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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / September 2008iPhone 2.1 is now available
Plug in your phone to iTunes and update. More on the new features here: http://www.macworld.com/article/135528/2008/09/iphone21_features.html iPhone News <invalid@nospam.net> wrote in news:invalid- F7F4F8.19233012092008@news.giganews.com: > http://www.macworld.com/article/135528/2008/09/iphone21_features.html > For the security conscious, the Passcode Lock section of Settings now offers an option to erase all data on the iPhone after 10 failed attempts at entering the passcode You'll be able to tell if your little kid has been playing with your iPhone when you find it totally erased from him trying to find the passcode.... How many kids will die over this "feature" remains a mystery....(c; iPhone News <invalid@nospam.net> wrote in news:invalid- F7F4F8.19233012092008@news.giganews.com: > http://www.macworld.com/article/135528/2008/09/iphone21_features.html > "Apple also made a handful of security updates, including preventing applications from viewing each other’s data" I guess this means the spreadsheet output data isn't gonna be available to the word processor app to put into the big report to the CEO any time soon. This should make businessmen just peachy happy...... Doesn't anyone at Apple use any business apps anymore? How are we gonna put the spreadsheet's graphs on the report, too?? >> "Apple also made a handful of security updates, including preventing > applications from viewing each other's data" > > I guess this means the spreadsheet output data isn't gonna be available to > the word processor app to put into the big report to the CEO any time > soon. It didn't have a spreadsheet or word processor before, so this is a non-issue! ;-) > This should make businessmen just peachy happy...... > > Doesn't anyone at Apple use any business apps anymore? > > How are we gonna put the spreadsheet's graphs on the report, too?? On your $1700 MacBook Air? The Apple fans will cringe at the thought, but the iPhone is following in the footsteps that Microsoft's Windows CE (now Windows Mobile) devices pounded in the pavement long ago- MS made the devices semi-useful, but not so useful that anyone would consider owning one _instead_ of a laptop. (The original MS PDA devices were called "PC Companions," with many functions which required docking with a PC to perform.) It wasn't until 3rd party developers pushed the capabilities of WinMo devices did they become suitable laptop substitutes for many. But that concept is certainly not in Apple's (or Microsoft's) best interests. Why sell someone a mobile device instead of a laptop, if you can convince them they need both? Microsoft reportedly makes under $10 per unit on a windows Mobile license, vs. $25-30 or so per copy of XP or Vista bundled with a computer. Which would they rather sell? And as a hardware maker, Apple has even a bigger incentive to make sure the iPhone is a MacBook's "companion" and not it's substitute... "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote in news:gaf4k4$ikp$1 @aioe.org: > On your $1700 MacBook Air? Oops...I see....my mistake. Too much open source Linux use....(c; > iPhone News <invalid@nospam.net> wrote in news:invalid- > F7F4F8.19233012092008@news.giganews.com: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > How are we gonna put the spreadsheet's graphs on the report, too?? So Larry on the one hand you complain it will erase your data after 10 login attempts (more secure for business) but on the other you want it open for any app to read the others data........Gezzz. I don't think you understand how it works at all. Do you actually own an iphone at all????? Nigel > but on the other you want it open for > any app to read the others data........Gezzz. I don't know of a single app on a Windows PC, the standard business instrument in 99% of the desks in any company not associated with Apple, that cannot access any other file on that computer. It has served us very well! My email program can email the spreadsheet any place I want! It can send any document Word created, too! What stupid purpose is served by locking every file to ONE SPECIFIC application? Are we gonna SELL it to them later on? Why would Apple do such a stupid thing? There must be a reason, right?? > What stupid purpose is served by locking every file to ONE SPECIFIC > application? Are we gonna SELL it to them later on? Why would Apple do > such a stupid thing? There must be a reason, right?? Ultimately stability, speed and battery life. There is no multi-tasking or memory residency for applications, they live and die by the one button on the unit. Because of that rule, they can also make sure that one application is never going to look through the entrails left by a previous one - a common means of an attack if you look at desktop security exploits. Keep asking the questions ;-)  SignatureAdrian C > I don't know of a single app on a Windows PC, the standard business > instrument in 99% of the desks in any company not associated with Apple, > that cannot access any other file on that computer. Apparently you've never used Windows NT, 2000, XP or Vista then. > What stupid purpose is served by locking every file to ONE SPECIFIC > application? Are we gonna SELL it to them later on? Why would Apple do > such a stupid thing? There must be a reason, right?? Firstly, you're missing the main point, which is that programs should not be able to alter the *code files* of other programs. Secondly, if apps are going to access other apps' document data files, there should be some API to do this. There isn't. The iPhone isn't meant to do this. If you want a phone that does this, don't get an iPhone. I don't get why you hang around this group constantly whingeing that the iPhone isn't the phone you want. Fine. It isn't the phone for you. Don't buy it. It is, however, the phone for a lot of people - who, bizarrely enough, don't have the same requirements as you, because, again bizarrely enough, they are not the same person as you. Perhaps it might turn out that you are not the centre of the universe after all. > Firstly, you're missing the main point, which is that programs should > not be able to alter the *code files* of other programs. No, I didn't miss the point. The point is iPhone is an MP3 player with a built-in video game and sellphone behind a sales gimmick billboard. But, some think it's something else, which it's not. >> Firstly, you're missing the main point, which is that programs should >> not be able to alter the *code files* of other programs. