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Cellular Phone Forum / Country Specific / Australian Group / September 2005I-Mode
Just been looking Telstras new silly ripoff 3G plans out of curiosty. I have noticed this I-Mode guff doesn't work on all 3G or 2.5G GPRS handsets? Why not, what expactly is "non-standard" about the way I-mode works. Seems destined the fail if it doesn't work accross standard GSM technologies. Also, does anyone know if Nokia is planning to release a 3G version of its 6230i. I personally love the classic Nokia design, but would like to get the extra speed of 3G and particulary the Telstra coverage with 3's pricing. I would move to three now, but I just don't like any of the handsets. Danny. > Just been looking Telstras new silly ripoff 3G plans out of curiosty. > > I have noticed this I-Mode guff doesn't work on all 3G or 2.5G GPRS > handsets? Why not, what expactly is "non-standard" about the way > I-mode works. Seems destined the fail if it doesn't work accross > standard GSM technologies. iMode is essentially WAP 2.0, older phones support WAP 1.0. Of course, there would be also the issue of buggy implementations. WAP 2.0 is figured to have a better chance of survival than WAP because its closer to web standards, the important one being its presentation standard, a profile of XHTML, doesn't require a web designer to learn a whole new markup language and the XHTML page created for a mobile could double as web page for a modern web browser. If a Mobile Internet (horrible word) designer wants their page to be ubiquitous they'd use WML which lacks the presentation abilities of XHTML. On the plus side the WML can be more compact - but neither designers or carriers care about that for their own selfish reasons. >... >iMode is essentially WAP 2.0 Nope. Much muh more than that. I-mode includes Java (doja), messageing (e-mail to handset to e-mail to MMS), integrated billing model, subscription content plus a whole lot more stuff. I-mode does require dedicated handsets - mostly because it evolved before and in isolation from the WAP standards. > >iMode is essentially WAP 2.0 > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I-mode does require dedicated handsets - mostly because it evolved > before and in isolation from the WAP standards. And is it true I Mode was around back in 2000 in Japan way before we got it? Yes. It's a Japanese innovation. I-mode was released in Japan in early 1999 using a proprietary packet data network at speeds of 9.6kbps. > Just been looking Telstras new silly ripoff 3G plans out of curiosty. > > I have noticed this I-Mode guff doesn't work on all 3G or 2.5G GPRS > handsets? Why not, what expactly is "non-standard" about the way > I-mode works. Seems destined the fail if it doesn't work accross Because its not an I-mode handset, dipshit. Same as my Noka 2010 from 1996, it doesnt do GPRS or imode either! Michael said.... > Because its not an I-mode handset, dipshit. I hope that you're not in a customer service role. Especially if you work at a call centre trying to flog Telstra services. You'd probably get into some ripper arguments over the phone... > > Just been looking Telstras new silly ripoff 3G plans out of curiosty. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Same as my Noka 2010 from 1996, it doesnt do GPRS or imode either! Cocksucker. The proprietary service providers that Telstra has signed up for I-Mode service are very limited and don't appear to be expanding. The same as the sorry story of Telstra WAP. Example: I-Mode launched with just one bank customer - Citibank. It still has just one bank customer. So I-Mode remains useless for internet banking if you don't happen to bank with Citi. I-Mode adoption in Australia have been sluggish and it looks like, as has been demonstrated countless times before, rolling out a proprietary service that's limited to just one carrier is to be doomed to yet another market failure. > Just been looking Telstras new silly ripoff 3G plans out of curiosty. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Danny. >The proprietary service providers that Telstra has signed up for I-Mode >service are very limited and don't appear to be expanding. The same as the >sorry story of Telstra WAP. Example: I-Mode launched with just one bank >customer - Citibank. It still has just one bank customer. So I-Mode >remains useless for internet banking if you don't happen to bank with Citi. >I-Mode adoption in Australia have been sluggish and it looks like, as has >been demonstrated countless times before, rolling out a proprietary service >that's limited to just one carrier is to be doomed to yet another market >failure. Well I'm still trying to figure out what I-mode actually is. Telstra's ads on TV tell you stuff all about what it is. I think it's something owned by a Japanese telco. Craig.  