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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / October 2008

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iPhone software update 2.1 this weekend (iTunes 8 today)

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iPhone News - 09 Sep 2008 19:11 GMT
Software 2.1 is due this weekend (September 14/15) for iPod Touch and
iPhone with a raft of bug fixes for such things as dropped calls, short
battery life, slow backups, app crashes, etc.

iTunes 8.0 should be ready to go for this afternoon sometime. Just check
for updates when you open up the application.
Larry - 09 Sep 2008 22:21 GMT
iPhone News <invalid@nospam.net> wrote in news:invalid-
1ABA69.14112709092008@news.giganews.com:

> Software 2.1 is due this weekend (September 14/15) for iPod Touch and
> iPhone with a raft of bug fixes for such things as dropped calls, short
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> iTunes 8.0 should be ready to go for this afternoon sometime. Just check
> for updates when you open up the application.

Hell, if we're gonna dream.....Let's DREAM!
Arrow - 10 Sep 2008 01:31 GMT
> iPhone News <invalid@nospam.net> wrote in news:invalid-
> 1ABA69.14112709092008@news.giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Hell, if we're gonna dream.....Let's DREAM!

Larr is dreaming for a n800 newsgroup :)
Larry - 10 Sep 2008 02:08 GMT
> Larr is dreaming for a n800 newsgroup :)

Oh, we got that...

http://www.internettablettalk.com/

There's even a school!

http://www.tabletscene.com/

Come on over to the dark side of the force....(c;
Todd Allcock - 10 Sep 2008 05:33 GMT
> > Hell, if we're gonna dream.....Let's DREAM!
>
> Larr is dreaming for a n800 newsgroup :)

No, he's a technology evangelist- in an N800 group he'd be preaching to the
converted...
Anybody - 10 Sep 2008 07:14 GMT
> > iPhone News <invalid@nospam.net> wrote in news:invalid-
> > 1ABA69.14112709092008@news.giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Larr is dreaming for a n800 newsgroup :)

Please do not encourage the moron. Just ignore it and hopefully it will
go away.
Mike - 10 Sep 2008 18:09 GMT
>>> iPhone News <invalid@nospam.net> wrote in news:invalid-
>>> 1ABA69.14112709092008@news.giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Please do not encourage the moron. Just ignore it and hopefully it will
> go away.

That didn't work when I caught athletes foot and I don't hold out much
hope of it working with Larry.  I'd recommend canesten powder.

Mike
Anybody - 10 Sep 2008 22:19 GMT
> >>> iPhone News <invalid@nospam.net> wrote in news:invalid-
> >>> 1ABA69.14112709092008@news.giganews.com:
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Mike

I'd recommend a gun, buring at the stake, drowning or rat poison in
it's sandwiches ... but simply ignoring the moron is easier and legal.
Larry - 10 Sep 2008 18:38 GMT
>> >> Software 2.1 is due this weekend (September 14/15) for iPod Touch
>> >> and iPhone with a raft of bug fixes for such things as dropped
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Please do not encourage the moron. Just ignore it and hopefully it
> will go away.

Let's hold the childish name calling for a second and let me ask you for an
honest answer.....

Don't you guys ever feel rather cheated while browsing things you cannot
see or trying to play some common file it just won't play after spending
all this money?

Don't you get angry you cannot copy the text out of an email and paste it
into another email to someone else or a URL?

I'd be really pissed, myself.  It angers me we have no JAVA runtime on the
N800 Linux tablets.  NOAA uses JAVA a lot and I can't browse there.  The
rest is pretty much covered.  I can't imagine being without Flash and
javascript in any browser, today.
Jochem Huhmann - 10 Sep 2008 19:18 GMT
> Let's hold the childish name calling for a second and let me ask you for an
> honest answer.....

Good idea...

> Don't you guys ever feel rather cheated while browsing things you cannot
> see or trying to play some common file it just won't play after spending
> all this money?

Well, not being able to see Flash ads or such isn't that bad, really.
And if Flash would work only bad (since you haven't got enough CPU-power
or browsing would eat to much battery then or the screen resolution is
not enough on the small screen) it would be worse than not having Flash
at all.