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > But, some think it's something else, which it's not. I don't know what *you* think what it is, but for me it's also a web browser, a nice email client and a fairly handy eBook reader. Well, I don't have an iPhone actually, but an iPod touch. Anyway. I agree with you that Apple is exercising a degree of control over the thing that's unhealthy for all and I think that nobody really denies that. Jochem Signature"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery > Well, I > don't have an iPhone actually, but an iPod touch. The Touch is a better device! You did the right thing. ATT has no stranglehold on the Touch, only Apple. That reduces the bullshit by 50%! >> Well, I >> don't have an iPhone actually, but an iPod touch. > > The Touch is a better device! You did the right thing. ATT has no > stranglehold on the Touch, only Apple. That reduces the bullshit by 50%! Yes. So why not buy one? You have to be in this game to get anything out of it. From where you are standing, you look like a coward. Very unfortunate for someone who is bright in other respects. SignatureAdrian C Adrian C <email@here.invalid> wrote in news:6javkrF2c2r2U1 @mid.individual.net: > Yes. So why not buy one? You have to be in this game to get anything out > of it. From where you are standing, you look like a coward. > > Very unfortunate for someone who is bright in other respects. Too bright for Apple. Sorry, I had to say it. I don't buy "CONTROLLED" devices limited by any company. I'm an open source guy and it serves me very well. From as far back as the first hard drive MP3 players, I have never paid for one that required any kind of "control" software to be installed on the host system. From the Archos Studio 20 to the Motorola ROKR Z6m Alltel in my pocket, all music playing devices MUST be treated as external drives by Windows or Linux based PCs. This means you MUST be able to use the simplest of file managers, even the raw COPY command of a DOS window, to move files on AND OFF every device I buy. I'm sorry, but your Apple-controlled iTunes nanny disqualifies these devices from my catalogue. It's really a pity, too. I buy lots of devices, every year. Apple has probably lost a couple thousand dollars in the process from just one potential customer, to the detriment of its stockholders. I continue to spread my venom across ALL devices so controlled, including Apple's. I have a slight following of thankful people who DON'T own iPods for the same reason. The Nokia Linux tablets easily fulfill my requirements as their standard memory cards do not require more than a USB adapter because desktop PCs haven't kept up with drivers for the huge cards I use. By the way, the Sandisk USB adapters have yet to disappoint me charging these cards with files of all kinds. No nanny files hidden from view are resident, of course. They are unnecessary. H: CD\MUSIC\80S COPY *.* M:\80S ...Card loads with 80's music with a few very simple commands....without Daddy telling you you can't do something because you didn't pay him enough. Yecch....how stupid people are to be lead around like cattle. > H: > CD\MUSIC\80S [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Yecch....how stupid people are to be lead around like cattle. Mooooo!!! So you admit you are a coward. OK, How big is your music collection? I bet tiny.... How many artists? Do you index it on tags in MP3, or do you just hope filenaming and folder heirarchy is sufficient. Do you build playlists, or do you listen in "file name order" Do you back it up, Can you do manual replication and find missing/duplicate media .... All above with the command line or a file explorer? Tiresome but good for you superman. Show us your favorite CLI scripts!!! If not iTunes, you *surely* need a database for file managment ;-) SignatureAdrian C Adrian C <email@here.invalid> wrote in news:6jc10rF2ebvnU1 @mid.individual.net: > OK, How big is your music collection? I bet tiny.... > How many artists? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > If not iTunes, you *surely* need a database for file managment ;-) The music collection is approximately 21,800,000 files, give or take a million or two and there are too many duplicates with small changes to the ID3 tag to do any kind of auto dup elimination. I gave that up years ago. Artists? The collection runs from Edison's first commercial wax cylinder to about the 1990-99 rock scene, skipping most rapcrap nonsense. After that date, there's quite a bit of European DJ noise, a limited amount of rock, what rock is still left with some shitkickin' country rock and stuff for parties. How many artists? The ID3 tags are incomplete so that count is impossible. All of them? Indexing is by the finest MP3 catalog program I ever found. "MP3 Catalog Pro" written by some really smart Russians at www.wizetech.com for $30 will scan a large part of the collection, that part across many huge USB drives I leave online most of the time. I occasionally, but not often enough, rescan the drives when the computer has a few hours with nothing to do, which isn't often downloading from usenet 24/7. If you have a large collection, I highly recommend MP3 Catalog Pro for Win98 to Vista. It's catalog is ONLINE, IN MEMORY and is lightning fast at finding one title in a hard drive collection of several million titles in less than 1 second. Pick the rendition of the title by the artist of your choice and simply drag it into Winamp's playlist to play it. DJing a party becomes fully automatic and need not be baby sat all night worrying over levels, crossing from song to song seamlessly with a few simple Winamp plugins like SqrSoft's great crossfading plugin using the very CPU intensive Sound Solution 5-band compressor/expander/limiter/keyed AGC processor suitable for FM broadcasting. These plugins are free at winamp.com, too, last time I upgraded them, which was about a year ago. If something works great, I never upgrade it. I use the same softwares on a Gateway laptop, selecting one of the music USB hard drives with music appropriate to the people at a party as a portable DJ source plugged into a simple DJ board, QSC 1450 watt blowtorch and four JBL prosound cabinets I bought for a pittance blown from a garage band that needed cash. I'm an Emminence speaker dealer, among other manufacturers, and repopulated the JBL acoustic horn boxes with Emminence 15" monsters: http://www.eminence.com/proaudio_speaker_detail.asp? web_detail_link=KILOMAXPRO15A&speaker_size=15&SUB_CAT_ID=1 That aluminum grid in the center of the woofer is a HEAT SINK to carry off heat from the voice coils. It's cooled by the airflow through the center of the speaker caused by the cone excursions, even in my ducted port cabinets. My amp on 4 speakers conservatively rates these beasts to make them last for years. I never power any speaker over 25% of capacity. That way, you never wear them down. Take my word for it...it's LOUD enough. The large horn midrange/tweeters in the JBL cabinets were protected from the DC of the blowing cheap amp by the series non-polar caps in the crossover networks. Their woofers caught fire with high voltage DC applied by the unprotected cheap amp. I can deliver several million songs anywhere the party is in about an hour...(c; I used to do it for work....now it's for fun..... I have many playlists I've collected over the years, but rarely use them as it's too much a PITA. I get bored listening to playlists repeating. I'd rather put a 50,000 song mix on a directory and let Winamp randomize it to surprise me. Those directories are copies from the master drives, so when I get bored, I simply delete the directory and load something different. On the tablet, there are "mood directories" to play according to what mood I'm in (and how drunk I get, usually). As a party mood changes, I simply load a different directory and randomize it until the party mood moves to a different direction, then change again. Late at night, when the ladies have disco'd themselves out, don't keep running high beat music like most clubs do. Slow the pace ending in something REALLY romantic to move their moods in that direction....for when the party winds down. Sexy Slow Jazz grinding across her enibriated mind just makes that thing BUZZ!....