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Cellular Phone Forum / General / General Topics / August 2004

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What can one make mobile phone anti-radiation shield from?

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Mark Hamptons - 21 Jul 2004 12:55 GMT
Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.

Levi's Dockers jeans were brought out with an anti-radiation pocket,
shielded with a metallic mesh material.  I am looking for something similar.

Excuse my naivety, but are any easily available household products such as
aluminium foil of any use here?

Basically I just need a phone sized flat sheet of something to slip into the
case and reflect/absorb the radiation.

Please note, I am not looking for my fears to be questioned here.  I am
director of a mobile phone company and know more than enough to know it is
worth being safe just in case this is harmful.

Thanks to anyone who can provide helpful info.

:)
R?bert M. - 21 Jul 2004 13:15 GMT
> Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
> electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Thanks to anyone who can provide helpful info.

Unless your phone is sitting in your crotch for hours on end during
calls, there is no problem.
Stephen (Sausagefans.com) - 21 Jul 2004 13:24 GMT
> Unless your phone is sitting in your crotch for hours on end during
> calls, there is no problem.

I'm sure I saw something on news 24 a while ago which suggested
otherwise.  Personally I've employed a old person to follow me round and
carry my phone.
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R?bert M. - 21 Jul 2004 14:25 GMT
> > Unless your phone is sitting in your crotch for hours on end during
> > calls, there is no problem.
>
> I'm sure I saw something on news 24 a while ago which suggested
> otherwise.  Personally I've employed a old person to follow me round and
> carry my phone.

Sounds like you're the old person with the faulty memory.
Stephen (Sausagefans.com) - 21 Jul 2004 14:29 GMT
> > I'm sure I saw something on news 24 a while ago which suggested
> > otherwise.  Personally I've employed a old person to follow me round and
> > carry my phone.
>
> Sounds like you're the old person with the faulty memory.

Sounds like your posts make little sense.
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Joe - 21 Jul 2004 14:54 GMT
thought your post was hiliarious by the way :)
Stephen (Sausagefans.com) - 21 Jul 2004 15:52 GMT
> thought your post was hiliarious by the way :)

Whos?
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Steve Terry - 21 Jul 2004 20:16 GMT
> > Unless your phone is sitting in your crotch for hours on end during
> > calls, there is no problem.
>
> I'm sure I saw something on news 24 a while ago which suggested
> otherwise.  Personally I've employed a old person to follow me round
> and carry my phone.

I've employed a 20 year old Lithuanian au-pair blond nymphomaniac to carry mine
;-)

Steve Terry
Stephen (Sausagefans.com) - 21 Jul 2004 21:23 GMT
> I've employed a 20 year old Lithuanian au-pair blond nymphomaniac to carry mine
> ;-)

Yes but I upgraded from the 20-year old Lithuanian au-pair blond
nymphomaniac bloke for a much dear old woman!
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Clueless2 - 21 Jul 2004 21:34 GMT
> Yes but I upgraded from the 20-year old Lithuanian au-pair blond
> nymphomaniac bloke for a much dear old woman!

I see you have trained the wife to carry your mobile then?
Stephen (Sausagefans.com) - 22 Jul 2004 09:22 GMT
> I see you have trained the wife to carry your mobile then?

Yeah sorry, do you want your wife back now?
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Steve Terry - 22 Jul 2004 00:38 GMT
> > I've employed a 20 year old Lithuanian au-pair blond nymphomaniac to carry mine
> > ;-)
>
> Yes but I upgraded from the 20-year old Lithuanian au-pair blond
> nymphomaniac bloke

I thought you liked your sausages too much!

> for a much dear old woman!

You found an old dear who'll do anything for a pound of chipolatas then?

Steve Terry
Stephen (Sausagefans.com) - 22 Jul 2004 09:22 GMT
> > Yes but I upgraded from the 20-year old Lithuanian au-pair blond
> > nymphomaniac bloke
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> >
> You found an old dear who'll do anything for a pound of chipolatas then?

The world is full of them! :-)
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Pete - 21 Jul 2004 13:30 GMT
>Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
>electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.
>
>Levi's Dockers jeans were brought out with an anti-radiation pocket,
>shielded with a metallic mesh material.  I am looking for something similar.

