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Cellular Phone Forum / General / General Topics / April 2004GSM SIM Global Confusion
I have never used a GSM phone before; my questions are based only upon what I have read in the various forums and web sites. It is my understanding that a GSM phone purchased in the U.S. will work globally on other GSM systems, as long as it incorporates the proper frequencies, ...AND the U.S. vendor has roaming agreements in that foreign country, ...OR the phone is unlocked and a SIM card is obtained for, or in, that country to work with its local systems. (T/F?) It is my understanding that a SIM card is pretty readily available in foreign countries, without a lot of complication. (T/F?) (I even read in one forum that you could buy them from the cigar store vendor at the airport -- perhaps he was exaggerating a bit.) If both the above are pretty much true, then what I don't understand is why the reverse doesn't seem to be true? e.g., It is my understanding that if I buy a GSM phone overseas, which incorporates all the proper U.S. frequencies, that I cannot just go buy a SIM, at the local "cigar store" for it to work in the U.S. Instead I have to purchase a vendor "plan/contract" along with a cell phone that contains a SIM, and then insert that SIM into my foreign-purchased phone. So, bottom line, if I am going from the U.S. to a foreign country, one phone is adequate. If the reverse, then I have to purchase two phones, one for throwaway. Can one of you experienced people please tell me where my understanding is flawed? Thank you very much, in advance, for any clarification, David >It is my understanding that a GSM phone purchased in the U.S. will >work globally on other GSM systems, as long as it incorporates the >proper frequencies, >...AND the U.S. vendor has roaming agreements in that foreign country, >...OR the phone is unlocked and a SIM card is obtained for, or in, >that country to work with its local systems. (T/F?) True >It is my understanding that a SIM card is pretty readily available in >foreign countries, without a lot of complication. (T/F?) True > (I even read in one forum that you could buy them from the cigar store vendor >at the airport -- perhaps he was exaggerating a bit.) Pretty much. I have even been to countries where you could buy (legitimate) cards from the people in the street when you are stopped in traffic. >If both the above are pretty much true, then what I don't understand >is why the reverse doesn't seem to be true? > >e.g., It is my understanding that if I buy a GSM phone overseas, which >incorporates all the proper U.S. frequencies, that I cannot just go >buy a SIM, at the local "cigar store" for it to work in the U.S. Depending on what you mean by "Cigar store", pre-paid SIM's are redily available at kiosks in malls nationwide. >Instead I have to purchase a vendor "plan/contract" along with a cell >phone that contains a SIM, and then insert that SIM into my >foreign-purchased phone. Nope, you can buy the SIM as a seperate purchase and you can buy one that is PAYG. Where are you? -- John S. e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net Thank you for the feedback, John. Interesting! So if I buy a SIM in the U.S. then, it will be from a GSM vendor such as AT&T, or T-Mobile; and will be, as you say, PAYG. OR, could the SIM be equivalent to a "plan/contract", except with the cost of the handset subtracted? Ref your question: I am in Albuquerque, but my "frequent flyer miles" are to Australia and Thailand, (where the GSM freq is 900, I believe) Best, David >>It is my understanding that a GSM phone purchased in the U.S. will >>work globally on other GSM systems, as long as it incorporates the [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >Where are you? Basically it works like this:- You can buy a Sim card from your GSM service provider say for example AT&T in the USA. You can then use the same number you are currently using in America in Australia only if AT&T also has 'roaming' facilities in Australia. What that basically means is that AT&T has got an agreement with Australia and is linked up with their network as well so that when you arrive in Australia with your cell phone and you switch your cellphone on, then down under the network in Australia then recognises that you are an AT&T subscriber, it then requests AT&T in the USA if you are allowed to use the phone in Australia. AT&T then notifies the Australian network that you are a valid subscriber for AT&T and any phone calls made from your cdellphone must be billed onto your account in the states. What also happens is that you will be able to connect to any GSM provider in Australia. All of them will know to bill your account in the states. So you wont be just limited to one service provider in Australia. So if the reception of provider 'A' is bad say in Perth for example you can switch over to provider 'B' and then get better reception from provider 'B' in Perth. That is how international GSM roaming works. If they do not have roaming available, as suggested you can buy a Sim card over the counter but it will obviously be provided with a local GSM phone number. If AT&T do not have a roaming agreement with Australia then you cant do what I mentioned above so you must figure out from your GSM providers there by you which of them have got roaming agreements with Australia or with whichever country you are going to. Thank you so much for your time and reply, C.F. I think I got it all, except for possibly the following paragraph: >What also happens is that you will be able to connect to any GSM provider in >Australia. All of them will know to bill your account in the states. So you >wont be just limited to one service provider in Australia. When you say "any" GSM provider in Oz, don't you mean any provider in Oz that is part of my provider (AT&T)'s roaming agreement? For example, if AT&T has a roaming agreement with Telstra in Oz, how would Optus or Vodaphone in Oz know that I should be billed via AT&T to my account in the U.S.? Thanks again, David Each carrier would independently verify this with ATT. Stu > Thank you so much for your time and reply, C.F. > I think I got it all, except for possibly the following paragraph: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Thanks again, > David This is really counter-intuitive for me, but, in summary, what I think I am understanding from you and C.F. is that if my home country provider has a roaming agreement with ANY provider in country X, then I will be able to roam with ALL providers in country X(?) And furthermore, they will all recognize a call to my home country phone number, and they will all somehow get my charges back to my home country account for billing(?) Sorry I am a bit slow, but this is all very new thinking for me! Thank you very much, and regards, David >Each carrier would independently verify this with ATT. > >Stu No. Your home carrier will only roam on a carrier which it has an agreement with. For example, if my home carrier was ATT and I was roaming in Canada, I could roam on Rogers which has a roaming agreeement with ATT, but not with Microcell which does not. Even though Microcell's technology is compatible with Rogers, this does not matter. Conversely, T-Mobile USA has a roaming agreement with both Rogers and Microcell. A US T-Mobile user could both Rogers and Microcell. Stu > This is really counter-intuitive for me, but, in summary, what I think > I am understanding from you and C.F. is that if my home country [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > >Stu OK, Stu, I think I have finally got it! Thank you so much -- you guys are champs! >No. Your home carrier will only roam on a carrier which it has an agreement >with. For example, if my home carrier was ATT and I was roaming in Canada, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Stu David, What doesn't seem to have been mentioned.... IF you go "roaming" to a foreign country, be aware that "normally" your call charges will be more expensive whilst roaming, and you may even have to pay for INCOMING calls, whilst roaming. Check this out with your SP Cheers > OK, Stu, I think I have finally got it! > Thank you so much -- you guys are champs! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > >Stu > David, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Cheers Paying for incoming calls is no surprise to those of us in the U.S. Jesse Yes, I agree with Stuart. He summed it up pretty well. ===================================== > Your home carrier will only roam on a carrier which it has an agreement > with. For example, if my home carrier was ATT and I was roaming in Canada, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Stu >I have never used a GSM phone before; my questions are based only >upon [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > Thank you very much, in advance, for any clarification, > David The phone has to work on the frequency of the carrier you want to use. If your current phone does not have the correct frequency, you would transfer the SIM from your phone to a compatible phone in the foreign country. That phone has to be unlocked in order to accept your SIM. World phones are rather expensive. It would be better to rent a compatible phone in the foreign country and use your SIM if you want to be reached by people from back home. If you do not care about that, rent the phone with a local SIM already installed with a local number for that country. If you already have a world phone, you just have to turn it on in the foreign country and if there is a reachable roaming partner, you will have service. Some U.S. carriers require you to be a customer for a period of time before they will let you roam internationally. Your bill can be thousands of dollars if you accept calls to and from your home market. Unanswered calls which are routed to voicemail carry a charge also if you connected to the local carrier. It may take a period of time before they drop you if you go out of range or turn off your phone.  SignatureEarl F. Parrish Thank you Earl, interesting! I see now that there is something else that I really need to understand: Is there someplace that I can see exactly what is included on a SIM? (Not the bits, just what information.) I think that will clarify a lot of things for me. Regards, David >The phone has to work on the frequency of the carrier you want to >use. If your current phone does not have the correct frequency, you [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >if you connected to the local carrier. It may take a period of time >before they drop you if you go out of range or turn off your phone. >I see now that there is something else that I really need to >understand: Is there someplace that I can see exactly what is >included on a SIM? (Not the bits, just what information.) I think >that will clarify a lot of things for me. A SIM contains the necessary stuff for the network to recognize you and allow you to make and receive calls. In addition the SIM holds your phone book information as well as holds SMS messages. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - remove NONO from .NONOcom to reply |
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