 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion Groups General General TopicsGSMBluetoothProviders AlltelATT WirelessCingularFidoNextelSprint PCST-MobileVerizonManufacturers EricssonNokiaMotorolaCountry Specific Australian GroupUK GroupRelated Topics PocketPCPalmMore Topics ... |
Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / August 2004GAIT info
Does attws have a place on their website that is devoted or gives info on the multiband plans and gait phones that work? I'm interested in something with that has the gsm and tdma. Also, I'm in MN and cingular doesn't have service here, when will they start showing availability, is it once they completely take over att's area? Capt. i read in a previous message that GAIT is only available to be seen by folks with a foundation account. > Does attws have a place on their website that is devoted or gives info on > the multiband plans and gait phones that work? I'm interested in something [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Capt. why the hell would they do that? I only found one and that was after I did the chat with rep deal. A shitty looking siemens one, and cingular only has a sony ericsson one. I imagine if more phones were developed that a tdma or gsm provider would get a lot of customers. Capt. > i read in a previous message that GAIT is only available to be seen by folks > with a foundation account. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > > Capt. The "shitty looking siemens one" is *not* GAIT, just multi-standard (GSM, TDMA), and lacking AMPS. You can easily get an unlocked GAIT phone on eBay, either Nokia or Ericsson. GAIT was only a short term fix, and never generated much market appeal, so I don't think there will be any more GAIT handsets released. >why the hell would they do that? I only found one and that was after I did >the chat with rep deal. A shitty looking siemens one, and cingular only has [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> > >> > Capt.  SignatureBest regards, John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/ > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > GAIT was only a short term fix, and never generated much market appeal, so > I don't think there will be any more GAIT handsets released. In my opinion, this was a colossal blunder by ATT. GAIT was a perfect opportunity for them to migrate their substantial TDMA customer base to GSM without the customers noticing any degradation in coverage, etc. The average customer does not know or care if they are on TDMA, GSM or AMPS to first order, and had they offered incentives to all their TDMA customers to switch to a GAIT plan, I bet most of them would have not noticed any difference in coverage. This could have enabled ATT to gradually increase their GSM footprint especially in rural areas and then shut off the TDMA towers and nobody would have cared. I know a lot of people, especially in Oregon where the TDMA footprint is very good and GSM is poor in comparison, to get really frustrated when they switched to GSM, only to find that their fancy phones may have polyphonic ringtones but didn't work in half the places their TDMA phones did. Many of them are with other carriers now. A golden opportunity missed by ATT..... >> GAIT was only a short term fix, and never generated much market appeal, so >> I don't think there will be any more GAIT handsets released. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >to GSM without the customers noticing any degradation in coverage, >etc. It's not that simple: (1) ATTWS (and Cingular) can't afford to give away millions of free phones to all their customers, and most customers don't want to buy them. (2) There's not enough volume to justify a good selection of competitive GAIT phones, so many customers won't be satisfied in any event. (3) The carriers need to get substantial numbers of customers off TDMA to be able to shift spectrum to GSM. All in all, GAIT is only a poor bandaid from the carrier point of view, which is why it's come and pretty much gone, almost unnoticed. >The average customer does not know or care if they are on TDMA, >GSM or AMPS to first order, and had they offered incentives to all >their TDMA customers to switch to a GAIT plan, I bet most of them >would have not noticed any difference in coverage. See above -- fiscal suicide. >This could have >enabled ATT to gradually increase their GSM footprint especially in >rural areas and then shut off the TDMA towers and nobody would have >cared. See above -- it has to get lots of subscribers off TDMA in order to migrate spectrum to GSM. >I know a lot of people, especially in Oregon where the TDMA footprint >is very good and GSM is poor in comparison, to get really frustrated >when they switched to GSM, only to find that their fancy phones may >have polyphonic ringtones but didn't work in half the places their >TDMA phones did. Many of them are with other carriers now. True, but the loss was surprisingly small in percentage terms. >A golden opportunity missed by ATT..... Not really. There's just no easy way to migrate a huge customer base from one technology to another. All GAIT did was delay the inevitable. As in so many other things, cold turkey is a bit of a shock in the short term, but better in the long term. SignatureBest regards, John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/ >I imagine if more phones were developed that a tdma or > gsm provider would get a lot of customers. Perhaps the carriers don't really want to see people using TDMA. AT&T has been pushing GSM really hard. They will not, for example, offer