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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / July 2008How come this hasn't been talked about here?
I bought an iPod Touch in order to experiment with the iPhone interface because I have been considering switching carriers and getting an iPhone. Mine had the latest software and I immediately upgraded to Version 2.0 to achieve 100% iPhone similarity. In doing so, I have learned that many people are having trouble syncing their iPhones (and Touches) to MS Outlook. I, for example, cannot get my calendar to sync at all, in one direction or the other, though I've tried many things. This appears to me to be a HUGE flaw in the iPhone/iTunes technology and would certainly lock out any serious business users, and apparently render an important part of the iPhone useless. For one citation regarding this issue, look at http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7648777 I am just so surprised that this issue, which is not that new, has not come up here before. In the meantime, does anyone know of a solution, fix, or patch for the problem? >I bought an iPod Touch in order to experiment with the iPhone interface >because I have been considering switching carriers and getting an iPhone. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >In the meantime, does anyone know of a solution, fix, or patch for the >problem? Yes, go into I tunes and upgrade to 2.01 > I bought an iPod Touch in order to experiment with the iPhone interface > because I have been considering switching carriers and getting an iPhone. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > In the meantime, does anyone know of a solution, fix, or patch for the > problem? sounds more like a HUGE flaw in Outlook for Windows, not the iPod Touch. get a Mac i'll bet all those problems will disappear. > sounds more like a HUGE flaw in Outlook for Windows, not the iPod Touch. > > get a Mac i'll bet all those problems will disappear. Real helpful.....you are just confirming you are an idiot troll.  SignatureCharles > > sounds more like a HUGE flaw in Outlook for Windows, not the iPod Touch. > > > > get a Mac i'll bet all those problems will disappear. > > Real helpful.....you are just confirming you are an idiot troll. no charles, i provided the very best solution. so if you don't solid answers, then leave these fixes to the professionals like me. your noise helps no one. >>> sounds more like a HUGE flaw in Outlook for Windows, not the iPod >>> Touch. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > your noise helps no one. No David, I'm afraid I felt the exact same way as Charles when I read your post. It is a trolling post which actually helps no one, but your own need to think you're quick-witted. MS Outlook is a business standard. There is no replacement for it on a Mac. Many people are currently scambling to get their iPhones/Touches working with their Outlook. Google it. Outlook has synced perfectly with the Palm Pilot I had many years ago, it syncs flawlessly with my Dell Axim, and it syncs without question with my Blackberry Curve. I would suggest that you face the reality that Apple is not perfect, and that the iPhone system may have a flaw in it which needs addressing. In the meantime, I would suggest that if someone asks a legitimate question, and if you don't have the answer, you refrain from hijacking the thread with your nonsensical fan worship of a toy. >> I bought an iPod Touch in order to experiment with the iPhone interface >> because I have been considering switching carriers and getting an iPhone. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >get a Mac i'll bet all those problems will disappear. Given how many applications out there do manage to synchronize with Outlook just fine, I'd suggest that the problem might be on the iTunes side. For my own part, I played with the Outlook sync, found it unsatisfactory and disabled it. When upgrading to iTunes 7.7, iTunes helpfully duplicated dozens of appointments in Outlook. Calendar synchronization is disabled. A bit of group policy magic and iTunes' Outlook extension is administratively prohibited from running on any PC under my control, so the problem has been effectively solved here. >>> I bought an iPod Touch in order to experiment with the iPhone >>> interface because I have been considering switching carriers and [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > administratively prohibited from running on any PC under my control, > so the problem has been effectively solved here. A note to David and other unshakable fans of The Big Apple: this appears to be how many people handle technical issues with their Apple devices. They tend not to be vocal about them, but they just shut down the functions that don't work and move along. Thus the question posed by me in my OP: why hasn't this been talked about before? Believe me, there are a lot of closet, less-than-satisfied Apple owners out there. Posts like mine will bring them out. The Apple store was full of them yesterday. In the meantime, it would be much more helpful if one of you boy-geniuses found a solution to the problem instead of defending the damn device as if it was God-given. >A note to David and other unshakable fans of The Big Apple: this appears to >be how many people handle technical issues with their Apple devices. They [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >closet, less-than-satisfied Apple owners out there. Posts like mine will >bring them out. The Apple store was full of them yesterday. In my particular case, I was more interested in how well it worked (or didn't), then in actually using it. I believe very heavily in a structured synchronization methodology with a central "primary" source of information rather then