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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / April 2008Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it
The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several locations around the world. The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone. The only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop charger or a mobile charger almost all the time. I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008. Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick a.s wireless phone not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office. > The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several > locations around the world. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick a.s wireless phone > not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office. You'll have to have a Bat Belt to lug everything around. OTOH, since that thing sucks so much, maybe apple can figure a way for it to suck power from thin air.  Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008. Eh, they could just put a larger back on it and use a bigger battery. Surprised they haven't done this already. It'd at least shut up one huge group of whiners constantly bitching about the non-replaceable one in there now. Of course such a change would likely incur the need for new FCC testing. > The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several > locations around the world. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick a.s wireless phone > not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office. Ugh. I feel like we're playing role reversal because _I'm_ defending the iPhone! It's April, not June. Not only does Apple has time to iron it out, but also expectations may have to be adjusted for this device. Yes, I know the iPhone v1 has a good battery life for a smartphone, but frankly a fully- featured phone only really needs to make it through ONE DAY of use. With push-e-mail and bluetooth enabled, and maybe an hour to two of WiFi, my WinMo phone will start begging for a charge (literally, with on-screen pop- ups!) after 14-16 hours. And that's fine- I charge it overnight and it's good to go the next day. Sure I wish it only needed to be charged once a week like my old Nokia candy-bar with B&W display and no GPRS, but if you want high-powered features, the phone is going to swallow some battery power. If it can run from 6AM to 10PM on a single charge, with a few hours of iPod and browsing use that'll be good enough. Apple might design a slick phone with a great UI, but they're bound by the same laws of physics as every other manufacturer- it's unrealistic to expect Apple to somehow eek 3 times the battery life out of their phone than their competitors can! For those who need ubiquitous high-speed data, it's worth the tradeoff. For those that don't, they can stick with iPhone V1, or turn 3G off... >> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several >> locations around the world. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > tradeoff. For those that don't, they can stick with iPhone V1, or turn > 3G off... One thing to keep in mind. While your point about making it through a day is valid, another piece of the equation comes into play.With most of the smartphone market, you would be fine recharging every night, because once the battery started losing its mojo, you just go out an buy another one and pop it in. With the iPhone it won't be that easy, and if you are recharging it every nigh you'll be looking at a battery replacement every 9-10 months. >>> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several >>> locations around the world. [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > recharging it every nigh you'll be looking at a battery replacement every > 9-10 months. Just make sure you get it replaced within the 1yr coverage. After that it's approx 90.00 The apple website says it's 79.00 to replace it but add approx 10.00 for shipping and insurance. Way to much for a 15.00 battery IMO... > One thing to keep in mind. While your point about making it through a day > is valid, another piece of the equation comes into play.With most of the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > recharging it every nigh you'll be looking at a battery replacement every > 9-10 months. Good point- despite the "500+" recharge cycles a typical Li-Ion is supposedly capable of, I find them to be noticeably weaker after a year of daily charging. My 26-month old HTC Wizard just got it's 3rd battery recently. While the batteries I'm no loger using weren't totally spent, they fell below the "make it through a 16-hour day" threshold I require to consider them useable. > Good point- despite the "500+" recharge cycles a typical Li-Ion is > supposedly capable of, I find them to be noticeably weaker after a > year of daily charging. My 26-month old HTC Wizard just got it's 3rd > battery recently. While the batteries I'm no loger using weren't > totally spent, they fell below the "make it through a 16-hour day" > threshold I require to consider them useable. Here's yet ANOTHER legacy from the old Ni-Cd days. Li-Ion batteries only discharged half way, then immediately recharged ASAP, will cycle nearly indefinately, far longer than the life of the devices they are in! There is no old Ni-Cd 500 recharge cycles on Li-Ion batteries. How long they run is totally dependent upon how they are treated by the users and how much load heating the engineers put upon them in their device design. Buy two identical devices powered by the same size Li-Ion batteries. Run one of them like a Sellphone braggart, running it for days until it's dead, then recharging it "when I get around to it". Run the other one by plugging it into its charger every chance you get, never leaving it in a discharged state for any length of time. Test it for yourselves. Li-Ion batteries are FLOAT batteries that LOVE to be immediately recharged from ANY state of discharge. