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Cellular Phone Forum / Country Specific / Australian Group / June 2008More SPAM?
....have had a GSM service from Optus for years. I live in a rural area and had never had spam calls or messages. Recently, I was in town (Lismore NSW) on a rare visit. Had a voice call telling me I "might have won a $60 betting voucher". Terminated, immediately. A query for the techies.....is it possible that spam can be directed to specific geographic areas? I can't imagine why, though. Just curious. ------------------------------------------------ Death is Nature's way of telling you you aren't needed, any more. >....have had a GSM service from Optus for years. >I live in a rural area and had never had spam calls or messages. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Just curious. Just had a thought.....one reason could be that it was a local club running a promotion. Lismore Workers' Club is a biggy. Feasible? ----------------------------------- Death is Nature's way of telling you you aren't needed, any more. I have just received a few from 19711200 won ringtones - call and collect the prize they do not seem to want to stop - I thought that there was legislation put in place to stop this type of unsolicited spam? >>....have had a GSM service from Optus for years. >>I live in a rural area and had never had spam calls or messages. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Death is Nature's way of telling you you aren't > needed, any more. > I have just received a few from 19711200 > won ringtones - call and collect the prize > they do not seem to want to stop - I thought that there was > legislation put in place to stop this type of unsolicited spam? Nope, just a mechanism to opt out of it if you dont want to get it. >> brian w edginton <edgo.2@bigpond.com> wrote >>> ....have had a GSM service from Optus for years. >>> I live in a rural area and had never had spam calls or messages. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> >> Feasible? Rod Speed wrote... > > they do not seem to want to stop - I thought that there was > > legislation put in place to stop this type of unsolicited spam? > > Nope, just a mechanism to opt out of it if you dont want to get it. Does it work, though? > Rod Speed wrote... >>> they do not seem to want to stop - I thought that there was >>> legislation put in place to stop this type of unsolicited spam? >> Nope, just a mechanism to opt out of it if you dont want to get it. > Does it work, though? Depends on what you call work. It mostly does with local operations except for the inevitable risk of a fuckup where you list the number in the do no call register and that does eliminate most calls except where you do have a commercial relationship with the caller, because you have chosen to deal with that operation and where someone manages to fuckup and call you when they arent supposed to and they didnt intend to flout the law. BUT the very fundamental problem with the whole approach is that there is nothing that can be done about operations outside the country that choose to ignore you listing your number on the do not call register, where there isnt any direct association with a local operation that can be shafted if they choose to ignore our law. Most obviously with the operations that are entirely overseas based and so arguably dont have any legal obligation to comply with our law and no way thats practical to take any action against them even if the authoritys decide to bother. >> Rod Speed wrote... > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > comply with our law and no way thats practical to take any action against > them even if the authoritys decide to bother. Replied, so Snapper can see. Rod Speed wrote... > be shafted if they choose to ignore our law. Most obviously with the > operations that are entirely overseas based and so arguably dont have > any legal obligation to comply with our law and no way thats practical > to take any action against them even if the authoritys decide to bother. What about the companies that they're selling products for here in Australia? We get calls all the time regarding mobile phones. These originate from OS, usually India or whereever. But the products that they're selling have to be from here. So why not go those pricks? They are just using the call centre as their agents. Sort of like when you pay some dude to commit a crime, eg, murder, rob a store or sell drugs. You can go to jail for that, like Mokbel is on trial for, or will be on trial for the murder of Lewis Moran even though he didn't pull the trigger. > Rod Speed wrote >> BUT the very fundamental problem with the whole approach is that >> there is nothing that can be done about operations outside the country [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> any legal obligation to comply with our law and no way thats practical to >> take any action against them even if the authoritys decide to bother. > What about the companies that they're selling products for here in Australia? Thats what I meant about no direct association with a local operation, nothing can be done about those which dont have any. > We get calls all the