chaining one storage to another to another to keep all of my toys in sync. In my case, I have chosen SyncML as my primary synchronization protocol. Despite having helped develop SyncML and being involved right from day one, and despite nearly every other mobile phone on the market having a SyncML client, Apple doesn't seem to have managed to get SyncML working on any of their own products. Funambol isn't too bad, although it has much of Funambol's typical quirkiness in terms of the GUI, and it's Contacts-only, not Calendar support (Apple didn't bother to create an API), nor Tasks (Apple didn't bother to create a database) I've found half a dozen quirks/bugs in the iPod Touch/iPhone, and took the time to bring up a couple via their forums, receiving responses of "well, just don't do that" to a couple repeatable crashes (notable ones being in Safari accessing only Apple.com, and in attempting to add songs to the "On-the-go" playlist in iPod mode -- Not what I'd normally consider niche features, given the device's marketing. The Safari bugs are still reproducible in 2.0, I haven't tested building a playlist yet) Since I'm relatively certain that Apple does have an internal QA team, there is no feedback from Apple when issues are mentioned, and since the reported issues don't get fixed, I make doing their QA work for them a priority relative to the QA cheques that Apple sends me. I have other companies that do pay for my QA services, and oddly enough, they do get my time. When it comes to my own time, I tend to report far more to smaller vendors, larger vendors like Microsoft and Apple make it harder to get information to them, so that is reflected in my interest in documenting bugs anywhere outside of usenet, blogs, and other discussion groups. > I believe very heavily in a structured synchronization methodology with > a central "primary" source of information rather then chaining one > storage to another to another to keep all of my toys in sync. I agree. In my family, I need to sync a Macintosh, two Windows systems with Outlook, two iPod Touchs, an iPod Nano, a Windows Mobile phone, a Nokia N800 tablet, and five ordinary phones. There's a couple of other devices too, but as they are more or less retired they are less important. Chaining is a nightmare. Not only doesn't it cover everything, but I have to have two chains that I must manually sync (as in my typing in updates from one to the other) since there is no way to attach the two chains. A primary source is the only sane way out. The problem is that I want to run that primary source rather than outsourcing it to the cloud. I shudder at the thought of running an Exchange server (or even OpenExchange); yet that seems to be the only viable choice. Even if I bite that bullet, Exchange won't cover everything. > In my case, I have chosen SyncML as my primary synchronization protocol. > Despite having helped develop SyncML and being involved right from day > one, and despite nearly every other mobile phone on the market having a > SyncML client, Apple doesn't seem to have managed to get SyncML working > on any of their own products. I have followed SyncML on and off for quite a while. I was planning to jump into active SyncML development work last year, but that project got killed. Sadly, as you noticed, SyncML doesn't solve the Apple problem. Since the Mac is the current always-on desktop computer, it would be nice if the primary source ran on the Mac. The problem is that the Mac doesn't have all the needed facilities, or doesn't have a good enough implementation of them. Part of the above-mentioned killed project was the idea of an Exchange Server Lite, which would be designed to be a glue that would look enough like Exchange that an Exchange-capable mobile device would sync with it, but would actually just proxy as a client to something else. That's how it would have differed from OpenExchange; the idea is (among other things) to get iCal on the Mac to peer with Outlook. That way, the primary source is established by user convention, and the primary can easily be redesignation as one of the current secondaries. SyncML does a lot (but not all) of this. > I've found half a dozen quirks/bugs in the iPod Touch/iPhone, and took > the time to bring up a couple via their forums, receiving responses of > "well, just don't do that" Yup, this is normal for the Apple forums. The forums are useless as a source of information for a power user. Amazingly, iToy 2.0 still has the same crippling limitation with recurring events. You need to use iCal to enter anything beyond the most basic recurrance rules. The iToy can display them; it just can't enter them. > Since I'm relatively certain that Apple does have an internal QA team, > there is no feedback from Apple when issues are mentioned, and since the > reported issues don't get fixed, I make doing their QA work for them a > priority relative to the QA cheques that Apple sends me. I have other > companies that do pay for my QA services, and oddly enough, they do get > my time. Yup. I've experienced all of that. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. >I've found half a dozen quirks/bugs in the iPod Touch/iPhone, and took >the time to bring up a couple via their forums, receiving responses of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >consider niche features, given the device's marketing. The Safari bugs >are still reproducible in 2.0, I haven't tested building a playlist yet) So today, I had no less then four Safari crashes, plus I managed to reproduce the iPod mode crash. Yay, thanks Apple. Only the verrrry good fruitphony stuff is talked about here Flathead > > sounds more like a HUGE flaw > In the meantime, does anyone know of a solution, fix, or patch for the > problem? Have you tried this? http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1692 SignatureCharles Charles <fort514@mac.com> wrote in news:220720080346244971%fort514 @mac.com: > http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1692 "Troubleshooting iPhone and iPod touch contact and calendar syncing via USB on Windows * Last Modified: July 10, 2008 * Article: HT1692 * Old Article: 305845 Summary If you're having difficulty syncing your contacts or calendars to iPhone or iPod touch with iTunes for Windows via USB, this article can help. Note this article does not apply to wireless syncing with Exchange ActiveSync or MobileMe. Products Affected iPhone, iPhone 3G Verify that you are using compatible software Syncing contacts or calendars to your iPhone or iPod touch requires that the latest version of iTunes is installed. Refer to "iPhone and iPod touch: Minimum system requirements" or the iPhone Users Guide for supported contact and calendar software on your computer. Reset Sync History If you find that some of your data syncs to your iPhone or iPod touch, but you see an unexpected number of changes or modifications, you may need to reset your sync history. This causes iTunes to prompt to Merge or Replace information on the device when you next attempt to sync your information. To reset your Sync History: 1. Open iTunes. 2. From the Edit menu, choose Preferences. 3. Click the Syncing tab. 4. Click the Reset Sync History button. If the issue continues and you know all of the data is on the computer: 1. Reset the Sync History again using the steps above. 2. Select the device in iTunes and click the Info tab. 3. Scroll down to the Advanced section and under "Replace information on this iPhone/iPod" select Contacts and/or Calendars. 4. Click Apply. If the issue continues and you know all of the data is on the iPhone or iPod touch: 1. Reset the Sync History again using the steps above. 2. Remove all of the contact and calendar information from Outlook. 3. Select the device in iTunes and click the Info tab. 4. Scroll down to the Advanced section and under "Replace information on this iPhone/iPod" make sure Contacts and Calendars are not selected. 5. Click Apply. Disable third-party Outlook add-ins Outlook add-ins created by other manufacturers may interfere with the communication between iTunes and Outlook. If you are using Outlook 2003 or Outlook 2007 and your calendars and contacts are not syncing properly to your iPhone or iPod touch, disable any third-party Outlook add-ins that are installed. For Outlook 2003, follow these steps to disable third-party add-ins: 1. Open Outlook 2003 2. From the Tools menu, choose Options. 3. Click the Other tab. 4. Click the Advanced Options button. 5. Click the COM Add-Ins button. 6. Determine whether any third-party (non-Apple) add-ins are present in this list. The add-in "iTunes Outlook add-in" is made by Apple and can be left alone. 7. Deselect the checkbox for each third-party add-in in this list. 8. Click OK. For Outlook 2007, follow these steps to disable third-party add-ins: 1. Open Outlook 2007 2. From the Tools menu, choose Trust Center. 3. Select Add-ins from the left column. 4. Look at the list of add-ins beneath "Active Application Add-Ins" and determine if anything is listed other than the "iTunes Outlook add- in." If so, continue on to disable those add-ins. 5. In the Manage box, click COM Add-Ins, and then click Go. 6. In the COM Add-Ins dialog, deselect the checkbox for each third- party add-in in this list. 7. Click OK. Attempt to sync content in a new Windows user It can be useful to determine if the issue affects a specific Windows user account or all accounts. Follow the steps below to create a new user account in Windows XP: 1. From the Start menu, choose Control Panel. 2. Open User Accounts. 3. Select Create a new account and follow the instructions to complete the account setup process. 4. Once the new account is created, choose Log Off from the Start menu. 5. Log into the newly created user account. In Windows Vista, follow these steps instead: 1. From the Start menu, choose Control Panel. 2. Open User Accounts. 3. Select Manager another account. 4. Select Create a new account and follow the instructions to complete the account setup process. 5. Once the new account is created, log off. 6. Log into the newly created user account. Once you are logged into the new user account, create a few test contacts and/or calendar events in your compatible application of choice and attempt to sync that data to your iPhone or iPod touch. Does this newly created data sync properly? If so, you likely have an issue with your content in the original user which you will need to isolate. Reinstall the iTunes software A bad installation of the iTunes software could prevent your contacts or calendars from syncing to your iPhone or iPod touch properly. To reinstall the necessary software for syncing data to your iPhone or iPod touch you will need to remove Apple Mobile Device Support and iTunes from your system before installing the latest version of iTunes. Windows XP 1. Quit iTunes. 2. On the Start menu, click Control Panel. 3. In Control Panel, open Add or Remove Programs. 4. Select iTunes from the list of currently installed programs, then click Remove. 5. When asked if you would like to remove iTunes, select Yes. 6. After the uninstallation is complete, do not restart if you are prompted to. 7. If other entries were present for iTunes remove those as well. 8. In Add or Remove Programs, remove Apple Mobile Device Support in the same fashion as iTunes was removed. 9. Restart your computer. 10. After the computer restarts, open Local Disk C: in My Computer or whichever disk programs are installed on. 11. Open the Program Files folder. 