Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / December 2007
Fox Movie Rentals Coming to iPhone in 2008!
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4phun - 27 Dec 2007 03:57 GMT Apple and Fox just sealed a deal to rent movies via iTunes for your iPod or iPhone. The result...
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071226/apple_mover.html
AP Apple Trades at $200 for First Time Wednesday December 26, 6:33 pm ET By Rachel Metz, AP Business Writer Apple Shares Trade at $200 for 1st Time, Bolstered by Investor Confidence in IPod Maker
NEW YORK (AP) -- Shares of Apple Inc. hit the $200 mark for the first time Wednesday, as investor confidence in the company continued rising near the end of what has been a strong year for the iPod and computer maker.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/external/cbsm/SIG=12bcuf54h/*http://www.marketwat ch.com/news/story/apple-fox-seal-deal-rent/story.aspx?guid=%7B9CA8CAA7%2DF69E%2D 4E8E%2DBE68%2D3FC74CFAFB6C%7D&siteid=yhoof
http://biz.yahoo.com/paidcontent/071226/1_318178_id.html?.v=1
CozmicDebris - 27 Dec 2007 04:04 GMT > Apple and Fox just sealed a deal to rent movies via iTunes for your > iPod or iPhone. The result... [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > http://biz.yahoo.com/paidcontent/071226/1_318178_id.html?.v=1 Who'd pay money to watch a movie on that crappy little screen? Only an iDiot.
4phun - 27 Dec 2007 04:24 GMT > > Apple and Fox just sealed a deal to rent movies via iTunes for your > > iPod or iPhone. The result... [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Who'd pay money to watch a movie on that crappy little screen? Only an > iDiot. Lets see Al Gore, President Clinton, the Queen of England to name a few. I'm sure millions around the world would be interested in your assessment of them. It has been reported that they all have iPhones and love them. BTW the rental movies can be played on a regular HDTV and a PC to boot.
CozmicDebris - 27 Dec 2007 05:01 GMT >> 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote >> innews:a6473d11-a34c-4d8b-832c-73cd1ea14524@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.c [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Lets see Al Gore, President Clinton, the Queen of England to name a > few. Please show me a quote where any one of the three of them said they want movie downloads on their iPhone. After all, you say that all three of them want it.
I rest my case.
> I'm sure millions around the world would be interested in your > assessment of them. Wow- the power!
> It has been reported that they all have iPhones > and love them. Then my iDiot label would fit.
> BTW the rental movies can be played on a regular HDTV > and a PC to boot. Then it has no value. What an overhyped pice of crap service.
Larry - 27 Dec 2007 18:44 GMT CozmicDebris <isheforreal> wrote in news:Xns9A12D6B4A38C7isheforreal@ 216.196.97.136:
> Who'd pay money to watch a movie on that crappy little screen? Only an > iDiot. Same idiot that paid so much for it in the first place....(c;
Larry
 Signature I worked hard under Social Security since I was 12. My SS retirement check is one oz of gold per month. Can we afford to start any more wars for corporations?
Larry - 27 Dec 2007 18:44 GMT 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:a6473d11-a34c-4d8b-832c- 73cd1ea14524@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> Apple and Fox just sealed a deal to rent movies via iTunes for your > iPod or iPhone. The result... WOW! ....And I was just loading up 8 more DivX movies onto the Linux tablet's 8GB SD card to take with me, today!
I'm impressed!
How in hell are they gonna play movies over EDGE's dialup speed?? Will it have sound, too, or just 4 frames per minute?
Maybe they're not gonna stream it. It shouldn't take over a month to download a movie on EDGE....(c;
Larry
 Signature I worked hard under Social Security since I was 12. My SS retirement check is one oz of gold per month. Can we afford to start any more wars for bankers and corporations?
Todd Allcock - 27 Dec 2007 21:19 GMT > How in hell are they gonna play movies over EDGE's dialup speed?? They won't- like all DRM'd iPhone media, I assume it'll be purchased through iTunes and sideloaded from a computer or via WiFi.
