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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / July 2008I Phone?
Is it worth the $$$$$ Flat "Flathead" <flathead@none.com> wrote in news:Lxrck.7675$L_.7657 @flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com: > Is it worth the $$$$$ > Flat As with any device.....Figure out what you want to do, find the installable software that will do the best job for you doing it, then buy the hardware that will run that software the best at the best price point possible. For any of that, it falls on its face because you're not allowed to install software on it unless some Apple nanny has approved it for you, like the training wheels on your first bike. You're way too stupid to install it yourself so they only want you to have what they sell and support, unless you hack into it and destroy its warrantee, possibly bricking it for good. There's no PC reloading software to restore it. It seems any media you want to play on it has to be "converted" to something Apple at the FruitFarm wants you to run, like Quicktime. There's zero support for many common media modes like Flash or Realmedia or DivX or many other modes media is posted in on common websites like Usenet! This is, of course, another attempt to SELL you something from the FruitFarm's iTunes Box Office at some god awful price that adds up fast if you use it. A Usenet media player it's NOT by design, very careful design. Not to worry, anyways, it has no external storage card slot to put the media on easily, anyways, again by careful design. But, it's cool and makes you look cool, its main feature.... Even as a phone it sucks. You can't press your earphone and say, "Call Office" because it doesn't voice dial, for instance, something any premium phone from anyone does. In many states, dialing it while driving is a criminal offense. Someone is always trying to SELL you something, many times by the month, to use with it. It's like carrying around a goddamned VISA-powered box office in your jeans constantly trying to rip you off. AND IT ONLY RUNS ONE PROGRAM AT A TIME, so you can't leave your VoIP program running in background while you play a game or check your email....which REALLY sucks. it's the only computing device now made, I know of that is NOT multi-tasking! Hell, even the video games are multitasking, now! This doesn't matter much because you're not allowed to run your VoIP program, anyways. (See above) Ask yourself "why"..... And you're going to sign over your freedom to ATT or pay $600 for this PoS? Come on!....(c; I thought WebTV was dead, but it's just gone mobile..... We'll now hear from the company men fanbois how wonderful it is without really responding to these glaring deficiencies....by careful design. > "Flathead" <flathead@none.com> wrote in news:Lxrck.7675$L_.7657 > @flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > buy the hardware that will run that software the best at the best price > point possible. Generally I'm not in the "defend the iPhone camp", but you need to STOP looking at it like a PC. Not all devices require "installable software." Take your toaster- you unbox it, plug it in, activate the very easy to use UI, and bam- you have toast. The iPhone does a very nice job browsing the web, playing media and doing e-mail. If that's the feature set you require, it's a nice device, and any additional features added are gravy. I do some pretty funky and relatively esoteric things with my phone, so the iPhone isn't for me, but it's a neat device and not so easily dismissed. > For any of that, it falls on its face because you're not allowed to > install software on it unless some Apple nanny has approved it for you, > like the training wheels on your first bike. You're way too stupid to > install it yourself so they only want you to have what they sell and > support, unless you hack into it and destroy its warrantee, possibly > bricking it for good. There's no PC reloading software to restore it. Again, it's not a PC, but a phone. The new 2.0 software allows the official installation of 3rd-party apps via iTunes. This is greatly improved from last year's v1.0 software. > It seems any media you want to play on it has to be "converted" to > something Apple at the FruitFarm wants you to run, like Quicktime. True, but it's handled automatically by the iTunes desktop so it's easy enough. > There's zero support for many common media modes like Flash or Realmedia > or DivX or many other modes media is posted in on common websites like > Usenet! This is, of course, another attempt to SELL you something from > the FruitFarm's iTunes Box Office at some god awful price that adds up > fast if you use it. A Usenet media player it's NOT by design, very > careful design. Again, you can download to your heart's content on your PC then drag it to the iPhone in iTunes and the conversion is automatic- no cost, no hassle. If your PC can play it, iTunes will convert it. > Not to worry, anyways, it has no external storage card > slot to put the media on easily, anyways, again by careful design. But ample internal storage. Que sera sera. > But, it's cool and makes you look cool, its main feature.... IMO, it's main feature is simplicity. Any idiot can use it. (Which explains our pal Oxford...) > Even as a phone it sucks. You can't press your earphone and say, "Call > Office" because it doesn't voice dial, for instance, something any > premium phone from anyone does. In many states, dialing it while > driving is a criminal offense. The iPhone certainly has flaws, but it's an impressive piece of hardware, dumbed-down a bit too much by Apple's software, but it's certainly worthy of a look. > Someone is always trying to SELL you something, many times by the month, > to use with it. It's like carrying around a goddamned VISA-powered box > office in your jeans constantly trying to rip you off. Only to the extent one is willing. Convenience has a price, and it's often worth it. (i.e. iPhone movie rental- $2 a pop is easier than downloading, ripping, converting, etc.) > AND IT ONLY RUNS ONE PROGRAM AT A TIME, so you can't leave your VoIP > program running in background while you play a game