> Don't you get angry you cannot copy the text out of an email and paste it
> into another email to someone else or a URL?

Yes, this sucks, no question. But this surely isn't something that
defines if you're happy with the thing or not. You don't use it for all
your browsing or mailing or writing. It covers a certain base amount of
all that and *this* it does in a straight, simple and convenient way.

> I'd be really pissed, myself.  It angers me we have no JAVA runtime on the
> N800 Linux tablets.  NOAA uses JAVA a lot and I can't browse there.  The
> rest is pretty much covered.  I can't imagine being without Flash and
> javascript in any browser, today.

Hey, that thing is a *phone* (or an iPod in the case of the Touch). It's
not the one and only computer that has to do everything. Of course it
would be nice to have smooth Flash and full Javascript support, but
within the memory and CPU-power and energy constraints of such a small
device I don't see that coming too soon.

As you say, even the N800 has no Java and this tablet is a quite
unwieldy thing to have in your pocket or to use one-handed while
standing in the subway. That a quite small phone or iPod which can be
held and used with one hand can't do everything a larger tablet or
notebook can do shouldn't be surprising, I think. Of course you could
make it to do more than it does and some of that in a slow, complicated,
incomplete or hard-to-use way, but obviously there are enough people who
like to have a gadget that does the things it does in a nice and
well-rounded way and is easy to use. Apple seems to service that market
quite well. If you don't like it, buy another device.

       Jochem

Signature

"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Larry - 11 Sep 2008 02:51 GMT
> Well, not being able to see Flash ads or such isn't that bad, really.
> And if Flash would work only bad (since you haven't got enough CPU-power
> or browsing would eat to much battery then or the screen resolution is
> not enough on the small screen) it would be worse than not having Flash
> at all.

Flash doesn't seem to eat the N800 battery any worse than anything else it
does.  The big battery hog is the display.  If I turn down the brightness
of the display, it extends the battery out several hours.  The ARM
processor in the N800 is very close to the one in iPhone.  With OS2008 the
processor runs at 400 Mhz, which is no supercomputer.  Iphone would do
Flash 9 just as well as mine, I'm sure.
John B. Coarsey, PE - 10 Sep 2008 20:19 GMT
>>> >> Software 2.1 is due this weekend (September 14/15) for iPod Touch
>>> >> and iPhone with a raft of bug fixes for such things as dropped
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> rest is pretty much covered.  I can't imagine being without Flash and
> javascript in any browser, today.

My daugher-in-law insists on sending me multimedia pictures to an iphone I
have. Of course you get a message to go to viewmypicures.com (ATT site)and
have to type in a horrible alphanumeric message id and password which is
embedded in  the message. So I have to go get a pen and paper and write them
down then re-enter them to see the picture or use another computer and get
the id off the iphone. If it was anything but pictures of my grandaughter I
would delete the darn thing and not bother.
Larry - 11 Sep 2008 02:54 GMT
> My daugher-in-law insists on sending me multimedia pictures to an
> iphone I have. Of course you get a message to go to viewmypicures.com
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> but pictures of my grandaughter I would delete the darn thing and not
> bother.

You should be able to doubleclick on that embedded URL and the iPhone
should know how to boot its browser and take you directly to them.  This
isn't 1989.  A premium device like this should easily handle any of these
embedded apps automatically, password and all.
John B. Coarsey, PE - 11 Sep 2008 12:44 GMT
>> My daugher-in-law insists on sending me multimedia pictures to an
>> iphone I have. Of course you get a message to go to viewmypicures.com
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> isn't 1989.  A premium device like this should easily handle any of these
> embedded apps automatically, password and all.

Amen brother, that would be so nice
techwiz - 11 Sep 2008 13:17 GMT
On Sep 11, 7:44 am, "John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> >> My daugher-in-law insists on sending me multimedia pictures to an
> >> iphone I have. Of course you get a message to go to viewmypicures.com
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Why can't she send them via email like everyone else does to an
iPhone?

