Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / July 2008
iPhone negativity
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anonymousNetUser - 14 Jul 2008 03:40 GMT Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart like me go to get get reliable info?
Oxford - 14 Jul 2008 04:10 GMT > Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart > like me go to get get reliable info? you can always ask me, I don't hold any bias either way.
what is your question...
Larry - 14 Jul 2008 05:11 GMT Oxford <apony@pasture.com> wrote in news:apony-F4FE62.21100913072008 @news.qwest.net:
> you can always ask me, I don't hold any bias either way. > > what is your question... Will it play Flash movies?
Will it play embedded RealVideo from BBC?
Will it play Divx movies?
Can I change the battery if it goes dead during the day, like my sellphone?
Does it have an external memory card slot so I can swap movies and music around at my whim?
Can I cut text and pictures out of a webpage and save them to its word processor or notepad and store them on its memory for later?
Can I cut text out of a webpage and email it as an attachment to my girlfriend's computer?
Can I send my girlfriend an SMS on Verizon to have sex with her at lunch?
Can I install Skype for Mobile or Skype for sellphones so I can chat with my friends on Skype in Siberia, or will I still have to carry my Playstation PSP to call them? What about other VoIP systems like Gizmo?
Will it record video of my kids waterskiiing for the first time?
Can I download music, movies, ebooks, PDF files from usenet or peer-2-peer and play them from the memory?
Can I watch international TV on a stand-alone player in full screen mode?
....valid questions....eh?
Oxford - 14 Jul 2008 05:43 GMT > Will it play Flash movies? not until Adobe comes out with their cell version
> Will it play embedded RealVideo from BBC? and why would you want to play anything in .rm format?
> Will it play Divx movies? not needed, just play them in MPEG4
> Can I change the battery if it goes dead during the day, like my sellphone? not needed, the battery in the iphone lasts longer than you need
> Does it have an external memory card slot so I can swap movies and music > around at my whim? just use the internet as your memory card, sounds like you've never used a mac.
> Can I cut text and pictures out of a webpage and save them to its word > processor or notepad and store them on its memory for later? not needed, sounds like you've never used a mac.
> Can I cut text out of a webpage and email it as an attachment to my > girlfriend's computer? just send her the real thing, sounds like you've never used a mac.
> Can I send my girlfriend an SMS on Verizon to have sex with her at lunch? yes, of course.
> Can I install Skype for Mobile or Skype for sellphones so I can chat with > my friends on Skype in Siberia, or will I still have to carry my > Playstation PSP to call them? What about other VoIP systems like Gizmo? yes, of course.
> Will it record video of my kids waterskiiing for the first time? yes, of course.
> Can I download music, movies, ebooks, PDF files from usenet or peer-2-peer > and play them from the memory? yes, of course.
> Can I watch international TV on a stand-alone player in full screen mode? > > ....valid questions....eh? yes, of course.
but do you have any serious questions?
nospam - 14 Jul 2008 05:49 GMT > Will it play Flash movies? adobe has demoed flash and another person has ported flash lite.
> Will it play embedded RealVideo from BBC? real is a proprietary protocol and it's up to them to write a player. so far, they've not announced anything.
> Will it play Divx movies? vlc has been ported.
> Can I change the battery if it goes dead during the day, like my sellphone? you could, but it's inconvenient. for most people the battery will last the whole day, so this is moot.
> Does it have an external memory card slot so I can swap movies and music > around at my whim? it has enough internal memory for the vast majority of users.
> Can I send my girlfriend an SMS on Verizon to have sex with her at lunch? you could but she might say no.
> Can I install Skype for Mobile or Skype for sellphones so I can chat with > my friends on Skype in Siberia, or will I still have to carry my > Playstation PSP to call them? What about other VoIP systems like Gizmo? right now there's <http://s4iphone.com/index_iphone.jsp>
there is also truephone and fring, and i'm sure more will appear.
> Will it record video of my kids waterskiiing for the first time? video recording was demoed months ago.
> Can I download music, movies, ebooks, PDF files from usenet or peer-2-peer > and play them from the memory? yes, but not from usenet or p2p. and with major isps such as verizon and time warner dropping usenet, it's somewhat moot. nevertheless there's nothing precluding someone from writing a newsreader or p2p client, other than exceeding cell bandwidth usage. over wifi it should be fine.
> Can I watch international TV on a stand-alone player in full screen mode? i've not seen that yet, but no doubt it's coming. there's streaming radio already.
anonymousNetUser - 15 Jul 2008 02:50 GMT > Oxford <apony@pasture.com> wrote in news:apony-F4FE62.21100913072008 > @news.qwest.net: > >> you can always ask me, I don't hold any bias either way. >> >> what is your question... Don't know where you got this list of questions... They're not ones I care about.
> Will it play Flash movies? Don't care.
