteverino > keyes04@netscape.net Wrote: > Ugly...so far. We signed a two-year deal with ATT wireless last [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > with? The answer is the same, with all three questions. I haven't > given up yet, but I can tell when I'm licked. Thank you p.asa@gekapi.com |
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