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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / March 2008new logging feature found (iPhone)
A new logging feature has been found in the iPhone firmware 1.2 beta that tracks and stores the physichal location of the iPhone based on cell tower triangulation and Wi-Fi longitude/latitude data, making it possible to not only know where you are, but where you have been. iPhone News <invalid@nospam.net> wrote in news:invalid- B428AE.19113718032008@news.giganews.com: > A new logging feature has been found in the iPhone firmware 1.2 beta > that tracks and stores the physichal location of the iPhone based on > cell tower triangulation and Wi-Fi longitude/latitude data, making it > possible to not only know where you are, but where you have been. http://dtrask.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/vcsmapper.png Here's what you look like on the N800's Maemo Mapper. The poster didn't have his position and trail onscreen from the little Bluetooth GPS so he may not have one. Your position, in motion, looks like a blue dot with a line pointing out of it showing your course. Behind the dot will be a red trail going back since the last time you cleared it, ad nauseum. See the lanes on those roads with the white line down the middle? The GPS position puts you in the proper lane you are in and the trail is so accurate you can see yourself making lane changes exactly where did. If you have a good 3D fix, when you pull into a parking space at the mall, your blue dot is exactly in the space you are occupying. If you take the tablet with you into the mall, you can easily find your car by booting Maemo mapper on the way out because you left the GPS in the car so the trail doesn't trail you into the mall...showing you exactly where the car is located when you come out. Parking lot range with the GPS in the window to the tablet in your hand is well over 50 ft for updates.....incase someone moved your car while you were gone. This picture looks like Google Earth. I use Virtual Earth's COMPOSITE OVERLAY on my Maemo Mapper. That overlays the street map over the satellite photos and they both update, automatically, over the EVDO data link from Alltel on the road, in motion.... What's the iPhone display look like without GPS accuracy? "Somewhere in the shaded area"?? > What's the iPhone display look like without GPS accuracy? "Somewhere in > the shaded area"?? It looks pretty much the same as the example you have provided. But full blown GPS in a tool like the iPhone is impractical at this point and will soon be obsolete. Too much room and too much drain on the battery. Besides almost all new cars have GPS and portable units are so cheap there will be no need to have one on your phone. I think Apple is ahead of the curve by not pursuing this feature. >> What's the iPhone display look like without GPS accuracy? "Somewhere >> in the shaded area"?? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > so cheap there will be no need to have one on your phone. I think > Apple is ahead of the curve by not pursuing this feature. Tom, you should be working for Hillary Clinton! What a spinmeister! There's no way in hell the iPhone with this crapware is going to place you at a point in the lane of a road or in a certain parking space. It might be able to place you at the whole mall, about that area. http://www.nokiausa.com/A4630703 If they had any brains, they'd use an external Bluetooth device like the LD-3W tiny GPS receiver I'm using with the N800 tablet. It's tiny, REPLACEABLE, STANDARD, Nokia sellphone battery runs 22 hours of CONTINUOUS use on a charge, and recharges in 3 hours for tomorrow. In standby, with no bluetooth connection, it will standby for 7 days. It runs all the time in my car, 24/7, and I charge it once a week, either from the car or the N800's charger in the house (same STANDARD Nokia power supply their phones use). A Bluetooth pairing turns it on. Who told you GPS is obsolete? They need some re-education. GPS navigates every plane and ship on the planet! LD-3W is what the iphone needs for nav....even comes with commercial Nav software, since Nokia just went and bought Navicore, Inc. > Who told you GPS is obsolete? They need some re-education. GPS navigates > every plane and ship on the planet! I was speaking of putting GPS on cell phones as being obsolete. As I stated, with GPS now on just about every car and portable units so cheap there is no reason to have one on your phone. >> Who told you GPS is obsolete? They need some re-education. GPS >> navigates every plane and ship on the planet! > > I was speaking of putting GPS on cell phones as being obsolete. As I > stated, with GPS now on just about every car and portable units so > cheap there is no reason to have one on your phone. They just started putting GPS chips in sellphones so the DEA can track you. Unfortunately, because it's a SELLphone, you are not allowed to USE the GPS you paid for....another stupid carrier decision. >>>Who told you GPS is obsolete? They need some re-education. GPS >>>navigates every plane and ship on the planet! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Unfortunately, because it's a SELLphone, you are not allowed to USE the GPS > you paid for....another stupid carrier decision. Does not apply to many HP iPaqs that support/display native A-GPS. > Does not apply to many HP iPaqs that support/display native A-GPS. Or to the HTC devices with an integral GPS. It's a virtual certainty that a future iPhone will have an integrated GPS, or at least allow the use of a Bluetooth GPS. The iPhone is the perfect platform for a GPS, with its huge amount of Flash, and its large screen. Apple's just a little behind the curve right now. They need to get the 3G iPhone out the door, and fix the issues with the current model (i.e. the lack of voice-dialing). Personally, I think an application for the iPhone, using an external Bluetooth GPS, is an okay solution, and would have benefits in terms of battery life and in keeping the iPhone as thin as it is now. For handheld use the module can be coupled mechanically to the iPhone, while for in-car use the module can be optimally placed on the dash, with the iPhone in a better location. >> Does not apply to many HP iPaqs that support/display native A-GPS. > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > for in-car use the module can be optimally placed on the dash, with the > iPhone in a better location. GPS must be onboard/integral. Anything else is uncompetitive. >> Personally, I think an application for the iPhone, using an external >> Bluetooth GPS, is an okay solution, and would have benefits in terms of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > GPS must be onboard/integral. Anything else is uncompetitive. I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Even today, precious few phones include a "real" GPS- most rely on the carrier's E911 GPS data sold on a subscription basis. I think BT GPS support is good enough, if you're trying to keep size/battery life in check. With the current crop of tiny (keychain/"lipstick") GPS units with high sensitivity, good battery life and auto on/off, Apple could easily market an "official" Apple iPhone/iPod Touch keychain BT GPS (you know, resell an existing OEM product for twice the money in a brushed aluminum case with an Apple logo on it!) and that would effective end the "no GPS" objection, which, IMO, has to be right up their with no voice dial, no 3rd party apps, no 3G and no Exchange support as leading iPhone negatives. Exchange and 3rd party are being addressed, 3G will be in a newer model, so if they add BT GPS support and voice dial, I'll have very little left to complain about! (But I'm sure i'll think of something when Oxford posts something else stupid!) ;) >>> Personally, I think an application for the iPhone, using an external >>> Bluetooth GPS, is an okay solution, and would have benefits in terms [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Even today, precious few phones > include a "real" GPS IPaq and HTC... among others. Frankly, no one needs another iDongle, iCable, or iKey and to run an unnecessary BT radio simultaneously, which compromises battery life. BTW, the onboard A-GPS on the iPaq (which syncs to Google Maps) will put you right in the pickle barrel (if that's where you are, or want to be). > > I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Even today, precious few phones include a "real" GPS > IPaq and HTC... among others. The iPaqs and HTCs came to mind for me as well... ...then I couldn't think of any others! ;-) > Frankly, no one needs another iDongle, iCable, or iKey and to run an unnecessary BT radio simultaneously, which compromises battery life. I'm not sure BT strains the battery much more than an onboard GPS. > BTW, the onboard A-GPS on the iPaq (which syncs to Google Maps) will put you right in the pickle barrel (if that's where you are, or want to be). I certainty agree onboard is preferable to external BT, but it's an acceptable compromise, particular for the several million iPhones already sold. While I'd like to have internal GPS on my next phone (I use an external GPS with my HTC Wizard) I wouldn't let the GPS be the deciding factor in a phone purchase (but if it's there, great.) I love the WinMo OS, but I've never been overly impressed by the hardware- every phone has some achille's heel, whether it's a slow processor (my Wizard), slow video (Tilt), or stupid quasi-compatible square screen (HP's recent models, Treos) I've been leaning towards the Kaiser/Tilt (if T-Mobile gets around to releasing it) as my next phone, since HP seems to have cancelled the 914, but I may