12. Right-click the iTunes folder and select Delete and choose Yes when asked to confirm the deletion. Note: This folder may have already been deleted if iTunes was successfully removed in steps 1-7. 13. Right-click on the Recycle Bin and on the shortcut menu, click Empty Recycle Bin. 14. Restart your computer. 15. Install the latest version of iTunes from www.apple.com/itunes/download. Windows Vista 1. Quit iTunes. 2. From the Start menu, click Control Panel. 3. In Control Panel, click Uninstall a program. The Programs and Features control panel opens. Alternately, in Classic Panel of Control Panel, click Programs and Features. 4. Select iTunes from the list of currently installed programs, then click Uninstall. 5. When asked if you would like to remove iTunes, select Yes. 6. After the uninstallation is complete, do not restart if you are prompted to. 7. If other entries were present for iTunes remove those as well. 8. In Programs and Features, remove Apple Mobile Device Support in the same fashion as iTunes was removed. 9. Restart your computer. 10. After the computer restarts, open Local Disk (C:) in Computer or whichever disk programs are installed on. 11. Open the Program Files folder. 12. Right-click the iTunes folder and select Delete and choose Yes when asked to confirm the deletion. Note: This folder may have already been deleted if iTunes was successfully removed in steps 1-7. 13. Right-click on the Recycle Bin and on the shortcut menu, click Empty Recycle Bin. 14. Restart your computer. 15. Install the latest version of iTunes from www.apple.com/itunes/download." Sure glad I don't have one.....(sigh) > Charles <fort514@mac.com> wrote in news:220720080346244971%fort514 > @mac.com: [quoted text clipped - 185 lines] > > Sure glad I don't have one.....(sigh) And I wouldn't mind all of that (I actually did it all), if it actually worked. But it didn't. It would be nice if Apple actually openly acknowledged the problem and came up with a patch for its iTunes 7.7. Or at least educated its in-store technicians (Geniuses) about it. None of them know in the store I go to. > And I wouldn't mind all of that (I actually did it all), if it > actually worked. But it didn't. It would be nice if Apple actually > openly acknowledged the problem and came up with a patch for its > iTunes 7.7. Or at least educated its in-store technicians (Geniuses) > about it. None of them know in the store I go to. I like the part where stupid Apple tells you to uninstall all your USABLE plug ins....just to get their shitware to sync. How stupid! >> And I wouldn't mind all of that (I actually did it all), if it >> actually worked. But it didn't. It would be nice if Apple actually [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > How stupid! And that is another point. I didn't even want to get into that, but you did. It's arrogant of them: "If you want to use our device, you must stop using everybody elses". That's just what I want to do: screw around with all my other working devices just to see if I can get this damn thing to work! And there's no guarantee that following their instructions will actually work anyway. As a matter of fact, in my experience, all of their suggestions were ueseless. > That's just what I want to do: screw around with all my other working > devices just to see if I can get this damn thing to work! And there's no > guarantee that following their instructions will actually work anyway. As a > matter of fact, in my experience, all of their suggestions were ueseless. That's a common problem in the Apple world. There is very little actual expertise within the "experts" at the Apple store, much less within the fanboy community. They know the interior of the walled garden well enough, but not much of what is beyond it. Nor do they have much of a clue as to what to do when some portion of the garden or its supporting wall fails. My favorite fanboy quote is "nobody needs to do that". I collect those. That is marketing data worth gold to Apple's competitors. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. > My favorite fanboy quote is "nobody needs to do that". I collect those. > That is marketing data worth gold to Apple's competitors. Didn't the Soviets used to say that about their people when they wanted to buy a car? I used to live in Iran, under the shah in '77-'79. My favorite Iranian quote like that was: "It is forbidden." That was the excuse for a lot of things Iranians and Moslems couldn't do that everyone else could do. "It is forbidden." The ultimate Nanny state copout. >> In the meantime, does anyone know of a solution, fix, or patch for >> the problem? > > Have you tried this? > > http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1692 Actually, yes, I found that article and tried all those suggestions, including resetting the sync history several times. But I do appreciate your sincere attempt at finding an answer. Thank you. One of the things I've found is that Apple is surprisingly unaware of the general problem (or at least pretending to be). In my own "research", it seems that the problem is related mostly to the iTunes 7.7 upgrade. Some 'upgrades' just ruin everything I guess. Apparently many people had the syncing process working well until they upgraded iTunes. Of course Apple, in its infinite wisdom, makes it particularly hard to revert backwards to an earlier version: I have read that you will lose the tunes you've paid for under the latest version, though I haven't confirmed that. Besides, who wants to go backwards in order to get a new device to work? I'm discouraged. I've already spent well over 7 or 8 hours trying to get something to work from a company which promotes itself as having the most successful work-out-of-the-box success. It has not been my experience so far. > I'm discouraged. I've already spent well over 