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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / August 2008

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BlackBerry Blunders: New BlackBerry suffering 3G connection drops

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4phun - 26 Aug 2008 15:25 GMT
New BlackBerry suffering same 3G connection drops as iPhone

Wasn't the new BB supposed to be out a couple of weeks ago on AT&T?

Cellular access woes initially pinned on the iPhone 3G's particular
hardware now appear likely to be thwarting the BlackBerry Bold's debut
with AT&T, according to a new report .

Now everyone can wait for you know who to give us his learned view
that Rimm made the mistake of including a tiny $ellular antenna. He
may even assert that Rimm really should have used a long wire.

http://digg.com/hardware/New_BlackBerry_suffering_same_3G_connection_drops_as_iPhone

BTW I saw a report on Mobility Today (before Rimm forced them to pull
the video review as flawed and unfair) that the new BlackBerry sucks
big time compared to the iPhone! MT is supposed to be getting a new
BlackBerry for review as soon as Rimm can figure out why their new BB
was so bad.
Todd Allcock - 26 Aug 2008 17:44 GMT
> New BlackBerry suffering same 3G connection drops as iPhone

It's possible, and there are certainly many, many, articles and blog entries
about this, but if you actually READ any of them, they all reference the
same source: a Barron's report of "Citigroup analyst Jim Suva" who tested
the phone and had 3G connectivity problems in New York- sadly, not exactly
not AT&T's proudest effort (as our own recent iPhone buyer David Imber will
attest to!)

Contrast this to the many folks experiencing iPhone 3G connectivity problems
in many places (although T-Mobile Netherlands, the only carrier who publicly
blamed Apple for the issue, says the recent iPhone update fixed the problem
for their customers.)  Methinks anyone who hits any dead spot with any 3G
phone will be hailed as "proof" by the fanbois that the iPhone was blameless
and it was all the various carriers' faults all along.

> Wasn't the new BB supposed to be out a couple of weeks ago on AT&T?

I believe so.  Perhaps AT&T wants to make sure their new uber phone actually
works before releasing it...

> Cellular access woes initially pinned on the iPhone 3G's particular
> hardware now appear likely to be thwarting the BlackBerry Bold's debut
> with AT&T, according to a new report .

Yes.  A singular "new report."  The "Appleinsider" blog post you just quoted
references, yes, you guessed it!  "Citigroup investment research analyst Jim
Suva's early testing of the Bold, which uses the same 3G network standard as
current iPhones, finds the device with just as unstable a connection as that
reported in the US and elsewhere for Apple's handset, with data sometimes
dropping to the slower EDGE network or even cutting out entirely."

Interestingly there's a LOT of editorializing in there (surprise!), since
Suva said NOTHING about it being "just as unstable"- in fact he said the
opposite: "We had a few occasional 3G signal dropping troubles at some
locations especially on high-rises building streets & on our 34th floor
(EDGE picked up immediately but slower internet speeds)..."

"EDGE picked up immediately" isn't "just as unstable" as "sometimes...
cutting out entirely."

> Now everyone can wait for you know who to give us his learned view
> that Rimm made the mistake of including a tiny $ellular antenna. He
> may even assert that Rimm really should have used a long wire.
>
> http://digg.com/hardware/New_BlackBerry_suffering_same_3G_connection_drops_as_iPhone

Larry's insane rants can't be much worse than many of the blog posts you
liberally reprint here- many have the same source- the rear ends of their
respective authors.

> BTW I saw a report on Mobility Today (before Rimm forced them to pull
> the video review as flawed and unfair)

You mean the one that compared the iPhone on WiFi to a RIM on 3G?  Yeah,
THAT wasn't stacking the deck, was it?

> that the new BlackBerry sucks
> big time compared to the iPhone! MT is supposed to be getting a new
> BlackBerry for review as soon as Rimm can figure out why their new BB
> was so bad.

Different phones for different markets.  I don't think anyone is expecting
the Bold to have as good a web-browsing or media playback experience as an
iPhone- it just needs to be acceptable enough for people to get by with one
phone for both business and personal use.  And at $100 MORE than an iPhone,
I doubt RIM or AT&T expect the soccer moms and teens to line up for it like
they are for iPhones.

Business users can happily live with a great business phone with half-assed
entertainment features like the Bold (or Curve, or Pearl), but they CAN'T
live with a great entertainment phone with half-assed business features like
an iPhone...  In a nutshell that's the difference.  You can use your ugly
business pickup truck to take a Sunday drive if need be, but you can't use
your sports car to haul bricks.
4phun - 26 Aug 2008 20:30 GMT
On Aug 26, 12:44 pm, "Todd Allcock" <eleccon...@AmericaOnLine.com>
wrote:
> "4phun" <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> > that the new BlackBerry sucks
> > big time compared to the iPhone! MT is supposed to be getting a new
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I doubt RIM or AT&T expect the soccer moms and teens to line up for it like
> they are for iPhones.

