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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / ATT Wireless / July 2009Voice Commands and Bluetooth on iPhone
It's coming. Apple on Tuesday began testing the first maintenance update to its new iPhone 3.0 software, which patches a handful of bugs but also introduces new features tied to video, Voice Control, and the handsets vibration mode. <snip> Another noteworthy enhancement is the ability to issue commands to the iPhone's new Voice Control feature over Bluetooth headsets. Spoken commands when running iPhone Software 3.0 aren't picked up by Bluetooth headsets, and are instead channeled through an iPhone's built-in microphone even when a headset is connected.  SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >It's coming. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >headsets, and are instead channeled through an iPhone's built-in >microphone even when a headset is connected. In other words, given how fast the update has appeared, 3.0 was rushed to market before it was really ready, probably to make the arbitrary anniversary date. SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do fans keep making excuses for it? > >Another noteworthy enhancement is the ability to issue commands to > >the iPhone's new Voice Control feature over Bluetooth headsets. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > rushed to market before it was really ready, probably to make the > arbitrary anniversary date. Wrong. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> >Another noteworthy enhancement is the ability to issue commands to >> >the iPhone's new Voice Control feature over Bluetooth headsets. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Wrong. You've clearly drunk too much Apple Kool-Aid. ;) SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? > >> In other words, given how fast the update has appeared, 3.0 was > >> rushed to market before it was really ready, probably to make the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You've clearly drunk too much Apple Kool-Aid. ;) And you clearly hate Apple so much that you've lost all rationality about the company, its products, and people who own or use its products. Either that or you're a troll. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> >> In other words, given how fast the update has appeared, 3.0 was >> >> rushed to market before it was really ready, probably to make the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > And you clearly hate Apple so much that you've lost all rationality > about the company, its products, and people who own or use its products. Hardly... It is called "freedom of speech", Mitch. > Either that or you're a troll. John Navas is not a troll, and he is not afraid of having his post archived, Mitch. > >> >> In other words, given how fast the update has appeared, 3.0 was > >> >> rushed to market before it was really ready, probably to make [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Hardly... It is called "freedom of speech", Mitch. That doesn't make any sense, but you rarely do, bitch. > > Either that or you're a troll. > > John Navas is not a troll, He certainly acts like one. > and he is not afraid of having his post archived, Mitch. And you're afraid of being associated with your comments, bitch. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> >> >> In other words, given how fast the update has appeared, 3.0 was >> >> >> rushed to market before it was really ready, probably to make [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > That doesn't make any sense, but you rarely do, bitch. lol Now work on your introductions, Mitch, you are missing a few. Are you inserting introductions by hand? Or is it that your newsreader is messed up? On 7/2/09 12:43 AM, in article michelle-652B49.22434201072009@news.eternal-september.org, "Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: >>>> In other words, given how fast the update has appeared, 3.0 was >>>> rushed to market before it was really ready, probably to make the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Either that or you're a troll. He is too stupid and arrogant to be anything else. Bingo! On 7/1/09 8:57 PM, in article tv4o45phb19qk0jbqtj2q3bfi2dhd2i1jg@4ax.com, >>>> Another noteworthy enhancement is the ability to issue commands to >>>> the iPhone's new Voice Control feature over Bluetooth headsets. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > You've clearly drunk too much Apple Kool-Aid. ;) You clearly are a the Three Knot Sailor drinking the rum. Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in news:michelle- 876928.18550001072009@news.eternal-september.org: >> >Another noteworthy enhancement is the ability to issue commands to >> >the iPhone's new Voice Control feature over Bluetooth headsets. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Wrong. Hey Michelle, we're still waiting to find out exactly what Verizon manufactures. >Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in news:michelle- >876928.18550001072009@news.eternal-september.org: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Hey Michelle, we're still waiting to find out exactly what Verizon >manufactures. She's still busy CYA on how well voice command works over Bluetooth. SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? >> >Another noteworthy enhancement is the ability to issue commands to >> >the iPhone's new Voice Control feature over Bluetooth headsets. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Wrong. How so? There seem to be a number of uncharacteristicly Apple rough edges, this being a perfect example. Apple's software is normally fairly tied down and limited, but the features it does support, it supports reasonably well, this seemed to be one of a few rather obvious exceptions to the rule. Personally, I'm really hoping they add "Undo" to the cut/copy/paste/select/etc popup. > >> In other words, given how fast the update has appeared, 3.0 was > >> rushed to market before it was really ready, probably to make the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > How so? There seem to be a number of uncharacteristicly Apple rough > edges, this being a perfect example. Um, how about, "We'll put these in for 3.0, and those in for 3.1", and then actually do it? Apple has delayed the introduction of software before, when it didn't meet their standards by the previously announced release period. There's nothing to indicate that 3.0 was "rushed". > Personally, I'm really hoping they add "Undo" to the > cut/copy/paste/select/etc popup. They've implemented undo via shake. Putting it into the popup is bad U/I. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > Personally, I'm really hoping they add "Undo" to the > > cut/copy/paste/select/etc popup. > > They've implemented undo via shake. Putting it into the popup is bad > U/I. shake is not exactly good ui either. it's much easier to tap a button or tap and hold, than pick up the device and shake it. >> > Personally, I'm really hoping they add "Undo" to the >> > cut/copy/paste/select/etc popup. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >shake is not exactly good ui either. it's much easier to tap a button >or tap and hold, than pick up the device and shake it. Not to an iFan Apple Apologist. ;) SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? > Not to an iFan Apple Apologist. ;) You are to Apple like Fred Phelps is to gays or Michael Savage is to liberals: totally irrational and devoid of facts. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> Not to an iFan Apple Apologist. ;) > >You are to Apple like Fred Phelps is to gays or Michael Savage is to >liberals: totally irrational and devoid of facts. How lame! Sill waiting for products manufactured by Verizon, and for more about how voice control works over Bluetooth. ;) SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? On 7/2/09 1:35 PM, in article lbvp45tvfka14gnlnb96kv97srdmedk97t@4ax.com, >>> Not to an iFan Apple Apologist. ;) >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Sill waiting for products manufactured by Verizon, > and for more about how voice control works over Bluetooth. ;) Hold your breath, PLEASE! > On 7/2/09 1:35 PM, in article lbvp45tvfka14gnlnb96kv97srdmedk97t 4ax.com, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Hold your breath, PLEASE! But seriously, dude, stop flailing silly insults and grow up. > Path: news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!backlog2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail > NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:07:43 -0500 [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > X-Postfilter: 1.3.39 > Bytes: 2427 > >> Not to an iFan Apple Apologist. ;) > > > >You are to Apple like Fred Phelps is to gays or Michael Savage is to > >liberals: totally irrational and devoid of facts. > > How lame! You misspelled "true". SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign On 7/2/09 1:25 PM, in article michelle-DB9215.11254902072009@news.eternal-september.org, "Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: >> Not to an iFan Apple Apologist. ;) > > You are to Apple like Fred Phelps is to gays or Michael Savage is to > liberals: totally irrational and devoid of facts. Don't insult Savage. He's most likely the only sane one on The Peninsula, which is also NavASS territory, as I recall... On 7/2/09 12:22 PM, in article o6rp45di2q4713sjibf9rq748g5dg44ogg@4ax.com, >>>> Personally, I'm really hoping they add "Undo" to the >>>> cut/copy/paste/select/etc popup. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Not to an iFan Apple Apologist. ;) F.O.A.D., moron! You couldn't design something to pour piss out of a boot - with the directions written on the heel... > > > Personally, I'm really hoping they add "Undo" to the > > > cut/copy/paste/select/etc popup. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > shake is not exactly good ui either. it's much easier to tap a > button or tap and hold, than pick up the device and shake it. It's already picked up and in my hand. Problem with adding "undo" to that popup is that the insertion point for the popup may not be where the undo action takes place, and that can easily confuse the user. Using that popup to undo would require the user to double-tap a word (or tap and hold, if in a web site), then tap the Undo button. Shaking might not be ideal, but it's the best way given the constraints of the medium. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > Shaking might not be ideal, but it's the best way given the constraints > of the medium. it's definitely not ideal and i can think of a few alternatives that would be much better, such as a multi-finger swipe. > > Shaking might not be ideal, but it's the best way given the > > constraints of the medium. > > it's definitely not ideal and i can think of a few alternatives that > would be much better, such as a multi-finger swipe. The problem with doing anything on the touchscreen to undo is a dissonance of location. The only problem I see with shaking is that of sensitivity; how hard must it be shaken? If it's too sensitive, it could accidentally bring up the Undo confirmation, and if it's not sensitive enough, you would have to shake too hard. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > > Shaking might not be ideal, but it's the best way given the > > > constraints of the medium. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The problem with doing anything on the touchscreen to undo is a > dissonance of location. same for shake. > The only problem I see with shaking is that of > sensitivity; how hard must it be shaken? If it's too sensitive, it > could accidentally bring up the Undo confirmation, and if it's not > sensitive enough, you would have to shake too hard. that's definitely an issue. > > The problem with doing anything on the touchscreen to undo is a > > dissonance of location. > > same for shake. I don't see that. There's no touch location issue there. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign On 7/2/09 12:09 PM, in article 020720091309462115%nospam@nospam.invalid, >>> Personally, I'm really hoping they add "Undo" to the >>> cut/copy/paste/select/etc popup. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > shake is not exactly good ui either. it's much easier to tap a button > or tap and hold, than pick up the device and shake it. Why do you say that? There are no moving parts and it has sensors built in JUST for that purpose. > >> They've implemented undo via shake. Putting it into the popup is bad > >> U/I. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Why do you say that? There are no moving parts and it has sensors built in > JUST for that purpose. true, and shake is suitable for a number of things, but undo is not among them. if you're typing, it's easier to just have a gesture rather than shake the device. plus, shaking looks stupid, especially if you need to undo a lot. :) > true, and shake is suitable for a number of things, but undo is not > among them. if you're typing, it's easier to just have a gesture > rather than shake the device. plus, shaking looks stupid, especially > if you need to undo a lot. :) I wrote that undo works only for cut and paste; I was wrong. It works also for typing; I didn't shake hard enough after typing when I was testing it. Shake also works for redo. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> true, and shake is suitable for a number of things, but undo is not >> among them. if you're typing, it's easier to just have a gesture [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >also for typing; I didn't shake hard enough after typing when I was >testing it. Shake also works for redo. In other words, it sucks as an interface paradigm, as you've now effectively conceded. SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? >>> true, and shake is suitable for a number of things, but undo is not >>> among them. if you're typing, it's easier to just have a gesture [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > In other words, it sucks as an interface paradigm, as you've now > effectively conceded. Yeah, that is amusing. I am skeptical of the idea of shaking the device as an input method. It seems a bit clumsy, and what if the $600 cellphone is dropped while being shaked. Reminds me of Microsoft's Windows Explorer folder bar moving when you drag a file from the right to the left side, with the pointer close to the bottom of the folder list... the folder list starts scrolling upwards, so you can get to the correct folder you are aiming at. On rare occasion, it has been useful, but more often it is just annoying. > If the iPhone is really so impressive, > why do iFans keep making excuses for it? You will never catch me making excuses for it. So far, it is much more than I expected. It is a touch screen driven handheld computer with Internet access. The touch screen is a fine interface for certain applications like scrolling a map. So far, the individual functions (pinching, tap, tap and hold, double tap, etc, are well-recognized and very useful. The screen is very big and its resolution is very high, and it is bright. The keyboard typing area is big, especially with apps that take advantage of rotating the device. The telephone keypad is huge. The touch screen allowing both input and output makes very efficient use of the real estate. That is my impression, subject to change with notice. I do desktop PC stuff backwards and forwards, but I have no experience with devices similar to the iPhone. Is there a same size functional equivalent? > >I wrote that undo works only for cut and paste; I was wrong. It > >works also for typing; I didn't shake hard enough after typing when > >I was testing it. Shake also works for redo. > > In other words, it sucks as an interface paradigm, as you've now > effectively conceded. Wrong again, Mr. Limbaugh. Although shake isn't perfect, it's better than the available alternatives. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > true, and shake is suitable for a number of things, but undo is not > > among them. if you're typing, it's easier to just have a gesture [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > also for typing; I didn't shake hard enough after typing when I was > testing it. Shake also works for redo. exactly why shake sucks. it's a stupid way to do it. > > I wrote that undo works only for cut and paste; I was wrong. It > > works also for typing; I didn't shake hard enough after typing when > > I was testing it. Shake also works for redo. > > exactly why shake sucks. it's a stupid way to do it. It's better than any of the available alternatives, even with its faults. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > > I wrote that undo works only for cut and paste; I was wrong. It > > > works also for typing; I didn't shake hard enough after typing when [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It's better than any of the available alternatives, even with its faults. we haven't seen any of the alternatives implemented, or even discussed, so there's nothing with which to compare. > > > > I wrote that undo works only for cut and paste; I was wrong. > > > > It works also for typing; I didn't shake hard enough after [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > we haven't seen any of the alternatives implemented, or even > discussed, My guess is that they weren't implemented because they never got out of testing, or maybe not even past analysis. And we've discussed them here. > so there's nothing with which to compare. Not in practice, but definitely in theory. I strongly doubt that Apple decided out of the blue to do it with shaking, with no other considerations aforethought. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > > > exactly why shake sucks. it's a stupid way to do it. > > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I strongly doubt that Apple decided out of the blue to do it with > shaking, with no other considerations aforethought. I realize Apple has earned their deserved reputation for design, but did it ever occur to you that perhaps not every feature is rigorously tested and submitted to test panels and focus groups, but might just have seemed like a good idea at the time? Shake undo/redo seems like a mildly humorous idea inspired by the Etch-a- Sketch we all owned as children, and was rubber-stamped by anyone it made nostalgically smile. It probably took three meetings to convince everyone not to include the "shoosh-shoosh" sound Etch-a-Sketches make when shaken. I suspect "shake" also attempts to reinforce the "funnest iPod ever" concept in a subtle way- taking a function that business phone users gave Apple a lot of grief for omitting and putting a cheeky, "unprofessional" spin on it. I agree with nospam it should be menu-driven, but it's not like shake is a crime-against-nature affront to UI design or anything. It works, people will get used it, and that'll be it. My contextual-menu preference is probably my long-time Windows use bias talking, but every edit function menu I've ever used has included undo with cut, copy, and paste. Why all of a sudden is it "confusing" to have undo in the "wrong location" when that hasn't been confusing to three generations of computer users? I'd argue "shake" is more confusing because it isn't consistant. How long after I paste something can I shake to undo it? Why can't shaking undo a video or email deletion? Pinning undo to cut/pase contextual menus reinforces that the undo function "belongs" to the cut/copy/paste feature. > I agree with nospam it should be menu-driven, but it's not like shake is a > crime-against-nature affront to UI design or anything. It works, people > will get used it, and that'll be it. i didn't say menu driven, i said that i can think of some ways other than shake. my personal pick is a multi-finger swipe but i haven't really thought about how it might affect other apps. > > I agree with nospam it should be menu-driven, but it's not like shake is a > > crime-against-nature affront to UI design or anything. It works, people [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > than shake. my personal pick is a multi-finger swipe but i haven't > really thought about how it might affect other apps. My apologies- I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. My original (and much too wordy) draft just said that like you, I didn't like shake as a UI element. I suggested "menu driven" (and, like Michelle correctly called me out on, I really meant "dialog driven!") later on in the rambling and then edited the post down to be a little tighter and less repetitive before sending, and unfortunately juxtaposed two partially unrelated thoughts in the process. Oh well, such is Usenet... My apologies again! > Oh well, such is Usenet... My apologies again! This is usenet; therefore, the three of us shouldn't be able to have such a thought-out non-acrimonious disagreement. It's almost unheard of. <g> -- Michelle SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> I agree with nospam it should be menu-driven, but it's not like shake is a >> crime-against-nature affront to UI design or anything. It works, people [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >than shake. my personal pick is a multi-finger swipe but i haven't >really thought about how it might affect other apps. Two finger swipe is already taken for scrolling within a limited size input form on a larger website. I'm not sure three finger scrolling or touches is any better, that's almost beyond what most users can grasp, especially when you're targeting a segment of the market that can barely handle second mouse button. >>> I agree with nospam it should be menu-driven, but it's not like shake is a >>> crime-against-nature affront to UI design or anything. It works, people [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > targeting a segment of the market that can barely handle second mouse > button. Three-fingered scrolling (and three-fingered double-tap) are used for zoom, if enabled in Settings > General > Accessibility. > I realize Apple has earned their deserved reputation for design, but > did it ever occur to you that perhaps not every feature is rigorously > tested and submitted to test panels and focus groups, but might just > have seemed like a good idea at the time? Having worked in the software industry, with a specific focus on user interface, for a dozen years, I'm quite familiar with how the process works. Even though I retired 8 1/2 years ago, I doubt that it has changed much. > I agree with nospam it should be menu-driven, Thing is that nothing in the iPhone interface is menu driven; there are no menus. If I understand Nospam correctly, he wants Undo to be added to the Cut/Copy/Paste/Select dialogs. The problems with that, as I see it, are 1. If you double tap (or tap and hold) somewhere other than where you cut, pasted, or typed, and one of the options in the dialog is "Undo", that will be confusing. "I typed over there, now I'm over here; there's nothing to undo here." 2. Although "Undo" belongs with Cut, Copy, and Paste in a menu, it does not belong with them in a dialog; putting it in a dialog can be confusing to the user. > My contextual-menu preference is probably my long-time Windows use > bias talking, but every edit function menu I've ever used has > included undo with cut, copy, and paste. Why all of a sudden is it > "confusing" to have undo in the "wrong location" when that hasn't > been confusing to three generations of computer users? Hmmm, I've never seen "Undo" in a contextual menu on the Macintosh; it's only in the Edit menu in the menu bar. > I'd argue "shake" is more confusing because it isn't consistant. How > long after I paste something can I shake to undo it? Until after you do something else that can be undone, or until another action makes an "undo" invalid (e.g., sending a message into which you've pasted something). > Why can't shaking undo a video or email deletion? Because it works only within a document, not on operations of entire documents themselves. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > I agree with nospam it should be menu-driven, > > Thing is that nothing in the iPhone interface is menu driven; there are > no menus. If I understand Nospam correctly, he wants Undo to be added > to the Cut/Copy/Paste/Select dialogs. my idea is a multi-finger swipe. on recent mac laptops, a three finger swipe steps back in a browser which is essentially undoing the last link clicked so it makes a lot of sense to use the same gesture on the iphone for undo. i did mention a touch-hold, similar to what mobile safari now does for its popup menu, but i'm not sure how well that would work with undo. i really dislike shake. > > Thing is that nothing in the iPhone interface is menu driven; there > > are no menus. If I understand Nospam correctly, he wants Undo to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > last link clicked so it makes a lot of sense to use the same gesture > on the iphone for undo. Right now, the iPhone (and Ipod touch) support only one- and two-finger gestures. Maybe Apple instituted shake to undo because the devices don't support three-finger gestures. > i did mention a touch-hold, similar to what mobile safari now does > for its popup menu, but i'm not sure how well that would work with > undo. That's essentially the same as double-tapping to bring it up (BTW, it's a popup dialog, not menu.) That touch-hold also works in mail, notes, etc. > i really dislike shake. So I gather. Frankly, I'm not that excited about it myself; I just happen to believe that it's the best of all available alternatives that I can think of. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > my idea is a multi-finger swipe. on recent mac laptops, a three > > finger swipe steps back in a browser which is essentially undoing the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > gestures. Maybe Apple instituted shake to undo because the devices > don't support three-finger gestures. actually it supports up to five touches although few apps do more than one or two fingers. some of the music apps use multiple fingers for chords and there was even a word game i tried where you had to spell a 5 letter word by touching the letters in order and holding each finger down. it was a royal pain in the a.s to play and i deleted it fairly soon. > > i did mention a touch-hold, similar to what mobile safari now does > > for its popup menu, but i'm not sure how well that would work with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a popup dialog, not menu.) That touch-hold also works in mail, notes, > etc. doesn't matter what it's called, it's more intuitive than a shake :) > > i really dislike shake. > > So I gather. Frankly, I'm not that excited about it myself; I just > happen to believe that it's the best of all available alternatives that > I can think of. it might be the best of the alternatives but i'm not entirely convinced since i haven't actually tried any of the alternatives. > > So I gather. Frankly, I'm not that excited about it myself; I just > > happen to believe that it's the best of all available alternatives > > that I can think of. > > it might be the best of the alternatives but i'm not entirely > convinced since i haven't actually tried any of the alternatives. That's because all the other alternatives get tried inside Apple (and maybe by some outsiders under NDA). SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > > So I gather. Frankly, I'm not that excited about it myself; I just > > > happen to believe that it's the best of all available alternatives [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That's because all the other alternatives get tried inside Apple (and > maybe by some outsiders under NDA). absolutely. that's why the round mouse made it out the door. it really is better! or the 3rd gen ipod with 4 touch sensitive buttons in a row that didn't work too well with gloves, soon replaced with the click-wheel. or the delightfully attractive flower power imac that is best forgotten. or the mighty mouse with a useless track-pea that gets dirty if you look at it wrong. all well tested by users. not. >> > Thing is that nothing in the iPhone interface is menu driven; there >> > are no menus. If I understand Nospam correctly, he wants Undo to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >gestures. Maybe Apple instituted shake to undo because the devices >don't support three-finger gestures. Another swing and another miss, the iPhone not only supports three-finger gestures, they're used by the OS itself. http://www.apple.com/iphone/how-to/index.html#accessibility.using-voiceover > Another swing and another miss, the iPhone not only supports > three-finger gestures, they're used by the OS itself. > > http://www.apple.com/iphone/how-to/index.html#accessibility.using-voic > eover Only on the 3Gs. As I said, the iPod touch doesn't support it, nor do the original iPhone and the 3G. Therefore, it can't be used for something so universal as Undo. Better get out of your glass house before you throw any more stones. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> Another swing and another miss, the iPhone not only supports >> three-finger gestures, they're used by the OS itself. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Better get out of your glass house before you throw any more stones. huh? I'm not the one that suggested using three finger touches for undo, I was just the one that pointed out you're wrong about iPhone and iPod Touches not supporting three finger touches. The whole range of Apple devices are capable of three finger touch, there are a couple apps that use it (Google Earth, I believe) Again, please fact check as you're continually wrong when responding to my posts. > >Better get out of your glass house before you throw any more stones. > > huh? I'm not the one that suggested using three finger touches for > undo, I was just the one that pointed out you're wrong about iPhone > and iPod Touches not supporting three finger touches. True, you didn't suggest it, but the suggestion was what instigated this filament of the thread. > The whole range of Apple devices are capable of three finger touch, > there are a couple apps that use it (Google Earth, I believe) The only Apple devices that are capable of three-finger touches are the iPhone 3Gs and certain MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Earlier models of the iPhone, the iPod touch, and the Mac desktops do not support three-finger touches. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > The whole range of Apple devices are capable of three finger touch, > > there are a couple apps that use it (Google Earth, I believe) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > iPhone, the iPod touch, and the Mac desktops do not support three-finger > touches. i don't know where you get that idea. all models of the iphone and ipod touch support up to 5 touches, although very few apps use more than 2 or 3 at a time. > > > The whole range of Apple devices are capable of three finger > > > touch, there are a couple apps that use it (Google Earth, I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > ipod touch support up to 5 touches, although very few apps use more > than 2 or 3 at a time. I get that idea because the only reference I could find for 3-finger touches referred only to the 3Gs. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > i don't know where you get that idea. all models of the iphone and > > ipod touch support up to 5 touches, although very few apps use more > > than 2 or 3 at a time. > > I get that idea because the only reference I could find for 3-finger > touches referred only to the 3Gs. apple didn't do anything with 3 finger touches until now, however, third party apps did. >> > > The whole range of Apple devices are capable of three finger >> > > touch, there are a couple apps that use it (Google Earth, I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I get that idea because the only reference I could find for 3-finger >touches referred only to the 3Gs. Well then you didn't do much research. Google Earth, for example, supports 3-finger touches on the 3G. > Well then you didn't do much research. Google Earth, for example, > supports 3-finger touches on the 3G. I just read the Google Earth user guide, and couldn't find any reference to three-finger operations. Could you please explain what three-finger operations are available in Google Earth for the 3G? SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > I realize Apple has earned their deserved reputation for design, but > > did it ever occur to you that perhaps not every feature is rigorously [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > no menus. If I understand Nospam correctly, he wants Undo to be added > to the Cut/Copy/Paste/Select dialogs. I am using "menu" generically- the dialog would qualify as a "menu." > The problems with that, as I see > it, are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that will be confusing. "I typed over there, now I'm over here; there's > nothing to undo here." Perhaps, but no less confusing thn shaking the entire device. > 2. Although "Undo" belongs with Cut, Copy, and Paste in a menu, it does > not belong with them in a dialog; putting it in a dialog can be > confusing to the user. Again, it's worked for a decade in Windows, where my biases lie from long- time use.