early nights & weekends on TDMA plans anymore. They make it near impossible for customers unsatisfied with GSM to return to their old TDMA plans--especially if they were grandfathered. They still offer TDMA to new customers, but they have to ask for it. Last time I was in an ATTWS store, no TDMA phones were even on display. On their website, they had only two phones for TDMA, last time I looked. They save money on GSM customers, because their calls are not handed off to analog carriers if there is no GSM service--the phone just reports "No Service." The typical customer that "upgrades" to GSM has no idea that there have been so many complaints about poor service in so many places across America. If you've seen ATTWS' Olympic ads on TV, they tout their superior signal strength on GSM. The non-ATTWS customer can't call out, because he has no signal, while the ATTWS customer has a full five bars on his phone! Yeah, right! A phone is no good if the call does not go through, to paraphrase the old Bell Atlantic Mobile ads. I don't give a hoot about data transmission or nice colored LCD screens--I just want to make and receive calls. For now, TDMA is still the more reliable transmission system--and it comes with multi-network capability so calls can be handed off (or initiated) on analog networks when there is no digital service available. I am quite happy with TDMA, and ATTWS told me that it would remain available for another 5-10 years. By that time, virtually every carrier will have built-out its network, or will have plugged any holes with roaming agreements. >They save money on GSM customers, because their calls are not handed off to >analog carriers if there is no GSM service--the phone just reports "No >Service." Not really, because ATTWS is still an AMPS (analog) carrier. >The typical customer that "upgrades" to GSM has no idea that there have been >so many complaints about poor service in so many places across America. How many is that? I've been pretty happy with my GSM coverage. >... For now, >TDMA is still the more reliable transmission system-- GSM is effectively an improved TDMA system, and is thus more reliable. >and it comes with >multi-network capability so calls can be handed off (or initiated) on analog >networks when there is no digital service available. I am quite happy with >TDMA, and ATTWS told me that it would remain available for another 5-10 >years. Don't count on that -- ATTWS won't be in charge, since Cingular is set to take over, and Cingular may well phase it out sooner. SignatureBest regards, John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/ >why the hell would they do that? I only found one and that was after I did >the chat with rep deal. A shitty looking siemens one, and cingular only has >a sony ericsson one. I imagine if more phones were developed that a tdma or >gsm provider would get a lot of customers. You like to play Jeopardy, eh? The reason there are very few GAIT models is that GAIT is supposed to be only *transitional* until the GSM systems have the same coverage as the past analog and TDMA systems. It's too bad that you don't like the choice, but that's all there is. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ok, I understand all of that. So where does this leave WCDMA? I tried to understand some of the stuff on google but damn there is a lot of info around there. Anyone have info. Capt. > >why the hell would they do that? I only found one and that was after I did > >the chat with rep deal. A shitty looking siemens one, and cingular only has [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >Ok, I understand all of that. So where does this leave WCDMA? I tried to >understand some of the stuff on google but damn there is a lot of info >around there. Anyone have info. WCDMA = UMTS, which has nothing to do with GAIT, and takes special phones, which are just becoming available. ATTWS has now deployed UMTS in a few greater metro areas -- see the ATTWS website for more info. SignatureBest regards, John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/ >Ok, I understand all of that. So where does this leave WCDMA? CDMA/WCDMA is where the carriers should have started their digital service. Many carriers made the mistake however of going with TDMA because it was available a bit earlier than CDMA (the CDMA testing wasn't quite completed when TDMA was initiated). The carrier management and engineering staff couldn't just go to their boards and admit that they had made a multi-billion $ mistake so they concocted an "upgrade path" by moving to GSM and at the same time planning to move to WCDMA. And of course the upgrade path will cost billions more effectivly keeping the cellular companies in or close to the red for many years to come. But eventually we will all be CDMA based! -- John S. e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net >>Ok, I understand all of that. So where does this leave WCDMA? > >CDMA/WCDMA is where the carriers should have started their digital service. CDMA and WCDMA are quite different. While both use a CDMA-type air interface, they are incompatible, and the latter is based on GSM infrastructure. >Many carriers made the mistake however of going with TDMA because it was >available a bit earlier than CDMA (the CDMA testing wasn't quite completed when >TDMA was initiated). TDMA was simply a prudent choice -- it was available and proven well before CDMA, had the advantage of not being controlled by a single entity, and the economy of scale to result in lower cost and richer handset features. TDMA has matured well in practice -- GSM is