hold out for the Sony X1 later in the year. > I certainty agree onboard is preferable to external BT, but it's an > acceptable compromise, particular for the several million iPhones already > sold. While I'd like to have internal GPS on my next phone (I use an > external GPS with my HTC Wizard) I wouldn't let the GPS be the deciding > factor in a phone purchase (but if it's there, great.) One big advantage I've found with an external GPS module is that while driving you can have the antenna on the dash, with the rest of the unit in a better location (closer to where a built in GPS would be). Even a mini-USB jack where you plugged in an external GPS module would be fine, but that's very un-Apple. In some ways it's nice for it to be built in or at least powered by the device. I have an old PDA with a CompactFlash GPS unit. Kind of nice to not have to carry around the GPS part all the time. I saw the unlocked HTC Tilt with the integrated GPS at Costco, and it weighs 50% more than the iPhone and is about 1.8x as thick. It's good a lot more functionality, and they didn't leave out crucial features like the iPhone did, but geez I can't imagine carrying that around all the time and using it as a phone. > I love the WinMo OS, but I've never been overly impressed by the hardware- > every phone has some achille's heel, whether it's a slow processor (my > Wizard), slow video (Tilt), or stupid quasi-compatible square screen (HP's > recent models, Treos) Well the iPhone hardware isn't perfect either. I was listening to an electronics guru on a radio talk show this morning fawning over the iPhone, until he got to the lack of 3G and admitted that web browsing was just painfully slow. > One big advantage I've found with an external GPS module is that while > driving you can have the antenna on the dash, with the rest of the unit in > a better location (closer to where a built in GPS would be). Yeah, but's that's less of an issue these days. I'm amazed at the reception abilities of modern day GPS receivers vs. older ones. My first GPS (a Pharos SiRF II CF card for an PocketPC) needed to be on the dash under the windshield. My latest (a BT GPS with a Nemerix chipset) works if I stuff it in the center console or even my pants pocket. > Even a mini-USB jack where you plugged in an external GPS module would be > fine, but that's very un-Apple. It's pretty "un-high tech" looking these days. > In some ways it's nice for it to be built in or at least powered by the > device. I have an old PDA with a CompactFlash GPS unit. Kind of nice to > not have to carry around the GPS part all the time. Yeah, but I chose my GPS (a Semsons' iBlue) to fill three criteria: small, (for it's day- the new "keychain" models are really small!) long battery life (it's rated for up to 30 hours use on a charge, but it's more like 20) and a mini-USB charge port so my HTC Wizard phone can share the same charger. (I hate carrying a bunch of different chargers around. Between my wife and I we have three mini-USB phones and two mini-USB GPS units. Whatever car we're in, we always have the right DC charger for all of our crap.) > I saw the unlocked HTC Tilt with the integrated GPS at Costco, and it > weighs 50% more than the iPhone and is about 1.8x as thick. It's good a > lot more functionality, and they didn't leave out crucial features like > the iPhone did, but geez I can't imagine carrying that around all the time > and using it as a phone. Depends on your POV, I guess- prior to using a "converged" device, I always carried my Pocket PC with me (it was larger than the Tilt) and a separate phone. Even a relatively large phone like the Tilt beats carrying two separate devices, and if you generally use a BT headset (my Motorola has a mini-USB charge port! ;) and voice dial, you rarely actually use the phone as a phone, unless you need to enter DTMF tones. >> I love the WinMo OS, but I've never been overly impressed by the >> hardware- [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > iPhone, until he got to the lack of 3G and admitted that web browsing was > just painfully slow. I'm a T-Mobile customer. What's 3G? ;) Kidding aside, EDGE was never really a problem for many of us until phones with better browsers (like the iPhone) developed. When mobile I tend to stick to PDA/mobile formatted sites if possible, or use Google's XHTML converter, which makes EDGE far less painful. The "problem" with the iPhone, is that the "real web" experience demands "real web" speeds. I understand Apple eschewing 3G, but I'm surprised they didn't set up their own proxy servers for the iPhone (like Opera did for Opera Mini), or con AT&T into doing it, so that could speedup the page load process for iPhones on EDGE. There's a great browser for Pocket PCs/WinMo phones called Thunderhawk, that really isn't a "browser" per se. It works through a dedicated