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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / January 2008AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?
AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone posted Sunday, 11:00 PM by Eric M. Zeman AT&T has made SIM cards available on its web site that can be purchased without a handset. The price of the SIM card is $5 after a rebate, but still requires a two-year contract unless you choose a pre- paid option. It can be used with an existing or other unlocked handset. -- Do you think this is a good idea or just plain Verizon like greed when AT&T snaps you into another two year contract for buying a mere SIM? I thought AT&T promised to stop stuff like that? One person noted ... You SHOULD NOT sign a two year contract unless 1 of 2 reasons pop up: 1: Free Phone, or cheaper phone. 2: Promotional Plan Don't you agree? > AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone > posted Sunday, 11:00 PM by Eric M. Zeman [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Don't you agree? Being there is no discount on the iPhone, then this means don't buy an iPhone till, (See above) 1. Free iphone or when apple lowers the price. (The already lower price does not count) 2. There is no iPhone Promo price. >> AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone >> posted Sunday, 11:00 PM by Eric M. Zeman [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> paid option. It can be used with an existing or other unlocked >> handset. Go to the website and look at the charges.: List price is $10.00, with 2-year contract it is $5.00 after rebate. If you want the 2-year contract, pay the $5.00; if you want no contract, pay the $10.00. >>> AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone >>> posted Sunday, 11:00 PM by Eric M. Zeman [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > If you want the 2-year contract, pay the $5.00; if you want no > contract, pay the $10.00. Try to buy it like that. After you select the SIM you'll next be asked to choose a plan for the SIM. All the plans have 2 year contract terms. Dennis Ferguson [snip] >> List price is $10.00, with 2-year contract it is $5.00 after rebate. >> If you want the 2-year contract, pay the $5.00; if you want no >> contract, pay the $10.00. > >Try to buy it like that. After you select the SIM you'll next be asked >to choose a plan for the SIM. All the plans have 2 year contract terms. Nope. See < http://tinyurl.com/24g5cc>. > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > See < http://tinyurl.com/24g5cc>. Well that's good news! Was this a response to the outcry, or was it just a mistake on their web site? > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > See < http://tinyurl.com/24g5cc>. Got it. I see they fixed their web site by removing the SIM-only option from the list (or at least it isn't where it was last time I tried). Maybe they'll also get around to fixing their stores, or at least the one I pass on the way home. I dropped in today and asked about getting a new postpaid line of service, SIM-only without the phone, and they said there was still a minimum 1 year contract. That's different than it used to be, but still not what they're saying above. They were quite pleasant in the store, though, much nicer than I remember them being 3 years ago when I was last there, and very sorry they couldn't help. Dennis Ferguson > Do you think this is a good idea or just plain Verizon like greed when > AT&T snaps you into another two year contract for buying a mere SIM? I > thought AT&T promised to stop stuff like that? I think that it's AT&T testing to see how many customers are dumb enough to pay $5 for a SIM when you can get a phone with a SIM for free, then sell the new phone on CraigsList or eBay for $50 or so. It's like when they charge more for naked DSL than basic metered landline service plus DSL (at least for the introductory year). >> Do you think this is a good idea or just plain Verizon like greed when >> AT&T snaps you into another two year contract for buying a mere SIM? I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >It's like when they charge more for naked DSL than basic metered >landline service plus DSL (at least for the introductory year). AT&T is actually tested to see how many are dumb enough to sign up for 2-year terms without any real incentive to do so.  