> > > My contextual-menu preference is probably my long-time Windows use > > bias talking, but every edit function menu I've ever used has [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Hmmm, I've never seen "Undo" in a contextual menu on the Macintosh; it's > only in the Edit menu in the menu bar. So you ned to go to the edit menu to undo on a Mac? I wasn't aware. In that case, it'd be counter intuitive to Mac users, I suppose. > > I'd argue "shake" is more confusing because it isn't consistant. How > > long after I paste something can I shake to undo it? > > Until after you do something else that can be undone, or until another > action makes an "undo" invalid (e.g., sending a message into which > you've pasted something). I haven't upgraded my wif's iPhone to 3.0 yet- is there any dialog to confirm there was an undo or redo? Without one it sedms very confusing. > > Why can't shaking undo a video or email deletion? > > Because it works only within a document, not on operations of entire > documents themselves. I realize that- I was speaking rhetorically from an intuitive standpoint, where it would appear random: "shake undoes the last action, except for when it doesn't!" At least in a dialog you'd know by the availability (or unavailability) of the option if if undo/redo would work. > > Hmmm, I've never seen "Undo" in a contextual menu on the Macintosh; > > it's only in the Edit menu in the menu bar. > > So you ned to go to the edit menu to undo on a Mac? I wasn't aware. > In that case, it'd be counter intuitive to Mac users, I suppose. Or command-Z; I can't recall the last time I did an Undo through the menu instead of the keyboard shortcut. > > Until after you do something else that can be undone, or until > > another action makes an "undo" invalid (e.g., sending a message [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > confirm there was an undo or redo? Without one it sedms very > confusing. There's a dialog to confirm that you want to do it. Shake, and the dialog appears, you then tap the "undo <action>" button or the "Cancel" button. > > > Why can't shaking undo a video or email deletion? > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > by the availability (or unavailability) of the option if if undo/redo > would work. Of course, the same can be said of Command-Z (or Control-Z on Windows). But it's rather simple; shake undoes cut, paste, and typing; only three things. BTW, shaking also implements Redo. Undo does the last thing done, but after you do that, you can redo, or undo the thing previous to the last thing; I don't know how many steps back you can go, but I've done Undo three times, and was able to redo all three of them. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign Todd Allcock <elecconnec@aNOoSPAMl.com> wrote in news:rIr3m.7591$c82.1524 @newsfe08.iad: > Shake undo/redo seems like a mildly humorous idea inspired by the Etch-a- > Sketch we all owned as children, What's really humorous with this shake phone is when it overheats we can call it "Shake and Bake"!....(c;] Have you seen Apple's response in the news today? Vague and lame. "Shake and Bake", now available via iTunes in your App Store for FREE! I'm sure Targus is working hard to expand its cooling line to a new one that iPhone slides into with twin fans powered by a non-removable Li-Ion battery sealed up for iPhone users..... http://targus.com/us/accessories_cooling.asp Signature----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? > Have you seen Apple's response in the news today? Vague and lame. Yeah, anything you disagree with is lame. Where were you this morning, Larry? Were you shooting more than just your mouth off for a change? SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > we haven't seen any of the alternatives implemented, or even > > discussed, > > My guess is that they weren't implemented because they never got out of > testing, or maybe not even past analysis. or steve said make it so. > > so there's nothing with which to compare. > > Not in practice, but definitely in theory. right, and it's real world user testing that matters. > I strongly doubt that Apple decided out of the blue to do it with > shaking, with no other considerations aforethought. right, because steve jobs is very open to other people's ideas and never demands anything. :) >> > > I wrote that undo works only for cut and paste; I was wrong. It >> > > works also for typing; I didn't shake hard enough after typing when [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >we haven't seen any of the alternatives implemented, or even discussed, >so there's nothing with which to compare. One alternative would be to push-and-hold the Home button to pop up a menu that would offer some basic on-screen commands, quickly turning on or off airplane mode, wifi, location services, bluetooth, etc would be useful. Undo could be offered, along with a preview of the clipboard. You could add basic last track, play/pause and next track media buttons too. This would fit nicely with the existing speech system if it listened for a voice command. > One alternative would be to push-and-hold the Home button to pop up a > menu that would offer some basic on-screen commands, quickly turning on [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You could add basic last track, play/pause and next track media buttons > too. double-press the home button can display the ipod controls or a few other user selectable options. turning airplane mode on/off should be easier too. > double-press the home button can display the ipod controls or a few > other user selectable options. With the 3.0 software (on the 3G), the options are Home Search Phone favorites Camera iPod You can also have it override all of the above and display iPod controls if music is playing and you're in another application or the Springboard. > turning airplane mode on/off should be easier too. Why? How often do you need to turn it on or off? SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > turning airplane mode on/off should be easier too. > > Why? How often do you need to turn it on or off? often. > > > turning airplane mode on/off should be easier too. > > > > Why? How often do you need to turn it on or off? > > often. Oh. I access it maybe twice (once to turn it on and once to turn it off) a year while flying and a few more times a year when going to a clinic at the local VA hospital. (they don't allow cell phones to be turned on within the building.) It takes me three taps to go from the Springboard to turn it on or off and return to the Springboard. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > > > turning airplane mode on/off should be easier too. > > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > clinic at the local VA hospital. (they don't allow cell phones to be > turned on within the building.) i fly a lot, with 8 flight segments in just this past month alone for 16 instances of accessing airplane mode. i also need to pick various wifi networks. i now keep the settings app in the dock because i use it so much. what's funny about the cell phone ban in hospitals is that i regularly see doctors and nurses as well as patients in their rooms using cell phones. so much for the ban. >> One alternative would be to push-and-hold the Home button to pop up a >> menu that would offer some basic on-screen commands, quickly turning on [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >other user selectable options. turning airplane mode on/off should be >easier too. Yes, but my suggestion was quite different -- I'd be fine with stealing the double-tap button for my suggestion, although I do rather like it pointing to phone favorites. > You could add basic last track, play/pause and next track media buttons > too. They could add some handy buttons around the edge, but that would cost you- know-who some money...volume controls, fast forward/back, next/last song, copy/paste/undo, etc. too handy...never covers up the screen. Stupid one-button devices suck. Signature----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? > I didn't shake hard enough And this is the reason why it's an un-intuitive interface, you have no clue when it might be available, or whether it's understood your request. Add to that the fact the a number of apps already use shake for something else and it creates a nicely confusing interface. > Add to that the fact the a number of apps already use shake for > something else and it creates a nicely confusing interface. Those apps don't have text input or any need for copy/cut/paste. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> Add to that the fact the a number of apps already use shake for >> something else and it creates a nicely confusing interface. > >Those apps don't have text input or any need for copy/cut/paste. They don't? My calendar/task software has a "shake on sync" option, and is definitely text input driven. > >> Add to that the fact the a number of apps already use shake for > >> something else and it creates a nicely confusing interface. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > They don't? My calendar/task software has a "shake on sync" option, > and is definitely text input driven. Which software is that? SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> >> Add to that the fact the a number of apps already use shake for >> >> something else and it creates a nicely confusing interface. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Which software is that? Pocket Informant. BeeJive (multi-protocol IM client) also uses shake to switch IM windows, and I, for one, find copy/paste very useful in a text driven IM app. > I, for one, find copy/paste very useful in a text driven IM app. I can see that. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> >> In other words, given how fast the update has appeared, 3.0 was >> >> rushed to market before it was really ready, probably to make the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >They've implemented undo via shake. Putting it into the popup is bad >U/I. Shake is a horrible UI. Aside from being unintuitive, it also has a habit of tripping when you don't want it (jogging across the street with the phone in your hand, for example) > Shake is a horrible UI. yes, it is. > Aside from being unintuitive, it also has a > habit of tripping when you don't want it (jogging across the street with > the phone in your hand, for example) how many people are pasting text while at the same time jogging across the street? > <DeathToSpam@crazyhat.net> wrote: >> Shake is a horrible UI. > > yes, it is. > >> Aside from being unintuitive, Maybe they were thinking of an etch-a-sketch. Undo is in a slightly different category than copy, cut, and paste. At least here, undo is most useful for correcting mistakes when I do not know precisely what I did. In Windows Internet Explorer or whatever file manager, that is when undo is potentially critical. Not sure what different interface mechanism I would use. Something I am wondering about, and will look for shortly, is whether macro recorders are available for the iPhone. Voice activated scripting would be the ultimate, like it is on a PC. SignatureGoogle is the spammer's gateway to USENET... Google has destroyed access to the USENET archive... ...down with Google > Undo is in a slightly different category than copy, cut, and paste. > At least here, undo is most useful for correcting mistakes when I do > not know precisely what I did. In Windows Internet Explorer or > whatever file manager, that is when undo is potentially critical. Undo on the iPhone works only with cut and paste. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> Undo is in a slightly different category than copy, cut, and paste. >> At least here, undo is most useful for correcting mistakes when I do >> not know precisely what I did. In Windows Internet Explorer or >> whatever file manager, that is when undo is potentially critical. > > Undo on the iPhone works only with cut and paste. Yeah, and... SignatureGoogle is the spammer's gateway to USENET... Google has destroyed access to the USENET archive... ...down with Google >> Shake is a horrible UI. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >how many people are pasting text while at the same time jogging across >the street? I'm not usually pasting, but other editing can be undone too. In my city it's not at all uncommon to see someone texting while waiting to cross the street, or hopping on a bus or whatever else. > >> Aside from being unintuitive, it also has a > >> habit of tripping when you don't want it (jogging across the street with [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > city it's not at all uncommon to see someone texting while waiting to > cross the street, or hopping on a bus or whatever else. sure, people text while waiting, but he said that jogging across the street would trigger undo. >> >> Aside from being unintuitive, it also has a >> >> habit of tripping when you don't want it (jogging across the street with [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >sure, people text while waiting, but he said that jogging across the >street would trigger undo. Right -- So follow this set of steps with me: 1) I'm standing on the corner of a street waiting to cross. 