When you have a decent browser that is a pleasure to use on a small
screen tehn web based apps and cloud computing becomes viable. Those
otehr products I had before had to run some kind of eiditing software
because they could not leverage the Internet connection on a small
screen.

They still can't according to MT.

As for internet connectivity my 3G iPhone is working better than
before. I just drove around on errands and listened to Pandora on 3G
without missing a beat or dropping the 3G connection which wasn't
possible a few weeks ago. Someone has fixed something here in Atlanta.
Now 12 noon  to 3 isn't the most heavy loading of 3G so more testing
is needed to be certain Apple or AT&T has fixed the issue some had.
But either in the car or in various building the music kept on playing
without a lost server message even in some notorious cell dead spots.
Todd Allcock - 26 Aug 2008 21:08 GMT
> > Different phones for different markets. I don't think anyone is
> > expecting
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> When you have a decent browser that is a pleasure to use on a small
> screen tehn web based apps and cloud computing becomes viable.

"Pleasure to use" is still only a comparitive term, however.  Even the
excellent browsing experience on the iPhone proves that browsing for
anything but basic information is a chore on 4" screen regardless of how
good the rendering engine is.

> Those
> otehr products I had before had to run some kind of eiditing software
> because they could not leverage the Internet connection on a small
> screen.

"Editing software" like Office Mobile or Docs to Go you mean?  No offense,
but I'll take local storage over "cloud computing" any day, since the former
doesn't rely on connectivity.  It's hard to read a Google Docs document on
an airplane, despite the irony of actually being "in the clouds" yourself!
;-)

> They still can't according to MT.

I think in retrospect, that's why we'll see more web-apps and server-based
solutions like Windows Live Search, Google Maps, or even the iPhone webapps
that scrape internet content and display it in a mobile-friendly way.

Take that Trulia real estate thing you posted about earlier- given the
option of trying to parse MLS listings on a phone browser from a typical
ad-laden realtor's website, or using a polished app that displays the
listings intentionally for a small screen and sends addresses to your GPS
software, etc., Trulia all but guarantees you'll use their services over
anyone else's.  Similarly, (I realize I wax poetic about WLS often, but I'll
do it again!) Windows Live Search is an app that completely eliminates the
need to use a web browser for a variety of tasks- movie listings, phone
lookups (business, residential, and reverse lookups), traffic, weather, real
estate listings (not as nice as Trulia's), local community events listings,
and more are all accessable from inside one app, and all the information
links to the GPS/Maps application and Contacts.  I don't need to browse
411.com, Hollywood.com, Accuweather, etc. like I used to for common "mobile
information" tasks- the UI resides on the phone, and only the actual data
needs to flow back and forth, not the "pretty package" (webpage) it's
generally wrapped in.

> As for internet connectivity my 3G iPhone is working better than
> before. I just drove around on errands and listened to Pandora on 3G
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> But either in the car or in various building the music kept on playing
> without a lost server message even in some notorious cell dead spots.

You HAD to use the "P" word didn't you!  ;-)  You know Pandora is the only
app you've got that I'm jealous of!
Larry - 26 Aug 2008 23:31 GMT
4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:38c37649-8943-45d2-b983-
767cba54c8d1@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

> As for internet connectivity my 3G iPhone is working better than
> before. I just drove around on errands and listened to Pandora on 3G
> without missing a beat or dropping the 3G connection which wasn't
> possible a few weeks ago. Someone has fixed something here in Atlanta.

Meet me in Cottagefille,  SC,  and we'll see ow it compares to Alltel
EVDO.
Carl - 31 Aug 2008 11:14 GMT
>> New BlackBerry suffering same 3G connection drops as iPhone
>
> You can use your ugly business pickup truck to take a
> Sunday drive if need be, but you can't use your sports car to haul
> bricks.

Oh, so that's been my problem. Damn car bottoms out every time.
Larry - 26 Aug 2008 18:04 GMT
> http://digg.com/hardware/New_BlackBerry_suffering_same_3G_connection_dr
> ops_as_iPhone

Nice attempt to deflect the problem, Vic.  Here's the REAL webpage where
this was reported by an APPLE fanboi:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/08/26/new_blackberry_suffering_same
_3g_connection_drops_as_iphone.html

Don't you find it odd only APPLE fanbois, like yourself, are reporting
this, instead of the Wall Street Journal or the computer press or the
cellphone trade papers like they are with iPhone?

You can't be that stupid....This crap came from APPLE INSIDER, for very
good reason....DEFLECTION.

I'm surprised you even posted it.
Carl - 27 Aug 2008 02:45 GMT
> New BlackBerry suffering same 3G connection drops as iPhone
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> BlackBerry for review as soon as Rimm can figure out why their new BB
> was so bad.