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Your daily charging is very admirable. But, there's another dark side to Li-Ion battery maintenance.... Inside every Li-Ion is a special IC timer that prevents you from really killing the battery pack below about 50% of its REAL capacity because deep cycling them simply destroys them. A 1000 mAh battery pack has a 2000 mAh set of cells in it. During the discharge cycle, the timer measures the load current and acts as an amp-hour meter like the one on the side of your house that runs both up and down....down during use, up during recharge. UNfortunately, the battery pack ISN'T following the IC's charge state curve, exactly. Over time, several months of constant cycling, the IC's idea of what's charged and discharged gets out of sync with battery reality. Lucky for the battery it moves DOWN the real curve, not up into the overcharge range. Li-Ion batteries must NEVER be overcharged or they EXPLODE FORCEFULLY. (See Dell's exploding laptops for demo) This IC prevents that. So, your device's charge point goes down, when the IC cuts off the charging prematurely from reality....and it's discharged point goes up, with the IC cutting off the device to save the battery way earlier than necessary. You observe, correctly, the battery doesn't run as long as it used to. The solution is to cycle it hard just ONCE to reset the IC, which has an algorithm built into it just for this purpose. About every 3-4 months, run the device until the IC absolutely refuses to run any more. Even cycling it AFTER the IC cuts it off the first few times is even better. After the IC shuts it down, wait 10 minutes and power the device back up until the IC shuts it down again, a further discharge. DO NOT LEAVE IT DISCHARGED LIKE THIS FOR MORE THAN 10 MINUTES as it damages the battery's crazy chemistry. When the IC refuses to let the device come on any more, even for a minute, IMMEDIATELY plug the device into its charger and LEAVE IT PLUGGED IN OVERNIGHT to get a full recharge. Test the battery run time and you'll find it has been restored, saving you $20 from the net or $90 at your Sellphone company for exactly the same battery. Li-Ions properly treated and RECHARGED IMMEDIATELY as soon as you can recharge it, last for years! DON'T DO THE IC RESET ABOVE ANY MORE THAN IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO RESTORE RUNTIME. The less you do it, the longer the battery will last. It costs you every time you do the reset, so don't make it a regular habit until it really needs it! Oh, and NEVER STORE A PREVIOUSLY CHARGED LI-ION BATTERY! If you have spare batteries, SWAP THEM WITH THE DEVICE OFTEN! They have a very high self-discharge rate and will simply destroy themselves sitting in your drawer! I swap out the batteries at least once a week. DO NOT COME HOME, SWAP OUT THE CURRENT BATTERY FOR THE OTHER BATTERY....BEFORE YOU FULLY RECHARGE THE CURRENT BATTERY, leaving it in a stored DISCHARGED state! No, no, no....do the swapout ONLY after the battery that's currently being run is FULLY RECHARGED, FIRST, then pull it and put in the battery out of the drawer, FULLY RECHARGING IT NEXT before you use it. You can never recharge them TOO OFTEN. > Here's yet ANOTHER legacy from the old Ni-Cd days. Li-Ion batteries > only discharged half way, then immediately recharged ASAP, will cycle [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > users and how much load heating the engineers put upon them in their > device design. I was referring to deep discharges- I thought the limit was 300-500, but I could easily be confusing the number with the recharge limit of older battery types. > Test it for yourselves. Li-Ion batteries are FLOAT batteries that LOVE > to be immediately recharged from ANY state of discharge. I try to recharge mid-day when possible/convenient, but frankly, I'm simply not going to let a $15 battery run my life. If abusing the sucker costs me $15/year, so be it. Rather that than turn my cellphone into a "corded phone!" ;-) > I was referring to deep discharges- I thought the limit was 300-500, but I > could easily be confusing the number with the recharge limit of older > battery types. Li-Po batteries can have about 500 complete discharge cycles, Li-Ion about 1000. But they last much longer if not completely discharged. > I try to recharge mid-day when possible/convenient, but frankly, I'm simply > not going to let a $15 battery run my life. If abusing the sucker costs me > $15/year, so be it. Rather that than turn my cellphone into a "corded > phone!" ;-) The typical use pattern of cell phones, digital cameras, notebook computers, etc., favors lithium based batteries. > The typical use pattern of cell phones, digital cameras, notebook > computers, etc., favors lithium based batteries. Certainly- unfortunately, my WinMo phone favors a portable Honda gasoline powered generator... ;-) >> The typical use pattern of cell phones, digital cameras, notebook >> computers, etc., favors lithium based batteries. > > Certainly- unfortunately, my WinMo phone favors a portable Honda > gasoline powered generator... ;-) My I recommend the EU1000i or EU3000is. I own both...