SignatureCraig Dewick (craig@poison.lios.apana.org.au). http://lios.apana.org.au/~craig APANA Sydney Deputy Regional Co-ordinator. Operator of Jedi (APANA Sydney POP) Always striving for a secure long-term future in an insecure short-term world Have you exported a crypto system today? Do your bit to undermine the NSA. >>I-Mode adoption in Australia have been sluggish and it looks like, as has >>been demonstrated countless times before, rolling out a proprietary service >>that's limited to just one carrier is to be doomed to yet another market >>failure. >Well I'm still trying to figure out what I-mode actually is. Telstra's ads >on TV tell you stuff all about what it is. I think it's something owned by a >Japanese telco. I-Mode was developed by NTT in Japan where it's apparently a big success. As far as I can figure it out, I-Mode is not internet access over the phone. I-Mode is a sales/advertising medium where companies (like Fox and CNN and NineMSN) sign up with Telstra to sell you their services over your mobile phone. You pay Telstra for that privilege, and you also pay the service provider for whatever it is that they are providing for you. For example, if you want to read the latest news online, you could sign up with news.com.au and pay some $/month to read their site on your mobile phone. You would also be paying Telstra for the data you download, at a rate of 2.2c/kbyte (i.e. $22.50/mbyte), unless you arrange a data pack with them, whereby some data is included (max 4 megs at $16.50/month) and only pay for excess data per month (minimum price 0.4c/kbyte, i.e. $4/mbyte). See http://www.i-mode.com.au/pricing.cfm Typical costs for checking the news headlines range from $0.53 to $0.36 in Telstra charges. Nick. Signaturehttp://www.nick-andrew.net/ http://aus.news-admin.org/ I prefer USENET replies. Don't send email copies. Drop the spamtrap to reply. i always wondered how people deal with mytv and trailer dloads on telstra active, isnt it super expensive? SignatureFreakyAye Nope. While I despise the "internet on your phone" description, i-mode give access to all of the internet. Whether a particular page can be displayed on your device is another question. There is plenty of free stuff available - even on the Telstra implemenation. In fact, worldwide, the number of free not DoCoMo affiliated sites far outnumbers the "premium" content sites. Also, almost all i-mode services come with some form of dat pack so most people will never pay the exhorbitant 2.2c/kB. Also, you costs for news headlines etc. are way wrong. I-mode browsers are mostly limited to 10kB per page (except for 3G devices, which has a different charging scheme), so the most you can pay for a single page - even at 2.2c/Kb, is 22C. If you have a data pack this could be as "low" as 4c/per page - still far more expesive than it could be but getting better >Nope. While I despise the "internet on your phone" description, i-mode >give access to all of the internet. Please provide some proof for your assertion, e.g. a telco webpage which says so in plain language. For example, the FAQ on www.i-mode.com.au (a telstra site) answers the question "What is i-mode?" with: "i-mode is a new mobile data service that provides access to i-mode email, i-mode picture messaging and a wide range of content sites" It doesn't mention the internet. It doesn't mention all of the internet, only "a wide range of content sites". >Also, almost all i-mode services come with some form of dat pack so >most people will never pay the exhorbitant 2.2c/kB. Sure, but even the cheapest Telstra rate on the biggest plan is 0.4 c/kbyte, which is $4 per megabyte. Download a 3-minute MP3 at that rate and it will cost you $12. Download the same MP3 at a casual rate and you'll be paying $67. Whether it's the least or the most expensive rate, you're paying through the nose for data. >Also, you costs for news headlines etc. are way wrong. I-mode browsers >are mostly limited to 10kB per page (except for 3G devices, which has a >different charging scheme), so the most you can pay for a single page >- even at 2.2c/Kb, is 22C. These aren't my prices, they are Telstra's prices from: http://www.i-mode.com.au/pricing.cfm Nick. Signaturehttp://www.nick-andrew.net/ http://aus.news-admin.org/ I prefer USENET replies. Don't send email copies. Drop the spamtrap to reply. >Please provide some proof for your assertion, e.g. a telco webpage >which says so in plain language. Unlike you, I have actualy used i-mode, and thus can at least speak from a position of kowledge. I assure you that this possible - I use google from an i-mode handset regularly. >Sure, but even the cheapest Telstra rate on the biggest plan is >0.4 c/kbyte, which is $4 per megabyte. Download a 3-minute MP3 >at that rate and it will cost you $12 Once again, file downloads are restricted on i-mode browsers to a max of between 30 and 100kB - depending on content type, so you cant downlod a "3 minute MP3". You would be stupid to do this on any