> Will it play embedded RealVideo from BBC? Don't care.
> Will it play Divx movies? Don't care.
> Can I change the battery if it goes dead during the day, like my sellphone? Doesn't matter. The phone was a gift. Got a car charger and a extra cable to charge it from my computer at work. Don't need to change the battery.
> Does it have an external memory card slot so I can swap movies and music > around at my whim? I don't listen to music. If I want music, I'll go to a concert or a nice show. And I can't watch movies at work without getting fired.
> Can I cut text and pictures out of a webpage and save them to its word > processor or notepad and store them on its memory for later? Aren't webpages copyrighted works? If so, to cut and paste stuff from them is plagiarism at best and copyright infringement or theft at worst.
> Can I cut text out of a webpage and email it as an attachment to my > girlfriend's computer? No girlfriend. Wife's gone. RIP Dearest.
> Can I send my girlfriend an SMS on Verizon to have sex with her at lunch? Please, a little decency... I eat at lunch. There's a time and place for other activities.
> Can I install Skype for Mobile or Skype for sellphones so I can chat with > my friends on Skype in Siberia, or will I still have to carry my > Playstation PSP to call them? What about other VoIP systems like Gizmo? Don't have a clue what this stuff is.
> Will it record video of my kids waterskiiing for the first time? Kids bought me a video tape for that. And they are way past the "kids" stage. All married--unfortunately none have given me any grandkids.
> Can I download music, movies, ebooks, PDF files from usenet or peer-2-peer > and play them from the memory? I buy books and read them at my leisure. Why would I want to read them on this tiny screen?
> Can I watch international TV on a stand-alone player in full screen mode? That's what I've got cable for.
> ....valid questions....eh? No.
I'm middle-aged. I just want a phone that makes calls (mostly for emergency use, heaven forbid I have an accident or heart attack or something), and has a few toys to show off to my friends. The Maps thing is nice, but just about everything is too small to read. How the heck do you make the text size larger?
Larry - 15 Jul 2008 05:11 GMT anonymousNetUser <mickey@disney.com> wrote in news:NnTek.25347$LR1.17978 @newsfe10.phx:
> Don't care. Noone gives a sh.t what YOU want....They want answer to valid questions....a simple YES or NO, not some fanboi deflection to avoid saying NO.
See, that's the problem. Noone stuck with one wants to say "No, it won't play Flash or Realvideo or Realaudio or Windows Media streams that 97.8% of the streaming sources on the net use, especially the important commercial new services.
So, we go into "politician mode" with stupid comments and personal inuendo instead of "Yes" or "No", it will or it won't.
FruitFones.....NEVER a discouraging word....right?
Will the Nokia Linux Tablets play JAVA programs on web pages?
NO, DAMMIT! Can you hear me Nokia?!.....(c;
They never made the deal with Sun....(sigh)....
Too bad NOAA uses Java for Nexrad Radar....
See? That didn't hurt a bit, except the edge of my hand beating on the keyboard tray's sharp edge....
anonymousNetUser - 15 Jul 2008 15:40 GMT > anonymousNetUser <mickey@disney.com> wrote in news:NnTek.25347$LR1.17978 > @newsfe10.phx: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > questions....a simple YES or NO, not some fanboi deflection to avoid saying > NO. If I buy a product, then *I* give a <your word, not mine> about what I want. Your questions are only relevant if the person buying the product wants every option available. And quite frankly I don't. Let's take cars for example: I have a comfortable three-door hatchback. Does it go 0 to 60 in 4 seconds? No. But I don't care if it did. I wouldn't drive it that way even so. Does it have a Hemi engine. Once again, No, but I don't care. The 5-cylinder VW engine works just fine for me.
Just because some new gadget doesn't have EVERY little feature doesn't make it bad. Sometimes less is more.
So far, I've found my iPhone satisfactory for what *I* want. And I'm sick and tired of people like you trying to tell me what I *should* want.
I want simplicity, I want reliability, I want value for my money. It's why I buy Glock, why I buy VW, and why I buy Apple.
> See, that's the problem. Noone stuck with one wants to say "No, it won't > play Flash or Realvideo or Realaudio or Windows Media streams that 97.8% of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > FruitFones.....NEVER a discouraging word....right? I've got a few discouraging words. I'm a realist not a politician trying to make everyone happy.
I can't see the screen half the time. There's apparently no way to increase the text and icon size for older people like myself that would appreciate that sort of thing.
The EDGE and 3G coverage in my area isn't very good.
The screen smears way too much. But I've had that problem with every phone. Even my ancient Nokia got skin oils all over it if I used it more than a couple times. Gently clean with a soft rag and it's fine.
> Will the Nokia Linux Tablets play JAVA programs on web pages? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > See? That didn't hurt a bit, except the edge of my hand beating on the > keyboard tray's sharp edge.... Calm down. You're going to give yourself a heart attack.
