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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / April 2008Replacement of PDA and phone
My wife's PDA (an ancient Palm m515) has finally gone to heaven and her RAZR v 3 phone is showing signs of senility. She is considering replacement with a "smart phone" of some type, and I might just go along as well (I use a RAZR and a Palm Tungsten C PDA which is still working OK). We have looked at several units and nothing appears to be "just right". Our impressions to date: 1. The Treo phones (using the Palm OS) are somewhat long in the tooth. The future for the Palm OS is also questionable. We like the Palm OS, but it seems to be "moving on". 2. The units running the Windows Mobile system, I am told, are slow and kludgy. 3. The Blackberry units are difficult to type on, and again, there is an OS problem. Are the operating systems interchangeable (for example, if we buy something other than a Palm-based unit, will we be able to synch all of our present Palm data onto the new unit)? 4. The Apple iPhone appears to be a nice piece of equipment, but it has several shortcomings, including having to work through iTunes, battery replacement problems, a "mediocre" phone (by report), not compatible with 3G service (I use ATT's Laptop Connect service); and it remains relatively pricey. Any thoughts from this Group? Many thanks, Bob Robert A. Fink, M. D., FACS, P. C. Neurological Surgery 2500 Milvia Street Suite 222 Berkeley, CA 94704-2636 USA 510-849-2555 "Ex Tristitia Virtus" > 4. The Apple iPhone appears to be a nice piece of equipment, but it > has several shortcomings, including having to work through iTunes, > battery replacement problems, a "mediocre" phone (by report), not > compatible with 3G service (I use ATT's Laptop Connect service); and > it remains relatively pricey. The iPhone is actually not all that pricey, but it's limited in functionality. Definitely wait for the new 3G model if going with the iPhone. The best choice is the HTC Tilt 8925 / TyTN II (Kaiser). This is far more fully featured than the iPhone, with 3G, voice-dialing, GPS, and a better OS. It's about the same price as the iPhone because you get a discount for a contract renewal. Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, SMS said: > > 4. The Apple iPhone appears to be a nice piece of equipment, but it > > has several shortcomings, including having to work through iTunes, > > battery replacement problems, a "mediocre" phone (by report), not > > compatible with 3G service (I use ATT's Laptop Connect service); and > > it remains relatively pricey. [snip iPhone] > The best choice is the HTC Tilt 8925 / TyTN II (Kaiser). This is far > more fully featured than the iPhone, with 3G, voice-dialing, GPS, and a > better OS. It's about the same price as the iPhone because you get a > discount for a contract renewal. I thought you said it had a better OS, it runs WinMob...  SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "Civilization has supplanted natural selection through legislation and medical technology. We now have people in positions of responsibility and authority who are so stupid that two hundred years ago they would have been eaten by something on their way to the outhouse." - 'Poe's Theorem of Evolution' > Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, SMS said: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I thought you said it had a better OS, it runs WinMob... I should have used a more descriptive word than "better." Windows Mobile allows you to run thousands of applications, includes Exchange support (yes I know it's being added to the iPhone soon), and lets you create and edit Office documents. It's true that the iPhone OS is more stable and its limited functionality makes it easier to learn and use. If stability and ease of use is more important than functionality, then indeed the iPhone OS is a better choice. For someone needing a true PDA, the HTC Tilt is the best choice on AT&T. For needing just a web browser, music player, and quad-band phone, but not needing PDA functionality, the iPhone is a better choice. Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, SMS said: > >> The best choice is the HTC Tilt 8925 / TyTN II (Kaiser). This is far > >> more fully featured than the iPhone, with 3G, voice-dialing, GPS, and a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Exchange support (yes I know it's being added to the iPhone soon), and > lets you create and edit Office documents. So does Palm. :) I'm currently a Palm user (Treo 680), and have been since the IIIx was top-of-the-line. My next device will probably be an iPhone, unless there is no software I want for it. I have some minimal requirements on available software that I MUST have, including a encrypted data keeper (passwords, bank account info, etc), decent calendar like DateBk6, and a few others, all self-contained and NOT a so-called "web app". Unless the next-gen iPhone, rumored to be released sometime around June, has at least 30G of storage, I'm not that interested in using it as a media player though (I have over 17G of music files), as I already have an iPod Classic. > It's true that the iPhone OS is more stable and its limited > functionality makes it easier to learn and use. If stability and ease of > use is more important than functionality, then indeed the iPhone OS is a > better choice. That statement makes me chuckle. What good is a bazilion features and programs, if the thing constantly falls over due to stability issues? Stability is Function Number 1. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "You were standing in the middle of the plaza yelling that the day of judgment was coming." "Did it?" "Not that I know, but I may have missed a staff meeting." (Mr. Garibaldi and Amis, B5 "The Long Dark") > > It's true that the iPhone OS is more stable and its limited > > functionality makes it easier to learn and use. If stability and ease of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > programs, if the thing constantly falls over due to stability issues? > Stability is Function Number 1. I disagree- functionality is function number 1, stability is number two. My old Nokia candtybar dumbphones are the most stable phones I've ever owned, but I require more than phone calls and texting. My WinMo device handles memory rather poorly- the amount of available RAM decreases throught the day requiring the occasional nightly reboot to reclaim it- that's a level of "instability" I'm more than willing to put up with in return for carrying a "laptop" in my pocket. Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Todd Allcock said: > > That statement makes me chuckle. What good is a bazilion features and > > programs, if the thing constantly falls over due to stability issues? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > My old Nokia candtybar dumbphones are the most stable phones I've ever owned, > but I require more than phone calls and texting. But if the thing constantly falls down, it's hard to use those features. > My WinMo device handles memory rather poorly- the amount of available RAM > decreases throught the day requiring the occasional nightly reboot to > reclaim it- that's a level of "instability" I'm more than willing to put up > with in return for carrying a "laptop" in my pocket. Close your apps, don't just switch out of them. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol Tips for the Innocent Bystander: 37. If mysterious strangers appear at the birth or adoption of your child and make epic proclamations about him/her, listen. > But if the thing constantly falls down, it's hard to use those > features. True- but the misconception flown by the anti-MS crowd is that these devices lock up hourly or so- that just isn't the case. Compared to a Nokia 6030, or even an iPhone or Blackberry WinMo devices can be "unstable," but it's not the handicap that's it often portrayed to be- (and I'm again referring to the more robust touchscreen devices- my wife's T- Mobile Dash- a non-touchscreen unit running very few 3rd party apps is as rock-solid as any phone I've ever used- it runs for weeks without a hitch.) > > My WinMo device handles memory rather poorly- the amount of available RAM > > decreases throught the day requiring the occasional nightly reboot to > > reclaim it- that's a level of "instability" I'm more than willing to put up > > with in return for carrying a "laptop" in my pocket. > > Close your apps, don't just switch out of them. I do that- I'm referring to "memory leaks"- memory loss caused by some 3rd party apps that somehow refuse to relinquish memory back to the OS when closed. QMail, the e-mail/NNTP client I'm typing this on now, for example, robs a meg or two each time I close it. Open it/close it a half-dozen times and I'm forced to reboot to get my "mising" 8-10 meg back. I'd get rid of it, but it's a darn useful little app I haven't found a good alternative for. > True- but the misconception flown by the anti-MS crowd is that these > devices lock up hourly or so- that just isn't the case. I don't know where that idea has come from other than deliberate muddying the field. I reboot my JAM maybe once a week when I see the memory indicator get low or whenever some application has a new version. Other than that I can't even remember when I've had to reboot because of a crash or lockup--it's been a year at least. Once I stopped testing programs and got everything loaded that I wanted it's been more stable than my XP tablet--actually a LOT more stable :-) The JAM is getting up in age though. But I don't want the new models with the keyboards--they're a *lot* thicker. I don't need a keyboard--I use a program called Fitaly that replaces the soft qwerty keyboard with one optimized for tapping with a stylus. I can easily do 30wpm with the amount of use I do--some users on their forum who do a lot more texting than I do report 70wpm. The iPhone is going to have to add quite a few applications before I venture that route. How many of these can iPhone do yet: powerful PIM application (Agenda Fusion) with features galore; configuable multi- alarm clock/stopwatch application; Word and Excel; PhatPad that allows handdrawn notes and designs to be shared between PPC and PC; MP3 recorder; configuable database; virtual wallet (passwords etc) shared with pc; RepliGo that can transfer a zoomable/readable image of *any* pc document or screen; Pocket Streets with street level map of entire DFW metroplex (with GPS if I wanted it); eReader to read novels (free and purchased); removable memory card; file syncing to/from any folder on the pc (activesync with mightysync addon). When it can do all of those I might consider it. 'Course by then HTC and others will have duplicated the touch interface... SignatureJud Dallas TX USA > That statement makes me chuckle. What good is a bazilion features and > programs, if the thing constantly falls over due to stability issues? > Stability is Function Number 1. Because it isn't "constantly," it's occasionally. A Mac is more stable than a Windows PC too, but the reason the Mac market share is so low is because buyers value functionality over stability. Of course with the ability to dual-boot Windows and OS X, you can now have a Mac with more functionality than a Windows box. > That statement makes me chuckle. What good is a bazilion features and > programs, if the thing constantly falls over due to stability issues? > Stability is Function Number 1. > No use at all. I don't understand how Micro$oft stays in business. Just think where we'd be, today, if noone bought the IBM PC and all bought Apple ][ instead! We'd be paying $5000 for a 16 bit Motorola computer with little storage and $500 every time you wanted to buy a game. >> That statement makes me chuckle. What good is a bazilion features and >> programs, if the thing constantly falls over due to stability issues? >> Stability is Function Number 1. >> > >No use at all. I don't understand how Micro$oft stays in business. Fairly simple: It just works. If you're seeing even monthly crashes on XP or Vista, you need to fix your hardware, fix your drivers (including file system filters -- AV software, I'm looking at you) > I thought you said it had a better OS, it runs WinMob... Personally I love WinMo, but it's an OS that I'd only wish on both my dearest friends and my worst enemies. It'sthe most versitile mobile OS out there, but it's finicky and requires a bit of TLC. On the one hand, there are thousands of apps for it that will allow a PDA to be essentially a full PC in terms of functionality, but in return you get a clunky device (touchscreen "brick-sized" WinMo phones are far more functional than the slimmer "smartphones" like the Moto Q) poor battery life and a bit of a learning curve. But a WinMo device can replace a laptop in ways no other phone on the market can. I rarely take a laptop on trips any more- my WinMo phone is my media player, e-mail/Outlook/internet device, and I can remote into my desktop when necessary for the rare odd task my phone can't handle. >> 4. The Apple iPhone appears to be a nice piece of equipment, but it >> has several shortcomings, including having to work through iTunes, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > a better OS. It's about the same price as the iPhone because you get a > discount for a contract renewal. I have the 8925 Tilt and use it primarily for travelling on business. It is Windows Mobile 6 based. The data rates are outstanding, people I talk to on the speakerphone report that it sounds outstanding (though the weenie speaker is prone to distortion on the listening end). On the downside, the camera sucks, and it's a touch screen PDA first, and a phone second with all the attendant user interface issues. As for using it was a PDA, it includes outlook and does that brilliantly. I've yet to pay for the software to convert over my Palm Desktop datebook into Outlook so it can sync to it, but I'm getting ready to as I start to use the phone more. Integrated GPS + Google Maps makes the Tilt a lot of fun. Being able to run wififofum on the Tilt and look for wireless access points, and log their GPS location is kinda novel. War driving in a calculator, if you're so inclined. BUT, when I'm at home, I much prefer to carry my Motorola Krzr instead of the Tilt just because the size difference, and I prefer to have an exposed keyboard on the phone and not have to slide or deal with a touch screen for dialing and hanging up, etc. The iPhone which I've also used is a far more satisfying interactive experience verus the Tilt with the speed of the display and responsiveness, and such, but its apalling lack of HSDPA data support makes it pretty worthless for tethering. Once the iPhone has integrated GPS and 3G data support though, the Tilt will feel like an also ran. If my company forces the BlackBerry Curve on me, I won't be too upset. I like its keyboard versus the Tilt in that you dont' have to Tilt it to get at it, but obviously the BlackBerry isn't nearly as flexible a device, lacks GPS, doesn't have an 802.11 radio in it, isn't as open a software platform, etc. -- Todd H. http://toddh.net/ >I've yet to pay for the software to convert over my Palm >Desktop datebook into Outlook so it can sync to it, but I'm getting >ready to as I start to use the phone more. Tell me more. If I buy an iPhone (or one of the other non-Palm devices), what do I need to do to transfer the data stored on my Palm Tungsten C to a new device? Best, Bob Robert A. Fink, M. D., FACS, P. C. Neurological Surgery 2500 Milvia Street Suite 222 Berkeley, CA 94704-2636 USA 510-849-2555 "Ex Tristitia Virtus" > >I've yet to pay for the software to convert over my Palm > >Desktop datebook into Outlook so it can sync to it, but I'm getting [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > devices), what do I need to do to transfer the data stored on my Palm > Tungsten C to a new device? Google it, there are a couple ways. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" > The iPhone which I've also used is a far more satisfying interactive > experience verus the Tilt with the speed of the display and > responsiveness, and such, but its apalling lack of HSDPA data support > makes it pretty worthless for tethering. Once the iPhone has > integrated GPS and 3G data support though, the Tilt will feel like an > also ran. Yes, when the iPhone gains a GPS, 3G, tethering, Exchange server support, and voice dialing, it'll be hard to beat (provided they also add the ability to edit and display Office documents). >> 4. The Apple iPhone appears to be a nice piece of equipment, but it >> has several shortcomings, including having to work through iTunes, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > OS. It's about the same price as the iPhone because you get a discount for > a contract renewal. Costco has the tilt, Comes with 12V cord leather case and a Bluetooth headset which was the moto rechargeable one that was selling for 79.99. The complete kit was 249.99 after rebate. Add all that to the iPhone, and the iPhone is over twice the price. > >> 4. The Apple iPhone appears to be a nice piece of equipment, but it > >> has several shortcomings, including having to work through iTunes, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > The complete kit was 249.99 after rebate. Add all that to the iPhone, and > the iPhone is over twice the price. Both are chump change compared to monthly phone/data/tax charges. You could pay that in one month's usage. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" >> >> 4. The Apple iPhone appears to be a nice piece of equipment, but it >> >> has several shortcomings, including having to work through iTunes, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Both are chump change compared to monthly phone/data/tax charges. > You could pay that in one month's usage. The Tilt uses 3G which is 30.00 a month unlimited use. Add 5.00 a moth for 200 text's if needed. He was talking about the cost of the Iphone as to the tilt being almost the same price. The Tilt is less then half the price of the Iphone and does much more the the iPhone both now and later on down the road. Even If apple were to add 3G and Microsoft apps. You can replace the battery and add more Flash mem when ever you want. > The Tilt uses 3G which is 30.00 a month unlimited use. And make that $60/mo if you want to do tethering. I paid about $300 after $100 rebate for mine, but was an early adopter. -- Todd H. http://toddh.net/ > >> >> 4. The Apple iPhone appears to be a nice piece of equipment, but it > >> >> has several shortcomings, including having to work through iTunes, [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > road. Even If apple were to add 3G and Microsoft apps. You can replace the > battery and add more Flash mem when ever you want. Yes, but the bigger picture bottom line is overall cost and the functions you need. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" >> >> >> 4. The Apple iPhone appears to be a nice piece of equipment, but it >> >> >> has several shortcomings, including having to work through iTunes, [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > Yes, but the bigger picture bottom line is overall cost and the > functions you need. Same cost for the 3G service. Iphone or Tilt. Same price for both. What does the Iphone offer that the Tilt does not ? Tilt Is cheaper the the Iphone. > >> >> >> 4. The Apple iPhone appears to be a nice piece of equipment, but it > >> >> >> has several shortcomings, including having to work through iTunes, [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > What does the Iphone offer that the Tilt does not ? Tilt Is cheaper the the > Iphone. The initial cost of buying a unit, any unit, pales in comparison to what you'll be paying to the phone company over time. Better to have something fun that you like, rather than just looking at the few dollars you might "save" going in. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" >> >> >> >> 4. The Apple iPhone appears to be a nice piece of equipment, but >> >> >> >> it [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > something fun that you like, rather than just looking at the few dollars > you might "save" going in. Iphone 3G 30.00 a month if AT&T gives the same price as all other 3G phones. Tilt " " Same price per month. A few dollars you might "save" ? Same price per month for the data. Half the price for the tilt is hardly a few bucks. > Iphone 3G 30.00 a month if AT&T gives the same price as all other 3G phones. > Tilt " [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Same price per month for the data. Half the price for the tilt is hardly a > few bucks. So your monthly cell phone bill is $30? I think not. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" >> Iphone 3G 30.00 a month if AT&T gives the same price as all other 3G >> phones. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I think not. 3G Service Is. > >> Iphone 3G 30.00 a month if AT&T gives the same price as all other 3G > >> phones. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > 3G Service Is. The point was about what a total monthly bill would be, not just the net data. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" >> Costco has the tilt, Comes with 12V cord leather case and a Bluetooth >> headset which was the moto rechargeable one that was selling for 79.99. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Both are chump change compared to monthly phone/data/tax charges. >You could pay that in one month's usage. But we are already paying for wireless phone, data, and tax charges through our current phones. And I already use AT&T Laptop Connect (3G) through my laptop. Will I have to pay double if I get a 3G phone? Best, Bob Robert A. Fink, M. D., FACS, P. C. Neurological Surgery 2500 Milvia Street Suite 222 Berkeley, CA 94704-2636 USA 510-849-2555 "Ex Tristitia Virtus" > >> Costco has the tilt, Comes with 12V cord leather case and a Bluetooth > >> headset which was the moto rechargeable one that was selling for 79.99. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > through our current phones. And I already use AT&T Laptop Connect > (3G) through my laptop. Will I have to pay double if I get a 3G phone? Seems like it would be the same. I was only using the example that $79 could easily be one month's service for someone, and for others, who are heavy users, much more. Just the point that the initial cost of buying a unit, any unit, pales in comparison to what you'll be paying to the phone company over time. Better to have something fun that you like, rather than just looking at the few dollars you might "save" going in. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" > But we are already paying for wireless phone, data, and tax charges > through our current phones. And I already use AT&T Laptop Connect > (3G) through my laptop. Will I have to pay double if I get a 3G phone? AT&T charges $30/month for "unlimited" smartphone/PDA phone data, regardless of the phone's data speed. It's $60/month if you want to tether a laptop to it, so you might be able to save a few bucks by dropping your laptop connect line and just tethering the laptop to the Tilt ($60/month for tethered data would be cheaper than $30 for on-phone data plus $60 for the laptop card.) As far as your other question on the thread; transferring the Palm contacts/calendar to the new phone, does your Tungsten have bluetooth? You could simply transfer them to the new phone via BT, then sync from the Tilt to Outlook, and avoid the need for any type of Palm Desktop-to-Outlook utility. >As far as your other question on the thread; transferring the Palm >contacts/calendar to the new phone, does your Tungsten have bluetooth? You >could simply transfer them to the new phone via BT, then sync from the Tilt >to Outlook, and avoid the need for any type of Palm Desktop-to-Outlook >utility. I do not use Outlook as a mailer. I use Pegasus Mail, which is also a POP3 client. Will that make a difference? Best, Bob Robert A. Fink, M. D., FACS, P. C. Neurological Surgery 2500 Milvia Street Suite 222 Berkeley, CA 94704-2636 USA 510-849-2555 "Ex Tristitia Virtus" Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Robert A. Fink, M. D. said: > >As far as your other question on the thread; transferring the Palm > >contacts/calendar to the new phone, does your Tungsten have bluetooth? You [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I do not use Outlook as a mailer. I use Pegasus Mail, which is also a > POP3 client. Will that make a difference? I believe the context was for PIM data, not email. The Tilt, being a WinMob device, will natively sync the calendar, contacts, notes and tasks to Outlook. Several years ago, I switched to using Outlook for my desktop PIM from the Palm Desktop because I needed the address book synchronization with Word. I find it to be much more functional than the Palm Desktop, and the only reason I even bother to install Palm Desktop on my systems is so I can sync my Treo at all. I do not use Outlook for anything else, and therefore have never set up its online features. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol Tips for the Innocent Bystander: 37. If mysterious strangers appear at the birth or adoption of your child and make epic proclamations about him/her, listen. > On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:26:50 -0600, Todd Allcock > >As far as your other question on the thread; transferring the Palm > >contacts/calendar to the new phone, does your Tungsten have bluetooth? You [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I do not use Outlook as a mailer. I use Pegasus Mail, which is also a > POP3 client. Will that make a difference? Sort of- Windows Mobile phones only support PIM synchin it Outlook. There's no Microsoft equivalent to "Palm Desktop." You can certainly receive your POP e-mail with any e-mail program of your choice, but backing up your calendar and contacts info on the PC requires Outlook. As an alternative, you can use a free Exchange account at mail2web.com, and use it's included OWA (Outlook Web Access) function, which is essentially "Outlook in a browser window." > >As far as your other question on the thread; transferring the Palm > >contacts/calendar to the new phone, does your Tungsten have bluetooth? You [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I do not use Outlook as a mailer. I use Pegasus Mail, which is also a > POP3 client. Will that make a difference? I have 3 POP email accounts on my iPhone. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" > > I do not use Outlook as a mailer. I use Pegasus Mail, which is also a > > POP3 client. Will that make a difference? > > > I have 3 POP email accounts on my iPhone. This is also probably a good time to suggest to the good Doctor that he consider IMAP instead of POP for e-mail, regardless of what smartphone he eventually chooses. IMAP is much easier to deal with when using multiple devices withthe same e- mail account(s), since changes made on one device (deletions, marking e- mail as read, etc.) are reflected on all devices, eliminating the need the deal with the same e-mail twice. > > > I do not use Outlook as a mailer. I use Pegasus Mail, which is also a > > > POP3 client. Will that make a difference? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > mail as read, etc.) are reflected on all devices, eliminating the need the > deal with the same e-mail twice. But iPhone is too easy. Maybe other phones... Some email services also still do not support IMAP. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" > > IMAP is much easier to deal with when using multiple devices withthe same e- > > mail account(s), since changes made on one device (deletions, marking e- > > mail as read, etc.) are reflected on all devices, eliminating the need the > > deal with the same e-mail twice. > > But iPhone is too easy. Maybe other phones... What does that mean? If you delete a POP e-mail on your iPhone are you saying the deletion magically propagates to your desktop? A POP e-mail read on the iPhone is marked read on the desktop? With IMAP, sure (just like with any other device with IMAP support)- with POP? Nope. POP is hampered by design- it's from a day when people had one computer and phones were bolted to walls. You pull the e-mail from the server and can either leave a copy behind or not. That generally means dealing with the same e-mails (at least) twice, since mobile devices are usually set to leave a copy behind so your desktop can access all your e-mail. So, any e- mails read or deleted on the mobile, are still waiting for you on your desktop. With IMAP, if you delete a bunch of e-mails on your phone, they WON'T be waiting on your desktop to be read (and deleted) again. E-mails read on the mobile will already be marked read on the desktop. If you use a variety of desktops, laptops, and mobiles with the same e-mail accounts, IMAP makes life a lot easier. > Some email services also > still do not support IMAP. True. A perfectly good reason to change e-mail providers, IMO. ;-) > > > IMAP is much easier to deal with when using multiple devices withthe > same e- [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > read on the iPhone is marked read on the desktop? With IMAP, sure (just > like with any other device with IMAP support)- with POP? Nope. > With IMAP, if you delete a bunch of e-mails on your phone, they WON'T be > waiting on your desktop to be read (and deleted) again. E-mails read on > the mobile will already be marked read on the desktop. If you use a > variety of desktops, laptops, and mobiles with the same e-mail accounts, > IMAP makes life a lot easier. Not a big amount, but I will agree thjat for some people, this makes more sense. I need to have most of my emails archived on my main machine, so this is not an issue. I also have many email accounts. Most don't go traveling with me. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" >What does that mean? If you delete a POP e-mail on your iPhone are you >saying the deletion magically propagates to your desktop? A POP e-mail >read on the iPhone is marked read on the desktop? With IMAP, sure (just >like with any other device with IMAP support)- with POP? Nope. When I read a piece of POP3 mail, I either save it to a folder or delete it from the server. Therefore, it is deleted and will not show up on the phone if I have read it on the computer, or vice versa. Correct? Best, Bob Robert A. Fink, M. D., FACS, P. C. Neurological Surgery 2500 Milvia Street Suite 222 Berkeley, CA 94704-2636 USA 510-849-2555 "Ex Tristitia Virtus" >>What does that mean? If you delete a POP e-mail on your iPhone are you >>saying the deletion magically propagates to your desktop? A POP e-mail [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > "Ex Tristitia Virtus" Depends on which device checks the email first, and if that device is set to tell your pop3 server to delete the message off the server when checking that pop3 server. I've set mine to not delete from my phone. But delete from the home system. >I've set mine to not delete from my phone. But delete from the home system. Does the iPhone allow for such "selective" deletion? Pegasus Mail (on my desktop and laptops) allows for such. Best, Bob Robert A. Fink, M. D., FACS, P. C. Neurological Surgery 2500 Milvia Street Suite 222 Berkeley, CA 94704-2636 USA 510-849-2555 "Ex Tristitia Virtus" >>I've set mine to not delete from my phone. But delete from the home >>system. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > "Ex Tristitia Virtus" Don't know as I don't have a iPhone. ; ) >> Does the iPhone allow for such "selective" deletion? Pegasus Mail (on >> my desktop and laptops) allows for such. >> >> Best, >> >> Bob Dr Bob, Just for reference, Pegasus responds very well to Remote Desktop operation. I use it here to my Nokia N800 Linux tablet over Remote desktop, even over the sellphone link, every day. You can leave Pegasus running continuously, logon to remote desktop to your laptop, tablet, your office PC with your IP/username/password and have full control of Pegasus from the remote location. Works great, no syncing, no sellphone funny business, no multiple storage confusion. If a large file comes in, say some media or document or presentation, Remote Desktop can be setup so the remote device, whatever it is, can act like an external hard drive, straight from Windows Explorer on the home desktop, for example. Simply click and drag the object to the remote devices storage of your choice and remote desktop will copy it there for your use....without destroying the master copy safely stored on your main PC. Iphone doesn't have remote desktop, but your laptop or office desktop already does. If you must carry it, I recommend the Nokia N800 $230 with a free rdesktop from maemo.org's download section. Tons of very useful software, all free. Real word processing with an external bluetooth keyboard made to type on, real spreadsheets, several databases and other useful tools already for use on it. Got special medical software on the main PC? Remote desktop can operate it from anyplace on the net. Ask your local IT or hacker to help you set it up on your existing units. Once configured, the only thing it won't do is run video/audio to the remote. For that, you download the media and play it on the remote locally. Most users have no idea it's already included on their Windows, MAC desktops and laptops. There's no need to rent an external service to use it. If you can call up those Xrays of Mr Jones on your home PC, you can view them from your laptop or internet tablet via remote desktop. Wouldn't that be handier for your application? >>> Does the iPhone allow for such "selective" deletion? Pegasus Mail >(on [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >them from your laptop or internet tablet via remote desktop. Wouldn't >that be handier for your application? Fascinating. Many thanks Best, Bob Robert A. Fink, M. D., FACS, P. C. Neurological Surgery 2500 Milvia Street Suite 222 Berkeley, CA 94704-2636 USA 510-849-2555 "Ex Tristitia Virtus" > Fascinating. Many thanks Quite welcome. I'm on remote desktop from an Italian restaurant, tonight, using my Nokia N800 Linux tablet and Bluetooth keyboard over the free wifi Pizza Roma provides with my Stromboli. Great food and broadband...great combination. Ah, my Boddington's English Ale has arrived...excuse me... > > Fascinating. Many thanks > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Ah, my Boddington's English Ale has arrived...excuse me... Oh great, I'll bet the table next to you is either laughing their a.ses off or pissed off at the scene you are making. Welcome to Nerdville at it's worst. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" Kurt <labolide@spacegmail.com> wrote in news:labolide-7716B7.17332304042008 @news.giganews.com: > Oh great, I'll bet the table next to you is either laughing their a.ses > off or pissed off at the scene you are making. > Welcome to Nerdville at it's worst. Nope. Everyone was laughing at the two crazy Australian TV commercials I had on the 16GB external SD card... The owner always comes by to see what new toys I have on the tablet and to trade his cooking for my laptop expertise. I'm the reason for the free wifi in his shop....a sales tool for us nerds, who also like Italian cuisine mixed with beer. Sorry you're so down on nerds. Why do you read usenet if you hate nerds?? > Kurt <labolide@spacegmail.com> wrote in news:labolide-7716B7.17332304042008 > @news.giganews.com: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Sorry you're so down on nerds. Why do you read usenet if you hate nerds?? I love nerds. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" > > Quite welcome. I'm on remote desktop from an Italian restaurant, > > tonight, using my Nokia N800 Linux tablet and Bluetooth keyboard over [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > off or pissed off at the scene you are making. > Welcome to Nerdville at it's worst. How is Larry any different than the collection of people banging away on a laptop in every Starbucks or Panera Bread accross the country, except his equipment is smaller and less intrusive? Why would this pizza place offer free WiFi if they didn't expect it's patrons to use it? Besides, we should be encouraging Larry to seek nourishment outside of the "World's Leading Server of Raisin Toast (tm)." > Besides, we should be encouraging Larry to seek nourishment outside of > the "World's Leading Server of Raisin Toast (tm)." Hmm....good idea.....Buttermilk Waffles...... bye bye....(c; > >I've set mine to not delete from my phone. But delete from the home system. > > Does the iPhone allow for such "selective" deletion? Pegasus Mail (on > my desktop and laptops) allows for such. iPhone has setting to allow you to delete from server or not. I keep mine to never. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" > When I read a piece of POP3 mail, I either save it to a folder or > delete it from the server. Therefore, it is deleted and will not show > up on the phone if I have read it on the computer, or vice versa. > > Correct? This explains it better than I ever could: http://www.imap.org/imap.vs.pop.brief.html, but essentially each device keeps track of what POP mail it's downloaded but no device knows what the others have done. (Having said that, however, some "POP" services, like GMail or AOL, don't follow the POP protocol and therefore don't play by the rules- they just act like POP services to allow access by POP e-mail clients.) >> When I read a piece of POP3 mail, I either save it to a folder or >> delete it from the server. Therefore, it is deleted and will not show [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > follow the POP protocol and therefore don't play by the rules- they just > act like POP services to allow access by POP e-mail clients.) If you have outlook checking your pop mail and have the setting to leave it on the server it wont get deleted. Have it checked with it to remove it from the server and it