Ah so thats why all those kids wear their jeans crotches so low. It
must be all that lead weighting they use.

Seriously though. I doubt the radiation from a phone outstrips the
ambiet radiation of your environment and it is probably only whilst
the phone is broadcasting that radiation levels peak?

I'm suprised that as a director of a mobile phone company you don't
have access to such protectors or can't pull one apart to see how its
constructed?

As to aluminum foil or other metals I was wondering if they actually
reduce the field strength or induce capacitance requiring your phone
to pump out even more radiation to keep the singnal alive.

Still as you say you've got to keep your family jewels safe.

Pete
SteveH - 21 Jul 2004 14:31 GMT
> As to aluminum foil or other metals I was wondering if they actually
> reduce the field strength or induce capacitance requiring your phone
> to pump out even more radiation to keep the singnal alive.
>
> Still as you say you've got to keep your family jewels safe.

Right, if it's that bad, I'm going to sit with my 3G phone on my lap for
the next week or so, hopefully that'll bypass the need for a painful
operation ;-)
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VK3XEM - 21 Jul 2004 14:52 GMT
Yes, seriously if you are trying to reflect the power away from your person
it is quite likely reflecting the signal away from the base station.  As a
result the phone will increase power to compensate, so really what is the
point of that?

If you are worried about RF radiation simply remove the phone from your belt
during a call and hold it at arms length, using a portable hands free kit.
1, you are keeping it as far away from you as possible and 2, the phone will
work more effectively and require less transmit power.

Don't bother worrying about it being on your belt the rest of the time as it
doesn't transmit very often on standby.

Simple, don't bother stuffing around with bullshit radiation shields as they
affect the operation of the phone resulting in higher power being used.  In
effect increasing your supposed risk and decreasing your talk-time!

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.

> > As to aluminum foil or other metals I was wondering if they actually
> > reduce the field strength or induce capacitance requiring your phone
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> the next week or so, hopefully that'll bypass the need for a painful
> operation ;-)
Clueless2 - 21 Jul 2004 14:02 GMT
> Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
> electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.

Unless you are using a CDMA phone, why do yout think this is necessary with
a GSM phone? In idle mode, the GSM phone only transmit a few bursts very
infrequently (typically hours) to send its location update to the
base-station. Of course if you are moving across the location boundaries
than there will be more location updates to transmit.

OTOH, if you use a hand's free headset with the phone clipped to your  belt
holster than this is a concern you may wish to explore more fully.

> Basically I just need a phone sized flat sheet of something to slip into the
> case and reflect/absorb the radiation.

I would question the effectiveness of a shield with the same footprint as
the phone. Have you consider that the RF raditation can bend round objects?

To absorb the radiation is unrealistic because even if such material exists
(and effective in such small area/volume) it would render your mobile phone
pretty useless. I don't think there is much call for a mobile phone whose
transmission cannot reach the base-station.

> Please note, I am not looking for my fears to be questioned here.  I am
> director of a mobile phone company and know more than enough to know it is
> worth being safe just in case this is harmful.

Then you should know the above points already!
CharlesH - 21 Jul 2004 19:02 GMT
>> Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
>> electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>base-station. Of course if you are moving across the location boundaries
>than there will be more location updates to transmit.

A CDMA phone in idle mode turns on the receiver once every 2.56 seconds
or so to listen for a page, and the transmitter very infrequently to
re-register when requested by the cell site. Particularly when it is
in its home area, and the phone hasn't moved, this is also on the order
of hours.
Clueless2 - 21 Jul 2004 19:32 GMT
> >Unless you are using a CDMA phone, why do yout think this is necessary with
> >a GSM phone? In idle mode, the GSM phone only transmit a few bursts very
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> in its home area, and the phone hasn't moved, this is also on the order
> of hours.

I have no first hand experience with a CDMA phone hence I was trying to
restrict my comments to a GSM phone which I happened to know alot about.
Jon - 21 Jul 2004 14:43 GMT
mark@hamptonsNOEMAIL.net had a brainwave and did spout the following:
> Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
> electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.

Why?

> Levi's Dockers jeans were brought out with an anti-radiation pocket,
> shielded with a metallic mesh material.  I am looking for something similar.

These actually forced the mobile to operate at a vastly increased power
level due to the EM shielding. Not a good idea.