You can always open another FREE GMAIL account to get them on your
iPhone. Then you will have another 7GB of storage online to archive
those picture messages in. You can then pull them up on any computer
in the world over the next several years by going to your Google
accoount. I know a man with 15 of them now, so that is what 105GB
online with Google?

When you get a email with one or more picture messages, download them
all to your phone then hold your finger on just one picture until a
pop up appears asking if you want to save all of then to your photo
library. Do it. Then you can play them just like any other photo album
using the automatic iPhone slide show or zoom them, flip them, and so
forth.
Don't forget to add music if you are showing them to others.

I am glad i finally got an iPhone too.
John B. Coarsey, PE - 11 Sep 2008 15:58 GMT
On Sep 11, 7:44 am, "John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> "Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Why can't she send them via email like everyone else does to an
iPhone?

You can always open another FREE GMAIL account to get them on your
iPhone. Then you will have another 7GB of storage online to archive
those picture messages in. You can then pull them up on any computer
in the world over the next several years by going to your Google
accoount. I know a man with 15 of them now, so that is what 105GB
online with Google?

When you get a email with one or more picture messages, download them
all to your phone then hold your finger on just one picture until a
pop up appears asking if you want to save all of then to your photo
library. Do it. Then you can play them just like any other photo album
using the automatic iPhone slide show or zoom them, flip them, and so
forth.
Don't forget to add music if you are showing them to others.

I am glad i finally got an iPhone too.

She sends pictures vie email too, and I have those loaded into camera roll.
It is just the spontaneous things she sends out. thansk for the info.
Todd Allcock - 11 Sep 2008 17:59 GMT
or zoom them, flip them, and so

> I am glad i finally got an iPhone too.
>
> She sends pictures vie email too, and I have those loaded into camera
> roll. It is just the spontaneous things she sends out. thansk for the
> info.

For the life of me, I don't know why AT&T doesn't just setup an automatic
forwarding service for iPhone customers that redirects incoming MMS to any
email address the iPhone owner specifies.  This would solve the problem of
the lack of MMS on the iPhone instantly!  MMS is pretty redundant on a
smartphone.  You can always send her an "MMS" by attaching a picture to an
email and emailing it to phonenumber@mms.att.net.  IMO, that's the only
outgoing "MMS" support the iPhone needs.

For receiving her MMS messages, you might ask her if she can MMS them to
whatever email account you use on your iPhone.  Even if her phone can't MMS
to email directly via it's menus (though many can) cell companies generally
have a message-to-email gateway number you can send messages to.  AT&T uses
"36245" (it spells "email" on the keypad) for that service.  You send your
text or picture message to "36245" and start the message with
joeblow@whatever.com then a space, then the rest of the message, and AT&T
sends it as an email to the recipient you typed.  That's a little extra work
on her end, maybe, but much less for you!
techwiz - 11 Sep 2008 18:46 GMT
> or zoom them, flip them, and so
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> sends it as an email to the recipient you typed.  That's a little extra work
> on her end, maybe, but much less for you!

I didn't know that!

You need to write an insruction guide for AT&T reps on how to better
inform customers.
Kevin Weaver - 11 Sep 2008 18:58 GMT
On Sep 11, 12:59 pm, "Todd Allcock" <eleccon...@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
> "John B. Coarsey, PE @yahoo.com>" <jcoarsey<nospam> wrote in
> messagenews:gabbn501jue@news6.newsguy.com...
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> work
> on her end, maybe, but much less for you!

I didn't know that!

You need to write an insruction guide for AT&T reps on how to better
inform customers.

Why it was not already in there is apple's fault. Plain and simple.

Now I'll wait to hear that this is AT&T doing and not apple which I'll say
Total BS In advance.
Todd Allcock - 11 Sep 2008 19:38 GMT
>> For receiving her MMS messages, you might ask her if she can MMS them to
>> whatever email account you use on your iPhone. Even if her phone can't
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> You need to write an insruction guide for AT&T reps on how to better
> inform customers.

After spending a decade as a Cingular customer, there are plenty of other
things I'd like to do to their reps if I ever got them alone in a room than
try and educate them, trust me!  ;-)

> Why it was not already in there is apple's fault. Plain and simple.