> Will it have sound, too, or just 4 frames per minute? The iPhone and it's 600MHz processor renders media rather well- much better than my WinMo phone's paltry 200MHz OMAP processor, which tends to choke on video files that are encoded at 300kbps or higher. The iPhone can do 30fps/500kbps with it's virtual hands tied behind it's virtual back. Excellent quality for a 4" display. I encode content for my phone at 15fps/220kbps (it can handle a little more, but I use this setting for compatibility with my older WinCE devices, and, frankly, given the image lag of a typical phone LCD screen, 15fps is sufficient.)
There's a great little free program called PocketDivx encoder that has excellent preset encoding profiles for a variety of portables- PPCs, Palms, Archos PMPs, etc., encodes rather quickly, and supports batch encoding. I fire it up before every long airplane ride, encode a bunch of kidvids, load them on my old PocketPCs and keep three kids happy for an entire flight. I'll dump a few episodes of the BBC's "Coupling" or "Doctor Who," and/or a good movie like "Hopscotch" with Walter Matthau on my phone and even Dad has a good flight!
4phun - 27 Dec 2007 23:31 GMT > > How in hell are they gonna play movies over EDGE's dialup speed?? > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > good movie like "Hopscotch" with Walter Matthau on my phone and even Dad > has a good flight! The Financial Times is reporting that Apple and Twentieth Century Fox have reached a deal to provide movie rentals on the iTunes Store, likely to be announced at Macworld. While Disney sells a full line of films on iTunes and other studios provide catalog titles, this is the first rental arrangement to date. Movies are expected to be downloadable for a limited-play window. Equally important, the agreement is expected to include onboarding of iPod-compatible video files with Fox DVDs, so that iPod users can load and go when the DVD is purchased (rather than ripping the DVD into MP4 video).
Larry - 28 Dec 2007 00:30 GMT >> How in hell are they gonna play movies over EDGE's dialup speed?? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The iPhone and it's 600MHz processor renders media rather well- much > better than my WinMo phone's paltry 200MHz OMAP processor, which tends
> to choke on video files that are encoded at 300kbps or higher. The
> iPhone can do 30fps/500kbps with it's virtual hands tied behind it's
> virtual back. Excellent quality for a 4" display. I encode content
> for my phone at 15fps/220kbps (it can handle a little more, but I use
> this setting for compatibility with my older WinCE devices, and,
> frankly, given the image lag of a typical phone LCD screen, 15fps is
> sufficient.) > > There's a great little free program called PocketDivx encoder that has > excellent preset encoding profiles for a variety of portables- PPCs, > Palms, Archos PMPs, etc., encodes rather quickly, and supports batch
> encoding. I fire it up before every long airplane ride, encode a
> bunch of kidvids, load them on my old PocketPCs and keep three kids
> happy for an entire flight. I'll dump a few episodes of the BBC's
> "Coupling" or "Doctor Who," and/or a good movie like "Hopscotch" with
> Walter Matthau on my phone and even Dad has a good flight! I think you missed the point. These movies are supposed to be either downloading or streaming from some server to iPhoney, right? That would work over wifi, but ain't gonna happen over EDGE in SLOW MOTION...(c; Movies over EDGE would look more like a slide show. Movies over EVDO are BARELY playable in RealVideo at 320Kbps because streaming needs RELIABLE thruput, not spurts of speed with unpredictable dead times and highly variable download rates over a SELLphone circuit.
(Oh, God, this is gonna bring out of the woodwork a whole bunch of fanbois who get 4Mbps 24/7 over their SELLphones, just watch.)
SELLphone processors, of course, have to deal with being SELLphones, too. That's gotta be a lot of CPU cycles wasted while you're trying to watch a movie.
I can see balks caused by my N800 tablet checking email and such while the movie is playing, so I shut down the BT or wifi link to put a stop to it. Too many interrupt-driven background projects spoils the smooth delivery of video/audio to the picture.
For these reasons, I quit using the Orb streamer over EVDO and just easily load a few things I want to watch from the mainframe to the 8GB SD card before I leave. Once the net is turned off and I'm watching something from the External 8GB SD card slot, at 800 pixels wide, it's an incredible movie machine using rplayer, recently ported to Maemo Linux with its own better codecs for Divx/Xvid movies. To get such a picture with Stereo sound, usually MP3 encoded, just eats the 330MHz TI OMAP 2420 CPU. It will still run apps in background without balking unless the apps, themselves balk, of course. It's best to shut everything down you can before starting the movie for best results.