handset anyway - much better to use a more efficient format like AAC, AAC+ etc. The prices quoted on that page are plain wrong - which is not unusual for Telstra. The unusual thing is that thaey are actually more than you pay in reality. >>Please provide some proof for your assertion, e.g. a telco webpage >>which says so in plain language. >Unlike you, I have actualy used i-mode, and thus can at least speak >from a position of kowledge. I assure you that this possible - I use >google from an i-mode handset regularly. When you can browse www.zeta.org.au and ssh into godzilla.zeta.org.au using i-mode then I will be impressed. Until then, it's not internet. >>Sure, but even the cheapest Telstra rate on the biggest plan is >>0.4 c/kbyte, which is $4 per megabyte. Download a 3-minute MP3 >>at that rate and it will cost you $12 >Once again, file downloads are restricted on i-mode browsers to a max >of between 30 and 100kB - depending on content type, so you cant >downlod a "3 minute MP3". I see. >You would be stupid to do this on any handset >anyway - much better to use a more efficient format like AAC, AAC+ etc. No, you'd be stupid to download any quantity of data at that kind of rate, regardless of encoding. I'm just pointing out that the bandwidth cost of downloading a 3-minute song exceeds (in some cases vastly exceeds) the cost of buying the whole CD. Why are the data prices for i-mode such a rip-off? Compare them to Iburst for example, at around 10c/meg in the worst case (looking at http://homesite.service.ozemail.com.au/products/metro/products/metro/mobile#2 for this). >The prices quoted on that page are plain wrong - which is not unusual >for Telstra. The unusual thing is that thaey are actually more than you >pay in reality. I guess Telstra didn't update their page recently. But it still looks like a rip-off to me unless the price comes down by an order of magnitude or so. Nick. Signaturehttp://www.nick-andrew.net/ http://aus.news-admin.org/ I prefer USENET replies. Don't send email copies. Drop the spamtrap to reply. > Why are the data prices for i-mode such a rip-off? Compare them to > Iburst for example, at around 10c/meg in the worst case (looking at > http://homesite.service.ozemail.com.au/products/metro/products/metro/mobile#2 > for this). Because I-Mode uses the mobile phone network while iBurst doesn't. Telstra has spent an insane amount of money building the mobile phone network. It's old, expensive, 1990s technology. Jamming more data through its thin pipes will eventually mean more spending to expand those pipes. Hence high prices. OTOH, the cost of iBurst's post-Y2K technology is much lower for the same data rates. Hence far more competitive pricing. Bottom line: If Telstra were to charge iBurst rates for data moved over the Telstra mobile network, it would be a go-out-of-business strategy. Telstra is between a rock and a hard place on this stuff. > Telstra has spent an insane amount of money building the mobile phone > network. It's old, expensive, 1990s technology. Jamming more data through [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Telstra mobile network, it would be a go-out-of-business strategy. Telstra > is between a rock and a hard place on this stuff. That's one way of looking at it. The other is that Telstra has been asleep at the wheel and wasted an insane amount of money over the years in failed ventures in Asia, a bloated inefficient buerocracy and other things, instead of investing it where they should have .... Take your pick ! I have my money on the second. > >Nope. While I despise the "internet on your phone" description, i-mode > >give access to all of the internet. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It doesn't mention the internet. It doesn't mention all of the internet, > only "a wide range of content sites". Thats because most of the pages on the internet cant be rendered on an imode phone. just like wap or gprs > The proprietary service providers that Telstra has signed up for I-Mode > service are very limited and don't appear to be expanding. The same as the New merchants are added every month. >> The proprietary service providers that Telstra has signed up for I-Mode >> service are very limited and don't appear to be expanding. The same as > the > > New merchants are added every month. New merchants maybe. That really goes to show what the service is for doesn't it? Selling stuff. No thanks. And no to me, as a user, paying for advertising data. No new services that are actually worth having have been added for many months, eg online banking, stockbroking. Not even the Telstra white pages for christ's sake. White pages were available years ago on Telstra WAP. They've been dropped. Why why why? Argument over transfer pricing between Sensis and Telstra Mobile maybe? I smell a bunch of Telstra marketers rowing in different directions. |
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