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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / April 2004Outsourcing
Anyone notice that phone warrantee problems are referred to reps outsourced to India? There's no way to tell unless you call multiple times (which I've had to do) and realize you are talking to someone with an Indian accent each time. There's even a slight delay on the line which is very common with overseas calls. They even DENY that they are outsourced. They answer the phone with "How may I provide you with excellent service today," and I received anything but excellent service. Apparently, their computers are not communicating well with the domestic computers. Without going into details of my particular problem, does anyone have an email, or snail-mail address (other than generic customer service), where I can complain. This outsourcing crap has to stop. We're losing jobs to Indians paid 2 bucks an hour, and the only way to stop it is by complaining...LOUDLY! Thanks. --Mike > Without going into details of my particular problem, does anyone have an > email, or snail-mail address (other than generic customer service), where I > can complain. This outsourcing crap has to stop. We're losing jobs to > Indians paid 2 bucks an hour, and the only way to stop it is by > complaining...LOUDLY! Yeah, I can see how important it is to keep McJobs here in the US, which customer support is, it's right up there with telemarketing. Hell, I bet customer support doesnt even offer a Living Wage nor allows for Gay-Lesbian-Transgendered-Mutant Domestic benefits. > > Without going into details of my particular problem, does anyone have an > > email, or snail-mail address (other than generic customer service), where I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > bet customer support doesnt even offer a Living Wage nor allows for > Gay-Lesbian-Transgendered-Mutant Domestic benefits. Then lets not talk about the $80K Computer programming jobs going to India and China. Robert M. wrote: >>>Without going into details of my particular problem, does anyone have an >>>email, or snail-mail address (other than generic customer service), where I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Then lets not talk about the $80K Computer programming jobs going to > India and China. Got an exact number of $80K computer jobs going overseas? Or is it just something you pulled out of your a.s to make a contrived rebuttal? > Robert M. wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Got an exact number of $80K computer jobs going overseas? Or is it just > something you pulled out of your a.s to make a contrived rebuttal? Does 4 million register with you?: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/jan-june04/friedman_03-09.html IBM alone in one such move, is sending 4,730 such prime jobs overseas http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2003/12/15/daily14.html >>Got an exact number of $80K computer jobs going overseas? Or is it just >>something you pulled out of your a.s to make a contrived rebuttal? Being in denial doesn't help...you may be next. --Mike > Robert M. wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Got an exact number of $80K computer jobs going overseas? Or is it just > something you pulled out of your a.s to make a contrived rebuttal? >>>Got an exact number of $80K computer jobs going overseas? Or is it just >>>something you pulled out of your a.s to make a contrived rebuttal? > > Being in denial doesn't help...you may be next. Guess you have no numbers either. > --Mike > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >>Got an exact number of $80K computer jobs going overseas? Or is it just >>something you pulled out of your a.s to make a contrived rebuttal? > >>>Got an exact number of $80K computer jobs going overseas? Or is it just > >>>something you pulled out of your a.s to make a contrived rebuttal? > > > > Being in denial doesn't help...you may be next. > > Guess you have no numbers either. How about what I already posted: Does 4 million register with you?: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/jan-june04/friedman_03-09.html IBM alone in one such move, is sending 4,730 such prime jobs overseas http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2003/12/15/daily14.html Robert M. wrote: >>>>>Got an exact number of $80K computer jobs going overseas? Or is it just >>>>>something you pulled out of your a.s to make a contrived rebuttal? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > How about what I already posted: What about it dipshit? > Does 4 million register with you?: > > http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/jan-june04/friedman_03-09.html Hmmm, no mention of 4,000,000 nor $80K salaries...let's go to the next "proof" shall we? > IBM alone in one such move, is sending 4,730 such prime jobs overseas > > http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2003/12/15/daily14.html whao! old news, in fact, IBM will add 4500 net jobs in the US in 2004: http://www.ciol.com/content/news/2004/104011901.asp "Armonk, New York-based International Business Machines Corp., which has faced criticism for its plans to shift some U.S. workers to cheaper locations such as India and China, will add about 4,500 net jobs in the United States this year, according to Randy MacDonald, IBM's senior vice president