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Cellular Phone Forum / General / General Topics / July 2004Sprint, Cingular, Verizon admit to worthless coverage maps.
http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=2069335 AUSTIN, Texas Under the terms of the agreement, Cingular Wireless, Sprint PCS and Verizon Wireless must provide customers with coverage-area maps that are as accurate as current technology allows; give consumers at least two weeks to terminate service contracts without incurring penalties; and change the way they advertise and sell services and coverage. http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=533 >http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=2069335 > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=533 In fact the carriers didn't "admit" to anything of the kind: 42. Carrier is entering into this Assurance solely for the purposes of settlement. Nothing contained in this Assurance may be taken as or construed to be an admission by Carrier or as evidence supporting any of the allegations raised by the Attorneys General, any matter of fact or law, any violation of state or federal law, or any other liability or wrongdoing whatsoever, including without limitation an admission by Carrier that any of its business practices are or have been unfair or deceptive, or violate or have violated any of the Consumer Statutes of any of the Participating States, all of which Carrier expressly denies.  SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular > >http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=2069335 > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Consumer Statutes of any of the Participating States, all of which > Carrier expressly denies. Of course thats what had to be agreed to to get a settlement. Navas, another Cellular apologist. Everyone but Navas and Smith accepts how worthless current coverage coverage maps are. >> In fact the carriers didn't "admit" to anything of the kind: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Of course thats what had to be agreed to to get a settlement. In other words, you were dishonest. >Navas, >another Cellular apologist. Nope. "Just the facts, nothing but the facts." >Everyone but Navas and Smith accepts how worthless current coverage >coverage maps are. Meaningless and irrelevant to your claim; in other words, just a sleazy attempt to divert attention from your dishonesty. Not even a nice try. No cigar. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > In other words, you were dishonest. No its the current maps that are dishonest, and quit shilling for Cingular. >> >> In fact the carriers didn't "admit" to anything of the kind: >> >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >No its the current maps that are dishonest, You were dishonest. What others may or may not have done is irrelevant to your conduct. >and quit shilling for >Cingular. I don't "shill" for anyone. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular In alt.cellular.sprintpcs "R?bert M." <rmarkoff@faq.city> wrote: > No its the current maps that are dishonest, and quit shilling for > Cingular. You're accusing someone else of shilling for Cingular? Funny. You like to complain on the SPCS newsgroup how much SPCS and ATTWS suck, and how Cingular sucks so much less. SignatureJustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/ Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED) Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids. > > >http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=2069335 > > > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Of course thats what had to be agreed to to get a settlement. Navas, > another Cellular apologist. How odd for one to read between the lines, but not the lines themselves. > How odd for one to read between the lines, but not the lines themselves. I suppose you aren't old enough to remember the U.S. apology in 1969 for the Pueblo intruding on North Korean waters in 1968. >> How odd for one to read between the lines, but not the lines themselves. > >I suppose you aren't old enough to remember the U.S. apology in 1969 for >the Pueblo intruding on North Korean waters in 1968. Now there's a bad and meaningless analogy. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular > >> How odd for one to read between the lines, but not the lines themselves. > > > >I suppose you aren't old enough to remember the U.S. apology in 1969 for > >the Pueblo intruding on North Korean waters in 1968. > > Now there's a bad and meaningless analogy. Not at all. > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Now there's a bad and meaningless analogy. It's my own fault for not adding him to the killfile after his first post. But it's never too late to learn. Not in support of anyone's opinion here, but most out-of-court settlements include a denial of liability. The fact one exists has little bearing on whether or not they do, in fact, use deceptive trade practices. > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > In fact the carriers didn't "admit" to anything of the kind: Of course, but the issue here is the false allegation in the Subject. >Not in support of anyone's opinion here, but most out-of-court settlements >include a denial of liability. The fact one exists has little bearing on [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >> In fact the carriers didn't "admit" to anything of the kind: SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular You're picking at nits. As a disinterested reader, I'd say the important point is that Sprint, et al, agreed to change their behavior. If it really wasn't egregious, they probably would have chosen to defend it. > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >include a denial of liability. The fact one exists has little bearing on > >whether or not they do, in fact, use deceptive trade practices. I disagree, on all counts. >You're picking at nits. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> >include a denial of liability. The fact one exists has little bearing on >> >whether or not they do, in fact, use deceptive trade practices. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular And Phillipe gets more creative with Subject lines once again ... For a more detailed report, including the list of states, here's another link - http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/040721/wireless_consumer_rights_2.html Bob > http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=2069335 > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=533 > And Phillipe gets more creative with Subject lines once again ... And Smith, the Sprint apologist won't admit. The coverage maps are worthless and hence the lawsuits and settlement. Read the PDFs, not some lame story thats a cut and paste from a press release. http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=533 "Røbert M." wrote: > > And Phillipe gets more creative with Subject lines once again ... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=533 Life, for you, at this point, probably won't get any better, what with the phone companies having been found guilty... Isn't that what you've lived for? I'd say it's a pretty good time for you to contemplate suicide. Notan > > > And Phillipe gets more creative with Subject lines once again ... > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I'd say it's a pretty good time for you to contemplate suicide. And this is supposed to excuse the cellular carriers, and their shills trying to spin this all into not meaningful? Sorry, I'll still be HERE for a while, enjoying my new PowerMac G5. "Røbert M." wrote: > > "Røbert M." wrote: > > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > And this is supposed to excuse the cellular carriers, and their shills > trying to spin this all into not meaningful? Nope, no excuse. Just a constructive suggestion. Notan > > > > > And Phillipe gets more creative with Subject lines once again ... > > > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Just a constructive suggestion. You are sick. No one else calls suicide constructive. PLONK On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:14:23 GMT, "Røbert M." <rmarkoff@faq.cIty> wrote: >> "Røbert M." wrote: >Sorry, I'll still be HERE for a while, enjoying my new PowerMac G5. I am more sorry than you. > >Sorry, I'll still be HERE for a while, enjoying my new PowerMac G5. > > I am more sorry than you. You'd prefer carriers continue their dishonest ways? http://columbus.bizjournals.com/columbus/stories/2004/07/19/daily16.html The rest of us are sorry about the worthless coverage maps the cellular carriers foist in consumers. And a particular irony is a Cingular Press Release today. After advertising their National GSM for months (years?) today they announce they finally have coverage in the Florida panhandle. http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040720/cltu028_1.html >> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:14:23 GMT, "Røbert M." <rmarkoff@faq.cIty> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> I am more sorry than you. >You'd prefer carriers continue their dishonest ways? I'd prefer to let the free market work. Government intervention is a generally bad idea. Since there is no monopoly here, intervention isn't warranted. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular > >> >Sorry, I'll still be HERE for a while, enjoying my new PowerMac G5. > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Government intervention is a generally bad idea. > Since there is no monopoly here, intervention isn't warranted. Yeah, stop inspected beef processing plants. Let the free market work. Sheesh. >> >> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:14:23 GMT, "Røbert M." <rmarkoff@faq.cIty> >> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Sheesh. The free market is in fact far more effective at policing food quality than government regulation, which does a truly pathetic job, while wasting a considerable amount of money. In other words, you need to come up with something a *lot* better than that. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular >> "Røbert M." wrote: >> > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >And this is supposed to excuse the cellular carriers, and their shills >trying to spin this all into not meaningful? It's not meaningful: $5 million isn't pocket change to cellular carriers. >Sorry, I'll still be HERE for a while, enjoying my new PowerMac G5. Are we supposed to be impressed by that? Sheesh. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular >In article <JkyLc.10904$Qu5.4971@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>, >> And Phillipe gets more creative with Subject lines once again ... > >And Smith, the Sprint apologist won't admit. The coverage maps are >worthless and hence the lawsuits and settlement. $5 million contribution to education by a multi-billion industry? Zippie do! The states sure didn't get much. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > $5 million contribution to education by a multi-billion industry? > Zippie do! The states sure didn't get much. We'll see what they get if Carriers think they can continue with current worthless maps. >> $5 million contribution to education by a multi-billion industry? >> Zippie do! The states sure didn't get much. > >We'll see what they get if Carriers think they can continue with current >worthless maps. Forgive me for not holding my breath. This is all pretty meaningless. Nothing for consumers that were claimed to have been hurt, and the $5 million is less than 0.01% of industry revenues. [yawn] SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular > > And Phillipe gets more creative with Subject lines once again ... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=533 I'm not apologizing for anyone troll boy ... In fact I provided a more comprehensive link, which included the states that were involved ... Sheesh Phillipe, maybe it's time that I remind everyone here ... in all these newsgroups of your posting history in the SPCS newsgroup and others, including those 114 different IDs used over the past year ... Bob Sorry Mr. Apologist. Personal Insults do not excuse the bad behavior of the Cellular Carriers who are now being closely watched by 31 State's Attorney Generals for compliance with the agreement. But typical of your lame attempts at obfuscation. > Sorry Mr. Apologist. Personal Insults do not excuse the bad behavior of > the Cellular Carriers who are now being closely watched by 31 > State's Attorney Generals for compliance with the agreement. > > But typical of your lame attempts at obfuscation. Sigh ... Obuscation, Lying, misquoting are your middle name Phillipe. Since you've want to continue this, it's time to share with the rest of the newsgroups your posting history in the SPCS newsgroup. 01) Your preference for lying ... 02) Your misquoting of other posters' messages and your confirmation you do that. 03) Your attempt to impersonate other posters here. 04) Your unmunging of email addresses so spambots can harvest them. 05) Your attempt to answer prior posts made in one ID with different IDs 06) Your attempt to moderate this group on what can or can't be said, and then hypocritically post the same words you allegedly abhor. 07) Your failure to answer simple questions asked to clarify your position here, when the truth comes out. 08) Your manufacturing of false facts and then sidestepping the issue with false circular reasoning. 09) Your complaints about people insulting you, and you creating insulting multiple subject threads. 