(c; Just don't let her near other males in this state, of course, for obvious reasons. There are thousands of dupes on the system. It cannot be helped from Usenet. If I stumble upon one and have the time, I might dump the worst one. If I can't take the time, it stays. Duping and checking this many files would be a career of tedium. Drive space is cheap. 1TB now costs $189 and will store hundreds of thousands of MP3 files. What would be the point? What's a CLI script? Can drugs cure it? You must be kidding me. Drag it into a media player and play it....or just play everything in shuffle mode until you tire of it. I rarely hear it play a song I've heard "this week" over again. If I do, just make the directory bigger....(c; ====================================================================== We used to record the radio to a steel wire recorder made by Western Electric. Then, some smartass invented magnetic tape on big reels. I still have one of those, a Pioneer RT-707 in the rack for old times sake. We copied reel-to-reel off on 8-tracks, then moved into cassettes for the cars. I missed DAT because it was way overpriced, which is why few bought it and its "music tax" scheme of paying music companies for blank tapes. I had one of the first large platter video disk players Pioneer Laservision in the South. Media was priced so high it died a slow death. They never learn. The new CDs Norelco invented soon gave way to recordable media that was "marginal" at best and very fragile. Before that, we put wav audio onto floppy discs and the computers were swamped trying to play anything on the new sound cards. Things have gotten better....so good the music industry paid the politicians to create what you are faced with now. It's the same music at about the same quality of my first stereo reel-to-reel tape deck, but has less hiss. The music, itself, has gone to sh.t, a computer- generated, repetitive noise overmic'd with some drug addict from the slums. Why would anyone buy it? How silly. >> Well, I >> don't have an iPhone actually, but an iPod touch. > > The Touch is a better device! You did the right thing. ATT has no > stranglehold on the Touch, only Apple. That reduces the bullshit by > 50%! A couple of clicks to jailbreak it and even Apple has no stranglehold on it anymore. If you would accept that then you'd have to confess that it is actually quite a nice device... And I'm still quite sure that for most "normal" people the stranglehold of both Apple and ATT is no great deal. People who pay through their noses for a bucket of bad coffee at Starbucks probably don't care that much for not really cheap ATT plans either and still they get a great device from Apple for their money. You surely can't build and program one for yourself for those few bucks. Jochem Signature"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery > A couple of clicks to jailbreak it and even Apple has no stranglehold on > it anymore. If you would accept that then you'd have to confess that it > is actually quite a nice device... But why pay so MUCH for a device you must crack before you can use it when there are so many nice devices that do not require you to hack into them, voiding your warranty, that work as good or better. I can't believe it's Brand Loyalty. You guys aren't that stupid, maybe just a little naive. Noone has jailbroken 3G iPhones. Apple seems to have corrected that error and I suspect the Touch will be next to feel the strangling. It's nonsense! Apple's customer attitude sucks, but you continue to buy. These devices aren't really that nice! > Noone has jailbroken 3G iPhones. Apple seems to have corrected that error > and I suspect the Touch will be next to feel the strangling. plenty of people have jailbroken 3g iphones. the tool came out days after the phone's release and the latest update came out only one day after the 2.1 iphone firmware was released. what has not yet been done is unlocking the 3g iphone. right now, the only way to do that is with a spoof sim card. the original iphone can still be unlocked, even with the new firmware. > It's nonsense! Apple's customer attitude sucks, but you continue to buy. > These devices aren't really that nice! according to a changewave survey done several months ago, 79% of iphone users are 'very satisfied' (not merely satisfied) with it. while it may not suit your needs, it clearly does for others. >> A couple of clicks to jailbreak it and even Apple has no stranglehold on >> it anymore. If you would accept that then you'd have to confess that it [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > It's nonsense! Apple's customer attitude sucks, but you continue to buy. > These devices aren't really that nice! It's no more complicated that breaking the region coding on some DVD players. Manufacturers will always do anything they can to keep your custom whether it be servicing at a car dealership, matching accessories that intergrate better with their device or by trying to prevent/restrict your use of third part accessories/software. Apple is no different. A clever consumer makes an educated decision to buy a product knowing those restrictions and ways round them. Mike Mike <mikeloveschampagneandrugby@googlemail.com> wrote in news:gare9o$l1p$1 @registered.motzarella.org: > A clever consumer makes an educated decision to buy a product knowing > those restrictions and ways round them. A VERY clever consumer ignores the logo and company name and buys the products that do what he wants DIRECTLY without all the hacking bullshit. There are many to choose from....even now! > Mike <mikeloveschampagneandrugby@googlemail.com> wrote in news:gare9o$l1p$1 > @registered.motzarella.org: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > products that do what he wants DIRECTLY without all the hacking > bullshit. You just overestimate the nerdness of the general population. For many people the iPhone (or the iPod touch) does very much what they want without hacking it and it does this in a straight and convenient way. I think Apple just doesn't care for you very much the same way you don't care for Apple. Well, no. Apple doesn't try to tell other people what an a.shole you are ;-) Jochem Signature"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery > I think Apple just doesn't care for you very much the same way you don't > care for Apple. Well, no. Apple doesn't try to tell other people what an > a.shole you are ;-) More childish name calling. A typical Run-Bunny-Run customer?? >> I think Apple just doesn't care for you very much the same way you don't >> care for Apple. Well, no. Apple doesn't try to tell other people what an >> a.shole you are ;-) > > More childish name calling. A typical Run-Bunny-Run customer?? I'm not here long enough to pass judgment on anyone but as I always say.... "making enemies and pissing people off is directly proportional to the number of posts one makes". Even Ghandi would piss people off after a few thousand posts. Signature"Money Won is Twice as Sweet as Money Earned" ... Fast Eddie