proxy (like Opera Mini), and basically just sends graphic images of webpages to the phone so the actual page rendering is done on their servers, not your (relatively) underpowered, low bandwidth phone. When I tried Thunderhawk, it rendered faster on GPRS (30kbps) than any other Winmo browser did on EDGE, since you were really just uploading screen taps and downloading 320x240 images over the network. The only downside to Thunderhawk, is that it's a service rather than a product- you pay for usage of the server ($5/month or $50/year) rather than a one time fee for the software. I used a beta for a few months when I had a separate PPC and GPRS phone, but ditched it when I bought an EDGE WinMo phone, since EDGE was "good enough" for my uses, and Thunderhawk's service couldn't render one particular work website (after they upgraded it to the over-Java-scripted mess it is today!) that I have to access. (Opera Mini can partially render it, but generally I just remote into my home PC when I have to access it on the road from my phone.) > Yeah, but's that's less of an issue these days. I'm amazed at the > reception abilities of modern day GPS receivers vs. older ones. My first > GPS (a Pharos SiRF II CF card for an PocketPC) needed to be on the dash > under the windshield. My latest (a BT GPS with a Nemerix chipset) works > if I stuff it in the center console or even my pants pocket. Just for grins, lay your Bluetooth GPS >next< to your cell phone. Run a log of at least a half hour, then display it on Google Earth or Virtual Earth to see if there are anomalies. > Just for grins, lay your Bluetooth GPS >next< to your cell phone. > > Run a log of at least a half hour, then display it on Google Earth or > Virtual Earth to see if there are anomalies. I'm aware that a bug in the Nemerix chipsets can sometimes report a false position, but I've never seen it in use. That might be due to the "snap to road" feature of most nav programs, however. Or are you referring to something else? > I'm aware that a bug in the Nemerix chipsets can sometimes report a > false position, but I've never seen it in use. That might be due to > the "snap to road" feature of most nav programs, however. > > Or are you referring to something else? Take ANY GPS receiver that plots a track into any building canyon or into a restaurant with a lot of windows so it can still hear signals. Doesn't matter what it's "chipset" bugs are. PHYSICS and the physics of multipath propagation rule the roost, here. When it loses direct view of the sky for at LEAST 3 or 4 triangulating satellites, the REFLECTED signals coming a longer path change the arrival times of the timed pulses, now arriving late. The path it takes sitting still on a table will run all over the property as any reflective vehicles cause different path lengths from the sky to the receiver. It doesn't matter that the signals that show up on the signal strength display are well above acceptable. It's the RF PATH length, not the strength, causing the errors. The distance this fixed position runs around on the display, IS the distance difference in the various reflected paths from the birds to the unit. If the unit is seeing 6 birds sitting here, it's the combined length differences of the 6 signal paths....or 7 of 8 or 173. It's amazing it can find its position at all.... > Well the iPhone hardware isn't perfect either. I was listening to an > electronics guru on a radio talk show this morning fawning over the > iPhone, until he got to the lack of 3G and admitted that web browsing > was just painfully slow. There are so many WiFi networks to choose from that very few iPhone users use the EDGE network ay all. At any given time I have at least 5 open networks to choose from. And of course that makes the 3G look like dial-up. > There are so many WiFi networks to choose from that very few iPhone > users use the EDGE network ay all. And your source for that? I've used WiFi Pocket PCs and more recently a WinMo phone with WiFi for many years, and I find it necessary to use a cellular data plan. WiFi isn't nearly as ubiquitous as you pretend. While the number of WiFi APs have steadily risen over the last few years, most consumers have wised up and locked them down. When I first used my PPC wirelessly, I'd estimate only 1/3 or less were secure. Now 8 or 9 out of 10 are. > At any given time I have at least 5 open networks to choose from. You don't get around very much then. If you lived in a modern city, rather than Minneapolis, you wouldn't find it so easy, perhaps. > And of course that makes the 3G look like dial-up. How would you know? In prior posts you've told us you've never owned a cell phone prior to the iPhone, so you'd have no first hand knowledge of 3G access. WiFi is a transmission medium- not an internet provider. Those "5 open APs" you can choose from could just as easily