7 or 8 hours trying to get > something to work from a company which promotes itself as having the most > successful work-out-of-the-box success. It has not been my experience so > far. the near perfect "work-out-of-the-box success" is based on you having a normal mac, but when you start to venture into the problematic windows world, all bets are off. microsoft is well known for breaking competitors software, so much of your experience is based on that. don't fight the rising tide, just get a mac and you'll be much happier. http://www.apple.com/mac/ >> I'm discouraged. I've already spent well over 7 or 8 hours trying to >> get something to work from a company which promotes itself as having [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > http://www.apple.com/mac/ Actually, I noticed a review yesterday for four miniature, dedicated video cameras, all by independent manufacturers. It was in yesterday's (Monday, 7/21) Newsday, Pt II, I believe. You can read it for yourself. The review warns Mac owners to be cautious because the vendors of THREE of the four don't supply software for Macs, only for Windows PCs. That's not the world I choose to live in, where choices are limited by the closed-architecture mentality of a Steve Jobs. Look, i think Apple products are generally great, own an iPod mini and a Touch. Wouldn't live without the iPod anyway (you can read about my travails with the Touch). But your rah-rah-sis-boom-bah mentality about Apple and its products is a little over the top, don't ya think? > Actually, I noticed a review yesterday for four miniature, dedicated video > cameras, all by independent manufacturers. It was in yesterday's (Monday, > 7/21) Newsday, Pt II, I believe. You can read it for yourself. The review > warns Mac owners to be cautious because the vendors of THREE of the four > don't supply software for Macs, only for Windows PCs. which cameras? drivers for a number of them are already built into os x, and 'just work.' > That's not the world I choose to live in, where choices are limited by the > closed-architecture mentality of a Steve Jobs. it's steve jobs' fault that a third party developer chose to not write software?? > > That's not the world I choose to live in, where choices are limited by the > > closed-architecture mentality of a Steve Jobs. > > it's steve jobs' fault that a third party developer chose to not write > software?? Sort of- since OS X is only sold as a "value add" to Mac hardware, despite actually being compatible with virtually any "Wintel" box on the market, Apple has limited OS X market share to it's current 6% (or whatever) of the market. If you're a small off-brand manufacturer of hardware, with limited software/driver development resourses, which platform do you market to? The one with 90% market share, or one of the others? Since Apple is really in the hardware business, (where 6% is a good number) rather than the software business, Mac OS is relegated to being a niche product. > In doing so, I have learned that many people are having trouble syncing > their iPhones (and Touches) to MS Outlook. I, for example, cannot get my > calendar to sync at all, in one direction or the other, though I've tried > many things. It's a longstanding problem, and it also affects iPod Nano. Sometimes, after repeated resyncing, some of your Outlook calendars and contacts appear. A hard reset or two sometimes helps, especially on the Nano. But then all the calendar/contacts data disappears after the next sync. If you jailbreak (or just enable disk access on the iPod Nano), you can poke around the filesystem and see see that the data actually did make it to the iToy. The problem is that the iToy doesn't display anything in calendar or contacts. > This appears to me to be a HUGE flaw in the iPhone/iTunes technology and > would certainly lock out any serious business users, and apparently render > an important part of the iPhone useless. Apple has known about the problem for years. The fact that it still is not remedied indicates the importance that Apple gives it. They apparently expect that you use a Mac; or, if you have 2.0, an Exchange server. Too bad that some Macs are incapable of upgrading the software on an iPhone or iPod Touch (attemping to do so results in an error). Apple has known about that for years as well, but as of 7.7 that remains unfixed. So, owners of the affected Macs must own a Windows machine to upgrade their iToys! -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. > Too bad that some Macs are incapable of upgrading the software on an > iPhone or iPod Touch (attemping to do so results in an error). Apple has > known about that for years as well, but as of 7.7 that remains unfixed. > So, owners of the affected Macs must own a Windows machine to upgrade > their iToys! that's complete BS mark. there is no modern mac that cannot update any ipod / iphone. as long as that mac is running the minimum required software version, ANY mac will update ANY apple device without issue. >> Too bad that some Macs are incapable of upgrading the software on an >> iPhone or iPod Touch (attemping to do so results in an error). [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > as that mac is running the minimum required software version, ANY mac > will update ANY apple device without issue. How do you KNOW this? Have you personally checked all "modern macs" David? And, by the way, what is a "modern mac"? >> there is no modern mac that cannot update any ipod / iphone. as long >> as that mac is running the minimum required software version, ANY mac >> will update ANY apple device without issue. > How do you KNOW this? Have you personally checked all "modern macs" David? > And, by the way, what is a "modern mac"? My Mac was purchased new from Apple in May 2005. It is incapable of updating an iPhone or iPod Touch, although it is capable of updating an iPod Nano or iPod Shuffle. Apple acknowledges the bug, and acknowledges that it is unfixed. Apple also acknowledges bugs in synchronization with Outlook, including the iToy's failure to show any calendar/contacts after synchronization even though the data demonstrably made it to the iToy. These are bugs. It is not remarkable that Apple has bugs. What is remarkable is how rabid fanboys deny that there are any bugs. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. > >> there is no modern mac that cannot update any ipod / iphone. as long > >> as that mac is running the minimum required software version, ANY mac [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > updating an iPhone or iPod Touch, although it is capable of updating an > iPod Nano or iPod Shuffle. apple sold various macs in 2005. which one and what configuration? > Apple acknowledges the bug, and acknowledges that it is unfixed. where did they acknowledge it and what exactly did they say? and why is this the only report that i've ever heard of it? i'm very skeptical. >> Apple acknowledges the bug, and acknowledges that it is unfixed. > where did they acknowledge it and what exactly did they say? Apple's bugtracker. > and why > is this the only report that i've ever heard of it? You haven't looked very hard. A simple Google search for certain iTunes 4-digit "Unknown error" codes will find numerous reports of problems with iPhone and iPod Touch software upgrades. > i'm very skeptical. Since you post as an anonymous user, your skepticism and opinions don't count. If you want to see the problem in operation, bring your iToy here and I will happily use my 1GB PowerPC G4 Mac Mini to get it irrecoverably stuck in Restore mode. I will then demonstrate how an older Windows laptop has no problem in loading the software. Apple should just include a Windows laptop in the box with every Mac sold, so that users can use the Windows machine to do the stuff that Mac can't do. Apple's overcharges so much, they can do this without any price increases. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. > >> Apple acknowledges the bug, and acknowledges that it is unfixed. > > where did they acknowledge it and what exactly did they say? > > Apple's bugtracker. they specifically said all powerpc g4 mac minis are unsupported? > > and why > > is this the only report that i've ever heard of it? > > You haven't looked very hard. A simple Google search for certain iTunes > 4-digit "Unknown error" codes will find numerous reports of problems with > iPhone and iPod Touch software upgrades. sure, there are plenty of bugs, but which one specifically states that a powerpc g4 mac mini can't update an iphone/ipod touch, a hardware configuration that's explicitly supported by apple? > If you want to see the problem in operation, bring your iToy here and I > will happily use my 1GB PowerPC G4 Mac Mini to get it irrecoverably stuck > in Restore mode. I will then demonstrate how an older Windows laptop has > no problem in loading the software. i don't doubt that you have a problem updating it, but to say that it's a hardware issue in *all* powerpc g4 mac minis is a *huge* leap. in the last few days i asked numerous people if they had heard of this (including people at apple and people who own a ppc g4 mac mini) and they laughed, especially the ones who own a ppc g4 mac mini. > Apple should just include a Windows laptop in the box with every Mac sold, > so that users can use the Windows machine to do the stuff that Mac can't > do. Apple's overcharges so much, they can do this without any price > increases. prices are comparable for similarly configured hardware. > > Apple's overcharges so much, they can do this without any price > > increases. > > prices are comparable for similarly configured hardware. Ah, but that's the great Mac Myth isn't? Macs are crammed full of so many "forced upgrades" that yes, they're "comparably priced" if you take a base PC and then add the laundry list of options (usually at MSRP, not "street price") to equate it to the Mac being discussed. Similarly, a $40,000 is "comparably priced" to a $20,000 car, if we're forced to outfit the $20,000 with the same options that come standard on the $40k ride. The price advantage of PCs comes from the competition between brands and the plethora of configurations available. Even if I accept your premise that my $299 low-end PC will cost $599 if I outfit it to match the features/specs of an entry-level Mac, it's MY option to do so or not to, depending on my needs for that particular PC. I can't, however, go into an Apple store and rip $300 worth of unneeded options off the $599 Mac to get it down to $299, can I? > Even if I accept your premise that my $299 low-end PC will cost $599 > if I outfit it to match the features/specs of an entry-level Mac, it's > MY option to do so or not to, depending on my needs for that > particular PC. Naw....just eliminate the Gates load from it and install a Linux. That'll make the $299 low end PC MUCH faster and bring the price down to $129. Even cheaper, buy a $25 Win98 box from the thrift shop and wipe the Micro $not off it, install the Linux to the bare box and reduce your costs to near zero. Add Open Office and you've got a serious business box for nearly free! It scares them to death....