based on TDMA, and is the dominant cellular technology around the world, including here in the USA. >The carrier management and engineering staff couldn't just go to their boards >and admit that they had made a multi-billion $ mistake so they concocted an >"upgrade path" by moving to GSM and at the same time planning to move to WCDMA. That's of course absurd -- based on thorough technical business and technical analysis, ATTWS and Cingular both concluded that GSM was the best upgrade path from TDMA, as has been well documented. A direct leap to any sort of CDMA technology would have been far more costly and risky. >And of course the upgrade path will cost billions more effectivly keeping the >cellular companies in or close to the red for many years to come. It's by no means clear that Cingular will spend much on WCDMA in the foreseeable future, since GSM+EDGE seems more than enough to satisfy most of the real market demand. (The ATTWS deployment of WCDMA/UMTS was made to satisfy its obligations to DoCoMo.) >But eventually we will all be CDMA based! As noted above, the differences far outweigh the similarities. In addition, WCDMA is designed to coexist with and complement existing TDMA networks, which are expected to continue. Yet another official 3G technology variation is TD-SCDMA, which combines an advanced TDMA/TDD system with an adaptive CDMA component. Thus TDMA not only dominates now, but is sure to have an important role for many years to come. SignatureBest regards, John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/ So does anyone here think that GSM will take over everything and be as widespread as in Europe. It seems that more carriers are going GSM, with the exception of Verizon and Sprint. Capt. > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.attws - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > Thus TDMA not only dominates now, but is sure to have an important role for > many years to come. >So does anyone here think that GSM will take over everything and be as >widespread as in Europe. It seems that more carriers are going GSM, with the >exception of Verizon and Sprint. It really doesn't matter -- GSM and CDMA both work well -- go with what works best for you in the areas you care about. Technology debates / disputes / wars are just plain silly. SignatureBest regards, John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/ >So does anyone here think that GSM will take over everything and be as >widespread as in Europe. It seems that more carriers are going GSM, with the >exception of Verizon and Sprint. Yes and no. It's a bit more complicated with the introduction of WCDMA. AT&T is already introducing it in several cities, in the rest of the world they are going to WCDMA. Although carriers are soon going to be either CDMA or GSM (world wide by the way) they are all (GSM too) moving to WCDMA. So, no is really the proper answer. -- John S. e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net >>So does anyone here think that GSM will take over everything and be as >>widespread as in Europe. It seems that more carriers are going GSM, with the >>exception of Verizon and Sprint. > >Yes and no. It's a bit more complicated with the introduction of WCDMA. AT&T is >already introducing it in several cities, Four major metro areas. >in the rest of the world they are >going to WCDMA. Slowly, and as a complement to GSM, which will continue. >Although carriers are soon going to be either CDMA or GSM (world wide by the >way) they are all (GSM too) moving to WCDMA. They are adding (not moving to) WCDMA. There is also TD-SCDMA, which combines an advanced TDMA/TDD system with an adaptive CDMA component. SignatureBest regards, John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/ >Four major metro areas. 5 in the USA actually. -- John S. e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net >>Four major metro areas. > >5 in the USA actually. Still in that alternate universe I see. :) <http://www.attwireless.com/umts/>: <http://www.attwireless.com/umts/coverage.html>: Currently available in the greater metro areas of [1] Seattle, [2] San Francisco, [3] Phoenix, and [4] Detroit. SignatureBest regards, John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/ >So does anyone here think that GSM will take over everything and be as >widespread as in Europe. It seems that more carriers are going GSM, with the >exception of Verizon and Sprint. It depends on what you mean by "take over." Since Verizon and Sprint cover a large chunk of the US it's unlikely that we'll ever see ubiquitous coverage with GSM like you do in Europe if only because of the scope of coverage necessary to cover the US. Even now there is not coverage everywhere even with analog AMPS. Any country where there are large expanses of sparsely populated area you're unlikely to have anything close to universal coverage. Look at coverage maps in other large countries such as Russia or Australia and you won't see anything near approaching ubiquitous coverage. It'll never happen in Canada either. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >I imagine if more phones were developed that a tdma or >gsm provider would get a lot of customers. On the other hand, they want the customers on their GSM network and NOT their TDMA network. By not offering GAIT phones, they move people to GSM quicker. Although, they still offer several TDMA/Analog phones too you know! You don't HAVE to go to GSM........... YET! -- John S. e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2010 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.