(c; http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu3000is.htm http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu1000.htm Here's the special new iPhone model: http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu6500is.htm There's a special iPhone mount that fits that bar between the handle bars...(c; I was going to "upgrade" to the 6500 watt model, but because I have so much free vegoil fuel I run in my diesel truck and cars I elected to go with a diesel I could convert for the house. We had no power for nearly 4 MONTHS after Hurricane Hugo in 1989, here, and I swore I would NEVER sit in the dark, again.....and I won't. But, as we drift offtopic, as usual....(c; > My I recommend the EU1000i or EU3000is. I own both...(c; > http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu3000is.htm > http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu1000.htm My brother-in-law bought the 1000's 800-watt predecessor in 1999 because, despite my ridicule of him, he bought into the Y2K hysteria. (Frankly, I think he was secretly hoping the world was going to go "Jericho" just to have a use for all of the outdoor and survival gear he'd been buying over the years!) While we're off topic, my wife and I invited him and his future wife to our place Y2K Eve (he brought the generator and a gun, "just in case...") and to f--k with his head, I rigged the TV's and stereo's outlets and all of the 1st floor lights with those X-10 remote control power modules. (I was an X-10 "Smarthome" distributor then, and fortunately for the gag, I lived in a very old lake house at that time with few overhead light fixtures, so most of the lighting was from floor lamps and swag lamps, making the gag plug-and-play without having to install any remote-controlled wall switches that I wasn't already using anyway.) As you can guess, as Dick Clark counted us down to oblivion I got ready, and when the ball dropped, I hit the remote in my pocket and plunged the whole floor into silence and darkness! I think the loud "click" of a dozen X-10 relays firing as the "world" came to an end probably added to the effect! ;-) It took him a good 10 seconds of panic (or glee- I'm still not sure which!) to realize the streetlights, neighbors' houses and even a hallway light upstairs in my house had still had power before he realized it was a gag. [engaging snicker mode] With a brother-in-law like you, who needs John Navass? [/snicker mode] But that was a cool gag...kudos to ya. > My brother-in-law bought the 1000's 800-watt predecessor in 1999 > because, despite my ridicule of him, he bought into the Y2K hysteria. > (Frankly, I think > he was secretly hoping the world was going to go "Jericho" just to > have a use for all of the outdoor and survival gear he'd been buying > over the years!) Great gag! Love it! Too bad he won't be around in 2150 when the Earth moves SMOOTHLY, in the procession of the equinox, from the Age of Pisces the two fish into the Age of Aquarius, the water bearer....without the mysterious religious bullshit used to keep believers in line and the money flowing in that the world will suddenly end it's brief 6000 year history in some kind of "flash", leaving believers cars abandoned right in the middle of the roads. Have some interesting research..... Every time you see a Jesus fish on the back of someone's gas guzzler, make an effort to get them to explain what the fish is all about. Only a tiny fraction will know the astrological signs of the Zodiac and current Zodiacal age of Two Fish is what it means..... 110,000,000 American nuts are gonna be awfully disappointed....and may rise up and kill a few preachers, making it a positive outcome after all.... > Too bad he won't be around in 2150 when the Earth moves SMOOTHLY, in the > procession of the equinox, from the Age of Pisces the two fish into the Age > of Aquarius, the water bearer....without the mysterious religious bullshit > used to keep believers in line and the money flowing in that the world will > suddenly end it's brief 6000 year history in some kind of "flash", leaving > believers cars abandoned right in the middle of the roads. I'm sorry we'll miss it. As a fellow non-believer, you and I will miss the opportunity to upgrade our rides when the true believers all disappear... ;-) > 110,000,000 American nuts are gonna be awfully disappointed....and may rise > up and kill a few preachers, making it a positive outcome after all.... Nahh, they'll just say they got the dates wrong, like Herbert Armstrong who promised us the world would end in 1970! > I'm sorry we'll miss it. As a fellow non-believer, you and I will > miss the opportunity to upgrade our rides when the true believers all > disappear... ;-) I wanted the preacher's new S class Mercedes.....dammit. Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:fuocre$b67$1 @aioe.org: > Nahh, they'll just say they got the dates wrong, like Herbert Armstrong > who promised us the world would end in 1970! Remember when Oral Roberts said if I didn't send him a million dollars "god" was gonna "recall" him? .....and they all sent in everything they could, even if the kids went without new shoes..... I found out inspecting my father's bank accounts after he died the reason he was always broke was he was sending a check EVERY WEEK to the billionaires at Crystal Cathedral in Ft Lauderdale because they asked him to! I figured there was some reason I was not allowed to look into his financial situation, but this was a shock. He never went to church in his life that I knew of.... On 4/23/08 7:16 PM, in article Xns9A89CF51035C6noonehomecom@208.49.80.253, > Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:fuocre$b67$1 > @aioe.org: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > financial situation, but this was a shock. He never went to church in his > life that I knew of.... And you just keep revealing yourself. Explains a lot... Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:fumi3c$fjt$3 @aioe.org: > I rigged the TV's and stereo's outlets and all of > the 1st floor lights with those X-10 remote control power modules. We had very cute apprentice trainees in our calibration lab at Charleston Naval Shipyard and took great delight in pulling gags like this on them. I remember one particularly great gag which involved plugging a sweet thang's workbench into a thermal christmas tree blinker during her lunch break. All afternoon, her bench power went on...and off....and on....and off, how fast depending on what load was put on it. She was a very independent type and always refused anyone who wanted to help her learn new electronic ideas or help her solve problems. After discovering her independence, most everyone in the shop simply let her alone. It was all we could do to keep from rolling on the floor watching her bench going on and off and Miss Independence NEVER SAYING A WORD about it all afternoon. Quitting time came, she packed up her stuff and left right on time as usual. After she'd gone, we took the blinker out of her power strip and noone ever mentioned it again. Next morning, her bench ran perfect and she never said a word. PRICELESS.....(c; Did you ever pull the gas mileage tricks on some braggart telling your group the fantastic gas mileage his new car or truck got? On 4/23/08 12:43 PM, in article Xns9A898DCA7E207noonehomecom@208.49.80.253, > Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:fumi3c$fjt$3 > @aioe.org: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Did you ever pull the gas mileage tricks on some braggart telling your > group the fantastic gas mileage his new car or truck got? And you were *how* old when you did this little gig? Speaks abundantly about your maturity. Hope you don't find a mate and reproduce. This world doesn't need that... > > The typical use pattern of cell phones, digital cameras, notebook > > computers, etc., favors lithium based batteries. > > Certainly- unfortunately, my WinMo phone favors a portable Honda gasoline > powered generator... ;-) Wow! You're on the cutting edge of technology. My phone still uses a coal-powered steeam engine and my laptop has a hamster running on a wheel. ;-) Anybody <anybody@anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in news:230420081324472272% anybody@anywhere-anytime.com: > my laptop has a hamster running on a > wheel. ;-) ...uh, that may not be as far fetched as this joke... http://www.otherpower.com/hamster.html If you've never visited the Colorado mountain men the power company wishes they'd never refused service to, otherpower.com has expanded into an international business of direct-drive, no gearbox, high powered wind machines made from home-made wooden blades, car disk brake alternators that turn so slow they'll never wear out, and home-made steering systems unduplicated anywhere. It's the coolest power alternator I ever saw.....and Skippy the hamster has one on his play wheel! You gotta see it....(c; With a few more hamsters, you never know.....we might have enough power to keep up with the heavy load from an IPHONE! Don't miss the webpages on the Listeroid alternator and wood-powered, steam power plants! Electric power for your house has been escaping up that fireplace chimney all your life....(c; www.otherpower.com I've followed them for years. > I try to recharge mid-day when possible/convenient, but frankly, I'm > simply not going to let a $15 battery run my life. If abusing the > sucker costs me $15/year, so be it. Rather that than turn my > cellphone into a "corded phone!" ;-) What pisses me off is the cheapskate bastards eliminated the CONVENIENT, EASY-TO-USE, drop in chargers we had on the old flipphones. It gave you a place to "hang" your phone on your desk or beside your bed so it didn't get shoved off onto the floor, or worse.....it automatically recharged your battery WITHOUT you having to fight some damned little USB connector you can hardly see that MUST be plugged in a certain way, which is really stupid. The drop in stand encouraged charging, which I supposed was hard on battery revenues.... On my desk was a quad, or was it octal, charging stand. Each slot would charge the phone(s) with battery attached...or...charge an extra battery, without it being attached to the phone. If you got longwinded, you simply swapped the easy-to-swap battery pack, which was the back of the phone. You didn't have to dig around inside some slick, shiny girly case, fight the damned battery hold down gadget to pry it out without a pry bar, then replace it all, a real PITA on any new phone, now. No, press the button, slide the whole back off the phone and slide another one on and you were ready-to-go. They talk a lot longer than the POWERFUL old transmitters, due to their very low power, not some digital magic, now....but their construction, now just sucks for user convenience. God I HATE USB charging! > What pisses me off is the cheapskate bastards eliminated the CONVENIENT, > EASY-TO-USE, drop in chargers we had on the old flipphones. It gave you a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > can hardly see that MUST be plugged in a certain way, which is really > stupid. Six of one, half-dozen of the other- while I too miss the convenient drop in stands, I'm jazzed by the ubiquity of mini-USB as a charging (and connection) "standard." When traveling, I can take one charger (an AC charger