or check your > email....which REALLY sucks. it's the only computing device now made, I > know of that is NOT multi-tasking! Hell, even the video games are > multitasking, now! This doesn't matter much because you're not allowed > to run your VoIP program, anyways. (See above) The device can multitask- the 3rd party apps can't. The official workaround, the way I understand it, is a web service that alerts the iPhone an app is needed. I.e., if an instant messaging app or VoIP client is written for iPhone, the service used will have to be written to "page" the iPhone via a web service to alert the iPhone that a call or message is coming in and to launch the appropriate app to receive the incoming message/call. A little more work for the developers, but the result, at least theoretically, is a more stable phone- no lockups or slowdowns due to too many 3rd party apps competing for the small number of resources on the mobile device. My experience with Windows Mobile indicates that many 3rd party developers aren't really good at writing apps that "wait their turn" or relinquish resources when no longer needed! Many are written as if they'll be the only thing ever running on the device! With the iPhone, they will be! ;-) > Ask yourself "why"..... > > And you're going to sign over your freedom to ATT or pay $600 for this > PoS? This time it's subsidized- it's not a bad little phone for $200 with contract. > Come on!....(c; > > I thought WebTV was dead, but it's just gone mobile..... And WebTV was a perfectly fine product for a certain type of customer that didn't need the features of a full PC. Likewise, the iPhone is an excellent product for those that don't need a full smartphone. > We'll now hear from the company men fanbois how wonderful it is without > really responding to these glaring deficiencies....by careful design. Personally I'm on your side- I don't like devices that have inherent capabilities crippled by design choice. A good case in point is my Microsoft Zune- MS' even more crippled answer to Apple's crippled iPods. My Zune has a 30GB hard disk that can't be seen as a USB mass storage device- it's only visable via the 50MB of Zune bloatware. The Zune's tiny size would allow it to double as an ideal portable hard disk, but MS says no. The Zune software has the native ability to convert any media that plays on the PC to WMV format playable by the Zune, but REFUSES to recognize DiVX files because they're only used by naughty people downloading illegal things. Hackers figured out the registry edits to unlock DiVX conversion, but MS locked it back down with software updates. (But, ironically, the free Windows Movie Maker included with XP and Vista does it without complaining!) But, in order to court the media moguls, the Zune had to have basic features (like drag-n-drop outside of the Zune software, uninhibited WiFi file transfer, etc.) crippled, turning it from what could've been the best valued, best featured, media player on the market to a ho-hum "me too" device in a crowded field. Similarly, I think the iPhone got caught in this mindset- features that give media companies or Apple's cellular partners the willies (direct iPhone-to-iPhone file transfer, phone as modem use, media transfers outside of iTunes, etc.) were crippled, to allow the device to be the top of the iPod line, rather than a true smartphone. What gives ME the willies is MS' continual hinting that the Windows Mobile and Zune product lines (and development teams) will converge down the road. Windows Mobile will be ruined if it's crippled in the Zune's fashion. I like the ability to beam an MP3 or document to any other uncrippled device- PC, phone, whatever, without restriction- I don't want a "ZunePhone" that's design specifications were designed to impress media execs instead of it's users! ;-) > The device can multitask- the 3rd party apps can't. The official > workaround, the way I understand it, is a web service that alerts the iPhone [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > coming in and to launch the appropriate app to receive the incoming > message/call. my understanding of it is that the app registers itself to receive notifications, and a single background app (surprise) periodically checks and dispatches any events accordingly. > A little more work for the developers, it sounds like it might be less work -- just register for the notification and you're done. > but the result, at > least theoretically, is a more stable phone- no lockups or slowdowns due to > too many 3rd party apps competing for the small number of resources on the > mobile device. that's the goal. > My > Zune has a 30GB hard disk that can't be seen as a USB mass storage > device- it's only visable via the 50MB of Zune bloatware. My favorite MP3 player is ancient, PRE-nanny, an Xclef 500 with 120GB laptop hard drive. It's not as big as the tablet but lots thicker because of the drive. I wore out the 60GB drive it came with and replaced it with a Toshiba rough-handling 120GB laptop drive that will take some serious G- forces. The paint's wore off the aluminum very nicely to a shiny sheen by the leather case it came with. It's not a pocket portable, but it stays in my truck plugged into the 800 watt DJ system when I'm on the road...(c; What? Your car radio doesn't have four 15" JBL Pro-sound stadium speaker cabinets??...(c; > The iPhone does a very nice job browsing the web, playing media and > doing e-mail. Email's OK. A media player, it's not. Media players play media files, not just Apple media files. There's a difference. Web browser lacks Flash support. I understand that's not gonna get fixed, probably to prevent users from streaming and using bandwidth....God forbid it should use bandwidth at $100/month. No JAVA is a problem of the N800, too, and both of them lack it....grrr.. No Flash Many plugins are missing....no Realvideo/Realaudio for instance, which eliminates it streaming over 60% of the internet radio stations like BBC. Like I said, Email's OK.... > > The iPhone does a very nice job browsing the web, playing media and > > doing e-mail. > > Email's OK. A media player, it's not. Media players play media files, not > just Apple media files. There's a difference. it plays a lot more than 'apple media files,' including mp3, aac, audible, aiff and wav. wmv is converted via itunes. >> > The iPhone does a very nice job browsing the web, playing media and >> > doing e-mail. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it plays a lot more than 'apple media files,' including mp3, aac, > audible, aiff and wav. wmv is converted via itunes. And increases the file size four-fold in doing so. It also doesn't play flac or shn files. > >> Email's OK. A media player, it's not. Media players play media > >> files, not just Apple media files. There's a difference. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > And increases the file size four-fold in doing so. that depends on the encoding and bit rate selected. there's no automatic 'four fold' bloat. > It also doesn't play > flac or shn files. if you want to install linux on an ipod, it can. however, those formats are not in widespread use (mp3 and aac are the vast majority), but obviously, if you have a lot of content in either format, the ipod isn't the right choice. >> > The iPhone does a very nice job browsing the web, playing media and >> > doing e-mail. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it plays a lot more than 'apple media files,' including mp3, aac, > audible, aiff and wav. wmv is converted via itunes. Man! Everyone is saving all their music in aiff and audible and wav files these days! What a device! It plays them all!! > >> Email's OK. A media player, it's not. Media players play media > >> files, not just Apple media files. There's a difference. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Man! Everyone is saving all their music in aiff and audible and wav files > these days! What a device! It plays them all!! most people use mp3 or aac and the ipod works just fine. if someone has a lot of music in a format the ipod doesn't natively handle then they should get something else. why is this such a big deal? "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:g4tqit$9nc$1 @aioe.org: > but REFUSES to recognize DiVX > files because they're only used by naughty people downloading illegal > things I'm sure glad mplayer for Linux runs on the tablet, complete with its DivX decoder...(c; I do have a confession. The tablet will run the movies straight off alt.binaries.movies.divx...in offline mode. But, I use the Media Converter JAVA Nokia gave us to reduce the 1.4GB DivX to a more storage friendly 380MB DivX file (600x400) for the tablet to use. All that resolution is overkill on a 4" screen. You can't tell the difference, except you can have background apps running and connected to the net with the reduced load the smaller files rendering uses. I use the converter straight to the external 16GB SDHC plugged in as a USB drive because the tower's card reader won't read it, Gateway! It will convert any number of files, 2-pass, while I sleep from its list. I don't like to watch paint dry, either...(c; 16GB/about 380MB is a LOT of movies to watch...(c; > > but REFUSES to recognize DiVX > > files because they're only used by naughty people downloading illegal > > things > > I'm sure glad mplayer for Linux runs on the tablet, complete with its DivX > decoder...(c; I use a Divx player on my WinMo device as well. TCPMP handles virually any media file, and has plugins for types it doesn't: flash, Apple's H264, etc. > I do have a confession. The tablet will run the movies straight off > alt.binaries.movies.divx...in offline mode. But, I use the Media Converter [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have background apps running and connected to the net with the reduced load > the smaller files rendering uses. But that's just the point, isn't it? I downconvert almost everything to play on my WinMo device as well- sure it can render a 700MB Divx movie, but the device comes to a screching halt if any other task tries to execute! Given that, how much of a hardship is the iPhone's forced conversion to it's native format for playback? Particularly when it's handled automatically by the iTunes software? Sure, I can brag that I don't HAVE to convert video, but as a practical matter I do, unless I want the phone to run flat-out trying to render a full-size Divx movie file. > I use the converter straight to the external 16GB SDHC plugged in as a USB > drive because the tower's card reader won't read it, Gateway! It will > convert any number of files, 2-pass, while I sleep from its list. I don't > like to watch paint dry, either...(c; And so can an iPhone user- dock the phone, drag a bunch of movies into iTunes and let it convert overnight. What's the difference? > As with any device.....Figure out what you want to do, find the > installable software that will do the best job for you doing it, then > buy the hardware that will run that software the best at the best price > point possible. exactly. yet you still launch into a rant about why you think the device sucks. did it ever occur to you that maybe it is the best solution for some people's needs? > For any of that, it falls on its face because you're not allowed to > install software on it unless some Apple nanny has approved it for you, > like the training wheels on your first bike. to sell your app in the apple store (like any store) requires approval, but there are apple supported methods of installing software without going through the store (and i'm not talking about jailbreaking, which also works). > You're way too stupid to > install it yourself so they only want you to have what they sell and > support, unless you hack into it and destroy its warrantee, possibly > bricking it for good. There's no PC reloading software to restore it. it can be restored with itunes on either mac or pc. it's very simple and takes only a minute or so. > It seems any media you want to play on it has to be "converted" to > something Apple at the FruitFarm wants you to run, like Quicktime. like avi, quicktime is a container format and can contain any number of encoding formats. the iphone and ipod touch support industry standard formats such as mpeg and h.264. divx is is mostly pirated videos, and not