People who have seen them all are amazed at how well the DivX movies look on the N800 runnin mplayer, which puts it by default in full screen mode and utilizes all the N800's buttons....forward/back/pause/play/next/previous/audio up/down/menu...etc.
mplayer isn't very polished, yet. I did find I can get back to the desktop by playing a trick on it....press the power/lock button as if I'm going to lock it, and the desktop appears while the movie still runs, then click FULL SCREEN to return to the movie. The codecs it runs destroys the usefulness of the app picker (lowest button on the front) as it comes out two sizes.. (c; Speed and smooth is much more important....
Thanks for the pointer to PocketDivx encoder. I ran it on a DivX movie I couldn't play on the tablet to change it, but it crashed. I sent the log of the crash to the author for his use. I'll play with it further. The N800 isn't a selection so I chose one of the big Archos players. I'll figure out what optimum is for the tablet. Nokia has a converter, too, but it's slow and not very friendly to the codec mass on my mainframe. It didn't fix some of the movies that wouldn't play. mplayer fixed a lot of them, but there are still some I can't play on the tablet. PocketDivx may be a port to fix that. Again, thanks.
Larry
 Signature I worked hard under Social Security since I was 12. My SS retirement check is one oz of gold per month. Can we afford to start any more wars for corporations?
Ron Chapman - 28 Dec 2007 02:25 GMT > SELLphone processors, of course, have to deal with being > SELLphones, too. That's gotta be a lot of CPU cycles wasted > while you're trying to watch a movie. While your limited experience is with Verizon and Alltel, the rest of the world doesn't use providers that SELL you your phone features back.
Therefore, we're not talking SELLphones, we're talking cellular phones.
Get away from Alltel, and get into the real world.
Tinman - 28 Dec 2007 15:49 GMT > I think you missed the point. These movies are supposed to be > either downloading or streaming from some server to iPhoney, No, Larry, as usual it is you that missed the point. Nobody said the movies would be streamed directly to the iPhone.
And ferchristsake, you are over 60-years-old. Stop acting like you are twelve.
 Signature Mike
Larry - 28 Dec 2007 17:29 GMT > No, Larry, as usual it is you that missed the point. Nobody said the > movies would be streamed directly to the iPhone. So the point REALLY is the iphoney ISN'T going to be playing movies, after all.....unless some miracle happens.
Larry
 Signature I worked hard under Social Security since I was 12. My SS retirement check is one oz of gold per month. Can we afford to start any more wars for corporations?
Todd Allcock - 28 Dec 2007 21:47 GMT > So the point REALLY is the iphoney ISN'T going to be playing movies, > after all.....unless some miracle happens. Yeah, the "miracle" of synching.
The movies will load from your computer (or likely also over WiFi, since Apple enabled iTunes purchasing on the phone directly via WiFi some months ago.)
Why does this invalidate movies on the iPhone in your mind?
Larry - 29 Dec 2007 04:15 GMT >> So the point REALLY is the iphoney ISN'T going to be playing movies, >> after all.....unless some miracle happens. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Why does this invalidate movies on the iPhone in your mind? Ah, I see. Thanks.
Can you store the movies on the iPhone so you can play them away from your hotspot from the iPhone memory? What restrictions on them are there from this "rental"?
Remember the DivX movies Circuit City sold that would only run 3 days before self-destruct. Is it like that or you only get to play them once or the like?
Again, thanks for the information, I couldn't figure out how they were going to deliver them over EDGE crawling along like a snail on 2G.
Larry
 Signature I worked hard under Social Security since I was 12. My SS retirement check is one oz of gold per month. Can we afford to start any more wars for corporations?
Todd Allcock - 29 Dec 2007 04:40 GMT > Can you store the movies on the iPhone so you can play them away from > your hotspot from the iPhone memory? What restrictions on them are there > from this "rental"? I'm not sure they've hammere out all of the details, but I assume you can play them without a connection (but perhaps a connection will be necessary at first to verify they're still playable) and I assume they'll self-destruct like the reel-to- reel tape in an episode of Mission: Impossible after x# of plays and/or days.