2) I'm writing a text/email/whatever. 3) I see my bus about a block away and know that if I wait for the light to change, I'll miss it. 4) I jog across the street, I get on the bus. 5) I toss my phone into my left other hand because our buses have a machine that takes your ticket and it's on my right. 6) I sit down, my recently typed text is gone. This wasn't an issue in 2.2.1, it has happened twice in 3.0 so far. > 1) I'm standing on the corner of a street waiting to cross. > 2) I'm writing a text/email/whatever. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > This wasn't an issue in 2.2.1, it has happened twice in 3.0 so far. did you try sleeping the phone while jogging? > Right -- So follow this set of steps with me: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > This wasn't an issue in 2.2.1, it has happened twice in 3.0 so far. Exactly when was it that you tapped the confirmation dialog to cause the text to vanish? Or did it happen only in your imagination? SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> Right -- So follow this set of steps with me: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Exactly when was it that you tapped the confirmation dialog to cause the >text to vanish? Or did it happen only in your imagination? Probably a conflict with Beejive's "shake to change IM windows" that ate the dialog, I do see a popup to undo in SMS... Not really sure, this was a couple BeeJive versions ago now. > >Exactly when was it that you tapped the confirmation dialog to cause > >the text to vanish? Or did it happen only in your imagination? > > Probably a conflict with Beejive's "shake to change IM windows" that > ate the dialog, I do see a popup to undo in SMS... Shows what happens when a third-party software vendor doesn't think through the ramifications of its user interface. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > >Exactly when was it that you tapped the confirmation dialog to cause > > >the text to vanish? Or did it happen only in your imagination? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Shows what happens when a third-party software vendor doesn't think > through the ramifications of its user interface. Didn't Beejive and a jillion other 3rd-party apps use shake first? And get approved? Arguably, this is what happens when a manufacture delays a basic feature two years after a device launch, implements it poorly, and doesn't care who they step on when they release it. If thought through ahead of time, the shake to undo feature should've been, at the very least, "reserved for future use," and third party apps warned against implementing it. > > > Probably a conflict with Beejive's "shake to change IM windows" that > > > ate the dialog, I do see a popup to undo in SMS... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Didn't Beejive and a jillion other 3rd-party apps use shake first? And > get approved? yep, beejive came out a long time ago, last fall if i recall correctly. they would have had no idea that apple would use shake for undo. > > > > Probably a conflict with Beejive's "shake to change IM windows" > > > > that ate the dialog, I do see a popup to undo in SMS... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > yep, beejive came out a long time ago, last fall if i recall correctly. > they would have had no idea that apple would use shake for undo. Except that Apple either SHOULD have had an idea and warned developers thusly, or else eshewed using a UI element already in such widespread use by third-party apps, particularly given the App Store's single-point distribution method- Apple's required approval process should obligate them NOT to retroactively "break" approved apps. > > > Didn't Beejive and a jillion other 3rd-party apps use shake first? > > > And get approved? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > distribution method- Apple's required approval process should obligate > them NOT to retroactively "break" approved apps. except that out of 50,000 apps, just about every user action or gesture has already been used, so apple would end up breaking *something* no matter what they do. maybe that even was a factor in the decision to pick shake, because it broke the fewest number of apps. >> > > Didn't Beejive and a jillion other 3rd-party apps use shake first? >> > > And get approved? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >matter what they do. maybe that even was a factor in the decision to >pick shake, because it broke the fewest number of apps. Apple could take over a function that they own, like holding the Home button for a couple seconds or double-tapping the home button, and use that function for future expansion. >> > >Exactly when was it that you tapped the confirmation dialog to cause >> > >the text to vanish? Or did it happen only in your imagination? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Didn't Beejive and a jillion other 3rd-party apps use shake first? Yes. >And get approved? And yes. >> Aside from being unintuitive, it also has a >> habit of tripping when you don't want it (jogging across the street with >> the phone in your hand, for example) > >how many people are pasting text while at the same time jogging across >the street? How about riding as a passenger in a car, bus, or train? How easy is it to accidentally trip then? (DART Rail does have some rather bumpy spots). It's not that unreasonable to try to get something done while riding as a passenger. On 7/12/09 2:21 AM, in article nKydnQgCvLabEsTXnZ2dnUVZ_gpi4p2d@posted.internetamerica, "Gordon Burditt" <gordon@hammy.burditt.org> wrote: >>> Aside from being unintuitive, it also has a >>> habit of tripping when you don't want it (jogging across the street with [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > bumpy spots). It's not that unreasonable to try to get something > done while riding as a passenger. Tell that to the Blue Line guy... <http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=1713299> On 7/2/09 1:59 PM, in article gktp45p5b7l0d115h4nia7dmk473qcjgvg@4ax.com, >>>>> In other words, given how fast the update has appeared, 3.0 was >>>>> rushed to market before it was really ready, probably to make the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > habit of tripping when you don't want it (jogging across the street with > the phone in your hand, for example) You obviously have never used the feature. Jogging motion isn't the same, sorry. >On 7/2/09 1:59 PM, in article gktp45p5b7l0d115h4nia7dmk473qcjgvg@4ax.com, > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >Jogging motion isn't the same, sorry. Well then maybe the iPhone is just forgetful, because I've had a bulk delete (cut) undone between the time when I made a change, and when I got to the other side of the street after a bolting in a break in traffic. I've also had shuffle turn on in the same situation, another "shake" interface. > Shake is a horrible UI. Aside from being unintuitive, Not at all. > it also has a habit of tripping when you don't want it (jogging > across the street with the phone in your hand, for example) Wow, so many people are going to jog across the street with their iPhones in their hands right after cutting or pasting. Actually, it's not sensitive enough to a shake for that to happen. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> Shake is a horrible UI. Aside from being unintuitive, > >Not at all. How is it intuitive? Do you know what intuitive means? >> it also has a habit of tripping when you don't want it (jogging >> across the street with the phone in your hand, for example) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Actually, it's not sensitive enough to a shake for that to happen. Exactly that is *does* happen. > >Another noteworthy enhancement is the ability to issue commands to the > >iPhone's new Voice Control feature over Bluetooth headsets. Spoken [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to market before it was really ready, probably to make the arbitrary > anniversary date. the update is still a beta released to developers, so it's not really that fast. apple releases periodic firmware updates with bug fixes and new features. the alternative would be to not update it. you slammed them for lousy bluetooth and here it is fixed and you slam them for fixing it. biased much? >> >Another noteworthy enhancement is the ability to issue commands to >> >the iPhone's new Voice Control feature over Bluetooth headsets. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > them for lousy bluetooth and here it is fixed and you slam them for > fixing it. biased much? I heard the 3GS buyers were all gonna get special iPhone popcorn poppers, too! Signature----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? > I heard the 3GS buyers were all gonna get special iPhone popcorn > poppers, too! Those little voices in your head tell you a lot of things. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign On 7/2/09 12:44 AM, in article michelle-D91DF0.22444001072009@news.eternal-september.org, "Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: >> I heard the 3GS buyers were all gonna get special iPhone popcorn >> poppers, too! > > Those little voices in your head tell you a lot of things. Those are voices of Waffle House waitresses of days past, he thinks. Shhhh! Don't confuse our Larry. He thinks he's "special". He IS!!! > Shhhh! Don't confuse our Larry. He thinks he's "special". He IS!!! And he has special needs? SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign On 7/2/09 10:09 AM, in article michelle-7E24A0.08094202072009@news.eternal-september.org, "Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: >> Shhhh! Don't confuse our Larry. He thinks he's "special". He IS!!! > > And he has special needs? That he does. There was a special poem written for him... When he walks in waterproof white, The children run after him so! Calling out, "He's gone out in his night- Gown, that crazy old Englishman, oh!" He weeps by the side of the ocean, He weeps on the top of the hill; He purchases pancakes and lotion, And chocolate shrimps from the mill. He reads, but he does not speak, Spanish, He cannot abide ginger beer; Ere the days of his pilgrimage vanish, How pleasant to know Mr. Lar! On 7/1/09 10:19 PM, in article Xns9C3BED434955noonehomecom@74.209.131.13, >>>> Another noteworthy enhancement is the ability to issue commands to >>>> the iPhone's new Voice Control feature over Bluetooth headsets. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I heard the 3GS buyers were all gonna get special iPhone popcorn poppers, > too! I heard they are running a popcorn special at the Waffle House, Lar! On 7/1/09 10:04 PM, in article 010720092304318567%nospam@nospam.invalid, >>> Another noteworthy enhancement is the ability to issue commands to the >>> iPhone's new Voice Control feature over Bluetooth headsets. Spoken [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > them for lousy bluetooth and here it is fixed and you slam them for > fixing it. biased much? NavASS is worse than a whimpering puppy pissing a puddle and standing in it. >> It's coming. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > to market before it was really ready, probably to make the arbitrary > anniversary date. The iphone unlike many other phones hasn't reached it's peak after the first software release, most phones have a few bug fixes but the product that comes out on day 1 is laregely the same as the end product years later. The iphone is a more flexible platform with lot's of developers vying for customers and potential to improve. Consequently there will be updates and tweaks for a few years to come, bringing added functionality and improvements. This doesn't strike me as odd for a device such as the iphone, multiple software updates are often being developed at the same time. Eventually updates for the 3g will stop as updates focus on the the 3gs and subsequent versions which are simply too much for the 3g hardware. Mike >>It's coming. >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > to market before it was really ready, probably to make the arbitrary > anniversary date. 3.0 represented the minimal feature set to support the latest iPhone hardware. A high priority was probably given to the ability to shoot videos, since that's an easy thing to feature in advertisements. The 3.1 update appears to focus on features applicable to older phones as well. Good question. I find it an extraordinarily-useful tool with a very easy learning curve. I'm sure I could have gotten used to most any phone, but one of the advantages to becoming one with the Borg is that the user base is so vast and relatively non-technical that it's pretty easy to find help for things without getting in over your head. The phone is not without significant issues. As a phone, well, it's not really all that great. If you don't want to have problems with dropped calls, you may need to dumb it down a bit by disabling 3G in some areas. And if you want to use it as a hand-held computer then you run into battery life issues. And the screen is often just a tad bit small for the eyesight of the user base that can afford it. Email is klunky due to the inability (without a significant workaround) of setting up folders for received emails (as if they borrowed a page from Picasa). But overall I find I use many of its features throughout a typical day, and that's about the best thing that can be said for any device. For *me*, it works. And I was predisposed to not liking it, having grown up on CP/M machines and developing a severe distaste for computers that anybody could just turn on and start doing something useful on. Real computers have to be boot-strapped in hex! (Heathkit H8). :-) --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com > 3.0 represented the minimal feature set to support the latest iPhone > hardware. A high priority was probably given to the ability to shoot > videos, since that's an easy thing to feature in advertisements. The > 3.1 update appears to focus on features applicable to older phones as > well. Actually, seven of the 15 new features work on the original iPhone, and ten of the 15 work on the iPhone 3G. The important parts of 3.1 (i.e., video improvement and voice commands over Bluetooth) are only for the 3Gs. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> 3.0 represented the minimal feature set to support the latest iPhone >> hardware. A high priority was probably given to the ability to shoot [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The important parts of 3.1 (i.e., video improvement and voice commands > over Bluetooth) are only for the 3Gs. I hope you're incorrect about voice commands over Bluetooth being only for the 3Gs. That's the one feature I would very much like to have on my 3G iPhone. I had no prior compelling reason to want to change to the newer phone before hearing that. Thanks- --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com >> The important parts of 3.1 (i.e., video improvement and voice commands >> over Bluetooth) are only for the 3Gs. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >3G iPhone. I had no prior compelling reason to want to change to the >newer phone before hearing that. Take anything Michelle posts with a grain of salt -- she has a record of posting uninformed guesses that turn out to be dead wrong, such as her recent claim (prior to 3.1) that voice commands work over Bluetooth. SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? > Take anything Michelle posts with a grain of salt -- she has a record > of posting uninformed guesses that turn out to be dead wrong, such as > her recent claim (prior to 3.1) that voice commands work over > Bluetooth. And disregard anything you have to say about Apple or any of its products. Not only are you wrong, but you never admit it when proven to be wrong. By the way, were you in Arlington, VA this morning? <http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0709/637285.html> ARLINGTON, Va. - Police in Arlington are on the scene of a shooting at an Apple Store on Clarendon Boulevard. It happened shortly after 10 a.m. at 2700 Clarendon Blvd. One person was shot and transported to a local hospital, police say. No other injuries have been confirmed at this time. Police have set up a perimeter in the area as a search for the suspect is underway. No information about the suspect has been released at this time. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > > Take anything Michelle posts with a grain of salt -- she has a record > > of posting uninformed guesses that turn out to be dead wrong, such as [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > products. Not only are you wrong, but you never admit it when proven to > be wrong. understatement of the year. > By the way, were you in Arlington, VA this morning? > > <http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0709/637285.html> > > ARLINGTON, Va. - Police in Arlington are on the scene of a > shooting at an Apple Store on Clarendon Boulevard. doesn't larry live near there? and with his hatred of anything apple... > On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 09:10:32 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky" >>"Michelle Steiner" <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message >>> The important parts of 3.1 (i.e., video improvement and voice >>> commands over Bluetooth) are only for the 3Gs. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > her recent claim (prior to 3.1) that voice commands work over > Bluetooth. The iPhone includes everything but the kitchen sink. Are you familiar with computing by voice? A relatively tiny vocabulary makes a big difference for recognition accuracy, but voice communications using a wireless microphone is hit-and-miss even on a PC. In other words... Mitch might be wrong, but wireless voice communication with an iPhone would be another very impressive technology. Doing general dictation instead of just command and control via a wireless microphone to the iPhone would be unbelievable. SignatureGoogle is the spammer's gateway to USENET... Google has destroyed access to the USENET archive... ...down with Google > >>> The important parts of 3.1 (i.e., video improvement and voice > >>> commands over Bluetooth) are only for the 3Gs. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > instead of just command and control via a wireless microphone to the iPhone > would be unbelievable. It'd be pretty unrealistic to expect that kind of processing power on a mobile device at this point, but we'll probably see it more widely implemented soon in a server-based way. Microsoft uses this with the voice- controlled search function in their Bing Mobile app (their alternative to Google Maps)- you push a button and say "Holiday Inn, Yakima Washington," it uploads your request, and (8 out of 10 times, anyway!) ;) lists the Holiday Inns in Yakima. Several voicemail-to-text transcription services like Callwave and YouMail convert your voicemail to text and SMS or email it to you- this can even be used as a dictation kludge- call yourself, leave your self the dictation as a voicemail message and receive the transcript in your inbox in less than a minute. This concept could easily be expanded to an app that returns transcriptions of voice notes. > ... you push a button and say "Holiday Inn, Yakima Washington," > it uploads your request, and (8 out of 10 times, anyway!) ;) Yeah, 8 out of 10 times on a good day. I use speech recognition every day, all day, for both command and dictation. There is a huge difference between theory, the wow effect, and then regular use. SignatureGoogle is the spammer's gateway to USENET... Google has destroyed access to the USENET archive... ...down with Google >> ... you push a button and say "Holiday Inn, Yakima Washington," >> it uploads your request, and (8 out of 10 times, anyway!) ;) > >Yeah, 8 out of 10 times on a good day. I use speech recognition every day, >all day, for both command and dictation. There is a huge difference between >theory, the wow effect, and then regular use. How reliable is speech recognition in a problem environment? (50 people on a bus are each trying to use speech recognition to command their OWN iPhone, the radio is blaring Apple commercials demonstrating their voice-command features, and 10 people are talking loudly on their phones). How about a hostile environment? (No matter what command you give, your wife and/or mother-in-law will try to countermand it). How about a really malicious environment? (Given an opportunity, anyone near you will try to delete as much of your data as possible, and if your iPhone has the iGrenade :-), they will try to detonate it.) >How reliable is speech recognition in a problem environment? (50 >people on a bus are each trying to use speech recognition to command >their OWN iPhone, the radio is blaring Apple commercials demonstrating >their voice-command features, and 10 people are talking loudly on >their phones). It isn't. I had the opportunity to try it on a plane a few days ago, it couldn't understand simple or complex commands. >How about a hostile environment? (No matter what command you give, >your wife and/or mother-in-law will try to countermand it). > >How about a really malicious environment? (Given an opportunity, >anyone near you will try to delete as much of your data as possible, >and if your iPhone has the iGrenade :-), they will try to detonate it.) I'm not sure that the current implementation is nearly powerful enough for there to be any danger from hostile or malicious users, at worst you might dial an unpredictably wrong number. Unpredictable because if the legitimate user says anything at all while the malicious user is giving commands, it will likely interfere enough to make the command fail. It's not like there is a "Delete application" or "Brick phone" voice command. >>> ... you push a button and say "Holiday Inn, Yakima Washington," >>> it uploads your request, and (8 out of 10 times, anyway!) ;) [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > and if your iPhone has the iGrenade :-), they will try to detonate > it.) Voice commands on ANY sellphone, including iPhone is useless in a noisy environment. Iphone isn't clairvoyant, either. Any kind of background noise within 10 db of your voice level just scambles it into uselessness. They're all that way. About the noise level of a quiet car with the windows rolled up on a smooth road is their tolerance. Roll the window down above 30 mph and you're into uncharted territory. The response to fan noise in a computer room is hilarious on any of them. (click) "Say a Command" "Call Travis" "Did you say Call Patterson Music?" "No" "Calling...." (Motorola Z6m.) Useless unless it's quiet. Then, it works great. MSNBC during the stock market coverage drives it crazy...