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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / July 2008FSF offers 5 reasons to avoid iPhone 3G
So now the Apple fanboys and the Gnu fanboys will have it out: http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/5-reasons-to-avoid-iphone-3g From the article: iPhone completely blocks free software. Developers must pay a tax to Apple, who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be on everyone's phones. iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) technology. iPhone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others to track you without your knowledge. iPhone won't play patent- and DRM-free formats like Ogg Vorbis and Theora. iPhone is not the only option. There are better alternatives on the horizon that respect your freedom, don't spy on you, play free media formats, and let you use free software -- like the FreeRunner. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. > So now the Apple fanboys and the Gnu fanboys will have it out: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Apple, who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be on > everyone's phones. incorrect, there will be easy ways to add apps outside of the online app store in a few weeks. there are lots of medical, finance, science apps that don't need to be distributed via itunes. > iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) > technology. no it doesn't, apple won't use DRM. > iPhone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others to track you > without your knowledge. wow, totally incorrect again... if you don't want to share your location, turn off location services. and you'd have to "agree" to be tracked if you didn't turn that off so it's not a problem anyway. > iPhone won't play patent- and DRM-free formats like Ogg Vorbis and Theora. but those formats are pointless, it plays all the main DRM free ones without issue. > iPhone is not the only option. There are better alternatives on the > horizon that respect your freedom, don't spy on you, play free media > formats, and let you use free software -- like the FreeRunner. mark, is that all you have left? i proved each one of those incorrect in less than 2 minutes. why do you hate facts so much? > but those formats are pointless, it plays all the main DRM free ones > without issue. flac? shn? > > but those formats are pointless, it plays all the main DRM free ones > > without issue. > > flac? shn? those are obscure as well... i said: "all the main DRM free ones" AAC, MP3, MP3 VBR, Audible (formats 1, 2, and 3), Apple Lossless, AIFF, and WAV. Oxford <apony@pasture.com> amazed us all with the following in news:apony- B4FF9D.22230314072008@n003-000-000-000.static.ge.com: >> > but those formats are pointless, it plays all the main DRM free ones >> > without issue. >> >> flac? shn? > > those are obscure as well... i said: "all the main DRM free ones" They are hardly obscure. flac is the leader in lossless file use, and shn is not far behind. And one more to add to the list that is also widely used and not supported by the iPhone- wma. > They are hardly obscure. flac is the leader in lossless file use, and shn > is not far behind. but they are still a fraction of 1% even on the best days. > And one more to add to the list that is also widely used and not supported > by the iPhone- wma. wma isn't a good enough quality format. >> They are hardly obscure. flac is the leader in lossless file use, >> and shn is not far behind. > > but they are still a fraction of 1% even on the best days. Maybe to a neophile like you. To most serious audiophiles, they are the only way to go. >> And one more to add to the list that is also widely used and not >> supported by the iPhone- wma. > > wma isn't a good enough quality format. Compared to what? > They are hardly obscure. flac is the leader in lossless file use, and shn > is not far behind. people don't generally put lossless music on a portable music player because it takes up too much space and it's impossible to hear the difference anyway, so the fact that it doesn't play flac is moot. > And one more to add to the list that is also widely used and not supported > by the iPhone- wma. itunes converts it. >> They are hardly obscure. flac is the leader in lossless file use, >> and shn is not far behind. > > people don't generally put lossless music on a portable music player > because it takes up too much space and it's impossible to hear the > difference anyway, so the fact that it doesn't play flac is moot. With larger storage capacity, space is not a concern. And the fact that it does not play it demonstrates that it's not the "media-friendly" device that Oxtard purports it to be. >> And one more to add to the list that is also widely used and not >> supported by the iPhone- wma. > > itunes converts it. But it doesn't play it. With conversion comes data loss. With data loss, comes sound degradation. If it were the wundertoy that the fanbois claim it to be, conversion would not be necessary. Especially for such a common file type. > >> They are hardly obscure. flac is the leader in lossless file use, > >> and shn is not far behind. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > With larger storage capacity, space is not a concern. one will always be able to load more mp3/aac songs than lossless, regardless of how much space is on the device (any device). there's always a tradeoff. > And the fact that it > does not play it demonstrates that it's not the "media-friendly" device > that Oxtard purports it to be. lossless (not just flac) is a niche format that doesn't really matter to most users, whether it's an ipod or any other media player. the vast majority of people listen to ipods and other players in situations where any difference will not be noticable, and also using less than perfect headphones, so why waste the space for lossless when it will sound the same? > >> And one more to add to the list that is also widely used and not > >> supported by the iPhone- wma. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > it to be, conversion would not be necessary. Especially for such a common > file type. that only matters if a difference can be heard. but as i've said before, if you have a lot of wma then the ipod isn't the best choice. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in news:150720081832159306% nospam@nospam.invalid: > that only matters if a difference can be heard. but as i've said > before, if you have a lot of wma then the ipod isn't the best choice. Let's talk about STREAMING..... What do we do, convert the WM and Realvideo/audio to AAC on the fly? I'm watching CCTV-4 from Bejing on the N800 from my wifi at the moment: mms://72.166.136.132/cctv4-200 using mplayer in streaming mode. The picture is beautiful, but everybody is talking backwards...(c; There's some kind of Communist job show on at the moment. I'm for candidate 3, myself. He looks like a nice guy that deserves it.....whatever it is....(c; Full Screen 4:5 color video and mono audio from the front speakers... I hope they have lots of coverage of the games when they start. There's something odd about this gameshow. All the questions are multiple choice and the question and answers are in Chinese, of course. But, very curiously, each answer is labeled: A - B - C - D - not in Chinese text....?? I also noticed the "contestants" all seem to be foreigners, not Chinese. Maybe they're selling them as slaves!.... Back to the topic at hand...what do we do about streaming?? It's a shame iPhone won't play realvideo or realaudio from BBC's great webpages. I'm sure a deal for the sake of the customers could be made between Steve and Real, like it was with Nokia.... Ah, I think I figured out the gameshow! It's about foreigners' ability to speak, read and write CHINESE! That's what the panel of experts seems to be critiquing... Grand prize is an extended visa...losers will be sent to the work camps. > I'm watching CCTV-4 from Bejing on the N800 from my wifi at the moment: > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Grand prize is an extended visa...losers will be sent to the work camps. We need to get a game show like that here for all the illegals to play. Beer Drinking Dog <photodoglv@yahoo.com> wrote in news:vgefk.27454 $tN1.20467@newsfe14.phx: > We need to get a game show like that here for all the illegals to play. Big advertising campaign about the big prizes and amnesty. "Contestant Door" opens right up to the back of the ICE prisoner bus. When that one's loaded, another one replaces it as the first bus is on its way to the border...(c; > And one more to add to the list that is also widely used and not > supported by the iPhone- wma. wma, wmb, ogg, flac, rm, rma, rmb, avi, xvid, MP4 are all covered with a few free codec installs and mplayer on the N800.....(c; ....AND, you can set the tablet in offline mode so nothing interrupts the movie! If the separate sellphone rings, of course, the movie goes on playing as if it hadn't....(c; ...of course, all the streams play, including realvideo/audio and Flash... It is quite funny to see Oxford go head-to-head against the Gnu people! >> iPhone completely blocks free software. Developers must pay a tax to >> Apple, who becomes the sole authority over what can and can't be on >> everyone's phones. > incorrect, there will be easy ways to add apps outside of the online app > store in a few weeks. there are lots of medical, finance, science apps > that don't need to be distributed via itunes. Presumably, Oxford is assuming that there will be a jailbreak for the 3G iPhone. But Oxford claims that there is no long a need for jailbreak. Hmm...looks like the kid can't keep his story straight. >> iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) >> technology. > no it doesn't, apple won't use DRM. Apple "won't" use DRM, eh? But Apple does use it now. There is certainly DRM associated with media downloaded from iTunes now. Oxford apparently has a crystal ball that says that Apple will stop using DRM. So, Oxford, when will Apple stop using DRM? >> iPhone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others to track