> Remember the DivX movies Circuit City sold that would only run 3 days > before self-destruct. Is it like that or you only get to play them once > or the like? We'll see- as always, I assume the devil's in the details! ;-)
> Again, thanks for the information, I couldn't figure out how they were > going to deliver them over EDGE crawling along like a snail on 2G. What would be cool would be a Microsoft Zune-like subscription for Video. (MS offers a $15 subscription that lets you download and play virtually any song in their store for $15/month. The catch is that all the songs "expire" and refuse to play when you stop paying.) A similar "subscription" for video would be a neat competitor to cable or satellite, and a natural extension of the Netflix concept.
Larry - 29 Dec 2007 05:34 GMT Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:fl4j9o$3a9$1 @aioe.org:
> What would be cool would be a Microsoft Zune-like subscription for Video. Naw. What will be cool is when Western Digital comes out with the self- powered hard drive that plugs into the SD socket on my N800 tablet so I can take more movies with me than will fit on the 8GB SD that's in there now.
alt.binaries.movies.divx
Ever downloaded any?...........................................liars!
Larry
 Signature I worked hard under Social Security since I was 12. My SS retirement check is one oz of gold per month. Can we afford to start any more wars for corporations?
Todd Allcock - 30 Dec 2007 00:24 GMT > Naw. What will be cool is when Western Digital comes out with the self- > powered hard drive that plugs into the SD socket on my N800 tablet so I can > take more movies with me than will fit on the 8GB SD that's in there now. Blame Nokia for not allowing the USB port on the tablet for being a "host" as well as a "client."
> alt.binaries.movies.divx > > Ever downloaded any?...........................................liars! Actually I haven't. I won't pretend I'm lily white and pure- but I tend to limit my illegal downloading to content that's unavailable to purchase- i.e. the BBC's new "Doctor Who" series that won't be broadcast here for up to a year after it's broadcast there, then after the US Broadcast it'll finally come out on DVD, over a year after it's released on DVD there. I just pulled the Christmas episode with a bittorrent client a couple of days ago. Some nice Brit uploaded it less than 90 minutes after it aired in the UK.
I don't have a problem paying the legitimate copyright holders for their product, I just get annoyed at the stupidity, particularly in this digital age where you don't even have to press and distribute a physical disc anymore, of not making content available.
Classic TV is a perfect example- I realize not enough people would buy, say, the entire series of "The Wild, Wild West" or "Route 66" on DVD to justify pressing it, but this kind of stuff would be perfect fodder for a download it/burn it yourself distribution model.
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 30 Dec 2007 02:24 GMT > Classic TV is a perfect example- I realize not enough people would buy, > say, the entire series of "The Wild, Wild West" or "Route 66" on DVD to > justify pressing it, but this kind of stuff would be perfect fodder for a > download it/burn it yourself distribution model. Or just watch it as you wish.
hulu.com is coming on VERY strong; if they continue as they are, they will force a huge change in how people do this kind of thing.
Joost was there first, but buggered it up with bad programming and the absolute worst user interface they could come up with.
4phun - 29 Dec 2007 05:51 GMT 20th Century Fox will not be the only studio on board when Apple announces its upcoming movie rental service, according to a New York Times report.
Source - > iLounge and New York Times http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/multiple-studios-on-board-for-app le-rental-service-launch/
CozmicDebris - 29 Dec 2007 06:33 GMT > 20th Century Fox will not be the only studio on board when Apple > announces its upcoming movie rental service, according to a New York [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/multiple-studios-on-boar > d-for-apple-rental-service-launch/ Which has nothing to do with the iPhone and is therefore off topic for this group. The agreement is for iTunes.
Now you must go away.
4phun - 29 Dec 2007 13:32 GMT > > 20th Century Fox will not be the only studio on board when Apple > > announces its upcoming movie rental service, according to a New York [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Now you must go away. Clue less!
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 29 Dec 2007 14:24 GMT In article <1510daba-3150-4818-8246-4ec95dfa2ac2@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> > Which has nothing to do with the iPhone and is therefore off topic for this > > group. The agreement is for iTunes. > > > > Now you must go away. > > Clue less! Oxford, how is it that this agreement has nothing to do with the iPhone in particular but rather is an iTunes thing?