time regarding mobile phones. These originate > from OS, usually India or whereever. But the products that they're > selling have to be from here. So why not go those pricks? They are > just using the call centre as their agents. Yes, its certainly possible to shaft those operations in that situation. > Sort of like when you pay some dude to commit a crime, > eg, murder, rob a store or sell drugs. You can go to jail > for that, like Mokbel is on trial for, or will be on trial for the > murder of Lewis Moran even though he didn't pull the trigger. Sure, but the problem is with the ones that arent flogging something from a local operation at all, most obviously with those flogging overseas holidays or 'investment' schemes and asian time share etc. Rod Speed wrote... > Sure, but the problem is with the ones that arent flogging something > from a local operation at all, most obviously with those flogging > overseas holidays or 'investment' schemes and asian time share etc. Haven't got any of them. Just mobs flogging phone services and in some cases power or gas contracts... > Rod Speed wrote >> Sure, but the problem is with the ones that arent flogging something >> from a local operation at all, most obviously with those flogging >> overseas holidays or 'investment' schemes and asian time share etc. > Haven't got any of them. Just mobs flogging phone > services and in some cases power or gas contracts... Sure, but you havent had that many to your mobile. Have you got them on the do not call register ? Rod Speed wrote... > > Haven't got any of them. Just mobs flogging phone > > services and in some cases power or gas contracts... > > Sure, but you havent had that many to your mobile. > > Have you got them on the do not call register ? Haven't got anyone. I have yet to register. But I might, even though most of them come from O/S. When we get "Private Caller" we let the call go to the answering machine. I would like to reinstate the following greeting: "You've reached our answering machine because you either have blocked your caller ID or we aren't here. If your call is really important to us then you can leave a message. For everyone else, sorry for the inconvenience. We will get back to you ASAP." but the missus made me delete it. Or rather, she recorded a new message over it. > Rod Speed wrote >>> Haven't got any of them. Just mobs flogging phone >>> services and in some cases power or gas contracts... >> Sure, but you havent had that many to your mobile. >> Have you got them on the do not call register ? > Haven't got anyone. I have yet to register. > But I might, even though most of them come from O/S. They are still required to observe it, particularly when they are acting for local operations. But then they are now also required to present their Caller ID too, and quite a few dont bother. > When we get "Private Caller" we let the call go to the answering > machine. I would like to reinstate the following greeting: > "You've reached our answering machine because you either have > blocked your caller ID or we aren't here. If your call is really > important to us then you can leave a message. For everyone > else, sorry for the inconvenience. We will get back to you ASAP." > but the missus made me delete it. Who has the balls at your place ? > Or rather, she recorded a new message over it. Obvious fix for that problem. Rod Speed wrote... > > but the missus made me delete it. > > Who has the balls at your place ? She has, of course. Whoever says that this isn't the case is either: 1. lying 2. not married 3. will never get married 4. was married 5. likes eternal conflict and grief 6. or is married to a subservient mousy type who either wears a burka or is lousy in bed or both.. Like they say, "happy wife, happy life..." > Rod Speed wrote... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > What about the companies that they're selling products for here in > Australia? yes, they have to obide by DNC register > We get calls all the time regarding mobile phones. These originate from > OS, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > as > their agents. So are you on DNC register? > Rod Speed wrote... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Does it work, though? I went back to provider (Isim through Optus) they are going to block that number from my phone. They advised I should ring the opt out number and ask to be taken off the DB. Since I didn't opt in my number should not be on their DB > Rod Speed wrote... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Does it work, though? generally > ....have had a GSM service from Optus for years. > I live in a rural area and had never had spam calls or messages. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Just curious. Short answer is "yes". >> ....have had a GSM service from Optus for years. >> I live in a rural area and had never had spam calls or messages. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> Just curious. >Short answer is "yes". Thanks!!! BTW, my landlord received the same call in Grafton on the same day....or close to it. Guessing its a group thing. Funded by the clubs' association or similar. Maybe. ----------------------------------- Death is Nature's way of telling you you aren't needed, any more. brian w edginton wrote... > A query for the techies.....is it possible that spam can be directed > to specific geographic areas? You, like me, have had your number plucked out of possibly a random number thingy. I haven't receive any such calls until last week when I received two in as many weeks, both from different mobs. One was a betting mob, the other, a trivia competition mob. Both of which were "giving" me $60 credits. > brian w edginton wrote >> A query for the techies.....is it possible that spam >> can be directed to specific geographic areas? > You, like me, have had your number plucked > out of possibly a random number thingy. It looks more likely he was targetted geographically. Its certainly technically feasible for the system to work out which mobiles are working thru particular mobile bases. > I haven't receive any such calls until last week when > I received two in as many weeks, both from different mobs. > One was a betting mob, the other, a trivia competition mob. > Both of which were "giving" me $60 credits. > It looks more likely he was targetted geographically. > > Its certainly technically feasible for the system to work out > which mobiles are working thru particular mobile bases. That suggests Optus is selling the info (about who is where) based on its internal location registers. There are some legitimate privacy issues in doing this. The only other method I can think of for sniffing out who's in the neighbourhood is Bluetooth. This is very short range (could be hundreds of metres with the right antenna), only finds phones with "discoverable" turned on, and doesn't give away the phone number. So while a BT "message" can be transferred, a voice call is out of the question without a BT-ID to phone number lookup (which not even Optus has). John > Rod Speed wrote >> It looks more likely he was targetted geographically. >> Its certainly technically feasible for the system to work out >> which mobiles are working thru particular mobile bases. > That suggests Optus is selling the info (about who is where) > based on its internal location registers. Not necessarily. They could be just delivering the spam SMS to the mobiles that their system knows are in a particular area. > There are some legitimate privacy issues in doing this. Nope, not if they just deliver the spam SMS and dont tell the source of the SMS anything about which mobiles they sent the SMS to, just the total of SMSs sent etc. > The only other method I can think of for sniffing out who's in > the neighbourhood is Bluetooth. This is very short range [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > transferred, a voice call is out of the question without a > BT-ID to phone number lookup (which not even Optus has). But its completely trivial to deliver a spam SMS to mobiles that have logged into particular mobile bases and dont tell the originator of the SMS which numbers the SMS was sent to. >> Rod Speed wrote > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > to the mobiles that their system knows are in a particular > area. The OP talks about getting a spam voice call based on location. I agree that could have come from Optus directly rather than compromising whereabouts info by passing it to a third party. John Rod Speed wrote... > > That suggests Optus is selling the info (about who is where) > > based on its internal location registers. > > Not necessarily. They could be just delivering the spam SMS > to the mobiles that their system knows are in a particular area. How would they know this? There used to be a geographical link to mobile numbers when they first come out. The phone's home cell had the area code in the number, but that quickly fell by the wayside as the takeup of mobiles got greater. > > There are some legitimate privacy issues in doing this. > > Nope, not if they just deliver the spam SMS and dont > tell the source of the SMS anything about which mobiles > they sent the SMS to, just the total of SMSs sent etc. Eh? > Rod Speed wrote... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > How would they know this? google for "home location register" and "visitor location register". John I wrote: > google for "home location register" and "visitor location > register". I should have given some more background. GSM/UMTS overage is broken down to "location areas" within countries. A cell has a unique ID consisting of 4 parts. Firstly, there's the country (MCC) and the operator ID (MNC). Together, MCC with MNC is also called PLMN). Then there's the location area code (LAC), and finally the cell ID itself. The cell ID is unique only when taken with that other info (the MCC + MNC + LAC + cell ID combination). The location area is the area in which all cells transmit the paging call when your phone receives an incoming call or message. So your carrier has to know your LAC. An LAC can cover a signifiant part of a city, an entire city, or hundreds of square kilometres of country. You don't want too many LACs, or phone battery life suffers. This is because each phone must transmit a location update every time it camps on a cell with a different LAC from the last. That