> Excuse my naivety, but are any easily available household products such as
> aluminium foil of any use here?

Only if you want your mobile to Tx at full tilt all the time.

> Please note, I am not looking for my fears to be questioned here.  I am
> director of a mobile phone company and know more than enough to know it is
> worth being safe just in case this is harmful.

Do you also intend to shield your TV?
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Joe - 21 Jul 2004 14:56 GMT
In answer to your question lead is the most effective shield for radiation,
as this is what radiation bunkers are made of plus many feet of concrete.
Clueless2 - 21 Jul 2004 15:09 GMT
> In answer to your question lead is the most effective shield for radiation,
> as this is what radiation bunkers are made of plus many feet of concrete.

Hmm, try walking around with a lead lined concrete bunker in your pocket!
All the weirdoes will think that you are pleased to see them!!! Mind you,
this is probably something the younger generations will die for!
Jon - 21 Jul 2004 17:28 GMT
"Joe" <joe_g_g(spam)@hotmail.com> had a brainwave and did spout the
following:
> In answer to your question

Who's question? You haven't quoted any text so no-one knows who you're
replying to!
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Notan - 21 Jul 2004 17:38 GMT
> <snip>
>
> Please note, I am not looking for my fears to be questioned here.  I am
> director of a mobile phone company and know more than enough to know it is
> worth being safe just in case this is harmful.

Your fears *have to* be questioned.

If you're really that concerned with gonadal exposure, why not just use
a sock to enhance your manliness, rather than your phone, and wear your
phone on your belt, like the rest of us? <g>

Sorry, but this topic has been discussed, ad nauseum.

I hope you're not serious.

Notan
Ian Edwards - 21 Jul 2004 18:15 GMT
> Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
> electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.
>
> Levi's Dockers jeans were brought out with an anti-radiation pocket,
> shielded with a metallic mesh material.  I am looking for something similar.

Personally I'm not worried about mobile 'phone emissions, but if you
want to part with £34, look here:-

http://www.microshield.co.uk/~specification.html

Write up about the potential dangers and special offer (-£5) to readers
for the same case here:-

http://www.iconmag.co.uk/mobile_phones1.htm

Signature

Ian Edwards

Jon S Green - 21 Jul 2004 18:50 GMT
> Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
> electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.
>
> Levi's Dockers jeans were brought out with an anti-radiation pocket,
> shielded with a metallic mesh material.  I am looking for something similar.

Fine, provided you don't want to receive any calls.  If your phone can't
tramsmit *out*, how on Earth do you expect it to receive calls *in*?

Jon
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Jim - 22 Jul 2004 02:32 GMT
>Excuse my naivety, but are any easily available household products such as
>aluminium foil of any use here?

Why don't your try baloney?

Jim
Tariq Atchia - 22 Jul 2004 10:51 GMT
> Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
> electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.

> Levi's Dockers jeans were brought out with an anti-radiation pocket,
> shielded with a metallic mesh material.  I am looking for something similar.

It won't/shouldn't get any signal with such shielding, so why not just
switch the phone off/remove the battery for the same effect?

Tariq
Matthew Haigh - 22 Jul 2004 11:17 GMT
>Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
>electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.
>
>Levi's Dockers jeans were brought out with an anti-radiation pocket,
>shielded with a metallic mesh material.  I am looking for something similar.

If you really must, then try

http://www.lessemf.com/personal.html

>Please note, I am not looking for my fears to be questioned here.  I am
>director of a mobile phone company and know more than enough to know it is
>worth being safe just in case this is harmful.

TBH, being director of a company doesn't show you have any technical
knowledge, just (hopefully) some business skills. Mobile Phone Companies
range from manufacturers through to market stall holders selling
fascias, so that doesn't show any knowledge of potential RF problems
either. If you are Technical Director at Nokia (or Motorola, or SE...)
then you may have the knowledge. MD of a ringtone company or retailer
doesn't automatically infer any tech ability whatsoever. This isn't a
criticism of you, just saying that if you want to use your position to
demonstrate your ability, you need to give more info.

It is better to be safe than sorry, but unless you are physically moving
the phone away from your body you won't achieve much due to the power
management features of the phone (as others have said - shielding the
phone only increases it's power output, defeating your purpose).