Hey, people who own an iPhone also eat bread. Why don't you go to some of the agricultural newsgroups and bother them?
4phun - 29 Dec 2007 14:31 GMT > > > 20th Century Fox will not be the only studio on board when Apple > > > announces its upcoming movie rental service, according to a New York [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > >http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/multiple-studios-on-boar > > > d-for-apple-rental-service-launch/
> > Now you must go away. > > Clue less! Source - > Forbes
Will The iPod/iPhone Kill Blockbuster? Brian Caulfield 12.28.07, 6:00 PM ET http://www.forbes.com/2007/12/28/apple-movie-rental-tech-media-cx_bc_1228apple_p rint.html
Burlingame, Calif. - Forget the cavernous big box stores that laid waste to the retail landscape a decade ago. Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs' tiny iPod has turned his company into a category killer for the digital era-- first wiping out music stores and now, potentially, the corner video store.
Starting in mid-January, the Cupertino, Calif., computer and gadget maker will take on Blockbuster and Netflix by renting movies from Fox on its iTunes digital media store, according to a report first published in the Financial Times earlier this week.
While older models of the iPod--and its low-end iPod Shuffle--can't play digital video, the gadgets now have a proven record of disruption, with customers bypassing record stores to tap into illegal distribution networks, along with Apple's iTunes music store, to fill the up their devices.
The result: Sales of CDs fell more than 30% to 614.9 million units last year from a peak of 881.9 million in 2000, according to the Recording Industry Association. Once sprawling chains, such as Tower Records, have shuttered.
Apple, however, isn't the first major tech company to offer digital video rentals. Amazon rents movies to users of PCs and TiVos via its Unbox service. Microsoft is even offering digital movie rentals on its XBox 360 game console. Neither company, however, poses the same threat to DVD rental companies as Apple, which has an installed base of more than 100 million digital media devices that consumers carry in their pockets.
Since Apple first began offering video content in its store two years ago, Jobs has expanded the company's video offerings. The weak link: the AppleTV set-top box effort. Some industry observers estimate that the device has sold fewer than 1 million units since it went on sale earlier this year, so video rentals could surely revive the effort.
Despite Apple's movie rental push, Blockbuster and Netflix won't disappear tomorrow. They likely will continue to slug it out in the business of renting digital video discs. Blockbuster has moved to counter the threat from Netflix, which mails movies to customers who queue up their orders online, with a Web-based service of its own. Netflix, meanwhile, allows customers to rent digital movies for their PCs.
Still, their days might be numbered: The iPod has killed before. It will kill again.
Shares of Netflix sagged 2.19% to $26.85 in Friday trading. Shares of Blockbuster fell 1.03% to $3.86. Apple rose 0.40% to $199.37.
CozmicDebris - 29 Dec 2007 15:33 GMT >> > 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote >> > innews:9d8bbed0-3301-430a-a7db-fd759c [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > http://www.forbes.com/2007/12/28/apple-movie-rental-tech-media-cx_bc_12 > 28apple_print.html Thanks- that proved my point. Who's the clueless one now?
Larry - 29 Dec 2007 19:57 GMT 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:0b3ed27d-bf6c-4037-bcdf- 362629426d81@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com:
> Since Apple first began BOXOFFICE-IN-YOUR-POCKET.......same as BILLBOARD-IN-YOUR-LIVING-ROOM (TV)
It's what America has become.....
Larry
 Signature http://kitco.com/charts/livegold.html 9-11-2001 gold was $270/oz TODAY its $838/oz, up $40 since Christmas, up $11 just TODAY! 1yearchg +204.60 +32.26% When does a "slide" become a "crash"?
4phun - 30 Dec 2007 02:37 GMT > 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote in news:0b3ed27d-bf6c-4037-bcdf- > 362629426...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > 1yearchg +204.60 +32.26% > When does a "slide" become a "crash"? Wal Mart closed their on line video store today. They are throwing in the towel with this ITunes/iPhone development.