SignatureBest regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS: John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ> > Do you think this is a good idea or just plain Verizon like greed when > AT&T snaps you into another two year contract for buying a mere SIM? I > thought AT&T promised to stop stuff like that? The only thing new about this is that they are offering the SIM on the web site. I bought service at an AT&T store and, while I have two lines of service, I only bought one phone, and I only bought that after a long discussion about why it was that I had to take a 2 year contract even if I didn't get discounted phones. I'd point out that Verizon has always had a 1 year contract option if you take $50 less equipment discount, which I assume is also what you'd get if you brought your own phone when you took a new line of service. AT&T's greed is its own. Dennis Ferguson > I'd point out that Verizon has always had a 1 year contract option > if you take $50 less equipment discount, which I assume is also what > you'd get if you brought your own phone when you took a new line of > service. AT&T's greed is its own. I think that some sort of contract is reasonable even if you bring your own equipment. The carrier does have some expense in setting up a new account and doesn't want people terminating service soon after establishing it. Two years is ridiculously long if you're not getting a phone subsidy, and even one year is pushing it. If they insist on a 2 year contract when you buy a SIM, then they should give you a $50 credit on your account (though the "free" GSM phones cost the carrier well under $50). With the current prepaid deals, many consumers would be better off with no contract at all. I.e. you can get PagePlus for as little as 5.3¢/minute, with text messages as low as 3.5¢ each. $40/month seems to be the lowest base rate these days from any carrier, which would provide 750 anytime minutes on PagePlus. No ridiculous overage charges either. However no free nights and weekends. >> I'd point out that Verizon has always had a 1 year contract option >> if you take $50 less equipment discount, which I assume is also what [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >account and doesn't want people terminating service soon after >establishing it. ... That's what the activation fee is for. Doh! SignatureBest regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS: John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ> > I think that some sort of contract is reasonable even if you bring > your own equipment. The carrier does have some expense in setting > up a new account and doesn't want people terminating service soon > after establishing it. I disagree- the setup expenses are what the "activation fee" is supposedly for. VoIP providers manage to sign people up for short terms without contracts (or even activation fees in many cases!) and they've got higher churn rates than cellular companies. Cell companies also don't seem to have a problem siging up a prepaid customer for short periods- they should be perfectly willing to risk a short term $40+/month customer if they're willing to risk an $8/month prepaid customer. > Two years is ridiculously long if you're not getting a phone subsidy, Two years is ridiculously long anyway. Particularly when that second year only nets you another $50 off the price of a phone. How is the first year worth $100-200 and the second only worth $50? > and even one year is pushing it. If they insist on a 2 year contract > when you buy a SIM, then they should give you a $50 credit on your > account (though the "free" GSM phones cost the carrier well under $50). Unlikely. According to RCR Wireless News (a trade mag), low-end US market phones still wholesale for $60+. The under-$50 barrier was only broken recently by Nokia and Motorola for monochrome-screen featureless phones designed for emerging nations (India, China, etc.) > With the current prepaid deals, many consumers would be better off > with no contract at all. I.e. you can get PagePlus for as little as > 5.3¢/minute, with text messages as low as 3.5¢ each. $40/month seems > to be the lowest base rate these days from any carrier, which would > provide 750 anytime minutes on PagePlus. No ridiculous overage charges > either. However no free nights and weekends. Or in-net calling, which many folks take advantage of. Otherwise I agree with you- prepaid is a better deal for a large number of phone users, many who probably avoid it based on stigma alone. >> I think that some sort of contract is reasonable even if you bring >> your own equipment. The carrier does have some expense in setting [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > be perfectly willing to risk a short term $40+/month customer if they're > willing to risk an $8/month prepaid customer. Activation fees are routinely waived, so the carrier probably justifies the contract even with user-supplied equipment based on the cost of adding a customer to their network. > Unlikely. According to RCR Wireless News (a trade mag), low-end US market > phones still wholesale for $60+. The under-$50 barrier was only broken > recently by Nokia and Motorola for monochrome-screen featureless phones > designed for emerging nations (India, China, etc.) That's probably the average, not the lowest cost for a company as large as AT&T. They're selling prepaid phones that can easily be unlocked for under $50. I saw stories on RCR more than a year ago of $40 wholesale for low-end phones. > Or in-net calling, which many folks take advantage of. Otherwise I agree > with you- prepaid is a better deal for a large number of phone users, many > who probably avoid it based on stigma alone. Hopefully that stigma is becoming less and less. I can tell you that among seniors, including those that can afford postpaid, it seems to have lost its stigma (at least in South Florida). I know