Carl - 15 Jul 2008 17:56 GMT >> anonymousNetUser <mickey@disney.com> wrote in >> news:NnTek.25347$LR1.17978 @newsfe10.phx: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I want simplicity, I want reliability, I want value for my money. It's > why I buy Glock, why I buy VW, and why I buy Apple. And now we know why you remain anonymous. ;-)
anonymousNetUser - 16 Jul 2008 02:48 GMT >> I want simplicity, I want reliability, I want value for my money. It's >> why I buy Glock, why I buy VW, and why I buy Apple. >> > And now we know why you remain anonymous. ;-) I haven't posted on Usenet with my real e-mail address or name since around 1993. Too much spam.
Carl - 17 Jul 2008 10:24 GMT >>> I want simplicity, I want reliability, I want value for my money. >>> It's why I buy Glock, why I buy VW, and why I buy Apple. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I haven't posted on Usenet with my real e-mail address or name since > around 1993. Too much spam. Well I was just being satirical on the "Why I buy..." theme of yours, and moved it to "Why I remain...", but I get where you're coming from.
Larry - 15 Jul 2008 05:13 GMT anonymousNetUser <mickey@disney.com> wrote in news:NnTek.25347$LR1.17978 @newsfe10.phx:
> I'm middle-aged. I just want a phone that makes calls (mostly for > emergency use, Then you CERTAINLY don't want or need a FruitFone. Those are much cheaper on much better carriers than ATT;....
anonymousNetUser - 15 Jul 2008 15:44 GMT > anonymousNetUser <mickey@disney.com> wrote in news:NnTek.25347$LR1.17978 > @newsfe10.phx: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Then you CERTAINLY don't want or need a FruitFone. Those are much cheaper > on much better carriers than ATT;.... You obviously didn't read my whole post. It was a GIFT from my kids! And I'm too poor to afford to get another phone on my own income.
Not everyone here buys their phones out of their own pocket. Some inherit something older as a hand-me-down. Some have them assigned to them through their employer. And some, like me, are lucky enough to have one as a gift.
My kids thought that the touch screen would be easier to use than pressing a bunch of little buttons. And so far, it does seem to be easier on my arthritic hands. As I've said before, my main compliant is the size of the pictures and text on the screen. Too small for old eyes. I'm not a teenager anymore.
Larry - 15 Jul 2008 16:23 GMT anonymousNetUser <mickey@disney.com> wrote in news:8J2fk.26285$1L1.16325 @newsfe15.phx:
> You obviously didn't read my whole post. It was a GIFT from my kids! And > I'm too poor to afford to get another phone on my own income. You have 30 days to take it back and exchange it for one that suits your needs better....not to mention is less fragile and much easier to carry...
anonymousNetUser - 15 Jul 2008 20:30 GMT > anonymousNetUser <mickey@disney.com> wrote in news:8J2fk.26285$1L1.16325 > @newsfe15.phx: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You have 30 days to take it back and exchange it for one that suits your > needs better....not to mention is less fragile and much easier to carry... What don't you get about this?
IT WAS A GIFT!
If I take it back, it'll offend the giftgiver. Besides, a few minor issues aside, I sort of like it. The touch screen is definitely easier on my old arthritic fingers than those tiny little buttons on other phones. I just wish I could see the screen better.
4phun - 15 Jul 2008 12:14 GMT > I'm middle-aged. I just want a phone that makes calls (mostly for > emergency use, heaven forbid I have an accident or heart attack or > something), and has a few toys to show off to my friends. The Maps thing > is nice, but just about everything is too small to read. How the heck do > you make the text size larger? You can find in iPhone email a setting to bump the default text up all the way to GIANT. I am sure one of them will be ok for you unless you are blind.
I think I saw an application yesterday to have text read to you to so that may help some people who are blind.
anonymousNetUser - 15 Jul 2008 15:46 GMT >> I'm middle-aged. I just want a phone that makes calls (mostly for >> emergency use, heaven forbid I have an accident or heart attack or [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I think I saw an application yesterday to have text read to you to so > that may help some people who are blind. Changing the text size in the e-mail app doesn't help with all the other apps, nor with the home screen--which you have to use to get to the mail app.
4phun - 15 Jul 2008 17:36 GMT > Changing the text size in the e-mail app doesn't help with all the other > apps, nor with the home screen--which you have to use to get to the mail > app. OK Hold down the mail icon until it wobbles. Drag it off screen to teh right to a new screen.
Keep doing this until it is on a screen all by itself and then press the HOME button to lock it in place.
To use just flip all the screens along until you find the one with only one icon on it.
Or you could merely move the icon to eitehr the extreme right or left of the bottom task bar so you could locate Mail instantly from any screen.