you >> without your knowledge. > wow, totally incorrect again... if you don't want to share your > location, turn off location services. and you'd have to "agree" to be > tracked if you didn't turn that off so it's not a problem anyway. Argue about that with FSF, not me. >> iPhone won't play patent- and DRM-free formats like Ogg Vorbis and Theora. > but those formats are pointless, it plays all the main DRM free ones > without issue. It will be interesting to see what happens after Oxford graduates from high school and has to work at a real job instead of McDonalds. Maybe he will come to understand why patent encumbrance is a problem. >> iPhone is not the only option. There are better alternatives on the >> horizon that respect your freedom, don't spy on you, play free media >> formats, and let you use free software -- like the FreeRunner. > mark, is that all you have left? i proved each one of those incorrect in > less than 2 minutes. These are FSF's argments, not mine. Why doesn't the Oxtard argue them with FSF? > why do you hate facts so much? I don't hate facts. It's a fact that the FSF people know much more than cretin Apple fanboys like Oxford. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. > It is quite funny to see Oxford go head-to-head against the Gnu people! most in the Gnu crowd are pure idiots, so it's easy to prove them wrong. > > incorrect, there will be easy ways to add apps outside of the online app > > store in a few weeks. there are lots of medical, finance, science apps [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Hmm...looks like the kid can't keep his story straight. ah, now that apps added through iTunes, all anyone needs to do is add them to iTunes and sync... easy stuff. so it sounds like you don't understand the iPhone no longer needs to be jailbroken... so your story is still stuck on info from 10 days ago. > >> iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) > >> technology. > > no it doesn't, apple won't use DRM. > > Apple "won't" use DRM, eh? But Apple does use it now. There is > certainly DRM associated with media downloaded from iTunes now. The record companies use DRM, not Apple... DRM is in nothing they produce. Apple hates DRM with a passion, it just doesn't match their anarchistic style. > Oxford apparently has a crystal ball that says that Apple will stop using > DRM. So, Oxford, when will Apple stop using DRM? Apple doesn't use DRM, only the Record Companies do, Apple has pulled DRM out of much of Recording Company's Music since it was bad for customers and the Recording Companies finally figured that out... and the app store has no DRM. > >> iPhone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others to track you > >> without your knowledge. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Argue about that with FSF, not me. Well, I think everyone has to laugh at FSF on that one, they were SO incorrect on all of those "reasons" it was like a comedy show. > >> iPhone is not the only option. There are better alternatives on the > >> horizon that respect your freedom, don't spy on you, play free media [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > These are FSF's argments, not mine. Why doesn't the Oxtard argue them > with FSF? You mistakenly posted that erroneous FSF link, so you are at fault for not checking content for validity. > > why do you hate facts so much? > > I don't hate facts. It's a fact that the FSF people know much more than > cretin Apple fanboys like Oxford. But I was able to prove every single one of their "facts", as incorrect. The FSF is just a has-been organization run by numbskulls like stallman. They contribute nothing to society, but only to feed their poor egos. > most in the Gnu crowd are pure idiots, so it's easy to prove them wrong. I wonder if Oxford realizes that most of the software on his beloved iToy is Gnuware? > ah, now that apps added through iTunes, all anyone needs to do is add > them to iTunes and sync... easy stuff. It is not possible to sync applications that have not been signed by Apple. > so it sounds like you don't understand the iPhone no longer needs to be > jailbroken... so your story is still stuck on info from 10 days ago. Poor Oxford, can't make up its mind. First it says that jailbreaking is no longer necessary, then it points to applications that require a jailbreak, then it says that jailbreaking is no longer necessary, then... Oxford would do well living in North Korea. Never have to think for itself, just prattle whatever the Party says. > The record companies use DRM, not Apple... DRM is in nothing they > produce. Apple hates DRM with a passion, it just doesn't match their > anarchistic style. Then why are all the media files in iTunes encumbered by DRM? > Apple doesn't use DRM, only the Record Companies do, Apple has pulled > DRM out of much of Recording Company's Music since it was bad for > customers and the Recording Companies finally figured that out... Then why are the media files in iTunestill s encumbered by DRM? > and > the app store has no DRM. The mandatory signing constitues DRM. > Well, I think everyone has to laugh at FSF on that one, they were SO > incorrect on all of those "reasons" it was like a comedy show. No, we're all laughing at Oxford. > You mistakenly posted that erroneous FSF link, so you are at fault for > not checking content for validity. There's nothing invalid in what the FSF says in that link. > But I was able to prove every single one of their "facts", as incorrect. Someone ought to send Oxford a dictionary, so that he learns the meaning of "prove". > The FSF is just a has-been organization run by numbskulls like stallman. > They contribute nothing to society, but only to feed their poor egos. I must remember to pass on that little tidbit to certain people I know when Oxford tried to get a job. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. In article <apony-6723E3.20104314072008@n003-000-000-000.static.ge.com>, Oxford <apony@pasture.com> wrote: > > iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) > > technology. > > no it doesn't, apple won't use DRM. yes they will. iphone apps are code signed. > > > iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) > > > technology. > > > > no it doesn't, apple won't use DRM. > > yes they will. iphone apps are code signed. but signing is not related to DRM. it's only used to provide: Authentication - to prove the item does indeed come from the source that it says it comes from. Integrity - to prove the item has not changed since it was signed. and that's it. In article <apony-CE7850.00023815072008@n003-000-000-000.static.ge.com>, Oxford <apony@pasture.com> wrote: > > > > iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) > > > > technology. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > and that's it. and eliminating piracy (until it's circumvented). >> > > iPhone endorses and supports Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) >> > > technology. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >and that's it. By refusing to run unsigned apps, the iPhone is the definition of DRM. > >Integrity - to prove the item has not changed since it was signed. > > > >and that's it. > > By refusing to run unsigned apps, the iPhone is the definition of DRM. no, it's just verification of the developer, it has nothing to do with "content". >> So now the Apple fanboys and the Gnu fanboys will have it out: >> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > why do you hate facts so much? Oxford- I try to follow these point-counterpoint threads with an objective eye, but I have to point out that you didn't "prove" anything incorrect that he listed. You refuted them, true, but provided no evidence that anything you said was more valid than what he said. Speaking last doesn't make you more right. So, how do you know that Apple "won't use DRM"? Can you show me that you "have to agree to be tracked" (you're implying that tracking s Off by default)? How do you know that you'll be able to add apps outside of the online app store ? Etc. > So, how do you know that Apple "won't use DRM"? because Apple and the Mac community won't allow it. It's simply a too counterculture based culture for something like trusted computing or DRM to be implemented. Apple is all about bringing down corporate power, bringing power to individuals, so those methods are the antithesis of Apple's and their owners mission. > Can you show me that you > "have to agree to be tracked" (you're implying that tracking s Off by > default)? How do you know that you'll be able to add apps outside of the > online app store ? Etc. whenever an app wants to use your location, you have to "agree", even the camera... now that it geotags, asks if you want to "allow" your position to be recorded within the photo. when you get your iphone, you'll see how it works. >There are better alternatives on the >horizon Aren''t there always? > >There are better alternatives on the > >horizon > > Aren''t there always? Not according to your pal Oxford who tells us the iPhone's 2,427 patents will prevent anything else from catching up for 17 years... ;-) >> There are better alternatives on the >> horizon > Aren't there always? That should go without saying. Don't assume that nose-tweaks aimed at mindless fanboys like Oxford are intended for you. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. > iPhone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others to track you > without your knowledge. Every cellphone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others to track you without your knowledge. The only way to avoid this is to switch the phone off and leave it at home. While you're about it, make a large cash withdrawal to make sure you're not using your credit cards, inflate your bicycle tires or get ready to walk so you can't be caught by automatic license plate recognition systems, and put on your headband full of high-intensity IR LEDs to defeat automatic face recognition systems. Be prepared to be tracked by manned surveillance cameras with operators who pay attention to what you wear. |
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