be connected to a budget 256k DSL line than as a 12Mb cable connection. You just don't know. I've used hotel WiFi systems that were as slow as molasses when 30 hotel guests are all sharing an overloaded 1.5Mb Hughes satellite internet connection! It's a moot point anyway- all of your anti-3G sentiment will disappear and be forgotten when the 3G iPhone is released later this year, then you'll be telling all of us how wonderful 3G is. > While the number of WiFi APs have steadily risen over the last few > years, most consumers have wised up and locked them down. When I > first used my PPC wirelessly, I'd estimate only 1/3 or less were > secure. Now 8 or 9 out of 10 are. I have found the same thing. Particularly in the last year. Most WiFi is now locked. Right after reading your post I looked at the networks in my Condo. There were 19 networks. Only one was open.  SignatureCharles > You don't get around very much then. If you lived in a modern city, rather > than Minneapolis, you wouldn't find it so easy, perhaps. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > How would you know? In prior posts you've told us you've never owned a cell > phone prior to the iPhone, I don't live in Minneapolis and I would venture a pretty safe guess that I have cellphones that are older than you are. But at least you are consistent with your "facts" > I don't live in Minneapolis and I would venture a pretty safe guess that > I have cellphones that are older than you are. But at least you are > consistent with your "facts" My apologies if you aren't the latest nym-shift of our pal Oxford. You certainly sound like him and have the same over-rated opinion of WiFi's ubiquity. For the record, I was born before the first Moon landing, so I doubt you have any cellphones older than I. You may have phons older than mine- I'm a relative newcomer to cellular- my first was a circa-1990 or so Nokia- built Tandy CT-300 "brick" handheld with a data/fax interface topping out at a speedy 7200bps on a good day. >> Well the iPhone hardware isn't perfect either. I was listening to an >> electronics guru on a radio talk show this morning fawning over the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > open networks to choose from. And of course that makes the 3G look like > dial-up. You can't use the WiFi networks while moving, and free WiFi networks are definitely not the norm everywhere in the world or even everywhere in the U.S.. Unless Apple quickly comes out with the 3G model, they will continue to miss their sales goals without further drastic price cuts. Actually what the guy on KGO really wanted was an EVDO iPhone that worked on Sprint and Verizon, but that's far in the future. SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in news:47e5a837$0$36394 $742ec2ed@news.sonic.net: > really wanted was an EVDO iPhone that worked on Sprint > and Verizon, No, NO! Not on Verizon! An Iphone uses a lot of bandwidth (see the 131,000 page ATT bill video on YouTube...(c;). Verizon is selling 5GB for $60 PLUS FIFTY CENTS PER MEGABYTE OVER THAT! If iPhone was on Verizon, you'd be getting those thousand dollar sellphone bills, again! Editor's note - 50c/MB = $500/GB! Sprint's ok.... > Unless Apple quickly comes out with the 3G model, they will continue to > miss their sales goals without further drastic price cuts. Actually what > the guy on KGO really wanted was an EVDO iPhone that worked on Sprint > and Verizon, but that's far in the future. I don't think they are missing their sales goals. And they are selling plenty of iPhones with the Edge iPhone. I do think they will need the 3G model to reach their sales goal for 2008. I think the release of a 3G model and price cuts are built into their strategy of making their goal. SignatureCharles >>> Well the iPhone hardware isn't perfect either. I was listening to an >>> electronics guru on a radio talk show this morning fawning over the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > definitely not the norm everywhere in the world or even everywhere in > the U.S.. Bingo. iPhone is urban fanboi cafe-capable, but NOT a mobile platform. > Bingo. iPhone is urban fanboi cafe-capable, but NOT a mobile platform. But actually what Tom Payne wrote is probably partially true. Few iPhone users use the EDGE network at all. This isn't because they don't want a mobile platform, it's because they can't stand to use EDGE, so they seek out places with WiFi. OTOH, If every iPhone suddenly was using the HSDPA network, the 3G network would be bogged down. It's already happened in Taiwan, where FarEastone signed up far too many subscribers to their 3G service. > But actually what Tom Payne wrote is probably partially true. Maybe. As they say, "even a broken clock is right twice a day." > Few iPhone users use the EDGE network at all. This isn't because they > don't want a mobile