Lack of MMS support certainly is Apple's fault, no argument from me, but
AT&T certainly could take an initiative and make the end-user experience
better for THEIR customers.  Especially considering all the (wasted) time
and effort upgrading their EDGE network last year to support their
"Flagship" non-3G phone, and setting up the backend system for Visual
Voicemail (gee- right there is a "hidden" push email account available on
every iPhone that AT&T could redirect MMSes to, after converting them to
email!)

> Now I'll wait to hear that this is AT&T doing and not apple which I'll say
> Total BS In advance.

Agreed.  Larry will call it a $ellphone con$piracy to make customers pay
more for data plans, and Oxford and 4Phun will attempt to convince us that
MMS is an ancient technology not worthy of consideration on such a "modern"
device.

Myself, I'm a pragmatist.  AT&T is in the MMS business, and they sell an
undisputedly popular device without any MMS support.  Until they convince
Apple to add it, they could come up with such a simple workaround, which at
the $0.20 (or whatever) a pop they charge for sending and receiving
messages, should be all the incentive they need to put an autoforwarder in
place (properly disclaimered that iPhone customers will be charged the going
MMS rate for forwarded MMSes, unless they have the appropriate messaging
plan, etc.)
Oxford - 13 Sep 2008 01:44 GMT
> Lack of MMS support certainly is Apple's fault, no argument from me, but
> AT&T certainly could take an initiative and make the end-user experience
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> every iPhone that AT&T could redirect MMSes to, after converting them to
> email!)

well, it certainly isn't related to anyone's fault. it's mainly because
apple hasn't yet released their iChat software for the iphone. you need
to understand they are more about focus, than adding a bunch of obsolete
things that they would have to remove in the coming years. learn about
good software development Todd.

> > Now I'll wait to hear that this is AT&T doing and not apple which I'll say
> > Total BS In advance.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> MMS is an ancient technology not worthy of consideration on such a "modern"
> device.

MMS is ancient technology :) we all know that. If you want to go old
school, how about simply add MMS to your iphone? nobody is stopping you.

MobileChat is what you are looking for.

http://mobilech.at/
Todd Allcock - 13 Sep 2008 02:09 GMT
>> Lack of MMS support certainly is Apple's fault, no argument from me, but
>> AT&T certainly could take an initiative and make the end-user experience
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> well, it certainly isn't related to anyone's fault. it's mainly because
> apple hasn't yet released their iChat software for the iphone.

What on God's green Earth does iChat have to do with MMS?

> you need
> to understand they are more about focus, than adding a bunch of obsolete
> things that they would have to remove in the coming years. learn about
> good software development Todd.

Good software development allows for "backwards compatibility" when it
doesn't hurt the system.  MMS is a simple application, like email, that
wouldn't "harm" the iPhone's performance in any way, but allow messaging
compatibility with "dumbphone" owners.  It's a standard feature of cellular
phones in this day and age.  The iPhone is supposedly first and foremost a
phone (although given it's feature set, I'd argue it's first and foremost an
iPod.)  Currently the ONLY phone in AT&T's lineup not to offer MMS
capability.

>> > Now I'll wait to hear that this is AT&T doing and not apple which I'll
>> > say
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> http://mobilech.at/

No, MobileChat is an IM program.  Do you know what MMS is?  No wonder why
you don't even miss it...  Your last "phone" was a MacBook running iChat
over hijacked WiFi...
Oxford - 13 Sep 2008 02:32 GMT
> > well, it certainly isn't related to anyone's fault. it's mainly because
> > apple hasn't yet released their iChat software for the iphone.
>
> What on God's green Earth does iChat have to do with MMS?

ah, it's the OSX app that allows all sorts of messaging, file sharing,
etc. It's how people will get MMS functionality in time.

Learn Todd, Learn...

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/ichat.html

> > you need
> > to understand they are more about focus, than adding a bunch of obsolete
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Good software development allows for "backwards compatibility" when it
> doesn't hurt the system.  

It also takes into account forward compatibility. Why would Apple add a
separate MMS apps when it's going to be replaced by iChat? It wouldn't
make sense.