When sending mail to yourself or notes to your self from your PC - use RTF or HTML select all text and bump it up to 18 or more. You can get the stuff so large a person sitting across the room could read it on that little screen.
anonymousNetUser - 15 Jul 2008 20:33 GMT >> Changing the text size in the e-mail app doesn't help with all the other >> apps, nor with the home screen--which you have to use to get to the mail [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > the stuff so large a person sitting across the room could read it on > that little screen. Nice workaround, but it only helps with mail. What about maps? I'd like to use that application too. But once again, the icon is so small, I sometimes can't see it and open something else instead. Once it's open and I can zoom in, it's fine.
There's more than enough room on this screen to increase the size of the icons and text. Okay, maybe you're stuck with only three icons or even two across instead of four, but it's doable. I guess all those designers and programmers are too young to notice this. You'd think that Steve was getting a little long in the tooth and would have this same complaint, but maybe he's rich enough to buy some bionic eyes.
Carl - 17 Jul 2008 10:27 GMT >>> Changing the text size in the e-mail app doesn't help with all the >>> other apps, nor with the home screen--which you have to use to get [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > that Steve was getting a little long in the tooth and would have this > same complaint, but maybe he's rich enough to buy some bionic eyes. Have you considered an eye exam and eyeglasses? Or do you have an eye condition that precludes glasses from working well?
anonymousNetUser - 18 Jul 2008 01:22 GMT >>>> Changing the text size in the e-mail app doesn't help with all the >>>> other apps, nor with the home screen--which you have to use to get [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Have you considered an eye exam and eyeglasses? Or do you have an eye > condition that precludes glasses from working well? I'm old, not dumb.
Yes, I get new glasses every year. And I still have a hard time, even with reading glasses, seeing small print.
It's mostly just age; the eyes don't change focus as fast. So if I'm working and focused on a computer monitor and the phone rings, I can't adjust focus fast enough to see who's calling. The eye's want to stay focused on the computer monitor about 3 feet away, but my arms are only about 2 ft long. So even holding the phone at arm's length doesn't help much.
Carl - 18 Jul 2008 04:22 GMT >>>>> Changing the text size in the e-mail app doesn't help with all the >>>>> other apps, nor with the home screen--which you have to use to get [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > only about 2 ft long. So even holding the phone at arm's length > doesn't help much. A fair answer. I am in the optical business so was just wondering. Just so you know, there is a lens that will allow you to focus almost instantly at both distances. My favorite lens solution to this problem is the Sola Access. Ask your local optician/optometrist about it. If they don't know, go somewhere else until you find someone who does. Honestly, if they are not familiar with this lens, they are not, imo, people at the top of their game. I wear them and love them.
Read this article (which I had nothing to do with: I just found it for you with a google search): http://www.compukiss.com/reviews/sola-access-lens.html
You may thank me later.
anonymousNetUser - 18 Jul 2008 10:17 GMT >>> Have you considered an eye exam and eyeglasses? Or do you have an eye >>> condition that precludes glasses from working well? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > You may thank me later. Ah. Carl Zeiss... if anyone can solve this problem, they can. I love the Zeiss lenses in my two Leica cameras (another product that "just works right").
I'll ask my optician about this the next time I get glasses. Due to go for my annual exam in a month or so.
Larry - 18 Jul 2008 15:25 GMT "Carl" <crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote in news:48800ca9$0$7337 $607ed4bc@cv.net:
> http://www.compukiss.com/reviews/sola-access-lens.html Someone needs to fix the Zeiss dealer search engine. I put in my address to look for a "dispenser" and it found 5 locations INSIDE THE TRAILER PARK!
None of my redneck neighbors knows anything about optometry. They think glasses come from Dollar General or Walmart....(c;
So, how many hundred dollars are these Sola lenses....I mean for the pair...
Carl - 18 Jul 2008 17:06 GMT > "Carl" <crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote in news:48800ca9$0$7337 > $607ed4bc@cv.net: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > So, how many hundred dollars are these Sola lenses....I mean for the > pair... They are actually a form of what is known as "progressive multifocals", or to some, "invisible bifocals". What they've done is eliminate the DISTANCE part (and thereby getting rid of the inherent problems associated with having that in the lens too) and made it just an INTERMEDIATE (ie. computer) lens combined with a NEAR (ie. reading) section at the bottom. By eliminating the distance part, this lens appears to avoid both the peripheral distortions associated often with progressive multifocals and the narrow midrange section associated with progressive multifocals as well. As well, the transition from intermediate to near seems more seamless.
We sell them relatively cheaply at, I believe, $129 or $139 per PAIR (not per lens Larry). I would speculate that they they may be more elsewhere, as they are worth it, I think. We sell a lot of them, relative to the overall market, probably because I promote them personally, and I keep them inexpensive. We have gotten, over the years, a miniscule number of "failures" with this lens (though there always will be some - part of human nature, I suppose). But I can almost guarantee that they will eliminate or reduce anonymous's problem as described.