for human resources." Next! > whao! old news, in fact, IBM will add 4500 net jobs in the US in 2004: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > United States this year, according to Randy MacDonald, IBM's senior vice > president for human resources." Well we know the jobs going are High paid programming jobs. You quote fails to specify (probably for good reason) what kind of jobs are being filled. Night shift maintenance and guards for the empty factories? Robert M. wrote: >>whao! old news, in fact, IBM will add 4500 net jobs in the US in 2004: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > fails to specify (probably for good reason) what kind of jobs are being > filled. Night shift maintenance and guards for the empty factories? IBM doesnt higher night shift maintenance works or gaurds, they contract them out. So there goes your chances for becoming an IBM'r. Good, you're an expert on everything...you had me worried there for a bit. --Mike > Robert M. wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > IBM doesnt higher night shift maintenance works or gaurds, they contract > them out. So there goes your chances for becoming an IBM'r. Used to work for IBM fwiw. So there. > Good, you're an expert on everything...you had me worried there for a bit. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>IBM doesnt higher night shift maintenance works or gaurds, they contract >>them out. So there goes your chances for becoming an IBM'r. So did my brother, so I guess he's an expert on the entire corporation as well....I'll ask him if he is. I take it back, I suppose *you* were one of those contract workers that swept the floors during the graveyard shift. In that case you *are* an expert on the subject. How come they let ya go? Didn't sweep out the corners well enough? Maybe you can move to India and sweep the floors of the control centers that are taking American jobs? Just a thought. --Mike > Used to work for IBM fwiw. So there. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >>>IBM doesnt higher night shift maintenance works or gaurds, they contract >>>them out. So there goes your chances for becoming an IBM'r. > So did my brother, so I guess he's an expert on the entire corporation as > well....I'll ask him if he is. > > I take it back, I suppose *you* were one of those contract workers that > swept the floors during the graveyard shift. You suppose wrong. > In that case you *are* an > expert on the subject. Too bad it's not the case. > How come they let ya go? Went to work for someone else for more money. > Didn't sweep out the corners > well enough? Not applicable in my case, must be for yours. > Maybe you can move to India and sweep the floors of the control > centers that are taking American jobs? Just a thought. Just a dumbass thought actually. You're full of them. > --Mike > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >>>>IBM doesnt higher night shift maintenance works or gaurds, they contract >>>>them out. So there goes your chances for becoming an IBM'r. >>Just a dumbass thought actually. You're full of them.<< Once again, the DigitalDeude does not let me down!!! Great name by the way...did your parents not like you? You don't even know me, and you're an expert on me too!! Did you work for me as well?? No, you didn't because I have hiring standards, and apparently IBM does not. Damn...usenet is great! --Mike >> So did my brother, so I guess he's an expert on the entire corporation as >> well....I'll ask him if he is. [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >>>>>IBM doesnt higher night shift maintenance works or gaurds, they >>>>>contract them out. So there goes your chances for becoming an IBM'r. >>>Just a dumbass thought actually. You're full of them.<< > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You don't even know me, and you're an expert on me too!! Did you work for me > as well?? You couldn't afford me. Sorry Mikey. Maybe you should outsource your trailer park sewer cleaning service company. > >>>Just a dumbass thought actually. You're full of them.<< > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You couldn't afford me. Sorry Mikey. Maybe you should outsource your > trailer park sewer cleaning service company Is that what you do? Sewer work? Figures. Robert M. wrote: >>>>>Just a dumbass thought actually. You're full of them.<< >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Is that what you do? Sewer work? Figures. What a lameass comeback. Pathetic really. Try to come up with something better M Bob. > Try to come up with something > better M Bob. I never saw your comeback to the URLs I posted. You asked for numbers. I documented 4 million. hmm from the url it says "We're talking about 4 million jobs that will be outsourced to India probably over the next ten years." thats 100,000 a year.. If they can find people that work for less and get the job done why should they not take advantage of it.. ?? > > Try to come up with something > > better M Bob. > > I never saw your comeback to the URLs I posted. You asked for numbers. I > documented 4 million. Robert M. wrote: >> Try to come up with something >>better M Bob. > > I never saw your comeback to the URLs I posted. You asked for numbers. I > documented 4 million. 