> MMS is a simple application, like email, that
> wouldn't "harm" the iPhone's performance in any way, but allow messaging
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> iPod.)  Currently the ONLY phone in AT&T's lineup not to offer MMS
> capability.

It has MMS capability if you want it. But yes currently we are waiting
for iChat to come to the iphone for this capability. Could be a year,
could be 3, it doesn't matter since you can always add this feature to
your iphone via the Apps Store.

> > MMS is ancient technology :) we all know that. If you want to go old
> > school, how about simply add MMS to your iphone? nobody is stopping you.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> you don't even miss it...  Your last "phone" was a MacBook running iChat
> over hijacked WiFi...

No, go to the iTunes Store... search for MMS... then read about
MobileChat... it's just a more modern implementation of MMS. traditional
MMS is dead, sorry!

Learn Todd, Learn...
Todd Allcock - 13 Sep 2008 04:59 GMT
> > What on God's green Earth does iChat have to do with MMS?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/ichat.html

Learn what?  That if you stick a small "i" in the name of a garden variety
IM program it's supposed to seem impressive?

Why am I not surprised that, as usual, you miss the point.  MMS is NOT
important for iPhone-to-iPhone "chatting."  It's important as a lowest-
common-denominator file transfer method between dumbphones.  Not every
iPhone owner communicates exclusively with other iPhone owners.

> > Good software development allows for "backwards compatibility" when it
> > doesn't hurt the system.  
>
> It also takes into account forward compatibility. Why would Apple add a
> separate MMS apps when it's going to be replaced by iChat? It wouldn't
> make sense.

Why?  The iPhone supports text messaging, despite the fact that it's
arguably redundant with a full email client on the phone.

Secondly, read this slowly: iChat is an IM program, not an MMS client.

> > MMS is a simple application, like email, that
> > wouldn't "harm" the iPhone's performance in any way, but allow messaging
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> could be 3, it doesn't matter since you can always add this feature to
> your iphone via the Apps Store.

No, it doesn't- that half-baked app you linked is not an MMS app and can't
even do IM without having to email you that you have an instant message
waiting due to the background-running prohibition.

> > > http://mobilech.at/
> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Learn Todd, Learn...

It's an IM program.  And a mediocre one at that (Apple's "no-multitasking"
fault, not the developer's)

MMS, a service used by one BILLION cellular phones worldwide, is a de facto
standard, despite a stubborn six million fruit-logoed holdouts.
Larry - 13 Sep 2008 17:48 GMT
> MMS, a service used by one BILLION cellular phones worldwide, is a de
> facto standard, despite a stubborn six million fruit-logoed holdouts.

There's several MMS apps for the Maemo tablets, and they aren't even
sellphones!
Kevin Weaver - 13 Sep 2008 06:40 GMT
>> > well, it certainly isn't related to anyone's fault. it's mainly because
>> > apple hasn't yet released their iChat software for the iphone.
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> Learn Todd, Learn...

If your going to try to push an app, maybe you should read the reviews.
Many reviews say it sucks. Other's say it's dependent on the company's
server which is down quite often. Etc, Etc.

It's not, repeat, not a replacement for MMS.

Learn Oxturd, Learn.
Larry - 11 Sep 2008 19:11 GMT
>> You should be able to doubleclick on that embedded URL and the iPhone
>> should know how to boot its browser and take you directly to them.
>> This isn't 1989.  A premium device like this should easily handle any
>> of these embedded apps automatically, password and all.
>
> Amen brother, that would be so nice

That's what Firefox does on the N800.  Works great, multitasking.

If it determines a media plugin from some TV station or other would look
better in a stand alone, it boots the Media Player and hands it the stream
URL to play, instead of playing in a little window too small to see.

N800's ARM processor is just like your iPhone, so the capability is there,
maybe if we drop some glitz sucking up the CPU.
David Moyer - 10 Sep 2008 22:16 GMT
> Let's hold the childish name calling for a second and let me ask you for an
> honest answer.....
>
> Don't you guys ever feel rather cheated while browsing things you cannot
> see or trying to play some common file it just won't play after spending
> all this money?

there is a difference between a common file and a "standard" file. you
are wanting to play non-standard files which with Apple is not the
correct direction for the best customer satisfaction.

learn the difference. apple is all about OPEN standards, not closed
ones, so you might want to learn a bit more about the industry before
you make uneducated claims.