10) Your stalking other posters via Google searches, and posting inaccurate search results 11) Last, but certainly not least, using AT LEAST 114 different IDs here to avoid kill filters of others. And this list keeps getting longer and longer ... # USENET ID EMAIL ADDRESS ISP IP 1st Appeared 001 Phillipe pfilm@yahoo.com EL 66.32.48.199 08/10/03 002 Richard R@R.com EL 66.32.48.182 08/29/03 003 DSL GURU dslguru@aol.com AOL 08/29/03 004 Phillipe . p8film@hotmail.com EL 66.32.48.182 09/08/03 005 P. Reality p16film@msn.com EL 66.32.48.182 09/09/03 006 Sprintposter sprintposter@aol.com AOL 09/09/03 007 PHil_Real phil_tape@email.org EL 66.32.48.182 09/16/03 008 P. sluice@juice.org EL 66.32.49.170 09/18/03 009 Patrick Bosley pBosley@msn.com EL 66.32.51.103 09/18/03 010 SprintPCSNews sprintpcsnews@aol.com AOL 09/18/03 011 Phill. pearl@oyster.com EL 66.32.49.170 09/19/03 012 Loving Moonlight lovingmoonlight@aol.com AOL 09/26/03 013 Phillipe2004 phil2004@sprent.com EL 66.32.49.170 10/06/03 014 Readnewsgroups readnewsgroups@aol.com AOL 10/06/03 015 Reginald phil2004@sprent.com EL 66.32.49.170 10/07/03 016 Ronald phil2004@sprent.com EL 66.32.49.170 10/07/03 017 Sprintinator sprent@sprent.com EL 66.32.49.170 10/07/03 018 Defective Merchandise at Stores sprent@sprent.com EL 66.32.49.170 10/07/03 019 Camile Cardenas cccardenas@netscape.com EL 66.32.50.218 10/07/03 020 Sergei Kosonov skosonov@institue.ru EL 66.32.48.84 10/08/03 021 Renaldo berler@rome.univ.it EL 66.32.50.88 10/10/03 022 LosAngelessLegal losangelesslegal@aol.com AOL 10/10/03 023 CAT0NHAT cat0nhat@aol.com AOL 10/11/03 024 Sunday Auto sundayauto@aol.com AOL 10/11/03 025 Monday Cellphone mondaycellphone@aol.com AOL 10/13/03 026 Sprint Truth sprinttruth@aol.com AOL 10/13/03 027 Posting Editor postingeditor@aol.com AOL 10/14/03 028 Sarah Morlan sarahmorlan@aol.com AOL 10/14/03 029 Bernard Sharri bernardsharri@aol.com AOL 10/15/03 030 Sanyo Guy sanyoguy@hotmail.com EL 66.32.51.103 10/21/03 031 Michael mfrazier2@mail.com EL 66.32.49.180 11/03/03 032 BlueTooth Now bluetoothnow@aol.com AOL 11/05/03 033 PTT ReadyLink pttreadylink@aol.com AOL 11/07/03 034 Thomas Aspland thomasaspland@aol.com AOL 11/08/03 035 Weekend Sunshine weekendsunshine@aol.com AOL 11/08/03 036 William Bays williambays@aol.com AOL 11/08/03 037 Carl Simmons csimmons@msn.com EL 66.32.49.180 11/11/03 038 J. Range jrange2@msn.com EL 66.32.49.180 11/12/03 039 Milton Searlis miltonsearlis@aol.com AOL 11/20/03 040 Alias for Smith aliasforsmith@aol.com AOL 11/21/03 041 Bob Veldrends bobveldrends@aol.com AOL 11/23/03 042 James Tullin jtullin23@yahoo.com EL 66.32.50.69 12/04/03 043 Tim Harrick tim233@hotmail.com EL 66.32.50.34 12/06/03 044 Chris McFarland ChrisMac@yahoo.com EL 66.32.51.239 12/09/03 045 Matthew Lindeen mlindeen@kryogenics.com EL 66.32.51.192 12/10/03 046 Dennis ddd456@mail.com EL 66.32.50.226 12/11/03 047 Stewart soconnor23@yahoo.com EL 66.32.51.248 12/11/03 048 David dlandsdowne@wsys.net EL 66.32.51.23 12/12/03 049 Joseph jlondon@london.com EL 66.32.48.147 12/14/03 050 Leonard lunderood@harton.com EL 66.32.51.250 12/14/03 051 Donald dwade84@earthlink.net EL 66.32.48.173 12/15/03 052 Jonathan jm1@brms.org EL 66.32.48.64 12/16/03 053 Carlos Z. czb@mts.net EL 66.32.50.172 12/17/03 054 Al amorgan@yahoo.com EL 66.32.48.90 12/28/03 055 A.M. amorgan@yahoo.com EL 66.32.48.90 12/31/03 056 HK HK22073@msn.com EL 66.32.49.221 01/07/04 057 James jkavanagh@msn.com EL 66.32.49.147 01/10/04 058 John S. jstorrs@msn.com EL 66.32.48.252 01/12/04 059 Robert M. markoff@msn.com EL 66.32.49.155 01/13/04 060 Cell Merger cellmerger@aol.com AOL 03/02/04 061 Sprint Secrets sprintsecrets@aol.com AOL 03/20/04 062 not at Adelphia rmarkoff@msn.com EL 66.32.49.237 03/30/04 063 not John Rigas rmarkoff@msn.com EL 66.32.49.237 03/31/04 064 Enchanter999 enchanter999@aol.com EL 66.32.50.224 04/07/04 065 Not at Web TV rmarkoff@msn.com EL 66.32.49.237 04/08/04 066 rmarkoff@msn.com rmarkoff@msn.com EL 66.32.49.237 04/14/04 067 Rob M. rmarkoff@msn.com EL 66.32.50.224 04/19/04 068 Robert M. rmarkoff@msn.com EL 66.32.50.224 04/19/04 069 Rob M. rmarkoff@msn.com EL 66.32.50.224 04/19/04 070 Bad Language by apologists rmarkoff@msn.com EL 66.32.50.224 04/26/04 071 Bob Smith - Liar smittie@msn.com EL 66.32.50.224 04/26/04 072 Robert markoff@msn.com EL 66.32.49.237 04/27/04 073 Nebby0007 nebby0007@aol.com AOL 04/29/04 074 Retention rmarkoff@msn.com EL 66.32.49.237 05/05/04 075 Biotin30 biotin30@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/05/04 076 Charles R. Chuck333@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/05/04 077 Chriss Russell sent me robert156@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/05/04 078 Paylor paylorx@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/05/04 079 reghis reghis@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/05/04 080 Richard M. rmmm@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/05/04 081 Robert M. robert156@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/05/04 082 Robert M. Rmm@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/05/04 083 Urban19 urban19@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/05/04 084 windsort windsort@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/05/04 085 Retention FAQ rmarkoff@msn.com EL 66.32.50.224 05/05/04 086 Donald X. Dx9@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/07/04 087 John W. JWW@internot.