4 million $80K jobs a year, hardly. I asked: "Got an exact number of $80K computer jobs going overseas? Or is it just something you pulled out of your a.s to make a contrived rebuttal?" Your lame a.s response: "Does 4 million register with you?: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/jan-june04/friedman_03-09.html" 4 million is there, but 4 million what? damn sure aint 4 million $80K a year jobs. Lets see what your Indian Guru says: "We're talking about 4 million jobs that will be outsourced to India probably over the next ten years. " "probably"?? LOL, over 10 years even, maybe, possibly, but then again probably not. Now lets examine what other experts think: http://www.cwalocal4250.org/outsourcing/binarydata/2003043002320100.pdf hmmm, only 472,632 Information Technology jobs TOTAL by 2015. You're not looking so good M Bob. Some more interesting tid bits, for every 100 jobs outsourced, only 20 real jobs are lost in the US. In fact, most of the outsourced jobs are really just workers that would have worked in the US under the H1B visa program but now since the H1B visa numbers are reduced, they're hired to work in India instead, from where they come from. Case in point: http://www.ncpa.org/edo/bb/2003/bb-20031231.htm Back to your 4 million bullshit figure, here's one that says 2 million, over 10 years, 50% of your "proof" http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1224-07.htm Point made. You lose. Nice try. See ya. >>You couldn't afford me. Sorry Mikey. Maybe you should outsource your trailer park sewer cleaning service company.<< Ouch that hurts. You are way to witty for me, so I'm bailing out on you while I still have some self esteem left. Now...go finish your homework. --Mike >>>>Just a dumbass thought actually. You're full of them.<< >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You couldn't afford me. Sorry Mikey. Maybe you should outsource your > trailer park sewer cleaning service company. >>>You couldn't afford me. Sorry Mikey. Maybe you should outsource your > > trailer park sewer cleaning service company.<< > > Ouch that hurts. You are way to witty for me, so I'm bailing out on you > while I still have some self esteem left. Good, never cared for you anyhow. Let the door hit you on the way out. > So did my brother, so I guess he's an expert on the entire corporation as > well....I'll ask him if he is. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > well enough? Maybe you can move to India and sweep the floors of the control > centers that are taking American jobs? Just a thought. I'm finding this real interesting- you act like this is the first time companies have taken good paying jobs overseas. A clue- its not the first, and the economy and people of this country have survived just fine. As a matter of fact, the last wave of this is what created the job force for all of the technology jobs that are going now. History repeats itself. I hope you have that solid optimistic attitude if it hits you personally. Something tells me you'll be singing a different tune if it does. --Mike >> So did my brother, so I guess he's an expert on the entire corporation as >> well....I'll ask him if he is. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > all > of the technology jobs that are going now. History repeats itself. > I hope you have that solid optimistic attitude if it hits you personally. Well, I guess I would have the attitude I have now, because it has already hit me personally (you see, we're not all twenty-something in this group). In fact, it was the best thing to ever happen to me and my father (who was also affected at the time). My father was able to slightly alter his work product after doing the same thing for thirty years, and doubled his salary in the twilight of his career with a different company that was looking for someone of his experience. In my case, I got the opportunity to do many things that I would have never thought possible- I've owned my own business, done some teaching and now work at a Fortune 200 company, where my salary has more than doubled in the last four years. And I'm far from the only one of my generation to be able to tell that kind of story. > Something tells me you'll be singing a different tune if it does. Something tells me that you are wrong. Generally, the people that bitch the loudest about this are those that know how to do nothing else but the particular task that they now do. I guess there's something to be said about not over-specializing in a particualr field. >>Generally, the people that bitch the loudest about this are those that know how to do nothing else but the particular task that they now do. I guess there's something to be said about not over-specializing in a particualr field.<< That's about the most ridiculous statement I've heard. Wake up, MOST people are trained for a particular task. Why don't you have this argument with the 4 engineers from my wife's company that are unemployed because of outsourcing. Ask them how GOOD it is for them. They will be able to carry on this argument much better than I. I'm glad it worked out for your dad. MOST aren't that lucky. --Mike >> I hope you have that solid optimistic attitude if it hits you personally. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > particular task that they now do. I guess there's something to be said > about not over-specializing in a particualr field. > That's about the most ridiculous statement I've heard. Wake up, MOST people > are trained for a particular task. I think your statement should read, "MOST people allow themselves to be trained for a particular task." A job is not an entitlement, and if someone rests on a false sense of security that a single set of job skills is all that is needed to get through life, they aren't doing themselves any favors. > Why don't you have this argument with the > 4 engineers from my wife's company that are unemployed because of > outsourcing. Ask them how GOOD it is for them. They will be able to carry on > this argument much better than I. And what if these 4 engineers had lost their jobs because of an economic downturn at the company? Would they be any better off in finding a new job with their current skillsets? > I'm glad it worked out for your dad. MOST > aren't that lucky. Actually, most are that lucky. History proves it. >>And what if these 4 engineers had lost their jobs because of an economic downturn at the company? Would they be any better off in finding a new job with their current skillsets?<< That would mean that the whole department would be gone. This isn't about simply being laid off, it's about *why* you're laid off. You see, these 4 engineers were the only developers for a particular software product. Without them, there is no product, and in a bad economy laying them off is shooting yourself in the corporate head. I'm not saying, they won't or can't find jobs...never did. But they shouldn't have to be looking. The corporation sold out for a 5 for 1 deal in Russia, corporate greed pure and simple, and it's not right. My wife is in sales in that department, and she very well could be next. She's had resumes out, and a headhunter looking for her for almost a year, and nothing worthwhile has come up. It's not as easy as you make it out to be. Like I said, when it happens to *YOU*, not your dad, come back and tell me how wonderful outsourcing is. --Mike >> That's about the most ridiculous statement I've heard. Wake up, MOST > people [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Actually, most are that lucky. History proves it. > >>And what if these 4 engineers had lost their jobs because of an economic > downturn at the company? Would they be any better off in finding a new job [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Like I said, when it happens to *YOU*, not your dad, come back and tell me > how wonderful outsourcing is. You missed that part- I've already gone through it- look back a few posts. >I think your statement should read, "MOST people allow themselves to be >trained for a particular task." A job is not an entitlement, and if someone >rests on a false sense of security that a single set of job skills is all >that is needed to get through life, they aren't doing themselves any favors. I agree 100%. The WORST thing you can do is rely on skills that technology will outdate. I am lucky in that I have only ever been laid off ONCE- from my very first job in a glass factory (Safelite) after 2 years of employment there. I was out of work for 3 months and I swore then it would never happen again and it hasn't. I first went and got my Class A CDL and drove a truck at night delivering paper rolls to newpaper print plants. In the day I went to technical school and when I graduated, I got a job in radio and TV and worked there for many years- CBS being the last place I worked. But I saw the writing on the wall about 8 years ago when the FCC lifted ownership limits and I knew that once 5 or 6 stations consolidated under one roof, they would not need 5 or 6 Chief Engineers so I got out of that business and into telecom where I am today. I also picked up my BA and a year of law school. Will I ever be out of work? I hope not but even after all these years, I still renew my class A Hazmat CDL every 4 years. Unemployment sucks! >That's about the most ridiculous statement I've heard. Wake up, MOST people >are trained for a particular task. Why don't you have this argument with the >4 engineers from my wife's company that are unemployed because of >outsourcing. Ask them how GOOD it is for them. They will be able to You know we might as well quit bitching about this outsourcing. It is here to stay and will probably get bigger as technology gets better. You just have to get up and dust yourself off and move on to other ventures. You know millions of manufacturing jobs were outsourced to Mexico in the 1980s and I didn't hear IT professionals and engineers bitching then when they had their snug jobs and BMWs. > Used to work for IBM fwiw. So there. Sorry you got fired. Robert M. wrote: >>Used to work for IBM fwiw. So there. > > Sorry you got fired. Prove it. > Robert M. wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Prove it. Google found it. rmarkoff@msn.com (Robert M.) wrote: <<Google found it. >> And where is the URL for that, proving he was fired? And why do you feel the need to delve into someone's personal life like that? Not very Christian of you. > rmarkoff@msn.com (Robert M.) wrote: > <<Google found it. >> > > And where is the URL for that, proving he was fired? And why do you > feel the need to delve into someone's personal life like that? Not very > Christian of you. He can't prove sh.t. He lost the debate so now he's resorting to ad hominum attacks, so typical. You know you can always train for another profession. If you were smart enough to learn