Larry - 19 Jul 2008 01:58 GMT > They are actually a form of what is known as "progressive > multifocals", or to some, "invisible bifocals". What they've done is [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > with progressive multifocals as well. As well, the transition from > intermediate to near seems more seamless. Hmm...I'll have to check them out. The big computer screen (28" LCD that rotates for text in portrait mode) I use 1.5 reading glasses as I'm 62 with hardened corneas, but luckily equal in both eyes. For the little Nokia N800 tablet's 4" screen, I swap to a 3.75 reading glasses so I can make the tiny text on the 800 pixel wide screen big enough to read.
I think I'm going to 4.00 on the next pair. I'll have to find another source as Walmart has backed off on high power reading glasses to 3.50. I was just there today looking at them.
I do fine work on electronics with very fine soldering operations that take a very close lens. I use an electronics worker's magnifier that cost me plenty for that. It also protects the eyes from the lead smoke pouring out of the joint and off the iron. I've been breathing lead fumes in this business since I was 10. It partially explains why I'm crazy.
Larry - 14 Jul 2008 04:22 GMT anonymousNetUser <mickey@disney.com> wrote in news:R0zek.20713$1L1.737 @newsfe15.phx:
> Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart > like me go to get get reliable info? I'm sorry if we may have presented you with this vision. I don't think any of us who post here hate any piece of hardware, or even software. What we seek is to convey "Truth in Advertising", against a hard core of Apple fanbois who think Apple can do no wrong, make no mistakes, and build products 20 years ahead of everyone else, which is simply not true.
Seeking to point out any products flaws, omissions, in sellphones especially the hobbling up of common functions users expect to function, is, of course, not appreciated by those blindly following the company's hype. Each product from any manufacturer needs to be thoroughly investigated and reported for all to see, so the more savvy don't get taken in the sales process.
Simply put, if it's crap, it should be reported as crap.
The Iphone 3G, a modification of 2G, is simply an Ipod and internet browser with a built in mediocre sellphone lacking many common features most sellphones of any price include....like voice dialing, Bluetooth Stereo headphone support, great reception and audio quality, a good speakerphone, a loud ringer if you desire it loud.
This product is NOT just the finest piece of equipment that will ever be kluged together from a stack of chip makers. It's cute, it's a chick magnet of sorts, it's pretty....it's not revolutionary.
Stick around and dump on us what you find out. They make a lot of noise and call you nasty names like a bunch of teenagers under a bridge with chains and knives, but it's just noise.
All this matters not, anyways as Apple is holding up the product to keep the fanbois drooling who are still waiting for theirs....to prevent discounting too soon. It didn't work with the 2G model as discounting was nearly immediate at that awful price point. 3G has them on a "time payment plan" with ATT acting as the collection agency/banker. 3G phones are NOT $199 once you've made the awful monthly payments for 2 years. Do the math.
Charles - 14 Jul 2008 10:24 GMT > Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart > like me go to get get reliable info? I would suggest Howard Forums.
http://www.howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=115
 Signature Charles
4phun - 14 Jul 2008 15:56 GMT > In article <R0zek.20713$1L1....@newsfe15.phx>, anonymousNetUser > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > -- > Charles BINGO!
The first truly valid post in this thread. I recommend HowardForums also.
Another way to farm the Internet for iPhone info is to set up an Alert Summary of iPhone news using a Goggle bot.
Don't forget that Apple has a great multimedia web site devoted to passing on help on understanding their products and how to use them.
Still another is do a search for iPhone on Digg and while viewing the results save it as an RSS FEED if you know how. Iit will become an excellent source for farming the net for useful information long before people like Larry even become remotely aware of breaking developments. Larry BTW is aware of the truth but likes to take a contrarin position just for the hell of it. I like Larry. I think of him as like that uncle Rev Wright that Obama has.
Some of the others I see here merely like to spread FUD which in the case fo the iPhone stands for CRAP. You see those who spread it are full of it!
FUD is another way of deceiving people by appealing to Fear Uncertainty and Doubt. It is fascinating to see what they come up with IMHO.
Todd Allcock - 14 Jul 2008 18:21 GMT > Another way to farm the Internet for iPhone info is to set up an Alert > Summary of iPhone news using a Goggle bot. Or, rather than do that, you can just wait a few minutes and 4phun will cut and paste them all here! ;-)
> Don't forget that Apple has a great multimedia web site devoted to > passing on help on understanding their products and how to use them. You certainly aren't going to get an unbiased account from the device's manufacturer! (iPhone or otherwise...)
> Some of the others I see here merely like to spread FUD which in the > case fo the iPhone stands for CRAP. You see those who spread it are > full of it! While much of the anti-iPhone noise her is certainly FUD, some of it is legitimate critisicm. There are serious deficiencies in the iPhone, as well as much to applaud. Prospective buyers should make sure they can live with the former while enjoying the latter.
