I ported over to T-Mobile in December and AT&T fabricated the claim that I
was under contract with them. Of course this is nothing more than extortion,
holding my credit rating hostage. Hey, anyone can do this anytime so you
just can't let them get away with it. Anyhow, thought someone here would get
some use out of seeing my one good faith effort to get this straightened
out.
January 25, 2004
AT&T Wireless
P.O. Box 68055
Anaheim Hills, CA 92817-8055
I discontinued my AT&T Wireless service on December 25th of last year. I was
subsequently informed that I had terminated a contract for service early.
This is in error. I did not have a contract for service in place, and have
not for over a year.
Careful inspection of my final statement makes clear that I had no
incentives in place. I did not enjoy free weekends, evenings, or holidays,
nor did I enjoy any bonus minutes. As is well understood, customers enter
into contracts expressly to gain these incentives. Without these incentives,
it cannot be supposed that a contract was in force. My statement, dated
1/14/04, states the following:
a.. Local Plan $74.99
b.. Effective 12/13/03 Through 12/25/03
c.. Monthly service charge: $30
Clearly, the account was prorated for 12 days of service: 12 days at $2.50
per day is $30.00.
($2.50/day is arrived at by dividing $74.99 by 30 days)
The $74.99 plan offered 1000 minutes at the time. Prorated, 400 were
available. An additional %15 provided by my employer provided an additional
60 minutes. I exceeded my plan by 92 minutes and was charged (92 x $0.35)
$32.20 for them.
There were a total of 86 weekend minutes.
a.. 12/13-12/14: 63 minutes
b.. 12/20-12/21: 23 minutes
There were 78 weekday evening minutes. 8 of which occurred over two 4 minute
calls on 12/23 and which are clearly charged a dollar amount, as indicated
on my statement.
I was also charged for four calls made on 12/25, Christmas day, a holiday.
Had I received free weekends, evenings, and holidays, my 92 minute overage
would have been erased. Six calls are clearly billed as overage when they
occur during a weekday evening or holiday. It is therefore clear I did not
have free weekends, evenings, or holidays.
It's also clear that I was not enjoying any bonus minutes as they do not
appear in any way. Had I received a mere 100 minutes, for example, my 92
minute overage would have been erased.
The lack of incentives being present on my account at time of termination
precludes AT&T's claim that I was under contract at that time. The $175
cancellation fee is therefore in error. Additionally, it's clear that the
$175 was included when calculating regulatory taxes. I don't believe this is
a tax-chargeable item. I will be filing an inquiry with the FCC to verify
this, and a subsequent complaint if true.
I have been a customer of AT&T's for several years. In that time I have been
satisfied with the service and have recommended it to others. I had planned
to leave AT&T with it having been a positive business experience. If you can
straighten this out for me, I will attribute it a simple mistake. I did not
request, authorize, nor desire a contract for service with AT&T. Please
remove the $175 cancellation fee, recalculate the taxes, and send me a
corrected bill by mail. Thank you.
Scott Stephenson - 28 Jan 2004 00:32 GMT
> I ported over to T-Mobile in December and AT&T fabricated the claim that I
> was under contract with them. Of course this is nothing more than extortion,
> holding my credit rating hostage. Hey, anyone can do this anytime so you
> just can't let them get away with it. Anyhow, thought someone here would get
> some use out of seeing my one good faith effort to get this straightened
> out.
One question- have you made ANY changes to your service in the last year?
- - 28 Jan 2004 14:58 GMT
Yes, and each time they CS rep tried to sell me a contract. Each time I
reiterated "No contracts, no incentives, absolutely not." I even had my
account noted "Do not offer to sell this customer a contract". The rep
verified this notation was in place after I made the request, and, I have
the email reply from CS confirming it had been done.
In terms of oral contracting, I would have had to given express agreement to
a contract. You'll just have to take my word that I'm "legal" enough to know
I didn't do that. Good thing about orals, burden of proof lies with the
claimant!
> > I ported over to T-Mobile in December and AT&T fabricated the claim that I
> > was under contract with them. Of course this is nothing more than
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> One question- have you made ANY changes to your service in the last year?
shawnb - 28 Jan 2004 00:47 GMT
> I ported over to T-Mobile in December and AT&T fabricated the claim that I
> was under contract with them. Of course this is nothing more than extortion,
> holding my credit rating hostage. Hey, anyone can do this anytime so you
> just can't let them get away with it. Anyhow, thought someone here would get
> some use out of seeing my one good faith effort to get this straightened
> out.
Did you purchase a new (replacement) phone anytime during 2003? If you did
and did not pay "full price" then you extended your agreement.
- - 28 Jan 2004 15:00 GMT
No, I didn't. I know their little tricks about trying to get you to buy new
phones at a discount. Fact is, I knew I'd be leaving them so my old phone
was just fine for the time being.
Also, I didn't *have* an agreement, so there wasn't one to extend. I assume
you meant "enter into" an agreement.