(c; ....and save those old 128MB RAM sticks, too! Programs are in KB, not MB! >>>> Apple acknowledges the bug, and acknowledges that it is unfixed. >>> where did they acknowledge it and what exactly did they say? >> Apple's bugtracker. > they specifically said all powerpc g4 mac minis are unsupported? Silly child. Apple said no such thing. Apple acknowledges that there is a bug, and that the bug is still unfixed. That says nothing about being "unsupported". It merely says that they haven't been able to fix it. A straw man argument is a logical fallacy. > sure, there are plenty of bugs, but which one specifically states that > a powerpc g4 mac mini can't update an iphone/ipod touch, a hardware > configuration that's explicitly supported by apple? Silly child. Nobody said any such thing. I said that some modern Macs can't update an iPhone/iPod Touch, that Apple has acknowledged the bug and that it is unfixed; that this problem happens on a PPC G4 Mac purchased new in May 2005; and that there are numerous reports from other users who have the same problem. > i don't doubt that you have a problem updating it, but to say that it's > a hardware issue in *all* powerpc g4 mac minis is a *huge* leap. Since nobody said "*all* PowerPC G4 Macs", your entire argument is a straw man fallacy. > in > the last few days i asked numerous people if they had heard of this > (including people at apple and people who own a ppc g4 mac mini) and > they laughed, especially the ones who own a ppc g4 mac mini. Once again, your argument is a fallacy: "my friends don't have a problem, therefore there is no problem." Argumentiam ad ignorantiam. Converse Accident. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. >>>> there is no modern mac that cannot update any ipod / iphone. as >>>> long as that mac is running the minimum required software version, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > apple sold various macs in 2005. which one and what configuration? What's the difference? The guy stated that "there is no modern mac that cannot update any ipod / iphone" and followed that with "ANY mac will update ANY apple device without issue" (the caps being his own). So why are we now nit-picking which model this poster has? Is this about to become one of those BUTs...? > >>>> there is no modern mac that cannot update any ipod / iphone. as > >>>> long as that mac is running the minimum required software version, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > nit-picking which model this poster has? Is this about to become one of > those BUTs...? the difference is that it's baseless assertion. he needs to provide the hardware configuration so that others can test it for themselves to see if his assertion is correct. the fact that he's vague about exactly how to duplicate it suggests that it's bogus. and the fact that i asked people who own the same hardware if they had a problem and they said no indicates that it's not the *mac* that's the problem. >>>>>> there is no modern mac that cannot update any ipod / iphone. as >>>>>> long as that mac is running the minimum required software [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > a problem and they said no indicates that it's not the *mac* that's > the problem. No, sorry. One of us is having trouble with the basic of the English language here. Perhaps it's me. If someone says, "ANY mac will update ANY apple device without issue" and the responder states that "My Mac was purchased new from Apple in May 2005", that meets the criterion of "ANY mac", and no further qualification is necessary. Said another way, if some of youse guys is gonna state absolutes, you need to live with what you've said afterwards. No "ands, ifs or buts" after the fact please. >> he needs to provide the hardware configuration so that others can test >> it for themselves to see if his assertion is correct. the fact that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > purchased new from Apple in May 2005", that meets the criterion of "ANY > mac", and no further qualification is necessary. Youngsters such as our fanboy have not yet developed adult reasoning patterns, and so they can't be expected to understand your argument. Interestingly, besides giving relevant case numbers in Apple's bug tracker, I identified that it was a 1.25GHz PPC G4 based Mac desktop with 1GB of RAM. That narrows it down to a very few models that were sold in May 2005. The particular model in question was introduced a few months previously, and was still sold as recently as two years ago. Now I expect the fanboy to claim that a PPC based Mac (or anything else more than a year old) is not "modern". Try telling that to most adults who expect a computer to be useful for more than a year or so. > Said another way, if some of youse guys is gonna state absolutes, you need > to live with what you've said afterwards. No "ands, ifs or buts" after the > fact please. The only absolute that I offer is that it is typical fanboy behavior to deny that the object of worship has any flaws, or that anyone could possibly be experiencing problems that are not due to that person's stupidity. It isn't just Apple fanboys who behave this way. It is associated with other manufacturers of overpriced "elite" products marketed to mostly younger consumers as the epitome of "quality". BMW and Sony come immediately to mind, although both have lost considerable glitter in recent years. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. >>> there is no modern mac that cannot update any ipod / iphone. as long >>> as that mac is running the minimum required software version, ANY [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > including the iToy's failure to show any calendar/contacts after > synchronization even though the data demonstrably made it to the iToy. The amount of memory used up on my Touch tells me the data DID reach the device but isn't showing. DO you know of a way to get it to show??? Also, my feeling has been that Apple is NOT acknowledging this bug. Where did you get the info that they are acknowledging it? Thanks. > The amount of memory used up on my Touch tells me the data DID reach the > device but isn't showing. DO you know of a way to get it to show??? On the Nano, a hard reset sometimes causes some of the data to show up. You may have to repeat it a few times. I haven't seen any trick to get the Touch to sync with Outlook since 1.1.3. Sometimes, an empty Touch will show the Outlook data, but as soon as you load any media the Calendar and Contacts goes empty even though syncing of that data was unchecked. > Also, > my feeling has been that Apple is NOT acknowledging this bug. Where did you > get the info that they are acknowledging it? Thanks. Direct conversations with Apple engineers, as well as submissions and follow-throughs with Apple in their bug reporter. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. > In doing so, I have learned that many people are having trouble syncing > their iPhones (and Touches) to MS Outlook. I, for example, cannot get my [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I am just so surprised that this issue, which is not that new, has not come > up here before. To be fair to the iPhone, the Windows Mobile newsgroups are full of folks having trouble synching Outlook 2007 calendar, tasks and notes items to WinMo devices, and they're running an MS OS! > In the meantime, does anyone know of a solution, fix, or patch for the > problem? I'm not an iPhone user, as you know, ;-) but I can suggest a few "generic" sync troubleshooting ideas from the WinMo world. Typically sync problems ocur when the mobile device "chokes" on content in an Outlook item that the device doesn't know what to do with- Contacts with unsupported embedded objects in their "notes" field, recurring calendar items with no ending date, etc. or simply a (slightly) corrupted or damaged .pst file might be the culprit. First would be to run scanpst (the inbox repair tool) in the "\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office12" folder. If this solves your problem (unlikely) great. If not, we do a little more detective work... To figure out if you have a "poison" item blocking the sync, move (cut/paste) ALL of your calendar items into a newly created Outlook folder outside the "Personal Items" hierarchy (I make a subfolder in "Archive Folders" for example.) Selecting a list view (like "Oulok Data File" under "View" rather than a calendar view makes this MUCH easier. Now try synching with the empty calendar (this sync usually works!) ;-) Now copy a few items back into your normal default calendar folder a few at at a time, syncing after each few- evenually you should find the items that stubbornly refuse syncing. Simply retyping the item and deleting the original fixes the stubborn ones, unless you see a pattern (like no end date on recurring items, or unsupported files attached, etc.) you can correct. Good luck! >> In doing so, I have learned that many people are having trouble >> syncing their iPhones (and Touches) to MS Outlook. I, for example, [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Good luck! Hey thanks for some reasonably sound advice. I actually got started on part of your suggestion yesterday (I created another calendar in Archives) but I didn't have the rest of your suggestions to go along with the move. I'll give them a try, but I don't know that I can (or want) to devote another 7 or 8 hours to getting this thing to work. You're correct about certain items causing syncing problems. When I initially synced my BB, a few items were replicated on the device. But they were clever enough to have color-coded them for me so that I could find them easily, delete the red ones, and re-sync. And, generally speaking the BB's syncing program (Desktop Manager) warns you of potential problems (as does the Dell Axim's Activesync program) and gives you options about how to handle the discrepancies during the syncing process. Those are serious syncing devices with serious syncing software. I would say that if Apple wants to be in the synced-device business, it needs to develop better syncing software. > > Now copy a few items back into your normal default calendar folder a > > few at at a time, syncing after each few- evenually you should find [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Hey thanks for some reasonably sound advice. Don't mention it- it's practice. I've got to throw a couple of intelligent- sounding troubleshooting posts around the WinMogroups from ime to time to maintain my Mobile Device MVP "street cred." > I actually got started on part > of your suggestion yesterday (I created another calendar in Archives) but I > didn't have the rest of your suggestions to go along with the move. I'll > give them a try, but I don't know that I can (or want) to devote another 7 > or 8 hours to getting this thing to work. As you've said, you almost don't mind going through the BS if it actally works- it's when it doesn't it p*sses you off! Copying the calendar out of the way and bringing just a few items back to sync should only take a few minutes- if the iPhone doesn't respond, you can give up on my suggestion with little time lost. > You're correct about certain items causing syncing problems. When I > initially synced my BB, a few items were replicated on the device. But they [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > that if Apple wants to be in the synced-device business, it needs to develop > better syncing software. Or convince the other 94% of the market to buy Macs, at least based on Oxford's advice. ;-) >>> Now copy a few items back into your normal default calendar folder a >>> few at at a time, syncing after each few- evenually you should find [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Or convince the other 94% of the market to buy Macs, at least based on > Oxford's advice. ;-) Exactly. |
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