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/07/04 088 Phillipe LIVES PP9@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/07/04 089 Richard S. Rss@internit.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/07/04 090 Nebby00007 nebby00007@aol.com AOL 05/07/04 091 Bobby T bbt@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/08/04 092 Bobby B bba@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/08/04 093 Bobby A bba@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/08/04 094 Robert M Rmarkoff@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/09/04 095 R?bert M rmarkoff@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/11/04 096 **Retention** rmarkoff@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/13/04 097 Robert M. rmarkoff@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/13/04 098 R?bert M. rmarkoff@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/13/04 099 ***REPAIR FAQ *** ***REPAIRFAQ***@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/14/04 100 Rupert N rnarkoff@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/20/04 101 Nebby nebby00007@aol.compants AOL 05/20/04 102 -RETENTION- rmarkoff@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/20/04 103 **Executive Services** Executive@a.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/21/04 104 ** PORTABILITY** *portability@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/21/04 105 **FAQ** recall@yahoo.com EL 66.32.49.72 05/21/04 106 +=+ +=+ Gaq@faq.city EL 66.32.49.72 05/27/04 107 R?bert M. rmarkoff@faq.city EL 66.32.48.59 05/30/04 108 R?bert M. rmarkoff@faq.city EL 66.32.51.194 06/03/04 109 WiMax wimax@aol.com AOL 06/06/04 110 R??bert M. rmarkoff@faq.city EL 66.32.50.56 06/09/04 111 .com wimax0007@aol.com AOL 06/09/04 112 R??bert M. rmarkoff@faq.cIty EL 66.32.51.169 06/23/04 113 Rxbert M. rmarkoff@faq.cIty EL 66.32.50.168 07/05/04 114 Tim Ronson TimR66@msn.com EL 66.32.50.168 07/12/04 In article <bTQLc.11731$Qu5.10035@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Sorry Mr. Apologist. Personal Insults do not excuse the bad behavior of the Cellular Carriers who are now being closely watched by 31 State's Attorney Generals for compliance with the agreement. But typical of your lame attempts at obfuscation. Insulting me hardly makes Sprint, verizon or Cingular one nit better. > In article <bTQLc.11731$Qu5.10035@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>, > > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > But typical of your lame attempts at obfuscation. Insulting me > hardly makes Sprint, verizon or Cingular one nit better. More Obfuscation on your part Phillipe (or should I add those other 113 Ids as well). Those weren't insults, they were facts on your posts and posting style in the newsgroup. Bob In article <bTQLc.11731$Qu5.10035@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Sorry you are so obscessed. Personal Insults do not excuse the bad behavior of the Cellular Carriers who are now being closely watched by 31 The Sprint, Verizon, and Cingular's bad behavior that resulted in 31 lawsuits by States Attorney General, and their promise to behave in the future is not changed by your opinion of any other poster. In alt.cellular "R?bert M." <rmarkoff@faq.city> wrote: > But typical of your lame attempts at obfuscation. Insulting me > hardly makes Sprint, verizon or Cingular one nit better. I just find it amusing that you love to slam Verizon but don't know squat about how they operate. Granted, I had enough trouble that I switched, and I'm not saying that they don't have problems. But what would you know about problems from a customer's perspective? You've never BEEN a Verizon customer! SignatureJustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/ Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED) Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids. > In alt.cellular "R?bert M." <rmarkoff@faq.city> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > about > problems from a customer's perspective? You've never BEEN a Verizon customer! I didnt say squat about how Verizon operates. I'm just commenting on yesterday's news. If you want to call that a slam on Verizon, then it's you who calling the news a slam on Verizon. I just think any improvement in coverage maps is long overdue. <http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1293&e=6&u=/ap/20040721 /ap_on_bi_ge/wireless_consumer_rights&sid=95573418> "This and the California consumers' bill of rights show that elected officials and policy-makers have heard consumers and they're taking action to improve conditions in cell phone marketing, instead of waiting for the market to clean up its own act," said Janee Briesemeister, a senior policy analyst at Consumers Union. In alt.cellular "R?bert M." <rmarkoff@faq.city> wrote: > I didnt say squat about how Verizon operates. I'm just commenting on > yesterday's news. If you want to call that a slam on Verizon, then it's > you who calling the news a slam on Verizon. You didn't fixate on Verizon *this time.