platform, it's because they can't stand to use EDGE, > so they seek out places with WiFi. EDGE works fine in a pinch. I doubt millions of iPhone users are wasting even more time "seeking out WiFi" to check a movie listing or the weather. > OTOH, If every iPhone suddenly was using the HSDPA network, the 3G > network would be bogged down. I suspect that would be (will be) controlled by pricing. > EDGE works fine in a pinch. I doubt millions of iPhone users are > wasting even more time "seeking out WiFi" to check a movie listing or > the weather. You would be right, of course. To be frank EDGE is not all that bad, for what I use it for. The stuff I "need" to check on work pretty much the same on EDGE or WiFi (BOA Website, stocks, weather, email, a few Web-based forums, and the game Travian). Travian works great on the iPhone, and I usually need to check up on my villages every hour or so (damned game sucks you in like crack, and then starts to take over your life <g>). SignatureMike > You would be right, of course. To be frank EDGE is not all that bad, for > what I use it for. Agreed. Perhaps I'm too easy to please, but years ago I used to tether a Casio E-100 Palm-sized PC (the precursor to the Pocket PC) to a 14.4k TDMA data connection via infrared, so even the "slow" 150-200k sppeds of EDGE seem like a perfect acceptable mobile data solution to me! That said, I'll be happy to go to 3G when T-Mobile gets around to offering it later this year, but 3G alone isn't important enough to me to swith carriers over. >> Bingo. iPhone is urban fanboi cafe-capable, but NOT a mobile platform. > > But actually what Tom Payne wrote is probably partially true. Few iPhone > users use the EDGE network at all. This isn't because they don't want a > mobile platform, it's because they can't stand to use EDGE, so they seek > out places with WiFi. Indeed. Your comment confirms a static/urban/cafe-based iPhone user base. Wifi offers no elegant hand-off and EDGE offers far less urban coverage than GPRS, and almost zero suburban and rural coverage. > Indeed. Your comment confirms a static/urban/cafe-based iPhone > user base. Wifi offers no elegant hand-off and EDGE offers far less > urban coverage than GPRS, and almost zero suburban and rural > coverage. To be fair, the lack of WiFi soft handoffs aren't a big problem for web browsing or e-mail, particularly since the phone falls back to EDGE or GPRS in-between. You get virtually seamless, albeit variable speed/quality, connectivity. It really only becomes a problem with VoIP, since you'd drop calls at each handoff, but that's a non-issue for the iPhone, since it lacks any available VoIP client anyway. SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in news:47e3d8ff$0$36329 $742ec2ed@news.sonic.net: > For > handheld use the module can be coupled mechanically to the iPhone Naw...it's better in my jean's watchpocket. That's where the Nokia GPS goes for walking around navigation....(c; >...> They just started putting GPS chips in sellphones so the DEA can track >you. > > Unfortunately, because it's a SELLphone, you are not allowed to USE the > GPS > you paid for....another stupid carrier decision. GPS was imbedded in the CDMA chipset used by Sprint as announced by the CEO of Growell at the development conference in Dallas June 2003. I still have, but don't use, the Hitachi G1000 made available to developers at a wholesale price at the conference. Unfortunately, Sprint would not let developers have access to the lat-long. The GPS was used to comply with the e911 conventions. While not available to users for free, it was accurate within 30 feet as used by e911 during one time when I was following a guy so drunk his station wagon was scraping the concrete walls of the freeway through four cities. LBS was available via e411 but at a price that I don't think ever became popular. GPS is working fine on the ATT Tilt and Blackjack II. Sprint announced two weeks ago there is a software update for the Mogul that unlocks the GPS. I have two Bluetooth GPS that I use with a ATT 8525 and a Blackjack. They work fine BUT you are back to two devices, two units to charge, two car chargers, two sets of cables, etc. If I have to have two devices, I'll take a cell PDA with GPS built-in and a external 7"+ display. > I was speaking of putting GPS on cell phones as being obsolete. As I > stated, with GPS now on just about every car and portable units so cheap > there is no reason to have one on your phone. Same is true of MP3 players, yet that's the iPhone's main feature. And, if you recall the early iPhone commercials, Google Maps was/is a leading feature as well. Google Maps without GPS is like YouTube with still images. > Same is true of MP3 players, yet that's the iPhone's main feature. Incorrect. The main feature of the iPhone is its WiFi feature. > And, if you recall the early iPhone