> Don't you get angry you cannot copy the text out of an email and paste it
> into another email to someone else or a URL?

no. the way the iphone is organized, there is never much need to copy
and paste, info is better when it just moves from app to app like iLife.

you need to learn how the iPhone operates, then you won't make such
uninformed comments.

> I'd be really pissed, myself.  It angers me we have no JAVA runtime on the
> N800 Linux tablets.  NOAA uses JAVA a lot and I can't browse there.  The
> rest is pretty much covered.  I can't imagine being without Flash and
> javascript in any browser, today.

it's great since everything works correctly, no more guessing, the
iphone is a dream machine, everyone understands that, but for a few old
timers that like to live in the past, it's not going to meet your low
standards.
Kevin Weaver - 10 Sep 2008 23:17 GMT
>> Let's hold the childish name calling for a second and let me ask you for
>> an
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> timers that like to live in the past, it's not going to meet your low
> standards.

If there so_open_ then why not allow it without hacking ?
David Moyer - 11 Sep 2008 08:04 GMT
> > it's great since everything works correctly, no more guessing, the
> > iphone is a dream machine, everyone understands that, but for a few old
> > timers that like to live in the past, it's not going to meet your low
> > standards.
>
> If there so_open_ then why not allow it without hacking ?

Ask AT&T, Apple doesn't have a choice in that matter.
Larry - 11 Sep 2008 03:08 GMT
David Moyer <davmoy@world.com> wrote in news:48c8392e$0$33220$815e3792
@news.qwest.net:

> there is a difference between a common file and a "standard" file. you
> are wanting to play non-standard files which with Apple is not the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> you make uneducated claims.
>  

Apple needs to come out of its self-imposed closet and have a look in the
real world.  I'm sorry they're not the super company they want to be but it
is nonsense to expect every web designer to make special Apple pages and
bend to Apple's will.  Apple products should play the POPULAR formats the
web is famous for, no matter who instigated it.  If BBC plays videos in
Real Video embedded in the browser, Apple needs to license Real Video in
Safari to provide that service to its customers.....not leave them out in
the dark on some H264 nonsense hardly anyone uses but Apple.

This is just an attempt to force the customers to iTunes, another BOX
OFFICE feature to create revenue.

Apple products being "open standards" is really laughable.  They've been
trying, unsuccessfully, to get everyone else to use their proprietary mov
files for years.  Apple loves proprietary, otherwise they'd be running
Linux, not their proprietary, locked up operating system developers must
get on their knees and kiss Apple's feet to write software for.  That's
precisely why they never made it off the ground over Micro$oft....Anyone
can write code for windows....and do.
Todd Allcock - 12 Sep 2008 08:20 GMT
> > Don't you get angry you cannot copy the text out of an email and paste it
> > into another email to someone else or a URL?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> you need to learn how the iPhone operates, then you won't make such
> uninformed comments.

Um, do you really want to stand by that "data just flows" story?

When you tried it a month ago...
"In message <489fc1c8$0$87076$815e3...@news.qwest.net> David Moyer
<dav...@world.com> wrote:

>it's not really needed on the iphone since everything is so well weaved
>together. data just flows from one app to another kinda like how iLife
>operates. cut and paste was a throw back to the desktop era.

To which DevilsPGD responed:

> Wow.  That is *so* not true...  on the iPhone, we're a long way from
> data "just flowing" from one app to another well enough to alleviate
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> 6) Copy a sent or received SMS from one contact and send it via
> (SMS|email)

To which, you replied:

> all good points, it will happen in time.