Not every new phone that's introduced is a response to the iPhone. Certainly
the Bold doesn't function like an iPhone. It's fairly egocentric thinking to
say the least to think every phone is a challenge to the iPhone.  I'd say,
if you need to have a BB response to the iPhone, you should at least await
the rumored Thunder. Then you can wax critical if you're able to.  The
iPhone is a wonderful device (I got myself a Touch to do some comparison
shopping with my Curve), but it's far, far from being business applicable.
It's a great toy though, I'll admit that.
David G. Imber - 27 Aug 2008 22:17 GMT
>Not every new phone that's introduced is a response to the iPhone.

    Quite true. But while RIM isn't marketing the thing explicitly
as an "iPhone Killer", that's the headline on 99 out of 100 articles
I've seen on it, and anything remotely like it.

    I have to say that as someone with an eye for advertising and
marketing, I've been somewhat shocked by the undercurrent of
manufacturer's desire to deliver the "next iPhone". Seems to me they
should be trying to surpass it somehow by finding the consumer
advantage they can bring to market that iPhone doesn't. Instead,
everyone seems (I know I'm taking a superficial view) to be trying to
belly up to the iPhone bar, and falling short.

    DGI
Carl - 28 Aug 2008 05:07 GMT
>> Not every new phone that's introduced is a response to the iPhone.
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> DGI

The LG Voyager was the first "iPhone killer", now it's the BB Bold. You
can't blame BB for the manner in which writers attempt to generate interest
in their reviews.

And I agree with you about manufacturers trying to develop a phone that has
its own strengths rather than constantly trying to make their own iPhone.
Todd Allcock - 28 Aug 2008 05:17 GMT
At 27 Aug 2008 17:17:04 -0400 David G.Imber wrote:

> >Not every new phone that's introduced is a response to the iPhone.
>
>     Quite true. But while RIM isn't marketing the thing explicitly
> as an "iPhone Killer", that's the headline on 99 out of 100 articles
> I've seen on it, and anything remotely like it.

Yes, but is that RIMs fault?  If Car and Driver publishes a story telling
us what a crappy SUV substitute the 2-seater SmartCar is, should we blame
Smart?

Journalists know that right now, you can't write an article about
cellphones without mentioning the iPhone.  

>     I have to say that as someone with an eye for advertising and
> marketing, I've been somewhat shocked by the undercurrent of
> manufacturer's desire to deliver the "next iPhone". Seems to me they
> should be trying to surpass it somehow by finding the consumer
> advantage they can bring to market that iPhone doesn't.

That's sort of what they're trying to do, just very, VERY, badly.  Verizon
claims their LG enV iPhoney is "better" because it has not just a
touchscreen, but also a keyboard and "The Network."  The advertising
message of Sprint's Samsung Instinct (as far as I can tell)  is "just as
good, and it's cheaper!"  HTC hides the awkward stylus-based WinMo UI under
an equally awkward finger-based UI and calls it the "Diamond."  (I'll leave
the obvious "world's hardest-to-use smartphones named after the world's
hardest substance" jokes to our resident fanbois...)  

> Instead,
> everyone seems (I know I'm taking a superficial view) to be trying to
> belly up to the iPhone bar, and falling short.

I completely agree, and that's what makes the Bold refreshing- no "iPhoney"
here- RIM just took everything already good about the Blackberry (hard
keyboard, email, PIM, security, an improved what was lacking the most-
(browser, media player, etc.) and made _a better Blackberry_, rather than a
inferior copy of the iPhone.  (I'm REALLY hoping RIM doesn't forget this
when they make the upcoming  touchscreen-based BB "Thunder.")  

I think if phone manufacturers spent more time writing good software, than
writing bad advertising copy, they wouldn't need to "kill" anything.
Carl - 28 Aug 2008 14:11 GMT
> At 27 Aug 2008 17:17:04 -0400 David G.Imber wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> than writing bad advertising copy, they wouldn't need to "kill"
> anything.

Hey! I think we both said about the same thing? But I beat you by 10
minutes! Ha!
You gave it more depth however. Kudos for that.
Todd Allcock - 28 Aug 2008 17:25 GMT
> Hey! I think we both said about the same thing? But I beat you by 10
> minutes! Ha!

Gimme a break!  How fast do you think I can peck on a WinMo phone?  ;-)
Carl - 31 Aug 2008 11:20 GMT
>> Hey! I think we both said about the same thing? But I beat you by 10
>> minutes! Ha!
>
> Gimme a break!  How fast do you think I can peck on a WinMo phone? ;-)
Oh yeah? Have you tired typing ANYTHING on iPhone's virtual keyboard? My
fingers aren't even fat and I manage to hit the wrong key at least 30% of
the time.

By the way, on an unrealted topic, the battery life on my Touch really
sucks. I don't know if you can relate that directly to the iPhone's battery
life, but I couldn't even imagine getting through a day with this if I had
to amke phone calls on it too.. By the way, it's an experimental device for
me, so I rarely take it with me anywhere and use it little. It just runs
down.  I'm surprised we haven't seen more complaints about that.
 
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