happening several times a minute in your lounge room isn't good. So your carrier always knows your current LAC. It's very basic information. John >> Rod Speed wrote... >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > google for "home location register" and "visitor location > register". WHICH SPAMMERS DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO, YOU FOOLS > John >>> Rod Speed wrote... >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > WHICH SPAMMERS DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO, YOU FOOLS THEY DONT NEED TO, YOU STUPID PIG IGNORANT DRUG CRAZED DUNNY CLEANING FUCKWIT CHILD. > Rod Speed wrote >>> That suggests Optus is selling the info (about who is where) >>> based on its internal location registers. >> Not necessarily. They could be just delivering the spam SMS >> to the mobiles that their system knows are in a particular area. > How would they know this? The mobile system has to keep track of what bases can hear your mobile so they can get that base to whistle up your mobile when you receive a call. > There used to be a geographical link to mobile numbers when they first > come out. The phone's home cell had the area code in the number, but > that quickly fell by the wayside as the takeup of mobiles got greater. Yeah, it obviously cant be done that way. >>> There are some legitimate privacy issues in doing this. >> Nope, not if they just deliver the spam SMS and dont >> tell the source of the SMS anything about which mobiles >> they sent the SMS to, just the total of SMSs sent etc. > Eh? If the mobile telco just sends SMSs or voice messages to the mobile that have logged in to a few bases, and doesnt tell the originator of the SMS or voice message which mobile numbers they have been sent to, just the total of how many got sent, there arent any privacy issues, particularly if the do not call register is observed. >> > That suggests Optus is selling the info (about who is where) >> > based on its internal location registers. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > fell by > the wayside as the takeup of mobiles got greater. On GSM, the geographic link was never smaller than state-based >> It looks more likely he was targetted geographically. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > based on its internal location registers. There are some > legitimate privacy issues in doing this. load of mass hysteria Rod Speed wrote... > It looks more likely he was targetted geographically. > > Its certainly technically feasible for the system to work out > which mobiles are working thru particular mobile bases. But that would require info from either Telstra or Optus or whever the mobile carrier that he's with, wouldn't it? If that's the case, then if he starts getting slugged for charges that he didn't ask for and doesn't accept, then that carrier would have to wear it, wouldn't it? > Rod Speed wrote >> It looks more likely he was targetted geographically. >> Its certainly technically feasible for the system to work out >> which mobiles are working thru particular mobile bases. > But that would require info from either Telstra or Optus > or whever the mobile carrier that he's with, wouldn't it? Not if the telco delivers the SMS or voice message, without telling the originator of the message who was delivered to number wise. > If that's the case, then if he starts getting slugged > for charges that he didn't ask for and doesn't accept, > then that carrier would have to wear it, wouldn't it? Sure, but the originator of the message can just pay for that, at a discounted rate etc. >> brian w edginton wrote > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Its certainly technically feasible for the system to work out > which mobiles are working thru particular mobile bases. no its not >>> brian w edginton wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > no its not Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a f.cking clue about anything at all, ever. > ....have had a GSM service from Optus for years. > I live in a rural area and had never had spam calls or messages. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > A query for the techies.....is it possible that spam can be directed > to specific geographic areas? no. a mobile number is a mobile number. its non geographic s >> ....have had a GSM service from Optus for years. >> I live in a rural area and had never had spam calls or messages. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >a mobile number is a mobile number. its non geographic >s So, I guess, it was a simple fluke that I got my only spam in several years while I was in a town area. Thanks. ---------------------------------------------- Death is Nature's way of telling you you aren't needed, any more. >> ....have had a GSM service from Optus for years. >> I live in a rural area and had never had spam calls or messages. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> A query for the techies.....is it possible that spam can be directed >> to specific geographic areas? > no. Yep. > a mobile number is a mobile number. its non geographic Irrelevant to whether it can be done anyway. |
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