So which is it, Oxy?  "there is never much need to copy and paste" or "it
will happen in time"?
Oxford - 13 Sep 2008 01:31 GMT
> > all good points, it will happen in time.
>
> So which is it, Oxy?  "there is never much need to copy and paste" or "it
> will happen in time"?

ah, can't you read? translation: the iphone isn't fully flushed out yet,
so in areas where copying data was traditionally important, the os &
apps will improve to allow symbolic links where "copying and pasting"
could be currently useful.
Todd Allcock - 13 Sep 2008 04:41 GMT
> > So which is it, Oxy?  "there is never much need to copy and paste" or "it
> > will happen in time"?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> apps will improve to allow symbolic links where "copying and pasting"
> could be currently useful.

So you're suggesting some sort of artificial intelligence "guessing" what
data I'll want to copy will replace traditional copy-and-paste?

Bold prediction, sir...  Wouldn't cut and paste be simpler?  Maybe you
could just make a "scissors" motion on the multi-touch?  Or maybe swipe,
lift, swipe, lift, swipe (in a "dotted line" pattern?)  ;-)
Larry - 13 Sep 2008 17:45 GMT
>> > So which is it, Oxy?  "there is never much need to copy and paste"
>> > or
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> could just make a "scissors" motion on the multi-touch?  Or maybe
> swipe, lift, swipe, lift, swipe (in a "dotted line" pattern?)  ;-)

I think a real possibility of why cut/paste was not implemented is the
poor finger pointing of the iphone.  I can't imagine trying to highlight
JUST a URL on a crowded webpage using my fat finger as a pointing device
due to the lack of an accurate stylus.  How could you get ONLY the
letters you want in a long URL without including other letters, even
lines, even magnified way out.  Magnified out, the end of the line is
way off screen on a url like:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1
&id=pcat17071&type=page&st=fm+transmitter&sc=Global&cp=1&nrp=15
&sp=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960

To avoid the customer backlash, they simply decided to keep them from
trying....which may not have been a bad decision when they were trying
to sell it as an iPod and web browser, not a computer device.
Todd Allcock - 14 Sep 2008 07:09 GMT
> > Wouldn't cut and paste be simpler?  Maybe you
> > could just make a "scissors" motion on the multi-touch?  Or maybe
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> trying....which may not have been a bad decision when they were trying
> to sell it as an iPod and web browser, not a computer device.

The way I understood it was that the cut-and-paste gestures were too
similar to the pinch and zoom (spread) gestures.

The iPhone's multi-touch interface was developed primarily from a company
called Fingerworks that Apple bought a few years ago, that developed a
touchpad that you used multitouch gestures on in lieu of a keyboard and
mouse.  

The gestures for cut, paste, and other editing functions are described here:
http://www.fingerworks.com/gesture_guide_editing.html

To implement cut-and-paste, Apple could just do something like put a "cut-
and-paste mode" icon somewhere on the display (or invent a gesture to enter
cut-and-paste mode,) to temporarily disable zooming so you could tap to
enter cut-and-paste mode, swipe from start to end point, then "pinch" to
cut/copy, and "spread" to paste.
Larry - 14 Sep 2008 07:19 GMT
> To implement cut-and-paste, Apple could just do something like put a
> "cut- and-paste mode" icon somewhere on the display (or invent a
> gesture to enter cut-and-paste mode,) to temporarily disable zooming
> so you could tap to enter cut-and-paste mode, swipe from start to end
> point, then "pinch" to cut/copy, and "spread" to paste.

I didn't notice when I was playing with them, but does iPhone time how long
you touch like the Linux tablet does for doubleclick or (dare I say it)
rightclick?  We have many gestures that are pressure sensitive and time
sensitive on the Linux tablets.  The display notifies you when you've held
it long enough for the menu mode with a rotating arrow around the point of
your stylus.  There's more pressure sensitive toys coming out, too, as that
is underutilized by the OS.

Press and wipe the text to highlight it (reverse video).  Press and hold to
popup the menu and click COPY to copy the highlighted text to the
clipboard.  Press and hold where you want the text to go, even if you open
another app and close the first one as what you copied to the clipboard is
permanent until shutdown regardless of apps or until you copy something
else to clipboard, of course.  Pick PASTE from the popup menu like
rightclicking on Windows.

I assume it's capable of something similar, right?  They wouldn't need to
add more hardware buttons, which seems to terrify Apple as it costs them
profits.