with a built-in 22mAH battery pack and two USB output ports) and a pair of USB to mini-USB cables to handle two phones, two bluetooth headsets, a BT GPS, two kiddie MP3/MP4 media players, and even my wife's keychain digital picture frame! By carrying the appropriate charge/sync cables, the same AC "wallbrick" also handles my Zunes, an iPod, my backup prepaid phone (a Verizon WinMo phone on PagePlus for where my T-Mo service is spotty), my old PDAs, etc. With the charger's included battery pack, I have emergency charging power on airplanes if the Zunes and media players can't handle a long flight without a little help. Mini-USB as REALLY cut down the size of my electronics "travel support kit." It's worth the trade off of losing the drop-in chargers of the past. > If you got longwinded, you simply > swapped the easy-to-swap battery pack, which was the back of the phone. > You didn't have to dig around inside some slick, shiny girly case, fight > the damned battery hold down gadget to pry it out without a pry bar, then > replace it all, a real PITA on any new phone, now. Yeah, but that has advantages as well- I had three completely different models of Nokia phones with entirely different form factors that all used the same "take off the cover and replace it" battery, which by coincidence also was the same battery used by my first BT GPS module (may it rest in peace.) I never had to carry the stupid proprietary charger for that GPS- I just swapped the battery with my phone's when the GPS ran down, and charged the low battery in the phone. Now my new GPS has a proprietary battery, but a "standard" charger- such is progress, I guess! > No, press the button, > slide the whole back off the phone and slide another one on and you were > ready-to-go. Again, advantages and disadvantages- it was very rare that those molded case batteries worked in any other phone, unless the new model was styled just like the old (i.e. Nokia 5120, 6120, 5160, 6160, etc. or the various Moto MicroTACs, etc.) > God I HATE USB charging! Again, one charger for "everything" has certain conveniences! > Now my new GPS has a proprietary battery, but a "standard" charger- > such is progress, I guess! Both the N800 and its little BT GPS "puck" receiver use the same tiny charging cords. Both units use standard Nokia sellphone batteries, too. The GPS uses a BL-5C and the tablet uses a BP-5L, which I found on the net for $18, a real OEM battery. Both are very easy to obtain. I think this little charger fits lots of Nokia phones, too. It makes good manufacturing sense. > Both the N800 and its little BT GPS "puck" receiver use the same tiny > charging cords. Both units use standard Nokia sellphone batteries, too. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I think this little charger fits lots of Nokia phones, too. It makes good > manufacturing sense. Certainly- prior to my relatively recent (2+ years) foray into WinMo phones,I was a dedicated Nokia snob. I had, over 15 years, a Nokia 100, 101, 232, 2160, 5120, 5160, 5190, 6120, 6190, 8260, 8290, 6610, 3560, 6010, 3650, 3620, and 6030. Those SEVENTEEN phones, spanning WELL over a decade, only used TWO different chargers amongst them! (Good thing too- my wife tends to lose chargers on various business trips at a rate of two or three a year. I now keep the cheap eBay "ships from Hong Kong" mini-USB charger sellers busy! ;-) >> God I HATE USB charging! > > Again, one charger for "everything" has certain conveniences! I love USB charging. It's much easier to have one standard small charging connector than a gazillion proprietary ones. I wish that more digital cameras had the option to charge the Li-Ion battery via USB. I wish that all the music players would have a mini-USB connector rather than the easily breakable flat connectors. > With the iPhone it won't be that easy, and if you are > recharging it every nigh you'll be looking at a battery replacement > every 9-10 months. This would be true if you constantly wait until it's DEAD before recharging. Most Li-Ion battery users don't understand how much damage they do to their expensive battery packs by bragging to everyone it runs 4 days without recharging when it sits all night next to their beds, RIGHT NEXT TO THE CHARGER. Li-Ion batteries are like lead-acid batteries in one respect....they are FLOAT batteries. They LOVE to be PARTIALLY discharged, then recharged IMMEDIATELY. I have Li-Ion batteries running old Palm Pilots that are nearly 10 years old and STILL will run a Palm Pilot for a LONG time because I always dropped it into the cradle every time I sat down at my desk to recharge, even though it would run for weeks without it. I found my old Palm clone and its charger the other day. IT still runs, too. What destroys a Sellphone battery in 10 months is DEEP CYCLING it. The chip in the battery only allows you to deep cycle it to about 50% of its real capability because deep cycling li-ion simply destroys them. Deep cycle it ONCE every 3-4 months to RESET the drifting cycle point on its charge timer IC that's in every Li-Ion battery, then IMMEDIATELY give it a FULL recharge. All other times, recharge it as quickly and as often as you can. The old Ni-Cd memory legacy, where you HAD to deep cycle Ni-Cd to keep them working, is still on many people's minds as true for Li-Ions and that's SIMPLY WRONG! EVERY chance you get to plug in your Li-Ion powered devices, DO SO! Damned batteries, especially in iPhones you have to pay to have replaced, are EXPENSIVE! >> With the iPhone it won't be that easy, and if you are >> recharging it every nigh you'll be looking at a battery replacement [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Damned batteries, especially in iPhones you have to pay to have > replaced, are EXPENSIVE! Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. Oh, wait a minute- yes we would. It has been discussed ad nauseum in these groups. And if you read the post I responded to, it was deep cycling that was being discussed. Why don't you go count the kernels on an ear of corn and report back the outrageous price we pay for that ear. > Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. Oh, > wait a minute- yes we would. It has been discussed ad nauseum in > these groups. So, what, just to satisfy you we never bring up the same topic for the new people who never read it before? Isn't that kind of....well.....stupid? > Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his garbage were it not for people quoting the whole damned thing. Please, trim the replies. >> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. > > And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his garbage > were it not for people quoting the whole damned thing. > > Please, trim the replies. Thank you, Usenet police. >>> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. >> And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his garbage [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thank you, Usenet police. Politely requesting netiquette isn't netcopping. fwiw, -Craig >>>> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. >>> And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his garbage [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > fwiw, > -Craig I must have missed the polite part. I got the whiney part loud and clear. > >>>> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. > >>> And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his garbage [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I must have missed the polite part. I got the whiney part loud and clear. It says "please" and there's no "shouting" or calling people idiots (or worse) ... that's called being polite ... dumbass. ;-) >> >>>> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. >> >>> And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > It says "please" and there's no "shouting" or calling people idiots > (or worse) ... that's called being polite ... dumbass. ;-) And that message was brought to you by the National Coalition of Mental Midgets. "Please" does not always equate to polite... dumbass > >> >>>> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. > >> >>> And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > "Please" does not always equate to polite... dumbass Whatever. :-\ > >>>> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. > >>> And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his garbage [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I must have missed the polite part. I got the whiney part loud and clear. Bob Navas? SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" >> >>>> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. >> >>> And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Bob Navas? Not even on my worst day, Skippy. > >> >>>> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. > >> >>> And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Not even on my worst day, Skippy. Hit a nerve ;-) SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" >> >> >>>> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. >> >> >>> And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Hit a nerve ;-) Not possible. That would imply that opinions here have value. They don't. > >> >> >>>> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. > >> >> >>> And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Not possible. That would imply that opinions here have value. They don't. But you like Skippy. I prefer Jif. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" >>>>> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. >>>> And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his garbage [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I must have missed the polite part. I got the whiney part loud and clear. Netiquette is not a bad thing. People who reference it aren't necessarily netcops. Whiny? I read it as plaintive. But we all know how reading things into a post ends. Trimming posts is a part of netiquette. If you don't want to engage in it <shrug>. If you'd rather disparage the poster <shrug>. For those who find value in civility: <http://www.albion.com/netiquette/> -Craig > I must have missed the polite part. I got the whiney part loud and clear. Ah, so much for civility. You missed the insulting part. Ok, here was the actual intent "f.ck OFF, YOU IDIOT BASTARD CHILD OF NAVAS" >> I must have missed the polite part. I got the whiney part loud and >> clear. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You missed the insulting part. Ok, here was the actual intent "f.ck > OFF, YOU IDIOT BASTARD CHILD OF NAVAS" Wow- that was entertaining, Bill. Not very original, but entertaining. I guess you've crossed me off the Christmas card list. BTW- this last response from you would indicate that you think I actually give a sh.t about your opinion. I don't. > BTW- this last response from you would indicate that you think I actually > give a sh.t about your opinion. I don't. And yet you feel compelled to reply? Last word needs? Inadequancies in general? Or just a putz all-around? >> BTW- this last response from you would indicate that you think I >> actually give a sh.t about your opinion. I don't. > > And yet you feel compelled to reply? Last word needs? Inadequancies > in general? Or just a putz all-around? More like a lack of meaningful entertainment in the real world. Take it anyway you want. > It's April, not June. Not only does Apple has time to iron it out, but > also expectations may have to be adjusted for this device. You mean...like actually having a *removable* battery? > With > push-e-mail and bluetooth enabled, and maybe an hour to two of WiFi, my > WinMo phone will start begging for a charge (literally, with on-screen pop- > ups!) after 14-16 hours. The backlight is a huge power drain on many WM phones. In most firmware, the default backlight level while on battery power is set way too high. Try cranking it down to the minimum (one notch above backlight completely off). The published specifications for a typical WM phone (SoftBank X01HT a.k.a. HTC Hermes) shows that using 3G reduces talk time by about 20% (4 hours instead of 5 hours), but that standby time for 3G is 20% better (250 hours vs. 200 hours). Having compared battery life in both 3G and GSM more on this particular model, I think that 20% is about right. I normally use regular (non-smart) 3G mobile phones (both EV-DO and W-CDMA/UMTS), and the battery consumption after a day of use is negligible. The myth of "3G consuming too much battery" is more based upon the short battery life of WM smartphones (and the backlight has a *lot* to do with that!) than reality. FWIW, I never cared for smart phones; they compromise the fundamental task of being a phone too much in order to provide PDA capabilities. Before you can place a call, iPhone requires three physical operations: press the center button, slide to unlock, press the phone icon. WM is worse. Most phones are ready in one physical operation: open flip/slider. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum. > The backlight is a huge power drain on many WM phones. In most > firmware, the default backlight level while on battery power is set > way too high. Try cranking it down to the minimum (one notch above > backlight completely off). The backlight is a fairly high load, but is NOTHING like the load of the TRANSMITTER! Ever notice how hot a Sellphone gets when you are not standing in full view of a tower that's some distance away, causing the cell to crank up your controllable output power to maximum so it can hear you on the shared channel with the other 24 users (CDMA) on that channel. LEVEL is very important on shared channel schemes. When you are far from the tower, yakking away an causing lots of transmitter packets loaded with voice data, that transmitter gets HOT! That heat is the inefficiency of the transmitter's output power IC, a large power IC on the case as its heat sink....warming your ear. To get 150mw out of the antenna jack, about 300mw has to be put in as DC from the battery pack. I = P/E (hey, I taught electronics for 20 years!) .3W/3.8V Li-Ion cell power = 78ma...just in the output stage! This is why the TALK time is so much LESS than the standby time of a simply Sellphone. Total transmitter power is probably 100ma....which eats the battery even MORE than the backlight. Add them together and you have iPhone on a too- small battery pack......to make it THINNER! Everything has its price.....to be THIN. > Ever notice how hot a Sellphone gets when you are not standing in full view > of a tower that's some distance away, causing the cell to crank up your > controllable output power to maximum so it can hear you on the shared > channel with the other 24 users (CDMA) on that channel. LEVEL is very > important on shared channel schemes. CDMA Course 101 - 1) CDMA does not have a fixed number of channels. 2) Output power level is determined by the noise floor. GSM Course 101 - 1) 24 users per channel. 2) Power level is fixed fixed. > (hey, I taught electronics for 20 years!) Okaaaayyyyyyyyyy..... > > (hey, I taught electronics for 20 years!) > > Okaaaayyyyyyyyyy..... Indeed, living proof of "those that can't do, teach"? >> > (hey, I taught electronics for 20 years!) >> >> Okaaaayyyyyyyyyy..... > > Indeed, living proof of "those that can't do, teach"? Like wise, those that can't finish vet school try for a human medical doctor course plan. > With > push-e-mail and bluetooth enabled, and maybe an hour to two of WiFi, > my WinMo phone will start begging for a charge (literally, with > on-screen pop- ups!) after 14-16 hours. http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3186 Maybe he's not the only one needing one of these!.....hee hee...(c; >> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several >> locations around the world. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >WinMo phone will start begging for a charge (literally, with on-screen pop- >ups!) after 14-16 hours. Not to mention Push-to-talk/walkie-talkie phones that have to keep "advertising" their presence to the network. Now that sucks current. >And that's fine- I charge it overnight and it's good to go the next day. >Sure I wish it only needed to be charged once a week like my old Nokia [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >For those who need ubiquitous high-speed data, it's worth the tradeoff. >For those that don't, they can stick with iPhone V1, or turn 3G off... > Not to mention Push-to-talk/walkie-talkie phones that have to keep > "advertising" their presence to the network. Now that sucks current. I'm very unfamiliar with PTT implementations- why wouldn't the system just use the same "registration" the phone portion of the device uses? If the system sees that your iDen UberTalkie 3000 is connected to the network, why does the PTT part of the device need to announce itself separately? (I'm not doubting your statement- I'm just curious. I've just never given a rat's hindquarters about PTT to bother to have learned how the various systems work!) In article <4b52a109-2207-4e10-882b-290c1b5e7a16@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008. And where did you inhale this rumor? You usually attach a link to your so called "news". This time no link. Are you sure you did not drop some LSD? What high school do you attend? SignatureCharles In article <4b52a109-2207-4e10-882b-290c1b5e7a16@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several > locations around the world. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick a.s wireless phone > not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office. The battery was one of the reasons Apple didn't release a 3G phone in the first place, so they've been working on this for over a year already. Pre-release models rarely stack up to the proper version - they're *PRE*-release for a reason: so that people can test and give feedback > In article > <4b52a109-2207-4e10-882b-290c1b5e7a16@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > they're *PRE*-release for a reason: so that people can test and give > feedback Just what AAPL'd want, mucho "poor battery life" feedback in advance! 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:4b52a109-2207-4e10-882b- 290c1b5e7a16@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com: > The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several > locations around the world. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick a.s wireless phone > not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office. Stalling tactic to clean out the warehouses and warehouses full of old, unsold iPhones Apple "held back" to make 'em drool standing in line in the cold, last winter. --------------------------------------------------------------- I don't understand the battery problem. iPhone is nearly the same chipset as the Nokia N800 ARM processor with its 4.5" very bright 800 pixel display. The only difference is the tiny, low-powered, PCS phone chips the Linux tablet doesn't have, but the Linux tablet runs its Bluetooth chipset to use the Sellphone link. With the display on full power, I get 4.5 hours. If I reduce the display to 1/2 brightness, I get nearly 7 continuous hours. If I'm listening to streaming audio over the BT link through the Sellphone link and the display turns off because I don't click anything, it'll run for days! The stock Nokia battery is 1300 mAh, same as they put in some Sellphones. Does the iPhone get physically warm or hot to the touch after you make a long call? I've never held one that long. Does it get hotter from the display being on or from making long phone calls? That might identify the power hogs inside the thin case. I suppose you COULD wear one of these: http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3186 and plug the car cord into it, which would recharge the 3G iPhone in between embarrassing coffee shop encounters. Tell them you're a patriot and want to display the flag. It says it will run 3.4 hours with a 50 watt load! iPhones, even 3G ones, should run all day and arrive home fully recharged so you can talk while the fannypack recharges without plugging the iPhone in...for the first couple of hours, at least. Print up a phony PRESS PASS and make it into an ID badge. They'll think you're a famous CNN videographer on assignment to cover the Starbuck's new wifi company switch! People are stupid. They'll believe anything. Hey, for no apparent reason, AAPL stock is rising back towards its previous $200 price! That's the really important part to ol' Stevie J. I'm sure this news will change that trend if it gets out..... > 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:4b52a109-2207-4e10-882b- > 290c1b5e7a16@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > previous $200 price! That's the really important part to ol' Stevie J. > I'm sure this news will change that trend if it gets out..... The iPhone battery is very small. The funny thing is, Apple has had over a year to solve this battery problem with 3G. This is why they said from day one that they used edge chipset as the battery drain was so much. My treo 755 uses 3G and battery life compared to the iPhone is night and day. My friend tells me Bluetooth sucks his iPhone more then any thing else on his Iphone. I think your right about them wanting to clear out stock before they start shipping the new one's. Once they start selling the new, who would buy the old ones. I'm wanting to know what the new data rate is going to be for the 3G service. I'll say they will charge close to the other 3G packages, but throw in the 200 SMS for free. > The iPhone battery is very small. The funny thing is, Apple has had > over a year to solve this battery problem with 3G. This is why they > said from day one that they used edge chipset as the battery drain was > so much. My treo 755 uses 3G and battery life compared to the iPhone > is night and day. My friend tells me Bluetooth sucks his iPhone more > then any thing else on his Iphone. Too much "thinness" glitz. If they'd made it just a couple of mm thicker, they'd have had room for a MUCH bigger battery to power it. The Air suffers from the same thinness problem. > The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several > locations around the world. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick a.s wireless phone > not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office. Chapter and verse plz |
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