Felson JK www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com >>> I think Apple just doesn't care for you very much the same way you don't >>> care for Apple. Well, no. Apple doesn't try to tell other people what an [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the number of posts one makes". Even Ghandi would piss people off after a > few thousand posts. Well you've just made 600m potential enemies with one post, that's a record! Mike >> Well, I >> don't have an iPhone actually, but an iPod touch. > > The Touch is a better device! You did the right thing. ATT has no > stranglehold on the Touch, only Apple. That reduces the bullshit by 50%! My iphone isn't in an ATT stranglehold. Mike Mike <mikeloveschampagneandrugby@googlemail.com> wrote in news:gare0n$i8o$1 @registered.motzarella.org: > My iphone isn't in an ATT stranglehold. No, but it's STILL in an Apple iTunes stranglehold, right? What's the difference?? Lemme know when you can plug it into a Windows box, use Windows Explorer to copy MP3, DivX, AVI, mpg, FLAC, OGG, MIDI and wav files to it and just press the button to play any of them on it with no background nanny files. You'll need to write some codecs, of course..... Lemme know when you can move the files OFF it to your laptop or over Bluetooth to some other sellphone, either directly or over the air. Until then....it's not jailbroken at all..... | Plug in your phone to iTunes and update. | | More on the new features here: | | http://www.macworld.com/article/135528/2008/09/iphone21_features.html Right you are! I sync'd three iPhones today. iPhone #1 (my own). No improvement in battery life, and broke an application (AdelaVoice Voice Dialer) so that it crashes my iPhone even more often than before! That's saying something; my iPhone crashes about 3 times/day. iPhone #2 (one of my reps). Bricked. Had to go to the Apple Store to recover. The standard methods of recovery didn't work. Endless loops. iPhone #3 (my wife's). Hasn't been used yet so it has yet to turn on me. :>) (Overall the iPhone has been a very useful gadget, useful enough to overlook the crashing issues. But am I the only person who finds the Mac vs PC ads kinda funny, given that the Apple OS on the iPhone crashes far more often than the worst PC I've ever had?) --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com > Hasn't been used yet so it has yet to turn on me. Your wife or the iPhone? >> Hasn't been used yet so it has yet to turn on me. > > Your wife or the iPhone? Both I suspect. I once broke my wifes nokia, (technically it was the ground ...) and she was phoneless over xmas, I was very nearly wifelss by the NY. Mike > Both I suspect. I once broke my wifes nokia, (technically it was the > ground ...) and she was phoneless over xmas, I was very nearly wifelss > by the NY. This is potentially very useful information. Filed away for future use. Signature"I'm gonna get a penis in every movie I do from now on." - Judd Apatow >> Both I suspect. I once broke my wifes nokia, (technically it was the >> ground ...) and she was phoneless over xmas, I was very nearly wifelss >> by the NY. > > This is potentially very useful information. Filed away for future use. I always keep a spare unlocked handset, currently a K800i from my last contract. A wise man never comes between his wife and her mobile usage. Mike Mike <mikeloveschampagneandrugby@googlemail.com> wrote in news:gagpj2$7fl$1 @registered.motzarella.org: > A wise man never comes between his wife and her mobile usage. A wise man never comes between his wife and ANYTHING, if he knows what's good for him..... > Mike <mikeloveschampagneandrugby@googlemail.com> wrote in news:gagpj2$7fl$1 > @registered.motzarella.org: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > A wise man never comes between his wife and ANYTHING, if he knows what's > good for him..... If you follow that mantra you wouldn't be a man! It's a matter of picking your battles - car model: me, car colour: the wife. TV: me what's shown on it: the wife ...... oh sh.t Mike Mike <mikeloveschampagneandrugby@googlemail.com> wrote in news:gah31m$1i1$1 @registered.motzarella.org: > oh sh.t What happened? Did she walk by and see what you typed? Mike <mikeloveschampagneandrugby@googlemail.com> wrote in news:gah31m$1i1$1 @registered.motzarella.org: > oh sh.t In 1992, my wife said she was gonna leave me if I didn't turn off the computer and pay attention to what she was saying to me. Sometimes I miss her, but most times NOT! Before that event, I couldn't keep a half-full glass of iced tea on my desk. If I turned around to pick up something, when I turned back my glass had been "put up" against my will. Not a single piece of clothing ever fell all the way to a chair or the floor before being snatched up by a magic force. After she left, I put a dirty t-shirt right in the middle of the bedroom floor. That way, if she snuck back into the house I could tell she'd been in here because, of course, it would have been "put up" where it belonged. So far, that t-shirt is still sitting right where I put it.....just like my iced tea glass, ON THE DESK, not on the damned coaster! Living alone isn't all that lonely when inanimate objects you love don't move themselves. > In 1992, my wife said she was gonna leave me if I didn't turn off the > computer and pay attention to what she was saying to me. > > Sometimes I miss her, but most times NOT! and why is no one, NO ONE, a bit surprised at hearing this? > > In 1992, my wife said she was gonna leave me if I didn't turn off the > > computer and pay attention to what she was saying to me. > > > > Sometimes I miss her, but most times NOT! > > and why is no one, NO ONE, a bit surprised at hearing this? I was surprised... ...that she lasted until '92! ;-) ....i think Larr's wife left him for an iPhone on AT&T :) >> > In 1992, my wife said she was gonna leave me if I didn't turn off the >> > computer and pay attention to what she was saying to me. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > ...that she lasted until '92! ;-) > ....i think Larr's wife left him for an iPhone on AT&T :) > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> ...that she lasted until '92! ;-) ... and uses the support Larry pays for the contract, that would explain his predjuice! Mike > Mike <mikeloveschampagneandrugby@googlemail.com> wrote in > news:gah31m$1i1$1 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Sometimes I miss her, but most times NOT! Shag while you defrag? Signature"Never bet on the end of the world because it's only going to happen once and how are you going to collect?" JK www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com > Mike <mikeloveschampagneandrugby@googlemail.com> wrote in news:gagpj2$7fl$1 > @registered.motzarella.org: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > A wise man never comes between his wife and ANYTHING, if he knows what's > good for him..... For once I agree with Larry - very wise advice! You know there are 3 ways to control a woman, and no one knows any of them! Nigel > For once I agree with Larry - very wise advice! You know there are 3 > ways to control a woman, and no one knows any of them! > > Nigel When she says, "We need to talk!", it means SHE needs to talk and YOU need to listen! When I married mine, the priest nearly rolled over laughing when I asked him when the Catholic Church was gonna send me the USERS MANUAL! Even the cheapest MP3 player that comes free with the new electric drill has a USERS MANUAL! http://humor-world.blogspot.com/2007/09/womens-compact-instruction- manual.html They have user manuals on us.... We get jokeware like: http://cindycandal.blogspot.com/2007/03/user-woman-guide.html http://www.amazon.com/Woman-Guide-Every-Should-todays/dp/1412051932 Name 4 things on your desk that cost this much that you must BUY the manual from Amazon....instead of it being included in the box! >> For once I agree with Larry - very wise advice! You know there are 3 >> ways to control a woman, and no one knows any of them! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > When she says, "We need to talk!", it means SHE needs to talk and YOU > need to listen! Many men fantasize, some at great profit like John Norman, of a "better way". If you've never read the Chronicles of Gor series of books and shared them with a female inclined to a little fantasy game play....you simply haven't lived, yet. Try it....(c; Read each chapter together! Ask your public librarian if she has the Chronicles of Gor. Watch the telltale look on her face CONFIRMING she has read them....(c; Women love them....even the librarians with those little eyeglass chains around their necks. Used book stores are a good place to pick them up if you aren't into bit torrent downloading: http://www.zoozle.org/dl.php?goto=http://www.mininova.org/tor/1407835 &desc=John%20Norman%20Gor%20Novels&lang=en&cat=Torrent Need a date for this weekend? Read Gor novels in plain sight in any public place, even the library. I never met a woman who I'd want to sleep with that didn't at least know what they were...(c; You don't look like any of the Tarnsmen in the books, so keep the lights down low, so not to spoil the fun. You smell like tarnsmen after mowing the lawn or coming back from the gym with the broken hot water heater. TA! >> For once I agree with Larry - very wise advice! You know there are 3 >> ways to control a woman, and no one knows any of them! [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Name 4 things on your desk that cost this much that you must BUY the manual > from Amazon....instead of it being included in the box! Some manufacturers assume when you buy a very expensive complex piece of equipment you have half a clue what you're doing or can figure/research it yourself. Clearly when acquiring a wife (or civil partner if that's you're bag baby) the same assumption is made. Research can be fun though. Mike Mike <mikeloveschampagneandrugby@googlemail.com> wrote in news:game3h$1pk$1 @registered.motzarella.org: > Research can be fun though. ....oh, great fun.....but sometimes DANGEROUS! Men have been KILLED, experimenting! Lorraine Bobbitt comes to mind....(c; > Mike <mikeloveschampagneandrugby@googlemail.com> wrote in news:game3h$1pk$1 > @registered.motzarella.org: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Lorraine Bobbitt comes to mind....(c; He wasn't actually killed and aside from a few scars came out pretty well with his 15mins and a new career. Mike Mike <mikeloveschampagneandrugby@googlemail.com> wrote in news:gap1bi$vec$1 @registered.motzarella.org: > and a new career. He sings tenor??...(c; > Mike <mikeloveschampagneandrugby@googlemail.com> wrote in news:gap1bi$vec$1 > @registered.motzarella.org: > >> and a new career. > > He sings tenor??...(c; No he became a porn star after the surgery. Mike > (Overall the iPhone has been a very useful gadget, useful enough to overlook > the crashing issues. But am I the only person who finds the Mac vs PC ads > kinda funny, given that the Apple OS on the iPhone crashes far more often > than the worst PC I've ever had?) This is unusual. I'm just not seeing scads of reports like this. In fact I'm not seeing any. So I kind of doubt it's inherent to the iPhone. I suspect something else is going on. Signature"I'm gonna get a penis in every movie I do from now on." - Judd Apatow | > (Overall the iPhone has been a very useful gadget, useful enough to overlook | > the crashing issues. But am I the only person who finds the Mac vs PC ads [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | I'm not seeing any. So I kind of doubt it's inherent to the iPhone. I | suspect something else is going on. Among my customers it's not very unusual at all. But it remains tolerable. There's far more good than bad to the iPhone. --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com > This is unusual. I'm just not seeing scads of reports like this. Come on people snap out of it. The post was an obvoius troll post. Most likely a Larry sock puppet. The giveaway was that it didn't change the battery life. It has prolonged it twice over for me and every other persons I've read online. > > This is unusual. I'm just not seeing scads of reports like this. > > Come on people snap out of it. The post was an obvoius troll post. Most > likely a Larry sock puppet. The giveaway was that it didn't change the > battery life. It has prolonged it twice over for me and every other > persons I've read online. Oh, please. If a firmware update could double your battery life it'd mean Apple wrote the crappyest firmware EVER for the first versions. Unless there was a _serious_ bug in the last version (i.e. WiFi stayed powered all the time, even if you turned it off) there's no way in hell battery life can be "doubled" via a firmware update alone. There's a troll in this thread, all right, but it wasn't MC... Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote in news:gai7dh$tr6$1 @aioe.org: > Unless there was a _serious_ bug in the last version (i.e. WiFi stayed > powered all the time, even if you turned it off) there's no way in hell > battery life can be "doubled" via a firmware update alone. Everybody keeps blaming wifi for these ills. Sitting next to me is a Netgear wifi Skype phone that has run continuously for 4 days and handled numerous phone calls without being charged. It only runs on wifi and only does Skype. Why doesn't wifi eat its battery?? The problem with iPhone, N8xx, PDAs and all the rest of the little tablets is the DISPLAY EATS THE BATTERY. Think I'm crazy? Simply turn your brightness down to less than half and time it all this week. The bright display, running all the time on games and toys and stuff simply sucks the very life out of the little batteries....in any of these devices....same as it does in your laptop, macbook, shitair, etc. The display on the little netgear phone stays on 5 seconds after the last button press.... > > Unless there was a _serious_ bug in the last version (i.e. WiFi stayed > > powered all the time, even if you turned it off) there's no way in hell > > battery life can be "doubled" via a firmware update alone. > > Everybody keeps blaming wifi for these ills. I'm using it as an example of something that could be left on that you wouldn't notice if the phone's indicator told you it was off. If the display and/or backlight stayed on all the time, for example, you'd notice! > Sitting next to me is a > Netgear wifi Skype phone that has run continuously for 4 days and handled > numerous phone calls without being charged. It only runs on wifi and only > does Skype. Why doesn't wifi eat its battery?? Good question- most of the complaints I've read online about WiFi phones is that the battery life sucks. > The problem with iPhone, N8xx, PDAs and all the rest of the little tablets > is the DISPLAY EATS THE BATTERY. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > batteries....in any of these devices....same as it does in your laptop, > macbook, shitair, etc. Werner Ruotsalainen, a Microsoft Mobile Device MVP, and writer for Pocket PC Magazine ran power consumption tests on various Windows Mobile devices that might surprise you. http://www.winmobiletech.com/092006PowerConsumption/table.html While the displays and backlights consume a lot of current, so does WiFi (but interestingly, not bluetooth- it's so low power it only consumes 1-2 mAH!) As the table shows us, the devices (with all radios off) consume 60-70mA with no backlight, 120 or so at low, and 230 or so at full brightness. So full bright is just under a 200mA increase. WiFi brought consumption up 200mA or more depending on device- equal to or more than backlighting at full. > The display on the little netgear phone stays on 5 seconds after the last > button press.... How big a battery does it pack? My HTC phone uses a 1300mAH battery and can't make through a day with push email turned on and a couple hours of PDA and WiFi use. > As the table shows us, the devices (with all radios off) consume > 60-70mA with no backlight, 120 or so at low, and 230 or so at full > brightness. So full bright is just under a 200mA increase. WiFi > brought consumption up 200mA or more depending on device- equal to or > more than backlighting at full. That might be true of a small smartphone with a tiny display like my Z6m, but, referring to my Sharp example at nearly 900 ma, 200 ma won't even light up the end of these BIG DISPLAYS! > > As the table shows us, the devices (with all radios off) consume > > 60-70mA with no backlight, 120 or so at low, and 230 or so at full [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > but, referring to my Sharp example at nearly 900 ma, 200 ma won't even > light up the end of these BIG DISPLAYS! The devices in the table I linked were all Windows Mobile devices with 2.8" to 3.5" screens- hardly the "tiny displays" of dumbphones. 'Todd Allcock[_2_ Wrote: > -- > As the table shows us, the devices (with all radios off) consume [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > 2.8" > to 3.5" screens- hardly the "tiny displays" of dumbphones. iphone 2.1 firmware is now available with faster loading and searchin of contacts, having better battery life and also includes geniou playlist creation -- selena Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote in news:gaidot$li6$1 @aioe.org: > How big a battery does it pack? My HTC phone uses a 1300mAH battery and > can't make through a day with push email turned on and a couple hours of > PDA and WiFi use. The Netgear has an 860maH 3.7V cell. The Skype in it doesn't support it being offered as a supernode, keeping the load off it. > Oh, please. If a firmware update could double your battery life it'd > mean Apple wrote the crappyest firmware EVER for the first versions. Here's a brand new 4.3" 320 x 240 262,000 color Sharp LED display. I have no idea what iPhone's display is but it doesn't matter. They are all illuminated by super bright LEDs, in this case seven of them for this brand new type of 4.3" display. http://document.sharpsma.com/files/LQ035Q3DG01_24_Oct_07.pdf (find a real computer that can display Acrobat files to read it.) Now, look on page 9 under "LED electricity consumption" and you'll see it uses 123 mw (.123 watts) PER LED so we multiply X 7 and get a full brightness LED power consumption of .123 x 7 = .861 WATTS CONTINUOUSLY WHILE THE DISPLAY IS LIT UP FULL! A little arithmetic.....we have a 3.7V battery that's being drained by .861 watts VxA=W so A=W/V A=.861/3.7 = add 5, carry the 2, count fingers = .2327AMPS! 232.7MA at full brightness on 7 LEDs lighting up the damned screen for the Run, Bunny, Run game! I think the Fruitfone has an 1100maH battery so 1100/232.7= 4.7 hours of lighting up the 7 LEDs for this 4.3" bright LCD display.....DOING NOTHING ELSE like operating a Sellphone digital transmitter, operating a Sellphone data transmitter, operating a 400 Mhz ARM-processor computer with 16GB of memory that requires power, operating a GPS receiver that listens to 12 channels simultaneously, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum IT WILL ONLY LIGHT UP THE SCREEN AT FULL BRIGHTNESS FOR 4.7 HOURS EVEN IF THE SCREEN ELECTRONICS ISN'T RUNNING OR ANYTHING ELSE! Now, to save power, firmware COULD, easily, TURN THE BRIGHTNESS DOWN! If we reduced the brightness to 1/4 output, we'd save HALF the current load on the battery from the display lights....over 9 hours runtime minus what the phone uses. Nothing else in the phone uses anywhere near 900 mw of power CONTINUOUSLY. That pretty, BRIGHT LCD TV screen is hell on batteries.... LOGIC, PEOPLE, LOGIC! The flashlight apps eat more power than all the other apps put together!....(c; Wavin' the iPhone at a concert instead of your gas lighter EATS THE BATTERY! My penis IS longer than yours. If I sit and watch internet TV or a movie at full brightness during lunch, but the time I leave after the coffee...the N800 needs charging, too! This notion is not rocket science...(c; >> This is unusual. I'm just not seeing scads of reports like this. > > Come on people snap out of it. The post was an obvoius troll post. Most > likely a Larry sock puppet. The giveaway was that it didn't change the > battery life. It has prolonged it twice over for me and every other > persons I've read online. You're misreading me. I *like* the iPhone! And I'm certain it's going to get its bugs worked out. But 2.1 didn't appear to have any effect on battery life (although for you or I or anyone else to make claims about that after only a couple of days might be premature) and it certainly didn't stop my phone from crashing. But, as I said, it's a worthwhile gadget. On the balance sheet, it's way up in the "favorable" column. But seriously, every time I see those Mac vs PC ads talking about PCs crashing all the time... its degree of truthfulness is more similar to a political ad than factual observance, at least if you throw the iPhone into the mix. As I said previously, I have no recent Mac experience, so I'll just have to take Apple's word for it that they don't crash. But then, rarely do my PCs. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA >> (Overall the iPhone has been a very useful gadget, useful enough to overlook >> the crashing issues. But am I the only person who finds the Mac vs PC ads [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'm not seeing any. So I kind of doubt it's inherent to the iPhone. I > suspect something else is going on. I agree its unusual. Is your iphone jailbroken by chance or running native apple firmware? Nigel >>> (Overall the iPhone has been a very useful gadget, useful enough to >>> overlook [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Nigel Nope, not jailbroken, and now 2.1 firmware. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA > Right you are! I sync'd three iPhones today. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > (Overall the iPhone has been a very useful gadget, useful enough to overlook the crashing issues. But am I the only person who finds the Mac vs PC ads kinda funny, given that the Apple OS on the iPhone crashes far more often than the worst PC I've ever had?) Are you talking iPhone 1 or the 3G here? My 3G hasn't crashed once in the 6 weeks or more that I've had it. The 2.1 update is giving me MUCH faster backups and syncs when I hook it up to my Macbook Pro. The 3G connection is showing as stronger, but it's hard to tell if that's just a trick of the gauge, rather than REALLY stronger - I live in a reasonably good 3G area anyway. So far, the only app I had that didn't work after the update was Speed Dial, but all it needed was to re-edit the keys. Presumably the Contacts database got re-written in a different format by the update, hence the speedier loading of the Contacts. And this re-writing upset Speed Dial. Now I've re-edited the 9 "keys" it works as well as it always did. So, for me, everything WAS working, everything still IS working, and v2.1 seems to have improved some things. SignatureNightStalker Previously on misc.phone.mobile.iphone, NightStalker said: > So, for me, everything WAS working, everything still IS working, and > v2.1 seems to have improved some things. How about the new iTunes? Can't get the new iPhone firmware without first upgrading iTunes. Any problems with iTunes 8 and WinXP Pro? SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "Fools to the left of me; feeders to the right. I need to find a real job." (Amb. Mollari, B5 "Grail") > How about the new iTunes? Can't get the new iPhone firmware without > first upgrading iTunes. Any problems with iTunes 8 and WinXP Pro? Nope - no probs at all. Installed and working fuss-free. SignatureNightStalker Previously on misc.phone.mobile.iphone, NightStalker said: > > How about the new iTunes? Can't get the new iPhone firmware without > > first upgrading iTunes. Any problems with iTunes 8 and WinXP Pro? > > Nope - no probs at all. Installed and working fuss-free. Good to know, thanks. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "I suppose there'll be a war now, hmm? All that running around and shooting one another. You would have thought sooner or later it would go out of fashion." (Amb. Mollari, B5 "The Gathering") > Are you talking iPhone 1 or the 3G here? The iPhone that "bricked" was first-generation (Edge). All others current 3G. > My 3G hasn't crashed once in the 6 weeks or more that I've had it. Nor has my kids or wife's. But they're not running voice dialer or remote desktop software either. I do, and mine crashes, sometimes running those piece of software, sometimes all on its own. > The 2.1 update is giving me MUCH faster backups and syncs when I hook it > up to my Macbook Pro. The 3G connection is showing as stronger, but > it's hard to tell if that's just a trick of the gauge, rather than > REALLY stronger - I live in a reasonably good 3G area anyway. Same thing here. Sync goes faster. 3G signal *appears* stronger. > So far, the only app I had that didn't work after the update was Speed > Dial, but all it needed was to re-edit the keys. Presumably the > Contacts database got re-written in a different format by the update, > hence the speedier loading of the Contacts. And this re-writing upset > Speed Dial. Now I've re-edited the 9 "keys" it works as well as it > always did. Interesting. The only app that broke (with 2.1 update) was my voice-dialing program. Might be a similar situation. > So, for me, everything WAS working, everything still IS working, and > v2.1 seems to have improved some things. Signature--Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA >> >> Right you are! I sync'd three iPhones today. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > So, for me, everything WAS working, everything still IS working, and > v2.1 seems to have improved some things. > Nor has my kids or wife's. But they're not running voice dialer or > remote desktop software either. I do, and mine crashes, sometimes > running those piece of software, sometimes all on its own. How much FREE main memory does your crashing phone still have? Not storage memory, the RAM it uses to do things like run apps, etc. A 16GB iPhone DOESN'T have 16GB of RAM, far from it. I had crashing problems in the Nokia N800 until I figured out Maemo Mapper was storing a thousand map tiles in operational memory. I had to go through all the Map repositories I have loaded onto it and tell all of them to use slower SDHC memory to store the maps, not the main memory. No crashing since then, but I keep a close eye on where new apps store data files by default. On this webpage: http://oss.coresecurity.com/iphonedbg/debugger_doc.htm at Core Security, the writer wrote: " iPhone Crashes When an application crashes inside iPhone a .plist file is generated on directory /private/var/logs/CrashReporter. This is basically an XML file with the state of the register, thread and the exception type generated. If it is a kernel crash is written at /private/var/logs/CrashReporter/Panics." I suppose you'd need root access to view the XML file. I assume the Apple backdoor to nanny you can view it, maybe automatically. Their debugger looks very interesting if you're interested in tinkering around in the garage....(c; Using it is probably a felony in your massive contract with Apple. Look at all the processes Safari bloatware opens just for a basic web browser with no plugins....(gasp) Your wife and kids don't use much memory as they don't have near as many apps as Dad does loading it down. Dad's crashes. Their's doesn't. It may be simply running out of memory at the crash. > How much FREE main memory does your crashing phone still have? Not > storage memory, the RAM it uses to do things like run apps, etc. > > A 16GB iPhone DOESN'T have 16GB of RAM, far from it. Larr is right ...16 gig is total storage ....or about 14 gig free after the OS takes it's chunk for internal apps, etc. For RAM, every search is different, but appears to be around the 128 meg total, with around 80-90 meg left ie. http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/08/22/speculating-on-the-iphone-m emory-footprint-and-cpu-speed In message news:gak3i0$ljb$1@aioe.org, "Arrow" <arrow201@hotmail.com> done wrote: > Larr is right ...16 gig is total storage ....or about 14 gig free > after the OS takes > it's chunk for internal apps, etc. "Its," not "it's." > For RAM, every search is different, but appears to be around the 128 meg > total, > with around 80-90 meg left You don't really believe that an Apple OS with all this graphics and glitz fits in 38MB, do you? That would be simply amazing. Flash RAM is too slow even for these little processors to use, directly. I think I read that 128MB is correct, and a very good reason why you only run one app at a time. Device memory in the N800 is only 249.5 MB. My memory manager app shows 169.8MB in use at bootup with 79.7MB available to run Linux apps, which are very small in comparison to Mac or Win apps. I reserve 128MB of the internal SDHC card for "virtual memory", sort of like Windows does on a C: hard drive. If it ever uses it, the thing crawls like lumbering bus. My system at bootup with only the desktop apps running in background shows: PID Process Name Size (MB) 1033 hildon-desktop 17 1274 browserd 11 985 