(c;] ========================================================== Anybody got a boat? http://sourceforge.net/projects/opencpn/ Fantastic GPS/Chartplotter complete navigation system, FREE! Works on i386 Linux notebooks first class. Uses public datafiles....no subscriptions, no big money pit. Signature----- Larry Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the entrails of the last cleric. > Take anything Michelle posts with a grain of salt -- she has a record of > posting uninformed guesses that turn out to be dead wrong, such as her > recent claim (prior to 3.1) that voice commands work over Bluetooth. so she made a mistake. it's not like you have a perfect record either. > > Take anything Michelle posts with a grain of salt -- she has a > > record of posting uninformed guesses that turn out to be dead [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > so she made a mistake. it's not like you have a perfect record > either. And unlike him, I acknowledge my mistakes. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> > Take anything Michelle posts with a grain of salt -- she has a >> > record of posting uninformed guesses that turn out to be dead [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >And unlike him, I acknowledge my mistakes. That is too funny! SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? > >> > Take anything Michelle posts with a grain of salt -- she has a > >> > record of posting uninformed guesses that turn out to be dead [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > That is too funny! The feeble minded are easily amused. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >> > Take anything Michelle posts with a grain of salt -- she has a >> > record of posting uninformed guesses that turn out to be dead [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >And unlike him, I acknowledge my mistakes. Really? We're still waiting for you to tell us what Verizon manufactures. <news:michelle-5E8E5C.22254422062009@mara100-84.onlink.net> SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in news:030720091358336420% nospam@nospam.invalid: >> Take anything Michelle posts with a grain of salt -- she has a record of >> posting uninformed guesses that turn out to be dead wrong, such as her >> recent claim (prior to 3.1) that voice commands work over Bluetooth. > > so she made a mistake. it's not like you have a perfect record either. But if you look at the totality of her work here, you see it as one of many mistakes lately. I, for one, am still waiting for her proof refuting my claim that no other manufacturer goes out of its way to control the use of their product as Apple does with the iPhone. She was very quick to refute, not so quick to back it up. In fact, once she had stepped in a pile of sh.t again by claiming that Verizon was a manufacturer, she disappeared from the thread without so much as an implied admission of error. My point is that neither John Navas or Michelle Steiner has proven themselves to have the necessary product knowledge to rate as any kind of definitive source for iPhone expertise. They actually appear to be clones of one another with the sole difference being their position on Apple- both were somewhat relevent twenty years ago in old dinosaur technology and both were passed by long ago. Neither one of them really seems to have a grasp on the technology discussed in the cellular groups and both can resort to a rather snotty attitude when cornered. You'd think they were twins. > But if you look at the totality of her work here, you see it as one of many > mistakes lately. I, for one, am still waiting for her proof refuting my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sh.t again by claiming that Verizon was a manufacturer, she disappeared > from the thread without so much as an implied admission of error. verizon may not be a manufacturer but they definitely dictate what features are available or not available on the phones they accept on their network. >> But if you look at the totality of her work here, you see it as one >> of many mistakes lately. I, for one, am still waiting for her proof [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > features are available or not available on the phones they accept on > their network. Are the only carrier to do so? Can you name a US carrier that doesn't practice this for the subsidized phones they sell? > But if you look at the totality of her work here, you see it as one > of many mistakes lately. I, for one, am still waiting for her proof [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > a manufacturer, she disappeared from the thread without so much as an > implied admission of error. The point is that Verizon dictates to the phone manufacturers what to put in the phones and what not to put in to them. Therefore the distinction as to whether Verizon is a manufacturer is meaningless. > and both can resort to a rather snotty attitude when cornered. Now that's a case of the pot calling the kettle black if I ever saw one. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in news:michelle- DEC76B.17050403072009@news.eternal-september.org: >> But if you look at the totality of her work here, you see it as one >> of many mistakes lately. I, for one, am still waiting for her proof [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > put in the phones and what not to put in to them. Therefore the > distinction as to whether Verizon is a manufacturer is meaningless. That would be an incorrect statement. Many of the phones supplied to Verizon have a number of native features that are not active on the Verizon network. The features, however, are still on the phone. And while Verizon has a reputation for this, it is something practiced to some extent by all US carriers. By the way- your statement still proves that Apple is the only phone manufacturer to take such a heavy handed approach, which is what your incorrect reference to Verizon was in response to. >> and both can resort to a rather snotty attitude when cornered. > > Now that's a case of the pot calling the kettle black if I ever saw one. No it's not. > > The point is that Verizon dictates to the phone manufacturers what to > > put in the phones and what not to put in to them. Therefore the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > has a reputation for this, it is something practiced to some extent by all > US carriers. To be fair, however, the fact that the features are "still on the phone" isn't _necessarily_ Verizon's fault. Say they ask Motorola to supply, for $x, a "custom" RAZR with Verizon logo, UI, and no BT tethering and Moto then decides it's cheaper for them to take an "off the shelf" RAZR and turn off the tethering in a secret service menu rather than build a new version without the feature, it's not really Verizon's fault when some hacker figures out how to enable the feature that wasn't even supposed to be there in the first place. >> > The point is that Verizon dictates to the phone manufacturers what >> > to put in the phones and what not to put in to them. Therefore the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > first place. > I'm not placing fault on anyone- just simply pointing out that the carriers often put phones on their network that have much more hardware functionality than they want. > > The point is that Verizon dictates to the phone manufacturers what > > to put in the phones and what not to put in to them. Therefore the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Verizon have a number of native features that are not active on the > Verizon network. The features, however, are still on the phone. And many of the phones do not have the feature at all. Case in point: I once had a Motorola phone for my Verizon account; one of the features of that phone allowed me to move some files between the memory card and the phone's built-in memory. Then they made a system upgrade available, but along with the upgrade came a downgrade that prevented those moves. The feature was removed from the phone; it had nothing to do with the network. Verizon also required Motorola to prevent people from transferring photos between their computer and phone via both Bluetooth and USB; again, the feature was not on the phone, although it was on Motorola phones with other carriers. > By the way- your statement still proves that Apple is the only phone > manufacturer to take such a heavy handed approach, which is what your > incorrect reference to Verizon was in response to. When the carrier dictates to the manufacturer, it's a difference that makes no difference. > >> and both can resort to a rather snotty attitude when cornered. > > > > Now that's a case of the pot calling the kettle black if I ever saw > > one. > > No it's not. Enjoy your stay in that Egyptian river. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in news:michelle- 7F3857.11250104072009@news.eternal-september.org: >> > The point is that Verizon dictates to the phone manufacturers what >> > to put in the phones and what not to put in to them. Therefore the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Bluetooth and USB; again, the feature was not on the phone, although it > was on Motorola phones with other carriers. Are you the only one to not see that you are continuing to prove my point? >> By the way- your statement still proves that Apple is the only phone >> manufacturer to take such a heavy handed approach, which is what your >> incorrect reference to Verizon was in response to. > > When the carrier dictates to the manufacturer, it's a difference that > makes no difference. The only thing that merits indifference here is your blind allegiance to Apple. You have yet to back up your claim that they are not the only phone manufacturer to take such an approach. > Are you the only one to not see that you are continuing to prove my > point? It appears that you're the only person here to think that you actually have a point. Continue your bluster, buster; I'm going to ignore it from now on. If you ever post anything worthwhile, I may respond to it. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in news:michelle- 2A21BC.14095404072009@news.eternal-september.org: >> Are you the only one to not see that you are continuing to prove my >> point? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Continue your bluster, buster; I'm going to ignore it from now on. If > you ever post anything worthwhile, I may respond to it. Here's something worthwhile, and something that you won't respond to in context or with any facts: Apple is the only phone manufacturer in the world to arbitrarily and single-handedly limit the functionality of their phones. > Apple is the only phone manufacturer in the world to arbitrarily and > single-handedly limit the functionality of their phones. that must be why apple offers a developer sdk that virtually anyone can use it to extend the functionality of the iphone. > > Apple is the only phone manufacturer in the world to arbitrarily and > > single-handedly limit the functionality of their phones. > > that must be why apple offers a developer sdk that virtually anyone can > use it to extend the functionality of the iphone. Within the fairly strict limitations of the SDK, and the App store restrictions, of course, which are little different, in theory, than the sandbox of most J2ME dumbphones. > > > Apple is the only phone manufacturer in the world to arbitrarily and > > > single-handedly limit the functionality of their phones. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > restrictions, of course, which are little different, in theory, than the > sandbox of most J2ME dumbphones. the restrictions are if you want to sell apps in the apps store. if you write apps for yourself or for your company, you can do pretty much anything. >> > > Apple is the only phone manufacturer in the world to arbitrarily >> > > and single-handedly limit the functionality of their phones. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > the restrictions are if you want to sell apps in the apps store. And the other phone manufacturer that demonstrates that much control over phone functionality is...? > > > > Apple is the only phone manufacturer in the world to arbitrarily and > > > > single-handedly limit the functionality of their phones. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > if you write apps for yourself or for your company, you can do pretty > much anything. You still have the SDK/sandbox limitations, like having data only accessible to a single app. You still can't access the hardware outside of an API. Not super-critical limitations for most entertainment apps, but it's prevented any real useful Office doc editing suites so far (that may change thanks to the new email APIs), and any real alternative wireless PIM sync, or Calendar enhancements due to a lack of Calendar APIs. There's two categories right there that hamstring a "company" from writing apps that "do pretty much anything." > You still have the SDK/sandbox limitations, like having data only > accessible to a single app. You still can't access the hardware outside > of an API. that's true, but that's a minor issue. > Not super-critical limitations for most entertainment apps, but it's > prevented any real useful Office doc editing suites so far (that may [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > writing apps that "do pretty much > anything." how does the sdk limit that? plus, last year someone announced an office editing suite, i don't remember who it was though. > > You still have the SDK/sandbox limitations, like having data only > > accessible to a single app. You still can't access the hardware outside [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > how does the sdk limit that? plus, last year someone announced an > office editing suite, i don't remember who it was though. DataViz (makers of Docs To Go) made some noise about an iPhone app last year, but I haven't kept up to see when/if it'll be released. Until the SDK added email support, an Office suite was impractical- emailing docs on and off the phone is an important function of a mobile Office suite. Even with the new email APIs in 3.0, if the "sandbox" prevents the Office app from working with emailed docs, that's a _serious_ limitation. As to the lack of Calendar APIs, Pocket Informant's and Funambol's developers both complain that the SDK prevents their iPhone apps from having the full functionality the versions for other platforms have- PI has to create a separate calendar on the device since they can't access the iPhone's native calendar/alarm system, and Funambol can wirelessly sync Contacts ("There's an API For That..") but not Calendar. Those are fairly serious PIM restrictions. >DataViz (makers of Docs To Go) made some noise about an iPhone app last >year, but I haven't kept up to see when/if it'll be released. Until the >SDK added email support, an Office suite was impractical- emailing docs >on and off the phone is an important function of a mobile Office suite. >Even with the new email APIs in 3.0, if the "sandbox" prevents the Office >app from working with emailed docs, that's a _serious_ limitation. DtG is out, but it apparently needs some desktop plugin and can't send/receive documents wirelessly. Another case of Apple planting itself cleanly outside the enterprise environment. > As to the lack of Calendar APIs, Pocket Informant's and Funambol's > developers both complain that the SDK prevents their iPhone apps from [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sync Contacts ("There's an API For That..") but not Calendar. Those are > fairly serious PIM restrictions. That's the basic problem with the iPhone for use as a PIM, since the program can't access the calendar or contact information you'd have to have a separate sync app on a Jailbroken iPhone. A PIM would seem like a natural iPhone App. Now that the 3GS has been jailbroken, maybe there can be non-Apps store apps that get around this problem. >> As to the lack of Calendar APIs, Pocket Informant's and Funambol's >> developers both complain that the SDK prevents their iPhone apps from [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >program can't access the calendar or contact information you'd have to >have a separate sync app on a Jailbroken iPhone. Honestly, using a standalone PIM isn't really a big deal, it just synchronies in the background wirelessly rather then being tied to only being able to sync when wired. The lack of alarms is a bit more annoying, although it won't take long until push notifications work around that, Toodledo already has push notifications for tasks. > >> As to the lack of Calendar APIs, Pocket Informant's and Funambol's > >> developers both complain that the SDK prevents their iPhone apps from [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > synchronies in the background wirelessly rather then being tied to only > being able to sync when wired. I haven't played with PI on the iPhone, bu on WinMo it extended functionality also, and gave far greater flexibility defining at-a-glance views, color-coordinated appointment categories, etc. Nice additions if they used the device's native calendar and alarm/reminder database, but less so if separate, IMO. > The lack of alarms is a bit more annoying, although it won't take long > until push notifications work around that, Toodledo already has push > notifications for tasks. Good to know, but I'll likely stick with Google Mobile Sync's "simulation" of Exchange over Activesync , since it allows wireless sync and uses the device's native calendar/alarms database. >> >> As to the lack of Calendar APIs, Pocket Informant's and Funambol's >> >> developers both complain that the SDK prevents their iPhone apps from [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >they used the device's native calendar and alarm/reminder database, but >less so if separate, IMO. The only really advantage of integrating with the system databases is that other apps integrate most nicely. However, on the iPhone I simply don't have any other apps that I'd want integrated with my calendar directly at this point, so for me, it's a moot point. In addition, the built-in database on the iPhone is quite limiting, many of the fields Pocket Informant uses simply don't exist, so even with full access to the built-in DB, Pocket Informant would still need it's own DB, and likely it's own sync mechanism. >> But if you look at the totality of her work here, you see it as one >> of many mistakes lately. I, for one, am still waiting for her proof [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >put in the phones and what not to put in to them. Therefore the >distinction as to whether Verizon is a manufacturer is meaningless. That's lame even for you. SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? > >The point is that Verizon dictates to the phone manufacturers what > >to put in the phones and what not to put in to them. Therefore the > >distinction as to whether Verizon is a manufacturer is meaningless. > > That's lame even for you. yeah, you've already established that anything that disagrees with your prejudices is lame, so far as you are concerned, regardless of how accurate it is. SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign >nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in news:030720091358336420% >nospam@nospam.invalid: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >on the technology discussed in the cellular groups and both can resort to a >rather snotty attitude when cornered. You'd think they were twins. Your own post shows you to be no better than your accusations. SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? >>nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in news:030720091358336420% >>nospam@nospam.invalid: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Your own post shows you to be no better than your accusations. Proof, John? > > The important parts of 3.1 (i.e., video improvement and voice > > commands over Bluetooth) are only for the 3Gs. > > I hope you're incorrect about voice commands over Bluetooth being > only for the 3Gs. That's the one feature I would very much like to > have on my 3G iPhone. Voice commands in general are only for the 3GS. Neither the original iPhone nor the 3G support them. <http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3630> SignatureMember National Rifle Association Member American Civil Liberties Union Member Human Rights Campaign > 3.0 represented the minimal feature set to support the latest iPhone > hardware. A high priority was probably given to the ability to shoot > videos, since that's an easy thing to feature in advertisements. And because so many other phones have been able to shoot videos for a long time they needed that feature, but the old processor was a little slow for it. Kids love the video feature of phones. When I got my daughter a replacement phone after her Motorola crapped out, this was a feature she was glad it had. I didn't care, it was my free phone from a Verizon new-every-two, and I kept my old phone and gave her the new one with a slide out keyboard, video, and Windows Mobile (and no data plan requirement). What's needed now in California is a law about not web browsing or texting while walking. It's enormously amusing at certain intersections in Cupertino near Apple, where large numbers of people are crossing De Anza Boulevard, their eyes are glued to the iPhone in their hand, oblivious to the fact that the light has changed. But good for Apple that they're able to do well in this economy. I think I'll go to the iRestaurant (the closest Chinese restaurant to Apple) for lunch. [alt.cellular.cingular removed, Cingular no longer exists] >> 3.0 represented the minimal feature set to support the latest iPhone >> hardware. A high priority was probably given to the ability to shoot [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >long time they needed that feature, but the old processor was a little >slow for it. Yet many other handsets do video with much less processor power. In other words, that's not the real issue -- the real issue is probably OS X, because it isn't a true RTOS, as used in so many other handsets. >What's needed now in California is a law about not web browsing or >texting while walking. ... Yeah, just what we need, another stupid law. >[alt.cellular.cingular removed, Cingular no longer exists] alt.cellular.cingular restored SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in news:michelle- A5EA31.15251901072009@news.eternal-september.org: > Another noteworthy enhancement is the ability to issue commands to the > iPhone's new Voice Control feature over Bluetooth headsets. Spoken > commands when running iPhone Software 3.0 aren't picked up by Bluetooth > headsets, and are instead channeled through an iPhone's built-in > microphone even when a headset is connected. Is it going to follow commands from the Bluetooth headset's controllers, too? Signature----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? |
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