> > I ported over to T-Mobile in December and AT&T fabricated the claim that I
> > was under contract with them. Of course this is nothing more than
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Did you purchase a new (replacement) phone anytime during 2003? If you did
> and did not pay "full price" then you extended your agreement.
HARLEYBUM - 28 Jan 2004 06:32 GMT
We have said it before (and now you get to see up close about AT&T). Their
motto goes like this " WE DONT CARE...WE DONT HAVE TO...WERE AT&T
WORTHLESS".
Be forewarned..AT&TWorthless turns your account over to a collection agency
in 30 days. They dont care how they sh.t on you, your not coming back and
it's their last shot at you..cover your a.s with them. Ask if you can record
EVERY conversation with them as your going to need that proof. AT&TWS will
tell you what you want to hear and hose you anyways....Eddie
> I ported over to T-Mobile in December and AT&T fabricated the claim that I
> was under contract with them. Of course this is nothing more than extortion,
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
> remove the $175 cancellation fee, recalculate the taxes, and send me a
> corrected bill by mail. Thank you.
- - 28 Jan 2004 15:09 GMT
This is what I mean about extortion and "anyone" can do this. If *I* had
someone's personal information and a business account, I could send someone
to collection, just out of thin air. That's why it's important not to cower
to these terrorists.
The good thing is that the credit industry is aware of this as well. I've
already gotten good signals back from my creditors that this will not be an
issue to them in the future. Personal relationships for years means more.
Bottom line is that they have very little to stand on. Oral contracts leave
he burden of proof on the claimant. This is one of the reasons they're so
aggressive on these issues. One way to overcome a weak case is to come on
strong in order to intimidate your opponent. Since I live in the Texas
capitol, I visit my state reps often. Have drinks, dinner, it's a small
tight town. I'm going to ask them to require all cellular contracts to be in
writing. I also might sue AT&T in open court and have the press there. Not
sure if their charter would force me to sue them in their state of
incorporation, but even the suit got thrown out on jurisdictional grounds
the press would still publicize the case locally.
Or, maybe, AT&T's CS rep will read my letter, find it reasonable, and clear
things up.
Bets anyone???
> We have said it before (and now you get to see up close about AT&T). Their
> motto goes like this " WE DONT CARE...WE DONT HAVE TO...WERE AT&T
[quoted text clipped - 91 lines]
> > remove the $175 cancellation fee, recalculate the taxes, and send me a
> > corrected bill by mail. Thank you.
Steven M. Scharf - 28 Jan 2004 16:03 GMT
> I ported over to T-Mobile in December and AT&T fabricated the claim that I
> was under contract with them. Of course this is nothing more than extortion,
> holding my credit rating hostage. Hey, anyone can do this anytime so you
> just can't let them get away with it. Anyhow, thought someone here would get
> some use out of seeing my one good faith effort to get this straightened
> out.
Very common apparently. The trick is to give you some sort of promotion,
i.e. MTM, N&W, etc., tell you that it won't extend your contract, then
extend your contract.
AT&T Wireless did the same thing to my relatives. They've had no new phones
in four years, and they were not under contract, or so they thought. They
actually wanted new phones, but when they were told that getting them would
extend their contract, they declined. The AT&T rep then offered them "free
N&W" since their old plan didn't have them, and assured them that this would
not extend their contract, but he wanted to give it to them since they were
such great long-time customers. Wrong. He lied. It did extend their contract
for another year. They're too wimpy to just leave and fight it out with the
credit reporting agencies. I've taken promotions from Verizon, but they were
upfront and explicitly stated that this would extend my contract.
I'd like to see written and signed contracts REQUIRED. None of this verbal
stuff, where the salespeople lie.
- - 28 Jan 2004 18:44 GMT
Thanks for the example.
Texas is bigger on protecting it's citizens that most of the other states
I've lived in. I'm sure once I present some numbers showing the number of
Texans being ripped off in this way, there'll be an interest in regulating
these contracts more closely.
In the meantime, I'm considering filing a public notice stating that no
contract with me is valid unless in written form. I know this worked under
Arizona law with respect to carrying firearms concealed w/o the concealed
license. I'll check to see how Texas law works in this respect.
If your curious, Arizona was never constitutionally granted the power to
regulate the carrying of concealed arms. This comes from the leglislature
debates and votes at the time of the state constitution's adoption. However,
this evidence can be excluded by a judge. The solution was to file a public
notice of intent to carry w/o a carry license, citing the aforementioned
debates by the legislature. Then, the evidence could not be excluded from
your defense, should the state choose to prosecute you. They never did
because it's almost certain the state's statutory prohibition on concealed
carry w/o the license would be struck down by it's own supreme court.
> > I ported over to T-Mobile in December and AT&T fabricated the claim that I
> > was under contract with them. Of course this is nothing more than
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> I'd like to see written and signed contracts REQUIRED. None of this verbal
> stuff, where the salespeople lie.