CozmicDebris - 30 Dec 2007 02:39 GMT >> 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote in news:0b3ed27d-bf6c-4037-bcdf- >> 362629426...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Wal Mart closed their on line video store today. They are throwing in > the towel with this ITunes/iPhone development. They made no mention of Apple or iTunes. They did mention lackluster sales, and it would be so like Apple to spend a lot of money on a market that doesn't exist.
4phun - 30 Dec 2007 02:53 GMT > >> 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote in news:0b3ed27d-bf6c-4037-bcdf- > >> 362629426...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > - Show quoted text - But other computer blogs and printed magazines didn't miss the connection and have already posted the same thing but in a more detailed anaylsis.
CozmicDebris - 30 Dec 2007 03:23 GMT >> 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote >> innews:3dcea241-7806-4cf5-bf5e-a668e1ff [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > connection and have already posted the same thing but in a more > detailed anaylsis. Please provide the names of thos printed magazines.
4phun - 30 Dec 2007 07:55 GMT > >> 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote > >> innews:3dcea241-7806-4cf5-bf5e-a668e1ff [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Please provide the names of thos printed magazines. Would the NY Times do as a quick example to prove my point?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/29/business/media/29movie.html
December 29, 2007 Wal-Mart Pulls Plug on Movies via the Web By MATT RICHTEL and BRAD STONE
Quote for those incapable of following lnks
"Only Apple, which has sold more than three billion songs through its iTunes online store, seems to have had any success in selling movies. The company is expected soon to add digital movie rentals from 20th Century Fox to iTunes. It already lets users purchase films from Disney and MGM, and the company is reportedly talking with other movie studios to add their libraries to Apple's online store."
<snip>
"The problems are surmountable, but not soon, he said. "All these things can potentially get resolved, but we're a long ways away from the simplicity and convenience that made iTunes such a success with music."
Wal-Mart.com's offering may have been further hindered by its digital rights management software, known as D.R.M., meant to protect the movie from being copied. It prevented downloaded movies from being watched on more than one computer or on popular mobile devices like the iPod. Wal-Mart.com's digital movies were protected by Microsoft's anticopying software and could be played only using Microsoft's Windows Media Player program.
In a research note published Friday, Rich Greenfield, an analyst with Pali Capital, said the D.R.M. might have doomed Wal-Mart's movie service. "We suspect a key reason behind Wal-Mart's decision to exit the digital video download business was the need for D.R.M., which prevented the content from working with iPods," he wrote. "Anywhere you look, Apple's devices are winning, forcing content holders' hands." "
And so forth...
In a nice way he says consumers think Microsoft's DRM (think Vista, ZUNE, Win Media player) suck. Apple knows what NORMAL people want and is winning with the combination of iTunes and iPods (also iPhones which IMHO are glorified iTouch iPods). Microsoft is delivering the experience of Vista and Windows Mobile as their best effort and both simply injure those who adopt the Microsoft solution. I can feel their pain as I have tried both.
Larry - 30 Dec 2007 17:45 GMT 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:b376129b-fb4f-4551-b6c9- 99afc1760215@e50g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
> Apple knows what NORMAL people want Change NORMAL to STUPID and I agree. "People", the public, cannot set the time on their VCRs blinking 12:00 for years. Apple has very smartly, and profitably filled that gap with locked up devices that are incredibly easy for the incredibly stupid to operate, ipod and iphone's true selling points.
Micro$oft sells stuff for computers that require learning how to basically operate one, not "appliances" as easy to use as toasters.....the very reason Linux will NEVER go mainstream.....
Larry
 Signature http://kitco.com/charts/livegold.html 9-11-2001 gold was $270/oz TODAY its $838/oz, up $40 since Christmas, up $11 just TODAY! 1yearchg +204.60 +32.26% When does a "slide" become a "crash"?
4phun - 30 Dec 2007 19:10 GMT > 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote in news:b376129b-fb4f-4551-b6c9- > 99afc1760...@e50g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > 1yearchg +204.60 +32.26% > When does a "slide" become a "crash"? So what is the point? Do you enjoy the pain in playing with Linux? My wife wouldn't. She barely tolerates Windows. She just wants to get certain things done. And you know I have reached the age where I am beginning not to care any more when something difficult must be done again and I forgotten the exact sequence it must be done in.
Simple is nice, especially if you have the money to pay to keep life simple.
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