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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / August 2008

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Iphone 3G antenna test

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4phun - 25 Aug 2008 02:17 GMT
Iphone 3G antenna test

http://www.gp.se/gp/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=444&a=440573

photo
http://www.gp.se/content/1/c6/44/05/73/iphonetestwebb.jpg
caption
The test chamber looks dangerous, but the iphone survived. Antenna
engineer Magnus Franzén also tested a Nokia N73 and a Sony Ericsson P1
to compare the results.

BOTTOM LINE QUOTE ABOUT THE IPHONE

"But after some rotations in the test chamber, where the mobile is
rotating as in a microwave oven, I get the good news.

- The values are completely normal, says Magnus Franzén, an antenna
engineer with an M.Sc. in Engineering Physics. "

Well there you have it. The  - Swedes prove you know who is full of it!
Larry - 25 Aug 2008 03:37 GMT
4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:71942c12-a9f4-4244-8a7c-
2adc888749c1@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

> Well there you have it. The  - Swedes prove you know who is full of it!

"In my opinion my iphone has worked perfectly."

This is a DIRECT quote cut and pasted from the webpage.  This one statement
blows his credibility out of the water.  Can you imagine the glowing report
we'd all get if VIC were running the antenna test?  Same idea....(c;

You're a ham.  You know damned well the ONLY way to test a transmitter
antenna is in an open field out in the boondocks, not inside a microwave
oven!

This test chamber CANNOT test the radiation pattern of the transmitting
antenna on the bottom of the iphone because THAT would require an anachoic
RF chamber to prevent reflections.  It's made to test RECEIVERS.

It's problem is the antennas are on the BOTTOM, right next to your wrist
and jaw when you're talking on it.  The radiation pattern MUST be away from
the interior metal ground plane of the battery and main PC board.  The GPS
antenna must absorb a good bit of it and distort the pattern being within a
couple of cm from the phone antenna.

Its antenna, like all new sellphones SUCKS...ALL THREE OF THEM...just as
the carriers wanted them to do to prevent your phone jamming adjacent
microcells in heavy urban areas.

Yep, Iphone is perfect.  All these lawsuits and complaints are caused by a
bunch of malcontents and people having second thoughts about what they
actually bought...Mobile Me, App Store, locked up system nonsense.
4phun - 25 Aug 2008 04:09 GMT
> 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote in news:71942c12-a9f4-4244-8a7c-
> 2adc88874...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> bunch of malcontents and people having second thoughts about what they
> actually bought...Mobile Me, App Store, locked up system nonsense.

I guess Hussein Obama will have you as his choice to head the FCC so
their testing practices can match your fantasy Larry.

I cc your post to his followers so they can get right on it for you.

BTW they tested both transmit and receive and the opinion you qouted
out fo context was of magazine's author who owns an iPhone not the
skilled engineer who's whole life is looking for issues like you
describe in your fantasies. That engineer said there is nothing wrong
with the iPhone.

Now Larry why is AT&T holding off on the new RIM Bold after it has
been discovered it has the same 3G issues that the iPhone is alleged
to have in a few devices?
Larry - 25 Aug 2008 06:35 GMT
4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:f90f7a97-1471-4a05-aa7e-
e7947fb10ce7@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com:

> Now Larry why is AT&T holding off on the new RIM Bold after it has
> been discovered it has the same 3G issues that the iPhone is alleged
> to have in a few devices?

More unsubstantiated bullshit, Vic.  Post the URL backing up this claim.

RIMM had one of its best seasons, ever.....a hair under 1.3 BILLION dollars
NET income to the shareholders.  up from $631,000 the year before.

I don't know if you can see that through those Apple-controlled glasses but
that's DOUBLE the NET PROFIT in 12 months!

Poor RIMM, how can they carry all that to the bank?!
4phun - 25 Aug 2008 10:32 GMT
> 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote in news:f90f7a97-1471-4a05-aa7e-
> e7947fb10...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Poor RIMM, how can they carry all that to the bank?!

Larry this is getting old. Did you need an Elmer to hold your hand
while you qualified for a license?

Google shows over a hundred thousand results.

First one was from Barron's over a month ago.

" June 25, 2008, 10:48 am
RIMM Slides Ahead Of Earnings; Report Blackberry Bold AT&T Launch
Delayed 2-3 Weeks; RBC Trims FY Q2 Ests
Posted by Eric Savitz

Research In Motion (RIMM) shares are lower this morning heading into
the company’s announcement after the close of results for its fiscal
first quarter ended May. The Street consensus is for revenue of $2.27
billion and profits of 85 cents a share.

Meanwhile, RBC Capital’s Mike Abramsky asserts in a research note this
morning that AT&T (T) appears likely to launch the new 3G Blackberry
Bold in mid-August, two or three weeks later than expected, “as it
continues to stabilize the device” on its 3G HSPA network.""

Since then it became clear the problems are the exact same oens
mentioned by a few compaints against the iPhone.

It is the AT&T network Larry, in spite of all the FUD you spew on a
daily basis. Are you so dense you can not put it together?

IMHO
Verizon is going to love having you as a customer after they finish
off Alltell.
Larry - 25 Aug 2008 17:47 GMT
4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:183c38cf-b8bf-4dd8-8054-
8f761e533fb3@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

> It is the AT&T network Larry, in spite of all the FUD you spew on a
> daily basis. Are you so dense you can not put it together?

ATT sucks.  I know that.  Any PCS carrier does.  It's all PCS in the
Southeast.