IT, programming and such, you are certainly able to learn to do something else. I have a friend who was a tech at Motorola in Shaumburg Illinois and they laid off him and thousands of others. Now he removes asbestos from buildings and makes MORE money than he did at Motorola! Robert M. wrote: >>Robert M. wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Google found it. So post the URL from Google and prove it. > Robert M. wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > IBM doesnt higher night shift maintenance works or gaurds, they contract > them out. So there goes your chances for becoming an IBM'r. Why would I want to do what you do? Robert M. wrote: >>Robert M. wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Why would I want to do what you do? You want to but you cant, you aint got the skills, sorry. It still beats talking to some white trash after holding for 40 minutes. Especially when they talk to customers as if we owe them something. This is what I don't get about morons - you'd rather pay for terrible service because it comes from an american mouth than average service from elsewhere. sb > Anyone notice that phone warrantee problems are referred to reps outsourced > to India? There's no way to tell unless you call multiple times (which I've [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > --Mike As long as *you* are not on the other end of the line, I'm sure we'll all be fine. I quite frankly don't care *WHAT* color or ethnicity they are, as long as they are in the USA helping customers from the USA, and keeping jobs here! A whole department from where my wife works was recently laid off because of this outsourcing crap. We're wondering when it's her turn, so it's personal for me. Someone called it a McJob??? Those engineers made close to 100k a year, as does my wife. I'll flip burgers any day for that kind of money. These are hardly McJobs...it's corporate greed pure and simple. As far as service...I'll take anyone, anyday that can think for themselves instead of reading from a friggin script, and keeping you on hold forever because the computers 5000 miles from each other are having difficulty communicating. Nice name by the way. --Mike > It still beats talking to some white trash after holding for 40 > minutes. Especially when they talk to customers as if we owe them [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> >> --Mike > As long as *you* are not on the other end of the line, I'm sure we'll all be > fine. I quite frankly don't care *WHAT* color or ethnicity they are, as long [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > --Mike The US is a service based economy. Now with services going over seas, what are we?! I am 22 years old, going to college, and have no idea what to do! I am trying to choose my major in terms of interest, Job demand with said degree, and what likelihood of said job being taken over seas. With cozy little studio apartments starting at $800 a month here in Southern California, Flipping burgers will not make the grade. I WAS majoring in computer science, but after looking at the market, the movie Office Space came to mind. What can be done with a Computer science/Economics double major get me? I just want a profession that will not be replaced by robots, contractors, or outsourcing. Trey, I'm with you 100%. The burger flipping jobs stay here (as they have to), and decent paying jobs are transferred elsewhere...it aint right. If left unchecked the *ONLY* jobs left here will be burger flipping and field help. My advice to you (if things continue down this path) is to consider learning a trade as a back-up. It's kind of hard to outsource a carpenter or electrician. I was in the same boat as you 20 years ago, and opted for the trade in which I was trained (thru high school and college), when I graduated. The education was invaluable (albeit completely unrelated) in building a successful General Contracting business. --Mike >> As long as *you* are not on the other end of the line, I'm sure we'll all > be [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > or > outsourcing. Yeah, Great Idea Mike!! Trey - become a carpenter or gardner or whatever and go out and be an a.shole to all your customers!! That way we'll just import workers to do what you do and miss the fuckall attitude. sb > Trey, > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > or > > outsourcing. You are brilliant! That's my problem...I wondered why my business was so successful! I'm not an a.shole to my customers, and don't have that "fuckall" attitude.Thanks for setting me straight. I'll try it out on Monday, and let ya know how I make out. --Mike > Yeah, Great Idea Mike!! Trey - become a carpenter or gardner or > whatever and go out and be an a.shole to all your customers!! That [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] >> > or >> > outsourcing. > The burger flipping jobs stay here (as they have to), and > > decent paying jobs are transferred elsewhere Why? flip, freeze, ship. Microwave back in the states. Listen a very large portion of AT&TWS's IT is performed by employees from South Asian Outsourcing companies. > Listen a very large portion of AT&TWS's IT is performed by employees > from South Asian Outsourcing > companies. Does that explain all the problems last fall with Convergys? |
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