will. That's why I said it depends on how it's setup in software and which one checks it 1st. > (Having said that, however, some "POP" services, like GMail or AOL, > don't follow the POP protocol and therefore don't play by the rules- > they just act like POP services to allow access by POP e-mail > clients.) As an FYI Gmail does IMAP now. I use it to poll and converge all of my POP3 accounts, placing them into proper categories. SignatureMike > As an FYI Gmail does IMAP now. I use it to poll and converge all of my POP3 > accounts, placing them into proper categories. Yeah, I Changed my GMail setup from POP to IMAP on my phone a few months ago. Retrieval with POP was a little faster, but the ability to manipulate the folders is an advantage that makes IMAP worth the slight speed hit. Many e-mail providers support both POP and IMAP retrieval, and since IMAP is far more suitable for multi-device access to e-mail, there are very few reasons to stick with POP unless, perhaps, you're still on dialup, and POP's quicker retrieval speed is an issue. Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:fsvbfk$5hq$1 @aioe.org: >> When I read a piece of POP3 mail, I either save it to a folder or >> delete it from the server. Therefore, it is deleted and will not show [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > follow the POP protocol and therefore don't play by the rules- they just > act like POP services to allow access by POP e-mail clients.) None of this would be an issue if you boys had a working SSH remote desktop. I only use one email client, the one in my office on real broadband. I access it from this tablet, like I'm doing sending this message, from anywhere on the planet over remote desktop, either from my N800 Linux tablet or my laptop. All storage is done safely on my UPS-backed office system so I only have one database of traffic to contend with....no syncing, no trying to figure out where the message went, no losing it over the sellphone system. When I store it, it's stored right where it should be, in the office RAID array where it's easy to find. When you send a file/photo/video to someone, it goes out of the office system at cable speed, not out of the portable slow as a turtle. If someone sends me a big file, it takes no space from the portable device memory to store, and doesn't suck up battery time waiting and waiting for the slow sellphone downloads to kill the battery. It simply works better....and the email system at the office downloads every hour so I have no wait time at all. It's there when I call, large files, huge pictures and all. I finally got the interfacing between rdesktop on the Linux tablet and Remote Desktop on the WinXP-SP2 box working so I can move files between them over the same link, which is really cool....albeit slow if the link is sellular, not wifi. The tablet's memory cards now show up in Windows Explorer when I'm connected over rdesktop just as if it were a USB hard drive plugged into the hub. Remote Desktop is the way to fly. Iphone users will even believe you have WinXP running on the Linux tablet when it's connected....(c; The look on their faces seeing Google Earth on the tablet is PRICELESS... There's a feature iPhone could use.....remote desktop! > None of this would be an issue if you boys had a working SSH remote > desktop. This boy does. But why in God's name would I fire up a cumbersome remote terminal access program just to check e-mail? My phone's e-mail client grabs e-mail periodically so it's already downloaded and waiting for me when I want to check it. I guarantee that regardless of how fast you can make a remote connection, I'll have access faster, since it's ready there. > I only use one email client, the one in my office on real broadband. I > access it from this tablet, like I'm doing sending this message, from [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > system. When I store it, it's stored right where it should be, in the > office RAID array where it's easy to find. Or you could just use IMAP, which handles it all for you. > There's a feature iPhone could use.....remote desktop! Agreed, but not for checking e-mail! > This boy does. But why in God's name would I fire up a cumbersome > remote terminal access program just to check e-mail? My phone's > e-mail client grabs e-mail periodically so it's already downloaded and > waiting for me when I want to check it. I guarantee that regardless > of how fast you can make a remote connection, I'll have access faster, > since it's ready there. Ok by me. But, my emails have some pretty big attachments. Where do you put them? How do you get them from the phone to the computer, download them again off the server? That time must also be included. The remote terminal is far from "cumbersome" on wifi, and not really bad on EVDO. rdesktop is optimized to minimize bandwidth usage. it only updates what needs updating. It's not a video shot of the screen, but you knew that. The only drawback is the 500-800ms latency of the Sellphone data links, but I'll live with that until the Wimax rollout. > Ok by me. But, my emails have some pretty big attachments. Where do you > put them? I set the e-mail client on my phone not to automatically download attachments over 100kb (then I choose whether to download them if needed.) > How do you get them from the phone to the computer, download > them again off the server? That time must also be included. IMAP is server based- since my PC has broadband, it looks at the IMAP server continually, and downloads and archives whatever makes it through the spam filters. > The remote terminal is far from "cumbersome" on wifi, and not really bad on > EVDO. rdesktop is optimized to minimize bandwidth usage. it only updates > what needs updating. It's not a video shot of the screen, but you knew > that. The only drawback is the 500-800ms latency of the Sellphone data > links, but I'll live with that until the Wimax rollout. Whatever works for you, I guess. Remote desktop to keep on top of your e- mail seems like using a jackhammer to drive a finishing nail, but that's just me... Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Larry said: > I only use one email client, the one in my office on real broadband. I > access it from this tablet, like I'm doing sending this message, from [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > one database of traffic to contend with....no syncing, no trying to > figure out where the message went, no losing it over the sellphone Learn to spell, it's "cellphone", not "sellphone". If you don't like what they're selling, don't buy it. > When you send a file/photo/video to someone, it goes out of the office > system at cable speed, not out of the portable slow as a turtle. If Where is the file/photo/video that you're sending? If it's on your local device, it will go out at whatever speed YOU are currently using. If that's your CELLphone connected item, then it will go at your CELLphone's speed, not your office broadband speed. > someone sends me a big file, it takes no space from the portable device > memory to store, and doesn't suck up battery time waiting and waiting > for the slow sellphone downloads to kill the battery. It simply works Wrong again. If you are viewing it on your CELLphone device, it will take as long as your CELLphone network takes to pass the info on to you. You're using your office system as a server. It's not the server's speed that dictates how long it takes to retrieve and view something, it's the speed of the client, which is whatever you're using at the moment. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "Oh, for the record if they kill me, this was not a good idea on my part." (Marcus Cole, B5 "Exogenesis") > Learn to spell, it's "cellphone", not "sellphone". If you don't like > what they're selling, don't buy it. Nope...it's STILL a SELLphone....a box office device to rent you stuff in your pocket....just like your new digital TV box office device is.... Why does my little updated description upset you so? I don't like what they're selling and I don't buy what I don't like. I buy basic phone service and internet data. I don't buy games/ringtones/Selltop/Axcess apps or glitz. I wish the damned thing was butt ugly so the black market wouldn't target it as a stealable gadget every time you turn your back on it. I told them I'd buy MobiTV (Axcess TV, 25 channels on Alltel) IF they'd fix the software so it had a FULL SCREEN landscape mode....not that shitty little fingernail-sized picture they're selling now for $12/mo. I think it has some value that interests me...if I could SEE the picture. But they don't, so I don't.... Wanna buy something on your Sellphone??.....(c; Maybe what you need is some company-controlled web forum where never a discouraging word is uttered.....eh? Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Larry said: > > Learn to spell, it's "cellphone", not "sellphone". If you don't like > > what they're selling, don't buy it. > Why does my little updated description upset you so? Because it's childish. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "Oh, for the record if they kill me, this was not a good idea on my part." (Marcus Cole, B5 "Exogenesis") >>> Costco has the tilt, Comes with 12V cord leather case and a Bluetooth >>> headset which was the moto rechargeable one that was selling for 79.99. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > through our current phones. And I already use AT&T Laptop Connect > (3G) through my laptop. Will I have to pay double if I get a 3G phone? That's an interesting question that probably only AT&T can answer. Be sure to phrase the question to them perfectly clearly so you can get an accurate answer, i.e., "sometimes I want to use laptop 3G, and sometimes I want to use 3G on the phone, but I don't want to pay twice." I suspect that the answer will be that you have to pay double, because both devices could be used simultaneously. If you were doing tethering of the laptop through the 3G phone, rather than using the laptop connect card, then you would only pay once. >>>> 4. The Apple iPhone appears to be a nice piece of equipment, but it >>>> has several shortcomings, including having to work through iTunes, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Both are chump change compared to monthly phone/data/tax charges. > You could pay that in one month's usage. I also saw the unlocked Tilt at Costco, and it was about $700. > My wife's PDA (an ancient Palm m515) has finally gone to heaven and > her RAZR v 3 phone is showing signs of senility. She is considering [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Any thoughts from this Group? I went from a Treo 650 to an iPhone and never looked back. I use the WiFi for data much more that I do the phone data connection. Have found data speed to be fine for web browsing and email. Going through iTunes is so much easier than the old Palm Desktop, especially when you factor in that you get regular system updates through it. Also syncs nicely (with no additional software) Entourage. It was a breeze to convert my Palm contacts into Entourage and then sync all with the iPhone. There are a couple ways to to do this. Keyboard (when you need it) is nice and big. Spellchecker function is cool. Big screen and enlargement function make web browsing practical. Had mine since last July and battery is fine. Charges quickly. Bottom line, much more fun and intuitive to use. My wife was so happy to get a phone where she could actually use all the functions. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" I have a Treo with Windows Mobile and I love it. It took me some time to adjust from my old treo with Palm system but now I am glad I did. Palm is still very available on the net for very cheap if not free software where Win Mobile does cost a bit more is does not have as much available. I am a computer geek so I want as much flexability as possible, you may not. Palm will phase out in time but I think it will be a long time. Blackberry's are great devices for email but are very limited on software. Besides you pay extra for BB data services, not cheap either. All PDA phones will sync with MS Outlook even if it is a palm device. Some even sync with Lotus but read up on your model selection before purchase. Many providers do offer a 30 day exchange or refund so play with your new pda alot during that time to see if it fits your needs. Hope this helped. Good Luck. > My wife's PDA (an ancient Palm m515) has finally gone to heaven and > her RAZR v 3 phone is showing signs of senility. She is considering [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > "Ex Tristitia Virtus" |
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