commercials, Google Maps was/is a > leading feature as well. Google Maps without GPS is like YouTube with > still images. It is MUCH more than Google maps. Assuming that you are not just a shill for a certain competing cell phone manufacturer, I'd suggest you read up on the iPhones features before making such foolish comments. Tom Payne <tp@nospam.net> wrote in news:tp-068E52.09201221032008 @news.giganews.com: > It is MUCH more than Google maps. Assuming that you are not just a shill > for a certain competing cell phone manufacturer, I'd suggest you read up > on the iPhones features before making such foolish comments. Todd's a big wheel at Nokia. He's the guy who dreamed up the Morph! Cool phone, Todd! I want one! > Tom Payne <tp@nospam.net> wrote in news:tp-068E52.09201221032008 > @news.giganews.com: > > Todd's a big wheel at Nokia. He's the guy who dreamed up the Morph! > > Cool phone, Todd! I want one! If I was a big wheel at Nokia, I'd have stuck an unlocked GSM module in your N800 and marketed it as a $400 "iPhone killer" last June! Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:frvek7$m3$1 @aioe.org: > Google Maps without GPS is like YouTube with > still images. Oh, I LIKE that one!...(c; Great tagline! ........ Rap is to music what Etch-A-Sketch is to art. >> I was speaking of putting GPS on cell phones as being obsolete. As I >> stated, with GPS now on just about every car and portable units so cheap [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > leading feature as well. Google Maps without GPS is like YouTube with > still images. And don't forget the fact that GPS is standard on very few cars. It's a very high cost optional feature, which is why portable units sell so well. A good portable unit is still $250. Apple is behind the curve with the iPhone by not having an integrated GPS, and/or not allowing Bluetooth to be used with an external GPS. It'd be a great platform for a GPS with its large touch screen, large amount of Flash, and long battery life. > Besides almost all new cars have GPS and portable units are so cheap > there will be no need to have one on your phone. I think Apple is ahead > of the curve by not pursuing this feature. There's nothing like Oxlogic. And if we soon evolve into pointy headed creatures with a single antennae to receive sound instead of two ears, Apple will have been "ahead of the curve" by "not pursuing" stereo bluetooth headphone support as well... ;-) >> Besides almost all new cars have GPS and portable units are so cheap >> there will be no need to have one on your phone. I think Apple is [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "ahead of the curve" by "not pursuing" stereo bluetooth headphone > support as well... ;-) I like my Motorola S9 BT stereo headset so much, I solved this lack-of- BT problem for all my old audio devices: http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=191834&WT.mc_n=67 &WT.mc_t=U&cm_ven=COMPARISON% 20SHOPPING&cm_cat=PRICEGRABBER&cm_pla=DATAFEED-%3EPRODUCTS&cm_ite=1% 20PRODUCT&cm_keycode=67 Sorry about the wordwrap...(d^:) Print this page out and take it to Best Buy with you. Those bastards want $79 for it, even though this is discontinued by Sony. Buy it on your credit card. Walk from the cash register to the service desk, whip out your printout and invoke the Best Buy "Price minus 15%" guarantee, bringing your price down to $42.46 + tax. She'll credit you the difference to your credit card.....saving you even more money than CC wants for discontinued stock. BB doesn't have to know CC doesn't carry it in the store up the street. It's in the CC warehouse under "stuff to dump that's obsolete" $42 and no shipping charges...not a bad "best buy"...(c; This tiny Sony transmitter must not have sold well at $80, even though it's BT, really tiny and is Li-Ion powered with a drop-in charging stand in 3 hours from dead. I left mine paired and playing to see how long it would run because my Li-Ion was so old it was dead-as-a-doorknob and I figured it was toast when I got it. It recharged right back up and its capacity returned after a few recharge cycles, just like Sony said it would. Specs say 11 continuous hours of BT paired play. Mine runs almost 14 to the S9! Range to the S9 with the tiny transmitter clipped to my carrying case is about 50' not 30 to BT specs. Playing in the center of the house, I can wear the phones anywhere and it still plays, DEAD QUIET with no background noise at all from the N800 tablet's standard stereo headphone jack. Hitting it hard with audio doesn't seem to distort it, either. I use the volume control on the S9 by my left ear to adjust volume. It only pairs with devices who use 0000 for the pairing code, so make sure your headphones can use 0000 before you try it. Works great on all stereo headphone jacks in the house from the old stereo to the old Archos Studio 20MB MP3 player to my favorite Xclef 120GB portable MP3 player, my N800 tablet and all. Bluetooth audio is FAR better than the noisy damned analog FM transmitters I just gave away...