hildon-input-method 10 758 Xomap 7 1177 systemui 5 1149 osso-connectivity-ui-conndigs 5 1256 metalayer-crawler 4 1246 mediaplayer-engine 4 796 matchbox-window-manager 4 1153 osso-media-server 2 792 sapwood-server 2 1272 browserd 2 1290 gnome-vfs-daemon 2 1201 alarmd 2 810 dsp_dld 2 937 ke-recv 2 696 hald 2 863 multimediad 1 1130 icd2 1 752 mce 1 955 maemo-launcher 1 754 gconfd-2 1 988 clipboard-manager 1 1219 hulda 1 646 dbus-daemon 1 1126 wlancond 1 1181 obexsrv 1 1111 hcid 1 1119 btcond 1 788 dbus-daemon 1 1237 pan-daemon 1 1114 bluetoothd-service-audio 1 735 event0 1008kb 1115 bluetooth-service-input 976kb 697 hald-runner 964kb 727 hald-addon-bme 956kb 739 hald-addon-cpufreq 944kb 731 hald-addon-omap-gplo 924kb 732 hald-addon-omap-gpio 924kb 733 hald-addon-omap-gpio 924kb 734 hald-addon-omap-gpio 924kb 736 hald-addon-mmc 920kb 737 hald-addon-mmc 920kb 929 mode 880kb 1095 dnsmasq 740kb 876 esd 728kb 1220 hulda 628kb 1 init 532kb 429 udevd 516kb 338 dsme 488kb 984 hildon-input-method 396kb 1032 hildon-desktop 396kb 1148 osso-connectivity-ui-conndigs 396kb 346 bme_RX-34 364kb 785 temp-reaper 268kb 348 kicker 224kb I know about 5 of them...(c; There's a little load meter app I have running that lets me look at the process list and watch or kill any of them (for the adventurous). The "meter" shows it doing things just sitting there with no external wifi or sellphone internet connections. This is the simpleton Nokia tablet. Imagine all the processes running on something as advanced as iPhone sucking up battery power and RAM! > > For RAM, every search is different, but appears to be around the 128 meg > > total, > > with around 80-90 meg left > > You don't really believe that an Apple OS with all this graphics and glitz > fits in 38MB, do you? That would be simply amazing. Sure it does- it's a phone OS, not a desktop. Keep in mind we used to run Windows 95, a fully multitasking OS on PCs with 64MB or less of RAM! > Flash RAM is too slow even for these little processors to use, directly. > > I think I read that 128MB is correct, and a very good reason why you only > run one app at a time. My 64MB HTC Wizard WM5 device used about 35MB at boot for the OS, and had 30 le t for apps, and could run several at a time- most phone apps are relatively small, using 1MB or less a piece. Media players and browsers are an exception, taking several MB each or more. > Device memory in the N800 is only 249.5 MB. That's pretty impressive for such a small portable. RAM eats power, which is why most smartphones keep it between 32-128MB. > My memory manager app shows > 169.8MB in use at bootup with 79.7MB available to run Linux apps, which are > very small in comparison to Mac or Win apps. My Tilt, running WinMo 6 has 128MB with about 80MB available at boot. <Snip long list of running processes> > I know about 5 of them...(c; There's a little load meter app I have > running that lets me look at the process list and watch or kill any of them > (for the adventurous). The "meter" shows it doing things just sitting > there with no external wifi or sellphone internet connections. That's a lot of stuff running on a fairly simple device. > This is the simpleton Nokia tablet. Imagine all the processes running on > something as advanced as iPhone sucking up battery power and RAM! I think the difference is that your tablet is essentially running a small desktop Linux OS ported for ARM processors, whereas the WinMo and iPhone devices have smartphone OS' built ground up to have a small(ish) footprint. >> You don't really believe that an Apple OS with all this graphics and >> glitz fits in 38MB, do you? That would be simply amazing. > > Sure it does- it's a phone OS, not a desktop. Keep in mind we used to run > Windows 95, a fully multitasking OS on PCs with 64MB or less of RAM! Some of us used to run fully multitasking OSes on 8MHz processors with 2MB or less of RAM, which did as much or more than the iPhone or any other pocket device. I honestly don't know what's happened to the software industry such that this is now apparently impossible. I used to think 8kB was a lot for a simple app. Come to mention it, I used to think 1kB was a lot for a simple graphical multitasking app. > Some of us used to run fully multitasking OSes on 8MHz processors with > 2MB or less of RAM Geez you make me feel old.....(c; We used to run a program called DoubleDOS on 4.77 Mhz IBM-PCs with 256K of RAM under DOS 3.3. It was "multitasking" because it could run TWO programs at once!....albeit a little slower...(c; The monitor was color, too! It was GREEN! I still have my receipt for the Tulin 33MB, full height, 4-platter fixed disk drive. It was $US2,450 before taxes....the biggest drive I could buy! I've been filling hard drives ever since....(c; Bill Gates was wrong. 64K of RAM wasn't enough. >> Some of us used to run fully multitasking OSes on 8MHz processors with >> 2MB or less of RAM [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > RAM under DOS 3.3. It was "multitasking" because it could run TWO programs > at once!....albeit a little slower...(c; Apologies, I should've made it clear I meant proper modern graphical WIMP multitasking, not something text-mode like DESQview or anything like that. >>> Some of us used to run fully multitasking OSes on 8MHz processors >>> with 2MB or less of RAM [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > WIMP multitasking, not something text-mode like DESQview or anything > like that. Wow, DESQview! That goes back a ways, too!.... > I used to think 8kB was a lot for a simple app. Agreed. Back in the 90's I used to joke that every Windows programmer should be locked in a room with a 1kB RAM Sinclair computer and not let out until he or she coded a useful app. (I'd use the joke today, but no one under 40 would know what a Sinclair is!) ;) > Come to mention it, I used to think 1kB was a lot for a simple > graphical multitasking app. I'll bite- what graphical app could you fit in 1k? The screen display information itself (320x240) would take up more than 1kB, wouldn't it? >> Come to mention it, I used to think 1kB was a lot for a simple >> graphical multitasking app. > > I'll bite- what graphical app could you fit in 1k? The screen display > information itself (320x240) would take up more than 1kB, wouldn't it? If the app had a window 320x240 I suppose, but then the screen buffer is a fixed overhead that doesn't depend on if or how many apps are running (or at least, it can be). A simple clock app could easily fit in 1kB, for example. > A simple clock app could easily fit in 1kB, for example. A lot of Maemo apps are less than 1KB. Of course, I don't think that takes in the associated Linux libraries it shares with other 1K apps....(c; > 1032 hildon-desktop 396kb > 1148 osso-connectivity-ui-conndigs 396kb > 346 bme_RX-34 364kb > 785 temp-reaper 268kb > 348 kicker 224kb > I know about 5 of them...(c; There's a little load meter app I have > running that lets me look at the process list and watch or kill any of them > (for the adventurous). The "meter" shows it doing things just sitting > there with no external wifi or sellphone internet connections. Process Meter, Task Manager, TOP, PS .... Nah Larry ... Apple has got rid of those. Simply not necessary!!! :-) SignatureAdrian C |
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