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Cellular Phone Forum / General / General Topics / June 2004911 from a mobile is not reliable: KIRO reports 2 of 30 calls are handled correctly
Emergency Calls Reach Wrong 911 Center Wayne Havrelly KIRO 7 Consumer Investigator UPDATED: 10:18 AM PDT May 18, 2004 When you make a 911 call, seconds can mean the difference between life and death. If you use a cell phone, we discovered the 911 operator might not know where you are. <snip> With the help of emergency officials and cell phone providers, we tested a local 911 system. We checked out a problem one of our viewers experienced -- a problem that cost him precious minutes during a recent emergency. Scott Manard spotted a terrible accident and stopped to help. "This poor guy was in severe pain and in need of medical attention," Manard said. (He) called 911 on his cell phone, but the operator wasn't familiar with the highway he was on. After being on hold several minutes, the 911 operator gave him a number to call in Eastern Washington. "I said 'I'm in Western Washington. Why are you giving me that number?' She said 'Well, where are you?' I'd already told her where I was, I said, 'Kitsap County is in Western Washington,' and she was stunned!" The confused 911 operator was several counties away! Fortunately, someone with a 2-way radio drove by and alerted a nearby fire department. The victim survived, but he's still in the hospital after almost three months. <snip> Out of the 30 calls we made, only two made it the correct 911 center. By the end of this year most 911 centers will have equipment to better pinpoint where the calls are coming from. <snip> So when you call 911, tell the operator what county you're in -- just in case the information on the screen they're looking at is wrong. Copyright 2004 by KIROTV.com. http://www.kirotv.com/consumer/3315808/detail.html In article <f90c7f43.0405250915.7632dcb2@posting.google.com>, johnbartley@email.com (John Bartley I solved my XP problems w/ Service Pack Linux) wrote: > So when you call 911, tell the operator what county you're in -- just > in > case the information on the screen they're looking at is wrong. And if You're in New Mexico they might refuse to help you claiming you're not in the United States. I just read someone in Massaschusetts called 911 and got Minnesota so they coudnt report an accident they saw >Emergency Calls Reach Wrong 911 Center >Wayne Havrelly KIRO 7 Consumer Investigator [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >http://www.kirotv.com/consumer/3315808/detail.html First off... Calls to 911 follow routing set by the FCC... ROuting is not based on your physical location, rather on the location of the site and/or controller you are registred on... Example you live in Lakeland FL, on the edge of town... The site you connect through from your home is located outside the city limits... Your 911 call from your handset will/must be routed to the County 911 center... Not metro Lakeland... Federal regulations... Second, if you ever personally expereince such a failure as was demonstrated... ie cannot properly connect to 911, when you have any network available... contact you carrier immediately from the same or as near to same location... Federal regulations requires misrouting, or failures to be responded to within a very short period... Call report failure or problems, so then can be corrected... > I just read someone in Massaschusetts called 911 and got Minnesota so > they coudnt report an accident they saw [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > > >http://www.kirotv.com/consumer/3315808/detail.html Somewhere around 25 May 2004 10:15:46 -0700, John Bartley I solved my XP problems w/ Service Pack Linux was brave enough to write: >Emergency Calls Reach Wrong 911 Center >Wayne Havrelly KIRO 7 Consumer Investigator [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >and death. If you use a cell phone, we discovered the 911 operator >might not know where you are. I have had to make two 911 calls and both worked perfectly. Granted I am in a major metro area and that may be part of the reason. >Out of the 30 calls we made, only two made it the correct 911 center. >By the end of this year most 911 centers will have equipment to better >pinpoint where the calls are coming from. This is where I have a problem. They made 30 FAKE calls to an emergency service. Isn't some law against this sort of thing? <smile> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I started out with nothing & still have most of it left. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tnpnr@mind+spring.com remove the + >>Out of the 30 calls we made, only two made it the correct 911 center. >>By the end of this year most 911 centers will have equipment to better >>pinpoint where the calls are coming from. > > This is where I have a problem. They made 30 FAKE calls to an > emergency service. Isn't some law against this sort of thing? <smile> Part of what you snipped said: With the help of emergency officials and cell phone providers, we tested a local 911 system. :) Somewhere around Wed, 26 May 2004 14:50:10 GMT, ekk was brave enough to write: >>>Out of the 30 calls we made, only two made it the correct 911 center. >>>By the end of this year most 911 centers will have equipment to better [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > With the help of emergency officials and cell phone providers, we > tested a local 911 system. Now that I am awake , you are correct. Just reread it and all that can be said is , my bad. <smile> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tnpnr@mind+spring.com remove the + This is because in each state or area, the cellular 911 calls go to a different organization. In central Ohio where I live, they go to the sheriff's dept who then routes them to the correct police or fire. What do people expect? When you are mobile, the 911 routing system has no idea what emergency you have until you TELL someone. >Emergency Calls Reach Wrong 911 Center >Wayne Havrelly KIRO 7 Consumer Investigator [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >http://www.kirotv.com/consumer/3315808/detail.html