* There have been a number of other times when you have. OK, ATTWS is one thing, Sprint is one thing, you claim to have been customers of both; fine. You slamming Verizon seems silly to me. > I just think any improvement in coverage maps is long overdue. Be that as it may - I'm going to pass up any commentary on this, it's been discussed to death in other threads. SignatureJustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/ Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED) Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids. >Sorry Mr. Apologist. Personal Insults do not excuse the bad behavior of >the Cellular Carriers who are now being closely watched by 31 >State's Attorney Generals for compliance with the agreement. ROTFL! SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular > >Sorry Mr. Apologist. Personal Insults do not excuse the bad behavior of > >the Cellular Carriers who are now being closely watched by 31 > >State's Attorney Generals for compliance with the agreement. > > ROTFL! It's pitiful that you are such an apologist that you think the worthless coverage maps are a worth laughing about. >> >Sorry Mr. Apologist. Personal Insults do not excuse the bad behavior of >> >the Cellular Carriers who are now being closely watched by 31 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >It's pitiful that you are such an apologist that you think the worthless >coverage maps are a worth laughing about. To be clear, I'm laughing at your silly statements, not the coverage maps. ;-) SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > To be clear, I'm laughing at your silly statements, not the coverage maps. > ;-) Good cause everyone but you and a couple of other apologists realize how worthless Coverage maps are. Certainly 31 State's Attorney Generals do. >> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Good cause everyone but you and a couple of other apologists realize how >worthless Coverage maps are. Certainly 31 State's Attorney Generals do. Then why did they roll over for a measly $5 million and no restitution? SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular > >Good cause everyone but you and a couple of other apologists realize how > >worthless Coverage maps are. Certainly 31 State's Attorney Generals do. > > Then why did they roll over for a measly $5 million and no restitution? Cause it's election year and they want a settlement quick. >> >Good cause everyone but you and a couple of other apologists realize how >> >worthless Coverage maps are. Certainly 31 State's Attorney Generals do. >> >> Then why did they roll over for a measly $5 million and no restitution? > >Cause it's election year and they want a settlement quick. How silly. You are obviously clueless about this as well. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > You are obviously clueless about this as well. If the Carriers are so innocent why did they agree to oversight by the State Attorney Generals???? >> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >If the Carriers are so innocent why did they agree to oversight by the >State Attorney Generals???? Because it doesn't matter. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular Røbert M. wrote: > If the Carriers are so innocent why did they agree to oversight by the > State Attorney Generals???? Texas AG's office just implied a $1.67M tax to vzw... big deal.. JS > > If the Carriers are so innocent why did they agree to oversight by the > > State Attorney Generals???? > > Texas AG's office just implied a $1.67M tax to vzw... big deal.. Just wait. >> Røbert M. wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Just wait. For what? The End Of Cellular As We Know It? What a joke! SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular > > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Good cause everyone but you and a couple of other apologists realize how > worthless Coverage maps are. Certainly 31 State's Attorney Generals do. You mean the 31 AG's up for re-election? Hmmmmmm- wonder why this was settled now? Well, we all knew deceit and fraudulent ways were within the walls of these companies and it takes an article to figure