> FUD is another way of deceiving people by appealing to Fear > Uncertainty and Doubt. It is fascinating to see what they come up with > IMHO. Yes it is- however it's equally fascinating, at least to me, to see long- used computing and smartphone features and functions heralded as cutting- edge because Apple is involved, like Oxy's continued assertion that VoIP on the iPhone is the "end of cellular."
Despite the fact that VoIP isn't the "end of cellular" anyway, he ignores the fact that handheld VoIP phones- most of which are cheaper than an iPhone and DON'T require a two-year cellular contract to purchase have been around for years, and haven't threatened cellular yet. (And never will, unless WiFi becomes far more ubiquitous and handles handoffs between APs seamlessly.)
Flathead - 14 Jul 2008 12:58 GMT > Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart > like me go to get get reliable info? Check out a TILT
DevilsPGD - 14 Jul 2008 18:36 GMT >> Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart >> like me go to get get reliable info? > >Check out a TILT How would that get him info about the iPhone?
(I'm a TILT owner myself, but I'm still curious)
Carl - 14 Jul 2008 13:07 GMT > Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart > like me go to get get reliable info? Actually, I think you're misreading the newsgroup and way misjudging its value. As you can tell from this thread alone, there are strong advoates of, and strong naysayers of, the iPhone here. You can not get BETTER information than from a group where BOTH sides are offered; where debate rages freely. Your apparent "dream" newsgroup where everyone loves the iPhone would never be a source of reliable information.
Your "knowledge" will come from reading everything that's posted here, for as long as you can take it. :-) Then make your own judgments from what you read.
I'm not (yet) an iPhone user, nor am I an AT&T customer, but I come here to learn as much about the iPhone as possible.
anonymousNetUser - 15 Jul 2008 02:54 GMT >> Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart >> like me go to get get reliable info? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > rages freely. Your apparent "dream" newsgroup where everyone loves the > iPhone would never be a source of reliable information. They may be knowledgeable as you say, but do they have to be so nasty about it? A little decency never hurt anyone. That's what's wrong with this country now. No one cares about anyone but themselves apparently.
> Your "knowledge" will come from reading everything that's posted here, for > as long as you can take it. :-) Then make your own judgments from what you > read. Been making my own judgements for as long as I've lived. And taking responsibility for my own mistakes. Been doing it too long it's habit now.
> I'm not (yet) an iPhone user, nor am I an AT&T customer, but I come here to > learn as much about the iPhone as possible. Carl - 15 Jul 2008 15:59 GMT >>> Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old >>> fart like me go to get get reliable info? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > about it? A little decency never hurt anyone. That's what's wrong with > this country now. No one cares about anyone but themselves apparently. I am in agreement with you on that score 100%. I don't get where that nasty edge comes from either. But don't overlook my statement, below, where I say, "as long as you can take it". That's what I was referring to. That said, this forum may still be the best place to get "reliable" and complete may I say, information about the iPhone. A lot of filtering is needed, that's all. Good luck.
anonymousNetUser - 15 Jul 2008 20:27 GMT >>>> Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old >>>> fart like me go to get get reliable info? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > say, information about the iPhone. A lot of filtering is needed, that's all. > Good luck. Someone in this tread recommended the Howard Forums website. Checked it out last night and it's been great so far. A lot of complaints about 3G coverage (or lack thereof), but not nearly the amount of negativity that this group has.
Ron - 14 Jul 2008 13:32 GMT >Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart >like me go to get get reliable info? Right here. Ignore the Windoze, Mototola or Nokia cheerleaders.
anon - 14 Jul 2008 14:34 GMT > >Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart > >like me go to get get reliable info? > > Right here. Ignore the Windoze, Mototola or Nokia cheerleaders. You mean all three or four of them ;-) You really need to use kill files in this group. And they use sock puppets so you should learn how to filter their IP address.
As for accurate info on the iPhone just skip over the boring trolling nonsense form Larry, the Bob, and their several sock puppets.
By ignoring the 3 or 4 jealous Wiindoze, Nokia and Motorola fan boys you get the gist of the excitement the iPhone is creating in this group and around the world.
Ron - 14 Jul 2008 15:12 GMT >> >Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart >> >like me go to get get reliable info? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >You really need to use kill files in this group. And they use sock >puppets so you should learn how to filter their IP address. Most ISPs supply a dynamic IP, so that can change from day to day.