(c; Tiger Direct has the $129.95 Motorola S9 BT headset/sellphone handsfree for $49.95! That's really cheap! http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp? EdpNo=3581351&sku=M151-2310&SRCCODE=WEBGOOGSM&CMP=KNC-GOOGL Sorry about the wordwrapping...dammit. The S9 is paired for sellphone use with my Motorola Z6m toyphone. If you go into the toyphone's BT control panel and shut down the A2DP pairing so the phone doesn't hog the stereo away from the Sony transmitter, you can pair BOTH the Sony for stereo and the Sellphone for answering calls, simultaneously, which is really neat. When a call comes in, or you press the call button to voice-activate a Sellphone call, the audio from the stereo is muted until the call hangs up, then resumes as before....just the way it should. UNfortunately, Motorola got lazy and didn't hook the Sellphone calls to BOTH earphones, so you only get phone calls in your left ear, which I think is a screwup. The new S9 model may be different. Hey, it's ONLY $49, you know! Well, if anyone's interested, it works great, here...best I've ever found. Now it doesn't matter if this device or that device is A2DP compatible. As long as it has a mini headphone jack, I gotcha covered...(c; ......even on iPhoneys! iPhone News <invalid@nospam.net> wrote in news:invalid- B428AE.19113718032008@news.giganews.com: > A new logging feature has been found in the iPhone firmware 1.2 beta > that tracks and stores the physichal location of the iPhone based on > cell tower triangulation and Wi-Fi longitude/latitude data, making it > possible to not only know where you are, but where you have been. Here's thoughtfix taking a hike from the parking lot to a geocaching site looking for the prize. http://bp3.blogger.com/_Ki_XGZxWsq4/Rq0yksiefOI/AAAAAAAABmQ/CE5C- mmMPRw/s1600-h/screenshot07.png Geocaching's great fun. Setting up Geocaching is even more fun...(c; >A new logging feature has been found in the iPhone firmware 1.2 beta > that tracks and stores the physichal location of the iPhone based on > cell tower triangulation and Wi-Fi longitude/latitude data, making it > possible to not only know where you are, but where you have been. Which, essentially, is what some e911 services have been doing since June 2003. > Which, essentially, is what some e911 services have been doing since June > 2003. Not with WiFi, though, at least not the cell carriers. However, this outfit has done it for awhile : http://www.navizon.com. They sell software that lets Wi-Fi enabled phones without GPS use cell tower and WiFi AP location simulate an onboard GPS. They get the data by "buying it" from WiFi and GPS enabled phone users. You install their logging software turn on your GPS and WiFi and it calculates tower and AP coordinates frand uploads them to their servers, crediting you with points. Every 1000 cell towers or 5000 APs logged (or weighted combination) earns you $20 deposited in your PayPal account. Navizon essentially paid for my BT GPS module while I was on vacation last summer. (My most prolific logging earned me $20 in one day's walking and driving through Manhattan! There are a LOT of WiFi APs in the city that never sleeps!) >> Which, essentially, is what some e911 services have been doing since June >> 2003. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > calculates tower and AP coordinates frand uploads them to their servers, > crediting you with points. In what little I have seen of the Google project, Google claims to use the tower horn ID and signal strength. Google reportedly is fine-tuning the process to using it to find advertisers in your vicinity. Even with the update released yesterday, location is varying from 100 to 1700 meters. A database of GPS locations by Wi-Fi would seem to be more accurate because of the smaller footprint of the Wi-Fi broadcast. When location by Wi-Fi was first invented by the kid that was in high school, I was ready to assist. But when he went to college, he got smarter by devising the basic plan of what you stated above. I was about to contribute when I realized the packets recorded contained the Wi-Fi IP usually associated with a merchant, the cellular tower horn ID and your cell number. Your proximity track is worth money to the spammers. That Hispanic spam generator in Florida is blanketing cell phones with messages only in Spanish to everyone regardless of what it cost the cell user. Complaints so far, fall on deaf ears. As a point of interest, a lipstick size GPS should be released within the next 90 days to retail from a MSRP of ~$80 USD.At least Google allows direct entry of decimal co-ordinates. |
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