DON'T SHAKE IT!  That might spew letters all over or scramble them in
clipboard!...(c;
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 14 Sep 2008 13:12 GMT
> They wouldn't need to
> add more hardware buttons, which seems to terrify Apple as it costs them
> profits.

hmmmmmm......let's analyst Larry's statement there.

Apple is "terrified" of adding hardware buttons.

Last Tuesday, Apple introduced the refreshed iPod Touch.  It looks
remarkably like the previous model, except....hmmmmm.....could it
be.....why, are those two new hardware buttons on the side for
volume?!?!?!?!????!!!??????  Why......

And what's that I hear?  Is that sound coming from the iPod Touch
itself???  Is that a SPEAKER they added to it????

It's funny to watch people who don't know anything about a product, talk
trash about it.

Larry's like the religious community that refuses to go see a movie, yet
won't hesitate to march against it and try to get it banned.
David G. Imber - 11 Sep 2008 00:02 GMT
>Let's hold the childish name calling for a second

    How about forever?

>Don't you guys ever feel rather cheated while browsing things you cannot
>see or trying to play some common file it just won't play after spending
>all this money?

    No, for a few reasons I think are pretty good:

1. There really isn't anything that I NEED to do with my iPhone that I
can't. Can't see flash? Screw it. I don't really care. There's an
immeasurable amount of web out there I can see, and the iPhone browser
does a really fine job with it.

Also, I work in front of both Apple and PC computers 26.5 hours a day.
During the brief periods I'm not working out of my home office, my
need for the 'Net is limited to several important functions (e-mail,
quick fact-finding). These things, I have found, the iPhone does
extremely well.

2. What the iPhone DOES do for me, that other devices cannot or do
poorly, compensates for any potential features it lacks. Specifically,
it works in Japanese or English, or both, across all applications. It
does this flawlessly, and did so right out of the box. The Japanese
functionality was overseen by native Japanese users, so it's logical
and natural (to use Japanese in WinMo, for example, you have to use
third-party shareware that was written by Chinese people. We're lucky
they took the initiative, and I applaud them, but it isn't really a
good application for native users of Japanese, and delivers
inconsistent results under different applications and on different
networks and devices).

It also plays music pretty nicely and does lots of other handy things.
These things are all gravy, once the essentials are well taken care
of.

3. I write about design, and the iPhone is thoughtfully designed.
There are many devices out there that are put together like a Swiss
Army Knife created by people who don't know one another, via postcard.
They do lots of things, probably, but they're unwieldy messes that
have to be rebooted a dozen times a day. Trust me when I say I'm old
school, I've been there.

4. They're not really that expensive considering the convenience and
the above.

5. I have a life beyond my devices.

    DGI
Nigel - 12 Sep 2008 02:38 GMT
>> Let's hold the childish name calling for a second
>
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> DGI

Great post David - thoughtful, useful and no name calling.

Nigel
kacouch - 13 Oct 2008 03:04 GMT
Also, well stated!

Karen

>>> Let's hold the childish name calling for a second
>>
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>
> Nigel
Brian M. Scott - 10 Sep 2008 01:03 GMT
> Software 2.1 is due this weekend (September 14/15) for iPod Touch and
> iPhone with a raft of bug fixes for such things as dropped calls, short
> battery life, slow backups, app crashes, etc.

Can't wait for my next big disappointment!!!  I wonder how long my
phone will be
useless this time around!

> iTunes 8.0 should be ready to go for this afternoon sometime. Just check
> for updates when you open up the application.

Funny...Checking iTunes indicates that 7.7.1 was the most recent
version.
Going to itunes.com indicates 8.0 is available.  Is this a sign of
things to come?

Quick...where are my blood pressure pills?
DevilsPGD - 10 Sep 2008 01:07 GMT
In message
<6bc360ab-8317-409b-8662-e4dacd2e1fd2@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>

>Funny...Checking iTunes indicates that 7.7.1 was the most recent
>version.
>Going to itunes.com indicates 8.0 is available.  Is this a sign of
>things to come?

This is typical, it always takes Apple several hours to roll out updates
across their entire platform.
 
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