>As for accurate info on the iPhone just skip over the boring trolling >nonsense form Larry, the Bob, and their several sock puppets. Amen -
>By ignoring the 3 or 4 jealous Wiindoze, Nokia and Motorola fan boys >you get the gist of the excitement the iPhone is creating in this group >and around the world. Carl - 14 Jul 2008 17:55 GMT >>> Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old >>> fart like me go to get get reliable info? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > you get the gist of the excitement the iPhone is creating in this > group and around the world. That last paragraph of yours would be the antithesis of what the OP is trying to accomplish: that is, get "reliable info" about the iPhone. I didn't read that he wanted "excitement" info from exuberant iPhone fans. I think he wants "reliable info" which comes from reading BOTH sides. I'm not a personal fan of Larry's particularly, but his points about iPhone's deficits are generally accurate and should be strongly considered by those seeking "reliable info" and should be taken into account in seeking a viewpoint which is balanced against the over-exuberance of, say, an Oxford or 4phun. Taken TOGETHER, one may gain a balanced picture.
anon - 14 Jul 2008 23:26 GMT > I'm not a personal fan of Larry's particularly, but his points about iPhone's > deficits are generally accurate Larry is a troll and self admitted criminal. He has been proven to be about 90% incorrect.
> seeking "reliable info" and should be taken into account in seeking a > viewpoint which is balanced against the over-exuberance of, say, an Oxford > or 4phun. Taken TOGETHER, one may gain a balanced picture. This is the Fox News "fair and balanced" argument and it makes no sense. The truth is NOT balanced, it is the truth.
For the most part,Oxford and 4Phun post facts. They should NOT be taken together with Larry's opinions and falsehoods.
Todd Allcock - 15 Jul 2008 05:09 GMT > > I'm not a personal fan of Larry's particularly, but his points about iPhone's > > deficits are generally accurate > > Larry is a troll and self admitted criminal. He has been proven to be > about 90% incorrect. While some of his opinions, and the conclusions he draws, are questionable (though often humorous), most of his FACTS are correct.
But I'm not at all surprised by your statement- there seems to be problem with several posters here distinguishing between opinion and fact.
Sure, Larry was wrong about the GPS chip in the iPhone Jr., (based on the early teardowns referenced here) but he admitted his error when more accurate info surfaced.
Even in today's "visit to the AT&T store" post, for example, he never said the iPhone's WiFi _couldn't_ be shut off- just that neither he nor the salesperson couldn't find the menu to do it, (then he launched into a typical, and ridiculous, Larry conspiracy theory as to why AT&T wouldn't want you to shut it off.) So, incorrect conclusions and ridiculous opinions? Yes. Incorrect facts? No.
> > seeking "reliable info" and should be taken into account in seeking a > > viewpoint which is balanced against the over-exuberance of, say, an Oxford > > or 4phun. Taken TOGETHER, one may gain a balanced picture. > > This is the Fox News "fair and balanced" argument and it makes no sense. > The truth is NOT balanced, it is the truth. Agreed, if we're talking about "facts," yes. Again, however, the difficulty here seems to be identifying the difference between facts and opinion (just like on Fox News, ironically!)
The balance of OPINION from multiple viewpoints, however, can be very valuable, much like movie reviews- if Roger Ebert likes most of the same movies as I did, and for the same reasons I did, I can likely trust his opinions of movies I haven't seen yet. Virtually every reliable (professional journalist) critique of the iPhone agrees it's an excellent device with a few serious flaws. Has Oxford ever acknowledged a flaw? No, he dismisses them either as advantages ("Flash eats batteries,") unnecessary (voice dialing isn't needed since you shouldn't operate a cellphone in a car) or inconsequential in some Apple's/Jobs' Masterplanned Future Reality (3G is obsolete/unnecessary because mass adoption of the iPhone will drive the development of ubiquitous free nationwide WiFi. Yes, Oxford actually said that after the iPhone 1.0 release. I couldn't make this stuff up!)
> For the most part,Oxford and 4Phun post facts. Only By coincidence- they _mostly_ simply repost iPhone-favorable blog entries or news articles, often without any attribution, and often without regard to the reliabilty of the original source. (CNet, for example, might generally be considered more reliable than some generic consumer blogger. Without attributions, we can't gauge reliability.) Oxford, in particular, generally editorializes after the quoted blog/news item, usually without any clear indication (other than the natural change in tone from journalistic to lunatic) of what was a quote, and what were his additional coments. (Of course, why should we expect the use of quotation marks from a guy who hasn't mastered capitalization yet.) This of course, gives him the perfect alibi when he posts absolute stupidity ("don't blame me, blame the author") that anyone with his claimed knowledge or credentials should have seen was incorrect from the get go.
> They should NOT be taken > together with Larry's opinions and falsehoods. Really? Tell us some of Larry's "falsehoods" (as opposed to his crazy opinions.)