Matt
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GCRSoft, providing SMS solutions since 1996...
http://www.gcrsoft.com  http://www.moretext.com

ChrisM - 22 Jul 2004 11:26 GMT
> >Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
> >electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Matt

Wow, must get myself a pair of 'Conductive Socks'!!!
The Wizard - 27 Jul 2004 06:56 GMT
> > >Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
> > >electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Wow, must get myself a pair of 'Conductive Socks'!!!

Nah...A lead suit of armour to protect us from satellite waves,Radar and all
the other radio waves bombarding us will do the trick.
Remember also to bin yer microwave oven. ;-))
The Wizard - 27 Jul 2004 06:53 GMT
> >Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
> >electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> management features of the phone (as others have said - shielding the
> phone only increases it's power output, defeating your purpose).

Heh! How many people take all that care with mobile phones but still go in
their kitchen and nuke their food with a Microwave.

Way back my father told me rumours went around that TV signals being
bombarded to our home could steralise men and make women infertile.

(God help us now with Satellite signals then,Does this mean special lead
headgear will be the new fashion?)

Come to think it the radiation from the TV screen (or monitor) is worse *Low
Radiations screens* as their called is just manufacturers blurb to sell more
than standard types!

> Matthew Haigh --$matthaigh{News06}$@haigh.org--
> GCRSoft, providing SMS solutions since 1996...
> http://www.gcrsoft.com  http://www.moretext.com
hairydog@despammed.com - 27 Jul 2004 09:30 GMT
>Heh! How many people take all that care with mobile phones but still go in
>their kitchen and nuke their food with a Microwave.

Indeed. A non-faulty microwave is allowed to leak far more RF than a
mobile phone at full power.

>Way back my father told me rumours went around that TV signals being
>bombarded to our home could steralise men and make women infertile.

I doubt that's possibly true, unless you live VERY near a transmitter

>(God help us now with Satellite signals then,Does this mean special lead
>headgear will be the new fashion?)

Satellite signals are incredibly weak: about a half millionth of the
signal from a terrestrial TV transmitter.

>Come to think it the radiation from the TV screen (or monitor) is worse *Low
>Radiations screens* as their called is just manufacturers blurb to sell more
>than standard types!

Different sort of radiation: the problem radiations for screens are
not radio frequency, and they were a real health concern, but all are
now low radiation, AFAIK.

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the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones
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Martin? - 28 Jul 2004 01:47 GMT
> >Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
> >electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.

About 2 feet of high density concrete should do it ;-)
Regards,
Martin
Carl. - 28 Jul 2004 04:44 GMT
> > >Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
> > >electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.
> > >
> About 2 feet of high density concrete should do it ;-)
> Regards,
> Martin

I disagree.  I have had my phone signal blocked by as little as 8 inches of
concrete, so a pair of size 48" pants with a few bricks tucked in the
waistband ought to do it.
Martin? - 29 Jul 2004 02:17 GMT
Carl:
>I disagree.  I have had my phone signal blocked by as little as 8 inches of
>concrete, so a pair of size 48" pants with a few bricks tucked in the
>waistband ought to do it.

Just because your phone doesn't work it doesn't mean there isn't some
radiation remaining.
Better safe then sorry - 2ft of high density concrete is sure to protect the
OP's jewels.
Regards,
Martin
Steve Terry - 29 Jul 2004 03:01 GMT
> Carl:
> >I disagree.  I have had my phone signal blocked by as little as 8 inches of
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Regards,
> Martin

Trousers made out of 2ft thick concrete sound a little impractical?

Steve Terry
Notan - 29 Jul 2004 03:13 GMT
> > Carl:
> > >I disagree.  I have had my phone signal blocked by as little as 8 inches of
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> >
> Trousers made out of 2ft thick concrete sound a little impractical?

Why?

Notan
Steve Terry - 29 Jul 2004 03:22 GMT
> > > Carl:
> > > >I disagree.  I have had my phone signal blocked by as little as 8 inches of
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Why?
> Notan

Just a wild guess, but you don't have much of a sex life do you?

Steve Terry
Ivor Jones - 29 Jul 2004 03:34 GMT
[snip]

> > > Trousers made out of 2ft thick concrete sound a little impractical?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Just a wild guess, but you don't have much of a sex life do you?
> Steve Terry

Don't you usually take your trousers off for that..??!!