that out? Please, why would a cellular company have a good legible coverage map...so they don't have to be liable for certain areas their not even sure about! O by the way...Verizon does have the best network around and I can make calls anytime and anywhere I am...so let the fraud continue and I'll be happy to keep paying them. No problem. > http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=2069335 > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=533 Well, its about time. Røbert M. wrote: > http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=2069335 > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=533 Røbert M. wrote: > http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=2069335 > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=533 Under what conditions? What phones? How much antenna gain? how tall of a subscriber? Inside of a car? outside of a car? Winter or summertime? I do this kind of thing for a living. Drawing realistic coverage maps for cellular would be *impossible*. If I was one of the cellular carriers in question I'd put out a map of where my towers were and where my *active* operation licenses were with no stupid shading, and let the subscribers draw their own conclusions. Oh, and where was T-Mobile on this list? They have the most unrealistic maps I've seen yet... JS > Oh, and where was T-Mobile on this list? They have the most unrealistic > maps I've seen yet... Ask your State's Attorney General. >> Oh, and where was T-Mobile on this list? They have the most unrealistic >> maps I've seen yet... > >Ask your State's Attorney General. When and where? Not to mention why? SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular The real jest: The maps are a disappointment, but not worthless. And Verizon already complies! The dr. a) Verizon already gives consumers at least two weeks to terminate (15 days, call it worry free) b) And the maps are a disappointment, and real coverage maps will be welcomed by all And concerning the fine print.... the settlement has fine print, the maps have fine print, the contracts have fine print and this is big businesses and do you think for a minute that they agreed to providing new maps because of the customers? No, they agreed to the map to put the settlement behind them. Business: is in the business of making money. Keep the customers "content" and continue to make money. They will not (no one in fact) will give the customers MORE, if it means less money. Remember how Verizon added the $15 activation fee: they did that for the customers? I was told they did it "because they could, why not, others have one". And the .45 a month they charge customers for a "verizon fee for porting investment/expenses" Verizon states that for every line they loose, they gain 10. So where is the cost of porting? 40 million customers x-times-x .45 cents per month is $18 Million dollars incremental income per month. The service is good, coverage is good, but all are interested in being profitable first, and customer service is high on the list, but not at the expense of #1. (in my opinion) the dr. > http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=2069335 > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagNews/release.php?id=533 > The service is good, >coverage is good, but all are interested in being profitable first, and >customer service is high on the list, but not at the expense of #1. The problem with that is ...?? I was with Hewlett-Packard Company back in the days when it was run by Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard, a company known for its high sense of ethics, fair play, concern for employees, and social responsibility. Of the top-ten objectives of the company, #1 was "be profitable". Without the profits, the company wouldn't exist, and the other objectives would be moot. If you haven't seen them, Verizon has better-than-average maps at http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController?requesttype=NEWREQUEST or from the home page | Support | Coverage Locator. > The real jest: The maps are a disappointment, but not worthless. And > Verizon already complies! The dr. > > b) And the maps are a disappointment, and real coverage maps will be > welcomed by all SignatureFrank Harris in San Francisco Could have used better colors. > If you haven't seen them, Verizon has better-than-average maps at http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController?requesttype=NEWREQUEST > or from the home page | Support | Coverage Locator. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > b) And the maps are a disappointment, and real coverage maps will be > > welcomed by all |
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