But, alas, it sucks WORSE on a FruitFone.....until the recall fixes it.
anonymousNetUser - 25 Aug 2008 07:09 GMT
> 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:71942c12-a9f4-4244-8a7c-
> 2adc888749c1@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> antenna is in an open field out in the boondocks, not inside a microwave
> oven!

Boondocks? Can we use your backyard?

You've obviously never heard of an electromagnetically isolated chamber,
have you? Larry, your ignorance is showing!
Larry - 25 Aug 2008 18:28 GMT
anonymousNetUser <mickey@disney.com> wrote in news:G0ssk.7538$4s1.3234
@newsfe06.iad:

> You've obviously never heard of an electromagnetically isolated chamber,
> have you? Larry, your ignorance is showing!

I lived and worked in a screen room at the Metrology Laboratory of the
Quality Assurance Office of the Charleston Naval Shipyard (Code 132 for
those that collect code numbers) for nearly 15 years before it closed.

A screen room (electromagnetically isolated chamber) is NOT, I repeat
NOT anechoic, a chamber that has no RF reflections off its walls.  It
was never meant to be.  A screen room prevents external signals from
OUTSIDE the screen room from messing up the measurements INSIDE the
screen room, hence the name "isolated chamber".  This is NOT an
enclosure to test anything to do with antenna patterns, sensitivity of
receivers in certain directions, because any signal transmitted INSIDE
the screen room bounces off the metal walls (see the metal walls in the
picture of this dumbasses test chamber?  REFLECTORS) which prevents
measuring any signal generated INSIDE the screen room to detect deep
nulls, a poor antenna pattern in the wrong direction for good
reception/transmission.  To test these functions, you need to be in an
RF Anechoic chamber such as:

http://www.tdkrfsolutions.com/chambers.htm

Here's a good explanation of how they function:
http://glendash.com/Dash_of_EMC/Anechoic_Chambers/Anechoic_Chambers.pdf

http://www.directindustry.com/industrial-manufacturer/anechoic-chamber-
78369.html

http://www.aemi-inc.com/

Here, you see a properly setup RF anechoic chamber for broad frequency
range testing of emitters (transmitters, unwanted emitters like
computers, etc.)  
http://www.rfi-ind.com.au/download/Compact%20TC800-20.pdf

http://www.cuminglehman.com/

http://www.panashield.com/
another good picture of a test facility.

http://www.djmelectronics.com/anechoic-chambers.html

http://www.djmelectronics.com/articles/djm-mini-range.pdf
Here's a little one for certifying radiation from wireless devices like
routers.

http://www.telesplicing.com.tw/pdfk15/front/bin/ptdetail.phtml?Part=e002
&PreView=1

Now, compare THOSE to a simple SCREEN ROOM (isolation chamber) made to
shield out external RF noise from OUTSIDE the room from the test INSIDE
the room...without the massive RF absorbing ferrite walls to prevent the
screen room from reflecting back RF generated inside the room.

All tests done on the phones to determine their antenna effectiveness
and make pattern graphs in any plane to detect offending nulls, poor
patterns MUST be made in an anechoic RF enclosure with absorptive walls
I've presented here.

I had to certify military stuff from the late 60's to late 80's before I
came to my senses and started my own company.  God you digital jerks are
DENSE!

The measurements inside the NON-anechoic chamber are USELESS!  They
might as well have been made in a microwave oven!
Dennis Ferguson - 25 Aug 2008 19:14 GMT
> 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:71942c12-a9f4-4244-8a7c-
> 2adc888749c1@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Well there you have it. The  - Swedes prove you know who is full of it!
[...]
> You're a ham.  You know damned well the ONLY way to test a transmitter
> antenna is in an open field out in the boondocks, not inside a microwave
> oven!

That's certainly true at HF, where the RF wavelengths are 10's of meters.
For cell phones, where the longest wavelength is in the ball park of
30 cm, you can get by with a lot less space.

> This test chamber CANNOT test the radiation pattern of the transmitting
> antenna on the bottom of the iphone because THAT would require an anachoic
> RF chamber to prevent reflections.  It's made to test RECEIVERS.

You know, reciprocity applies.  If the arrangement was unsuitable for
testing the transmitter it would be equally unsuitable for testing the
receiver.

We test equipment for Part 15 compliance in a chamber which looks a
whole lot like that one (only bigger, since the equipment is bigger).
I have no idea how the chamber works, but I know it is both expensive
and industry standard.

> It's problem is the antennas are on the BOTTOM, right next to your wrist
> and jaw when you're talking on it.  The radiation pattern MUST be away from

All Motorola phones that are relatives or descendents of the RAZR seem
to have their antennas in the same place, at the bottom of the phone.
They seem to work okay.  If you aren't going to have the antenna
sticking up out of the top of the phone (and no phones do any more,
that is out of style) then it might be better to put the antenna there
than in the part of the phone you shove up against your head.

There are no good internal cell phone antennas (particularly at the
lowest frequencies), they are all negative gain.  Networks are supposed
to be engineered to work with the handsets people have, however, so
as long as the iPhone is no worse than other phones it should work as
well.

If the RF makes it into or out of the iPhone as well as any other
phone, as this test suggests it does, then any problems special to
the iPhone should be in the transceiver itself.  Since "transceivers"
these days are actually software running on a DSP core I find it
plausible that they may be able to fix any remaining iPhone problems
with a software update.

Dennis Ferguson
anonymousNetUser - 25 Aug 2008 07:06 GMT
> Iphone 3G antenna test
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Well there you have it. The  - Swedes prove you know who is full of it!

We didn't need the Swedes to prove anything. We all know who's full of
sh.t on this newsgroup!
 
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