Ivor
Notan - 29 Jul 2004 05:48 GMT
> > > > Carl:
> > > > >I disagree.  I have had my phone signal blocked by as little as 8 inches
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> >
> Just a wild guess, but you don't have much of a sex life do you?

Actually, it's pretty good, although I tend to be on the bottom,
more often than not. <g>

Notan
Carl. - 29 Jul 2004 03:35 GMT
> > Carl:
> > >I disagree.  I have had my phone signal blocked by as little as 8 inches of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Steve Terry

Not for Sunday pants.  Day of rest and all that.
Mark Hamptons - 22 Jul 2004 12:57 GMT
To the many of you who replied stating that if it shields the phone then the
signal cannot get out meaning the battery power will drain as it tries to
compensate, or I may as well turn the phone off, I think you missed the bit
below where I put:

> Hi, I have a mobile phone belt holster, and would like to place an
> electro-magnetic radiation shield between the phone and my vital organs.

"BETWEEN" the phone and me.  Not AROUND the phone, or OUTSIDE the phone.
BETWEEN.  The holster would just have the mesh on 1 back wall of 4.  The
other 3 walls would allow the phone to communicate normally, but at least
some of the radiation would be prevented from travelling directly into me.
Geddit?

> Levi's Dockers jeans were brought out with an anti-radiation pocket,
> shielded with a metallic mesh material.  I am looking for something similar.

To those of you who said this would have the same problem, Levi's were very
clear in pointing out the mesh only went between the user and the phone, not
around the phone pocket.  Therefore it would, and does, work fine just as my
requirement would.

> Basically I just need a phone sized flat sheet of something to slip into the
> case and reflect/absorb the radiation.

Thanks to Matthew Haigh for actually providing me a link to someone who
sells the mesh.  http://www.lessemf.com/personal.html

Sure, buying EMF socks is a bit silly, but directing questionable mobile
phone radiation that has not been given the all clear by many governments,
from entering my kidneys, liver, lungs and nether regions, is not in my
opinion silly.

> Please note, I am not looking for my fears to be questioned here.

Yet you all questioned my fears!  D'oh!!

We are all different people.  We all have different opinions.  'nuff said.
Thanks for the (few) constructive comments I received.

Mark
VK3XEM - 27 Jul 2004 08:39 GMT
I understand that you are not attempting to shield all around the phone!
The fact is, if the direction of the cell base is through you and you have a
shield that you are describing, then the phone WILL increase transmit power
to get to the base.

Radio waves do not magically go round corners (although some might like high
beams of a car headligt over a hill, but that's all).  Frequencies used by
GSM are line of sight.

Again the most effective way of using your phone and decreasing the transmit
power as much as possible is to use a portable hands free and when you
answer the phone take it off your belt and hold it at arm's length.  So if
you are really that worried, that is the best way to do it.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.

> To the many of you who replied stating that if it shields the phone then the
> signal cannot get out meaning the battery power will drain as it tries to
> compensate, or I may as well turn the phone off, I think you missed the bit
> below where I put:
Ar Fai Ve - 26 Jul 2004 08:50 GMT
> Please note, I am not looking for my fears to be questioned here.  I am
> director of a mobile phone company and know more than enough to know it is

Maybe you should question your fears.  Don't waste time trying to
shield yourself like this, especially when very thorough studies
show that there is no harm caused by cell phones or by cell phone
towers.  Seriously, there are larger sources of emission out there
bombarding you constantly, so you might as well hole up in
a lead impregnated concrete bunker if you really do fear RF
radiation.  What next - shield yourself from earth's magnetic
field and avoid any devices which contain electric motors?

Take a look at the info at this British site:

Basic info:
http://www.nrpb.org/press/information_sheets/mobile_telephony/index.htm

Technical info:
http://www.nrpb.org/publications/documents_of_nrpb/pdfs/doc_14_2.pdf
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I seem to remember seeing high performance microwave dishes that were
coated with horse hair to help focus RF signal. Horse hair would be
more comfortable than metal. It's been several years and I was just
getting into the communications business back then so I really don't
have details for you. I'm thinking that the hairs may have to be cut
to a specific wavelength of the RF signal.
 
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