Let's review, OTOH, some of Oxford's recent "facts" off the top of my head:
He answered "yes" to a question about Skype (via Fring) and cut-and-paste being available on the iPhone (without qualifying that only jailbroken phones can run those apps- an important caviat, wouldn't you agree?) then explained (in a different post) how the new app store makes jailbreaking iPhone 3Gs unnecessary (huh?). He was also corrected by TWO different developers today about his "facts" pertaining to the SDK ans app development. And, of course, there's nothing wrong with being wrong- one normally apologizes for the error, or thanks the replier for the correction, and everyone moves on. But not Oxford- he ignores any corrections and/or belittles the poster with a quip like "I only post facts" or "you don't understand how Apple products/modern technology works..." That damages credibility.
Oxford's, and to a lesser extent, 4phun's "opinions" are frankly no crazier than Larry's- VoIP on iPhones will be the end of cellular, Apple will have 60% cellular marketshare in 5 years, Nokia and/or Verizon will be out of business in a couple of years, or that GPS built into the iPhone will put Garmin, etc. out of business. Compared to that, Larry's crap about Mossad evesdropping on our phone calls, and the Moon landings being faked, seem almost plausible...
The REAL difference, however, is we know, from prior posts and context, EXACTLY who Larry is- a good ol' boy 60+ year-old curmudgeon, and a ham radio operator who plays with computers and electronics as a hobby and also to help with his organ repair biz. Who, though, is Oxford? We know that he claims to be an Apple "expert/insider" with hundreds of "clients," many of whom he's "advised" to buy iPhones. He lives in a "technologically advanced" city of 210,000, yet posts from Qwest's Minneapolis region- (frankly, if you live in a Qwest area, how "technologically advanced" can it be? Qwest only operates in 14 midwestern/mountain states. I'm on Qwest in Denver- it's not exactly Silicon Valley here!) His last/only "wireless phone" before the iPhone was a Macbook running VoIP! He has "met with/talked to Steve Jobs" but he never gives any specific credentials, (or denies the fake credentials we've invented for him: stockboy/salesperson in a Twin Cities Apple Store, which could actually fit ALL of his claims if you think about it!) ;-)
Larry doesn't pretend to have any more expertise than that of a ham and a consumer, while Ox tells us he's "smarter than 90% of people," an "expert" in the computer industry and laments that the rest of us can't "understand how things work" like he does.
Take Larry's posts for what they're worth, but Oxford has clearly demonstrated that he has zero credibility on matters pertaining to wireless- he's failed to grasp basic concepts of cellular, and is VERY ignorant of non-Apple devices. He knows the features of the iPhone very well- I'll give him that, but without the context of knowing what the competition offers, he doesn't know in what areas the iPhone lags, and instead just spouts rhetoric like "it's the most technologically advanced phone ever built" or "other phones will all work like this in 17 years..."
He's a trolling clown, and his buffoonery makes all of his posts suspect, which is unfortunate because he could've been a useful resource about the iPhone here if he'd proven himself to be reliable. Sadly, finding facts in his rants is a needle/haystack situation, made all the more regretful since some of his needles are actually worth finding.
Carl - 15 Jul 2008 16:17 GMT >>> I'm not a personal fan of Larry's particularly, but his points >>> about iPhone's deficits are generally accurate [quoted text clipped - 137 lines] > made all the more regretful since some of his needles are actually > worth finding. Amen. One of the most complete and intelligent posts I've seen on this (or any other) n.g. in a long time. You've hit a lot of nails on the head. I'm sure there will be those who try to retort, but they would be foolish to try. IMHO there's not an error in your post to refute. Thanks.
Todd Allcock - 15 Jul 2008 19:55 GMT > IMHO there's not an error in your post to refute. Thanks. Probably a lot of typos. I composed the whole post on my Windows Mobile phone, an AT&T Tilt, with a stylus. (Look how Todd deftly brings the conversation back on topic!) ;-)
The freeware newsreader program, QMail, that I use, is an excellent and powerful piece of software, but it's a little slow registering input sometimes, and lacks a spellchecker. After nearly a decade of using Windows CE-based PDAs, I can generally peck faster than the program can receive the input. I try to catch the typos when I review my posts before sending, but sometimes I'm lazy and too many get through.
Carl - 15 Jul 2008 16:10 GMT >> I'm not a personal fan of Larry's particularly, but his points >> about iPhone's deficits are generally accurate [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > For the most part,Oxford and 4Phun post facts. They should NOT be > taken together with Larry's opinions and falsehoods. Read Todd's post in response to this. He says it much better than I can, and he's been a member of this group longer, so he has a better handle on each player.
However, I do want to emphasize, in line with one aspect of Todd's post, that upon reading YOUR post, I immediately thought you had a problem distinguishing between opinions and facts. Neither Oxford nor 4phun typically post citations for their expressed "facts". That you believe them on the face value of them saying so just means that you're a biased observer yourself.
Regardless of your opinion of Larry (and mine by the way), his list of "questions" about iPhone functionality had a lot of merit, imo. Those questions should not just be blown off as the rantings of a crazy person. They have validity and beg for answers.
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