several people that have no credit or income problems, but that just don't want so many recurring monthly fees for stuff they don't use a lot. http://www.intomobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/att_free.jpg > Activation fees are routinely waived, But probably not for month-to-month customers. > so the carrier probably justifies the contract even with user- > supplied equipment based on the cost of adding a customer to their > network. Perhaps- T-Mobile rolled out a contract-free plan back in October called Flexpay. It's similar to a hybrid plan like AT&T's GoPhone, but let's you choose from T-Mo's "real" plans with perks (free N&W, M2M, etc.) intact, and all regular "add-ons" (like unlimited data) available. > That's probably the average, not the lowest cost for a company > as large as AT&T. They're selling prepaid phones that can easily > be unlocked for under $50. Yes, and selling them at a loss to encourage the purchase of prepaid minutes. > I saw stories on RCR more than a year ago of $40 wholesale for low-end phones. Again, those were phones you and I will never see unless we go to India or China! ;-) > Hopefully that stigma is becoming less and less. I can tell you > that among seniors, including those that can afford postpaid, it > seems to have lost its stigma (at least in South Florida). I know > several people that have no credit or income problems, but that > just don't want so many recurring monthly fees for stuff they don't > use a lot. Agreed. Back when I was a Cingular dealer, I sold a lot of prepaid phones to credit-worthy folks, most of whom were Seniors. I practically had to strongarm some of them into accepting that prepaid didn't mean "deadbeat" if their sons or daughters brought them in to shop. I even offered to handle the refills for those who didn't want to deal with scratch-off cards and VRUs. I kept a calendar and called my customers shortly before their expiration date and topped them up either by credit card over the phone, credit card number in my tickler file (at their option if they trusted me) or by mailed check. (Keep in mind this was nearly a decade ago- web use in general, particularly by Seniors was much lower than today! IIRC, Cingular hadn't even set up an automated buy-by-phone option for prepaid airtime yet.) Those that I took care of this way took care of me in spades with word of mouth and talk of the "cheap cell phone guy" spread amongst the local seniors faster than talk of bladder problems and the high price of medicines. ;-) Early in my prepaid-selling career I even secured a bunch of old closeout Nokias that produced a fake dialtone. The seniors loved that one- you hit "Talk" first then dialed the number, just their cordless phones at home. >> I disagree- the setup expenses are what the "activation fee" is supposedly >> for. VoIP providers manage to sign people up for short terms without [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >the contract even with user-supplied equipment based on the cost of >adding a customer to their network. That makes absolutely no sense. >> Unlikely. According to RCR Wireless News (a trade mag), low-end US market >> phones still wholesale for $60+. The under-$50 barrier was only broken [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >under $50. I saw stories on RCR more than a year ago of $40 wholesale >for low-end phones. Todd is correct. SignatureBest regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS: John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ> [snip] >Two years is ridiculously long if you're not getting a phone subsidy, >and even one year is pushing it. [snip] Two years is ridiculously long period -- particularly when the phones comes with a one-year warranty and many phones (e.g., Blackbery) aren't insurable thru AT&T. If your Blackberry breaks between year one and two on a two-year contract then you are hosed. I liked getting one-year contracts -- realizing that while I paid $50-$100 more than if I did a 2-yar contract (and sometimes not getting a rebate) I had the peace of mind knowing my phone was always under warranty and being able to upgrade to the newest model Blackberry yearly. >Two years is ridiculously long period -- particularly when the phones >comes with a one-year warranty and many phones (e.g., Blackbery) >aren't insurable thru AT&T. > >If your Blackberry breaks between year one and two on a two-year >contract then you are hosed. ... Not if you insure it someplace else. SignatureBest regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS: John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ> >AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone > posted Sunday, 11:00 PM by Eric M. Zeman [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >paid option. It can be used with an existing or other unlocked >handset. AT&T/Cingular has long offered SIM-only service, and I've not had a problem getting a shorter term when I've asked for it. SignatureBest regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS: John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ> |
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