Typical for a media outlet reporting HALF of the story...... People have NO IDEA how a 911 call center works. With various cellular services scattered across the country, and the way boundaries are drawn for 911 service, unless you TELL THE 911 operator WHERE you are, they won't be able to route the call correctly. Until either GPS, or the ANI/ALI catches up with wireless telephones, there isn't any way to track a 911 call. I've been a 911 operator for over a dozen years. On the ANI/ALI screen for a wired call, it displays the phone number, the registered owner, their address, the agency which provides police, fire, ambulance service right on the screen. But, on a wireless phone, it only displays the wireless number, along with the tower the call is coming from. >>Emergency Calls Reach Wrong 911 Center >>Wayne Havrelly KIRO 7 Consumer Investigator [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >><snip > you are, they won't be able to route the call correctly. Until either > GPS, or the ANI/ALI catches up with wireless telephones, there isn't At least some of the wireless carriers have had the necessary technology for a couple of years now, pioneered by Sprint, which indeed put GPS reception into its phones back in 2002. (Sprint's system actually combines GPS reception with cell-site triangulation in order to compute a location quickly and accurately even within buildings or inter-building "canyons.") The delay in providing this service is primarily due to 911 centers, which must levy taxes or allocate budget to buy and install new software (and maybe new hardware as well). Wireline carriers then have to be ordered to provide the proper data connectivity between the wireless carriers and the 911 centers. Money is often the sticking point. In one case, a county actually levied a tax specifically to upgrade 911 centers for this purpose, but then the county blew the money on something else, essentially to cover a typical bloated-budget deficit. And the politicians who did this weren't even sorry for their criminal misappropriation of funds! In another case, a wireline carrier demanded that the wireless carriers pay for the data connectivity to the 911 centers--even though the wireless carriers had already spent $billions to implement the new locating system. >(Sprint's system actually combines GPS >reception with cell-site triangulation in order to compute a location >quickly and accurately even within buildings or inter-building "canyons.") Actually - NONE of the carriers use any form of GPS in the handset. <--- that's PERIOD -- John S. e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net > >(Sprint's system actually combines GPS > >reception with cell-site triangulation in order to compute a location [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that's > PERIOD Is that their childish way of protesting having to include a GPS chip in their phones? Like the car makers when they were forced forced to include seatbelts? Make sure they were klunky and near unuseable? >Is that their childish way of protesting having to include a GPS chip in >their phones? Actually it was the public outcry about "Big Brother" knowing where you are. Yet the passive system developed and in use still allows them to know where you are. There are several phones on the market that include GPS capabilities but none of them are necessary for 911 locator use. -- John S. e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net >>Is that their childish way of protesting having to include a GPS chip in >>their phones? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >There are several phones on the market that include GPS capabilities but none >of them are necessary for 911 locator use. More than "several" phones. AFAIK, ALL phones currently sold by Verizon Wireless have the aGPS hardware. Whether they have equipped their cell sites with the corresponding equipment, not to mention the relevant e911 center provisioning, is another matter. The best that seems to be available now to the E911 center is the location and sector of the tower handling the cell phone. > >Is that their childish way of protesting having to include a GPS chip in > >their phones? > > Actually it was the public outcry about "Big Brother" knowing where you are. I dont think so. Every phone I know has a setting to turn off GPS, nothing for the public to fear, just Cellular Companies digging in their heels against progress. >The delay in providing this service is primarily due to 911 centers, which >must levy taxes or allocate budget to buy and install new software (and >maybe new hardware as well). This is the problem exactly. ALL of the carriers now have the necessary equipment in place to identify the location of the caller. It is the 911 call centers that haven't all done their part in installing what they need to install! >Wireline carriers then have to be ordered to >provide the proper data connectivity between the wireless carriers and the 911 >centers The Wireline carriers have nothing to do with this situation. Their participation is not necessary. -- John S. e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net > What do people expect? When you are mobile, the 911 routing system > has no idea what emergency you have until you TELL someone. How is this different from a wireline 911 call? *Any* call to 911, from *any* source, could be either a fire or a police emergency. >How is this different from a wireline 911 call? *Any* call to 911, from >*any* source, could be either a fire or a police emergency. Or medical...... Or any of a myriad of other EMERGENCY situations. -- John S. e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net or barking dog call, wanting to know why the tornado sirens are going off (during a tornado WARNING), asking for directions to Bass Pro Shops......I've had these questions asked on the 911 line over the years. >>How is this different from a wireline 911 call? *Any* call to 911, from >>*any* source, could be either a fire or a police emergency. > >Or medical...... Or any of a myriad of other EMERGENCY situations. |
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