surprisingly, apple doesn't support it. however, vlc has already been ported, so if you want to play divx or other formats, there's no need to convert anything. > There's zero support for many common media modes like Flash or Realmedia > or DivX or many other modes media is posted in on common websites like > Usenet! flash has been demoed by adobe and also by a third party developer. as i mentioned above, vlc has already been ported. real is proprietary, and perhaps they'll create a player for it. > This is, of course, another attempt to SELL you something from > the FruitFarm's iTunes Box Office at some god awful price that adds up > fast if you use it. A Usenet media player it's NOT by design, very > careful design. Not to worry, anyways, it has no external storage card > slot to put the media on easily, anyways, again by careful design. it has 16 gig internal memory, which is more than enough for most people. the biggest selling ipods are the 4 and 8 gig nanos, not the 80 and 160 gig classics. since there's already a 32 gig ipod touch, a 32 gig iphone is due soon. > But, it's cool and makes you look cool, its main feature.... > > Even as a phone it sucks. You can't press your earphone and say, "Call > Office" because it doesn't voice dial, for instance, something any > premium phone from anyone does. In many states, dialing it while > driving is a criminal offense. voice dialing isn't very reliable and most people don't bother using it either. nevertheless, a software developer has demoed voice dialing capability already. > Someone is always trying to SELL you something, many times by the month, > to use with it. It's like carrying around a goddamned VISA-powered box > office in your jeans constantly trying to rip you off. someone is trying to sell me something every single day, whether it's ads on the tv or radio, ads on the internet or junk mail stuck in my mailbox. nothing new there. > AND IT ONLY RUNS ONE PROGRAM AT A TIME, that's false. > so you can't leave your VoIP > program running in background while you play a game or check your > email....which REALLY sucks. you play games while talking to people? that's rude. it also does background email checks and/or receives push email, so there's no issue there either. > it's the only computing device now made, I > know of that is NOT multi-tasking! it definitely multitasks. apple doesn't want background apps because they don't want software developers to create dozens of background daemons that might slow down the device, suck up network bandwidth (which for cellular is a premium) and run down the battery. i'm sure someone will do it anyway. > Hell, even the video games are > multitasking, now! This doesn't matter much because you're not allowed > to run your VoIP program, anyways. (See above) it's sold as a *phone*. obviously, at&t (or whatever carrier) wants you to pay for minutes and not use voip. nevertheless, voip exists too, if that's what you want to do. > Ask yourself "why"..... > > And you're going to sign over your freedom to ATT or pay $600 for this > PoS? if you don't want one, don't buy one. why do you get so worked up if someone else wants one? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in news:070720081226283435% nospam@nospam.invalid: > if you don't want one, don't buy one. why do you get so worked up if > someone else wants one? Probably for the same reason YOU get so worked up when someone points out its glaring deficiencies. > nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in news:070720081226283435% > nospam@nospam.invalid: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Probably for the same reason YOU get so worked up when someone points out > its glaring deficiencies. i'm not worked up at all. buy whatever you want. i don't understand why people obsess over criticising a product and if other people might want one. also, there's a quite a few inaccurate and downright incorrect claims, something that seems to be in abundance here. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in news:070720081813282613% nospam@nospam.invalid: > i don't understand > why people obsess over criticising a product and if other people might > want one. Because I know people who HAVE them and wish they'd never seen them? They had no idea what its capability, or more important its incapability was because the hype said it was the greatest gadget since sliced bread....which, of course, is a tiny bit of an exageration...(c; If ONE person all horny and squirming on that line stops to take a breath and THINK FOR HIMSELF, all the various critical posts made by the entire group of critical posters.....was of service. > > i don't understand > > why people obsess over criticising a product and if other people might > > want one. > > Because I know people who HAVE them and wish they'd never seen them? why don't they quit complaining and sell them on ebay? right now, iphones are going for fairly high prices. here's two that sold for $1000 each: <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230264660253> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280237590813> 82% of iphone owners are 'very satisfied' with it, and that is much higher than other smartphones. you must hang out with the other 18%. :) <http://www.changewave.com/freecontent/2007/10/alliance-101807-AppleDoes ntDisappoint.html> An unprecedented 82% of iPhone owners report being Very Satisfied with their purchase, up 5-points since our previous survey in July and by far the highest rating of any cellular manufacturer. > They had no idea what its capability, or more important its incapability > was because the hype said it was the greatest gadget since sliced [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and THINK FOR HIMSELF, all the various critical posts made by the entire > group of critical posters.....was of service. people are capable of deciding for themselves. like most phones, they can try it out for 30 days and return it if not satisfied. most people are happy with it, but some aren't. that's why there are alternatives. >> > i don't understand >> > why people obsess over criticising a product and if other people might [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230264660253> > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280237590813> Selling. Not being sold or bought. Big difference. > 82% of iphone owners are 'very satisfied' with it, and that is much > higher than other smartphones. you must hang out with the other 18%. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > can try it out for 30 days and return it if not satisfied. most people > are happy with it, but some aren't. that's why there are alternatives. > >> Because I know people who HAVE them and wish they'd never seen them? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Selling. Not being sold or bought. Big difference. both of those listings are closed auctions. although most iphones don't command that high a price, the point is that anyone who is not satisfied and past the return period can sell it and recoup whatever they paid, sometimes even more. > > why don't they quit complaining and sell them on ebay? right now, > > iphones are going for fairly high prices. here's two that sold for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Selling. Not being sold or bought. Big difference. yes, those are "sold" prices... not "selling" prices. iphone command quite a premium since the functionally is so high. i expect to make money on my iphones when i decide to upgrade... it's kinda like apple "pays" you to own them, kinda cool and shows that owning quality devices can pay you back... Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with iPhone. Hack it and save hundreds. >> > why don't they quit complaining and sell them on ebay? right now, >> > iphones are going for fairly high prices. here's two that sold for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > kinda like apple "pays" you to own them, kinda cool and shows that > owning quality devices can pay you back... > Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with iPhone. > Hack it and save hundreds. except that a 2 year contract is required. the iphones on ebay don't have a contract. people want to unlock them (if they aren't already) and use them on whatever cellphone plan they currently have, rather than sign up for a whole new 2 year plan (or 3 years in canada). also, a lot of iphones on ebay are purchased by people living in countries where the iphone is not available at all. ebay is one of the *only* ways they can get one. >> Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with iPhone. >> Hack it and save hundreds. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > currently have, rather than sign up for a whole new 2 year plan (or 3 > years in canada). This is true. On the other hand I haven't seen any signs that AT&T's contract terms and conditions will be different for the iPhone than other AT&T phones, which seems to mean that one could sign up for a contract, cancel before the end of the first month, pay the ETF and be free and clear for not too much over $400. It hence seems like the resale value of an old iPhone has got to be less than that since the old iPhone has an inferior feature set. > also, a lot of iphones on ebay are purchased by people living in > countries where the iphone is not available at all. ebay is one of the > *only* ways they can get one. That is also true, though the number of such countries becomes significantly smaller on July 11 and will continue to decrease over the next half-year. I'm considering the purchase of a new iPhone in Hong Kong since the phone+contract price is significantly cheaper than AT&T and there's some chance it will be sold there without the SIM lock. Relying on overseas buyers to continue to keep the resale price of the old phones high might not be a good bet. Dennis Ferguson > > the iphones on ebay don't have a contract. people want to unlock them > > (if they aren't already) and use them on whatever cellphone plan they [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > iPhone has got to be less than that since the old iPhone has an inferior > feature set. if you cancel before 30 days, you have to return the iphone. if you cancel after 30 days, you can keep the iphone. so at a minimum, you have to pay for two months of service (they might prorate one of those though) and the early termination fee. also, the old iphone can easily be unlocked. nobody yet knows how easy it will be to unlock the 3g iphone, so some people are playing it safe and going with the older one. >> > the iphones on ebay don't have a contract. people want to unlock them >> > (if they aren't already) and use them on whatever cellphone plan they [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > have to pay for two months of service (they might prorate one of those > though) and the early termination fee. Which terms and conditions are you seeing that in? The generic terms of service say if you cancel the service within 30 days and return the phone in like-new condition they'll give you a refund for the phone and waive the ETF. They don't say you have to return the phone. If you don't return the phone (or if you've dropped it in the toilet) you pay the ETF. Nothing keeps you from cancelling the contract any time you want, and keeping what you've bought, as long as you pay the ETF. > also, the old iphone can easily be unlocked. nobody yet knows how easy > it will be to unlock the 3g iphone, so some people are playing it safe > and going with the older one. This is true at the moment. I'd point out, however, that Apple's own vested interest in chasing unlockers seems to be diminished with the new iPhone since Apple now makes money only from the phone's sale and not from the subsequent service. It could be that Apple will devote more resources to trying to keep the new phone locked anyway but, given that there's no longer money for Apple involved in doing so, I wouldn't bet on it. In any case, I'd still be surprised if the new iPhone didn't take the resale prices of old iPhones down quite a bit. The new model has a better feature set and is priced to sell a lot of phones, unlike the older boutique pricing, so I'd be surprised if the boutique resale pricing of the old model continued for much longer. Dennis Ferguson > > if you cancel before 30 days, you have to return the iphone. if you > > cancel after 30 days, you can keep the iphone. so at a minimum, you [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > keeps you from cancelling the contract any time you want, and keeping what > you've bought, as long as you pay the ETF. a leaked at&t memo is here: <http://gizmodo.com/5014909/att-memo-to-retail-managers-shows-iphone-3g- policy> 3G Devices The return policy for 3G is changing from 14 days to 30 days for both Apple and AT&T stores. To cancel service within the first 30 days, the customer must return their equipment to the place of purchase (no exceptions). If the customer cancels service after 30 days, they will be charged the ETF. The customer is not required to return the device to cancel after 30 days. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in news:080720081537052603% nospam@nospam.invalid: > http://gizmodo.com/5014909/att-memo-to-retail-managers-shows-iphone-3g- I've never been inside ATT or Apple, but you boys are smarter than the average joe, even OX. Have you EVER gotten a secret, internal, eyes only memo that started with an ADVERTISEMENT for the product? Come on....OPEN YOUR EYES! This "secret memo" is a SPAM! They don't send spams to themselves! "***Confidential AT&T Information. For Internal Distribution Only.*** AT&T and Apple today announced that the iPhone 3G will be available in the U.S on July 11. iPhone 3G combines three products into one small, lightweight device: a revolutionary mobile phone, a widescreen iPod, and it puts the Internet in your pocket with the best e-mail, web browsing, search and maps applications ever on a mobile phone." They don't sell products to the store managers.... > nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in news:080720081537052603% > nospam@nospam.invalid: > > > http://gizmodo.com/5014909/att-memo-to-retail-managers-shows-iphone-3g- > > I've never been inside ATT or Apple, no surprise there. > but you boys are smarter than the > average joe, even OX. > > Have you EVER gotten a secret, internal, eyes only memo that started with > an ADVERTISEMENT for the product? that's not an ad, that's just a brief summary of the device, along with the procedures to sell and activate it. nothing unusual about that. > Come on....OPEN YOUR EYES! This "secret memo" is a SPAM! They don't send > spams to themselves! if you think it's bogus, then why not call or visit an apple or at&t store and find out what the policy is for purchasing, cancelling and returning an iphone. report back with what you find. >> Come on....OPEN YOUR EYES! This "secret memo" is a SPAM! They don't >> send spams to themselves! > > if you think it's bogus, then why not call or visit an apple or at&t > store and find out what the policy is for purchasing, cancelling and > returning an iphone. report back with what you find. Has Apple filed suit against Gizmodo for posting this secret document, company proprietary stuff they always sue over? NO, they have not. Has Apple threatened them with a lawsuit if they don't remove it from the website, as they have others? NO, they have not. Ask yourself why..... > >> Come on....OPEN YOUR EYES! This "secret memo" is a SPAM! They don't > >> send spams to themselves! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > NO, they have not. it's at&t confidential information, not apple confidential information, so it's not for apple to sue. > Has Apple threatened them with a lawsuit if they don't remove it from the > website, as they have others? > > NO, they have not. which other websites has apple sued to have the at&t memo removed? > Ask yourself why..... as i mentioned, it's an at&t memo to its stores so apple isn't involved. if anything, it's for at&t to find out who leaked it and take appropriate action, should they decide to do so. also, journalists are not liable for reporting news, even if someone *else* violated an agreement. it's also all over the net. who is to say that gizmodo isn't reporting it after having read it elsewhere? whom do they sue first? <http://www.iphoneactiveren.nl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article &id=60:moeilijk&catid=1:homepagenieuws> <http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/06/09/iphone-3g-the-details-you-nev er-wanted-to-know/> <http://www.intoiphone.com/2008/06/10/att-iphone-3g-pricing-upgrade-call ingdata-plan-policies-revealed-no-more-revenue-sharing.html> <http://iphone.click2creation.com/index.php/2008/06/confidential-att-not e-some-2g-iphone-users-to-get-free-3g-iphone-upgrade-3-iphones-per-perso n-rule-remains-2g-iphones-still-activated-via-itunes/> <http://fatmatrix.com/att-memo-to-retail-managers-shows-iphone-3g-policy- iphone-3g.html> <http://phonereport.info/2008/06/10/att-with-apple-iphone-3g-details/> > I've never been inside ATT or Apple, but you boys are smarter than the > average joe, even OX. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Come on....OPEN YOUR EYES! This "secret memo" is a SPAM! They don't send > spams to themselves! As a former SBMS/Cingular dealer, I Can say with absolute certainty that "secret internal memos" often DO sound like advertising. > "***Confidential AT&T Information. For Internal Distribution Only.*** > AT&T and Apple today announced that the iPhone 3G will be available in the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > They don't sell products to the store managers.... Sure they do. They don't call it a "Compane Line" for nothing! ;-) The memo looked and sounded perfectly legit to me... nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in news:080720081537052603% nospam@nospam.invalid: > http://gizmodo.com/5014909/att-memo-to-retail-managers-shows-iphone-3g- "$30 - Unlimited Data (E-mail/Web), includes Visual Voicemail" God I hope Attorney General Cuomo in NY State reads this. It cost Verizon through the a.s to sell "unlimited" data that WASN'T unlimited and never has been. ATT needs a taste of some of that venom to stop this sh.t. Email and web browsing are NOT "unlimited data".... > "$30 - Unlimited Data (E-mail/Web), includes Visual Voicemail" > > God I hope Attorney General Cuomo in NY State reads this. It cost > Verizon > through the a.s to sell "unlimited" data that WASN'T unlimited and never > has been. ATT needs a taste of some of that venom to stop this sh.t. AT&T does allow "unlimited" web access on PHONES. They have a 5GB limit on aircards and any data plan that allows/includes tethering a PC or external device. Since the iPhone doesn't allow tethering, users can slurp as much data s they are willing to. > Email and web browsing are NOT "unlimited data".... That's up to AT&T to define- not you, I or even the NY AG, as long as the terms and restrictions are clearly spelled out to users. Verizon was slapped by the AG for calling 5GB "unlimited"- not for restricting the definition of "data" to web and e-mail. Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:g519d2$mi1$1 @aioe.org: > That's up to AT&T to define- not you, I or even the NY AG, as long as the > terms and restrictions are clearly spelled out to users. > Verizon was slapped by the AG for calling 5GB "unlimited"- not for > restricting the definition of "data" to web and e-mail. Nope, it is not. It is up to the Attorney General of the State of NY.....and the courts, if necessary, not me. This isn't about me....This is about ATT doing the same shitty advertising as Verizon Wireless.... Unlimited has been defined and THIS AIN'T IT! > > That's up to AT&T to define- not you, I or even the NY AG, as long as > > the terms and restrictions are clearly spelled out to users. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Unlimited has been defined and THIS AIN'T IT! How has the NY AG defined "unlimited" differently than AT&T? Again, they went after Verizon for capping a plan advertised as "unlimited" at 5GB. As I said, there is no transfer limit on AT&T's on-phone data plans, only tethered plans, which AT&T does NOT describe as "unlimited." > >> Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with > >> iPhone. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > iPhone has got to be less than that since the old iPhone has an inferior > feature set. yes, that's a plausible plan... but not many will want to go through a credit check, pay $175, then cancel a few days later just to make a few $100... a lot of work for not much money. come friday, 1.0 iphones will be exactly the same as the new ones, other than 3G and a few other tweaks... so for most people that only use WiFi, it will be a better deal than having a slower 3G phone that they rarely would use. > > also, a lot of iphones on ebay are purchased by people living in > > countries where the iphone is not available at all. ebay is one of the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the SIM lock. Relying on overseas buyers to continue to keep the > resale price of the old phones high might not be a good bet. yep! it will be interesting to see how the huge country launch will do to iphone prices... but the fact will remain the 1.0 phones are the most usable... at least, without having to pay huge fees. > yes, that's a plausible plan... but not many will want to go through a > credit check, pay $175, then cancel a few days later just to make a few > $100... a lot of work for not much money. Not everyone will do it for profit- assumig the 2.0 is able to be unlocked, some will buy to use it on T-Mo, or perhaps prepaid. > come friday, 1.0 iphones will be exactly the same as the new ones, other > than 3G and a few other tweaks... "Tweaks" like GPS? > > yes, that's a plausible plan... but not many will want to go through a > > credit check, pay $175, then cancel a few days later just to make a few > > $100... a lot of work for not much money. > > Not everyone will do it for profit- assumig the 2.0 is able to be unlocked, > some will buy to use it on T-Mo, or perhaps prepaid. we'll see... but att will supposedly offer unsubsidized 2.0 versions priced at $599 and $699 once initial demand has eased. > > come friday, 1.0 iphones will be exactly the same as the new ones, other > > than 3G and a few other tweaks... > > "Tweaks" like GPS? iphone 1.0 already has quite decent GPS through skyhook, so i doubt anyone will see the difference of having that additional "checkoff" item. > Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with iPhone. > Hack it and save hundreds. apple won't allow you to pay cash for an iPhone. plus to get one, you must sign a 2 year contract, thus the value of non-contract, "unlocked" iPhones remains high... Tell a co-worker that. He went and bought one with a apple gift card that he bought for the purpose of getting a iPhone. Went to buy a gift card with _cash_ then a day later he bought the iPhone. He never activated it. Hacked it and sold it for 50.00 more. No name was given for the two yr contract being he never activated it on AT&T. The name he gave apple for there records was bogus. >> Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with >> iPhone. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > plus to get one, you must sign a 2 year contract, thus the value of > non-contract, "unlocked" iPhones remains high... > Tell a co-worker that. He went and bought one with a apple gift card that he > bought for the purpose of getting a iPhone. Went to buy a gift card with > _cash_ then a day later he bought the iPhone. He never activated it. Hacked > it and sold it for 50.00 more. No name was given for the two yr contract > being he never activated it on AT&T. The name he gave apple for there > records was bogus. a gift card is one way around the cash restriction, but it's an awful lot of hassle just to make $50. but that was for the old iphone. the iphone 3g will not be sold without activation, at least in the short term. when they do start selling non-contract phones, it will be $400 more. that's why iphones on ebay sell at a premium. the alternative is not any cheaper. > the iphone 3g will not be sold without activation, at least in the > short term. when they do start selling non-contract phones, it will be > $400 more. I read that they will also require ID like a drivers license.  SignatureCharles >>> Stupid people. Walk into any apple store and pay cash. Walk out with >>> iPhone. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > being he never activated it on AT&T. The name he gave apple for there > records was bogus. That's the way it used to work with the old iPhone with its unsubsidized price. Since the price of the new iPhone is now subsidized by the contract it seems likely that Apple won't be letting you out of their store with a new $200 phone without having done the paper work and credit check required to sign you up for a contract. It will be interesting to see how that works out. The idea of giving someone in an Apple store my SSN is unappealing to me for reasons that probably aren't rational. Dennis Ferguson > > Tell a co-worker that. He went and bought one with a apple gift card that > > he [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > someone in an Apple store my SSN is unappealing to me for reasons that > probably aren't rational. i fully agree... it's the neanderthal, "price fixing" cell industry that is in error... not apple, not the iphone, nor or any rational person. if you buy a "computer" you don't need to PAY for a contract to connect to the internet... so the IDEA of paying for a 2 year contract is COMPLETELY out of line, unethical and simply won't stand... it's criminal... since prices aren't dropping year to year in line with normal technology trends. the entire cell industry is "corrupt" but I sure you know that... > if you buy a "computer" you don't need to PAY for a contract to connect > to the internet... so the IDEA of paying for a 2 year contract is > COMPLETELY out of line, unethical and simply won't stand... actually that business model has been tried. buy a cheap pc (like $100 or something) as long as you sign up for 2 years of internet service. >> That's the way it used to work with the old iPhone with its unsubsidized >> price. Since the price of the new iPhone is now subsidized by the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > i fully agree... it's the neanderthal, "price fixing" cell industry that > is in error... not apple, not the iphone, nor or any rational person. Since the iPhone is the ONLY device in AT&T's arsenal that requires a two-year contract to purchase it, I'd say Apple is as guilty as anyone here. Any other AT&T-sold device can be bought cash-n-carry (at unsubsidized price), put on a one-year contract (in return for a smaller subsidy), activated month-to-month, or put on prepaid service. Only the iPhone REQUIRES a two-year deal, apparently. > if you buy a "computer" you don't need to PAY for a contract to connect > to the internet... so the IDEA of paying for a 2 year contract is > COMPLETELY out of line, unethical and simply won't stand... But you COULD- People PC and AOL both offered PC price subsidies back in their day. Like with most cellphones, it was OPTIONAL- the customer could take advantage of the subsidy if they chose. > it's criminal... since prices aren't dropping year to year in line with > normal technology trends. Sure they are; normal technology trends are that new technology items are high priced, then drop until a natural "bottom" is found, then that low-end becomes more featured rather than continuing to drop in price. Cellular has been around nearly THREE DECADES. Wholesale cost has bottomed out at about $30-40, and those low-end handsets get better and more featured every year- those $30 handsets are a tenth of the size and weight, and have far more features, than my circa-1987 Tandy CT-350, which wholesaled for $800. That's right in line, trend-wise, with "mature" technology products like TVs and VCRs. VCRs are four decades old, yet they still cost $30-40- they hit "bottom" years ago. > the entire cell industry is "corrupt" but I sure you know that... Oh, please. It's a business like any other. You could argue that fast food is also "corrupt" and "price fixed." Everyone's value menu seems coincidentally "fixed" a $1 per item, and a chain's "signature" sandwich runs about $3 from any of them, regardless of who sells it or what's in it. A competitive marketplace tends to resemble "price fixing" since the low-cost leader sets the bar, and everyone else decides how close to that bar they are willing or able to go. If one grocery store sells a loaf of Wonderbread for $1.99, the others can't get $5 for it. When they all end up at or near $2, it's not price-fixing, it's competition! > Tell a co-worker that. He went and bought one with a apple gift card that he > bought for the purpose of getting a iPhone. Went to buy a gift card with [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > plus to get one, you must sign a 2 year contract, thus the value of > > non-contract, "unlocked" iPhones remains high... Sure... you can use a Gift Card, even buy a Gift Card with Cash, then buy an iPhone... but you can't "Walk into an Apple Store, pay in cash, and Walk Out" with an iPhone... My fact stands is the point... (ps, don't TOP Post on USENET... it makes you look ignorant) >Is it worth the $$$$$ >Flat Millions of folks bought the first model, and hundreds of folks are already oline in front of stores for the 3G model which starts selling July 11, so they think so. Folks brainwashed by Micro$oft like the Tiolt, also an expensive phone. > Millions of folks bought the first model, and hundreds of folks are > already oline in front of stores for the 3G model > which starts selling July 11, so they think so. > > Folks brainwashed by Micro$oft like the Tiolt, also an expensive > phone. I like the Tilt, but I don't consider myself "brainwashed by Microsoft" as I also see it is a flawed device- battery life is pathetic, minor features important to me (like Infrared) are missing, the software has a few minor bugs. It is the best mobile phone I've ever owned, however- it improves on my last WinMo phone (HTC Wizard/T-Mobile MDA) in many significant ways- more memory, more storage, increased stability, faster, a comparatively decent camera, and on-board, user-accessable, GPS. While certainly more challenging and akward to use than the iPhone, it does many things the iPhone simply doesn't, at least not yet, anyway- remote desktop, NNTP, VoIP/Skype, voice dial/control, etc. To each their own... |
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