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Cellular Phone Forum / General / General Topics / May 2005When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?
May 12, 2005 Cellphone Hangup: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You? As More People Go Wireless, Patchwork of Call Centers Slows Locater System Upgrade Money Spent on Boots By ANNE MARIE SQUEO Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL In November 1993, Jennifer Koon, under attack by a vicious assailant, dialed 911 from her cellphone. But the dispatcher in upstate New York could only listen helplessly for 20 minutes as the 18-year-old, unable to give her exact location, was beaten, driven to an alley and shot to death. The technology wasn't available to find her. Almost 12 years later, more than half of the U.S. still lacks the technology to find cellphone callers in distress. Though the federal government is spending billions of dollars annually on homeland security, the 911 system that Americans rely on to report an emergency hasn't benefited. With the explosive growth of wireless technology, more than a third of the 190 million calls placed to 911 each year now come from cellphones. Even as some of the nation's biggest cellular carriers face a December deadline to upgrade their systems for 911 calls, many emergency-call centers won't be able to receive the data. Virtually all of the nation's 6,000 call centers can locate land-line phones, but only 41% of them can locate cellphones, public-safety officials say. And the situation is getting worse with the growing popularity of Internet-based phone services -- some of which can't access traditional 911 service. No federal agency has the authority to drive the local, state and federal governments, as well as dozens of wireless and local-phone companies, toward a solution. The cellular industry initially reacted slowly because of costs and liability concerns. Public-safety officials estimate it would take $8 billion and at least four more years to modernize the nation's 911 system for wireless calls. And that doesn't include the costs of updating the system to handle Internet phone services. Meanwhile, cash-strapped states have diverted funds earmarked for 911 to balance budgets and pay for unrelated items, including winter boots and dry cleaning for the New York State Police. While Congress passed a law last year to pay for some upgrades and stop the state raids on 911 money, President Bush, facing his own budget problems, has declined to fund that initiative. "These are front-burner challenges getting back-burner treatment," says Michael Copps, a commissioner at the Federal Communications Commission. "The government itself is still working on developing a nationwide plan. It just does not exist yet." According to the latest information compiled by the National Emergency Number Association, a nonprofit corporation focused on public-safety communications issues, only six states, plus the District of Columbia, have the technology in place to find 911 wireless callers from most places in the state. Three more are close to completion. Sixteen states, including New Jersey, Arizona and Ohio, have upgraded less than 10% of their counties, NENA says. Six of those states haven't finished a single county. Even within many states, coverage is uneven, with some counties and cities receiving upgrades while neighboring ones haven't. A modernized call center in the South Side of Chicago, for example, often helps locate cellphone callers in nearby cities where emergency operators lack the technology to do it themselves. Big Shift Part of the 911 problem is the result of a vast shift among consumers away from traditional fixed-line phones toward new technologies. Older phones are easy to find because they are plugged into the wall at a specific address and aren't moveable. When a 911 call is made from that number, the location automatically pops up on the computer screen in front of the call-center operator who answers. But consumers increasingly favor cellular and Internet services because they offer cheaper rates and greater mobility -- the very thing that makes callers difficult to find. About 6% of the nation's 182 million cellphone users have gotten rid of their home phones, according to industry analysts, who say the percentage will continue to rise. Technology offers two ways to pinpoint wireless callers. Global Positioning System satellites can be used to find the caller if cellphones are equipped with a special chip, and the local 911 center has been upgraded to receive specific latitude and longitude data. That's the system being used by Verizon Wireless, Nextel Communications Inc. and Sprint Corp. Two other major cellular companies, Cingular Wireless and T-Mobile USA, a unit of Deutsche Telecom AG, are using triangulation -- measuring the distance of a signal from three different cellphone towers -- to locate 911 callers. But these technologies face challenges. Cellular providers using GPS have to get their customers to buy a new phone equipped with a special computer chip for their location system to work. In March, a man died in a Long Island snowstorm after calling 911 from an older cellphone that couldn't transmit his coordinates, even though the local call center had satellite-locator technology. Triangulation has proved problematic in rural areas, where towers, if there are any, are often built in straight lines along highways. That makes it difficult to get three separate measures to locate a 911 caller. The FCC has set a year-end deadline for Verizon, Nextel and Sprint to upgrade nearly all their customers to GPS-enabled phones. But even if the companies persuade people with older phones to upgrade, no similar deadline has been set for local and state governments to get their equipment in place to handle such calls. And no federal agency has the jurisdiction to set one. Internet-phone services offer an entirely different host of problems. These services allow consumers in, say, Boise, Idaho, to get a phone number with a Boston area code, which raises questions about where a 911 call would be routed. Public-safety officials say new technology is needed to locate the call center nearest the Internet modem making the call, regardless of the phone number. Some Internet phone services don't let users connect to 911 or they route callers to nonemergency numbers. Earlier this year, a family in Houston with Internet phone service couldn't alert police that two armed robbers had forced their way into the family's home and shot both parents in the legs. When their daughter called 911, she could only get a recorded message to hang up and try a different phone. Later this month, the FCC is expected to require Vonage Holdings Corp., the nation's biggest Internet phone provider, and others to provide a direct connection to the 911 network, according to commission officials. To provide a similar level of 911 service as traditional phones, new Internet protocols need to be written to allow the transmission of location data in addition to the voice call. New switching equipment and routers are also needed. The cost would be far less than the wireless 911 upgrade. Several companies are offering middleman solutions to allow Internet phone companies to connect to 911 networks, and Verizon and SBC have said they'll begin offering some direct connections to the 911 networks they run to companies like Vonage. The difficulties involved in upgrading the system can partly be traced to 911's origin in the late 1960s, when AT&T still ran most of the country's phone service. In 1968, the company decided to make 911 a nationwide emergency number. At that time, Los Angeles County had 50 different phone numbers to reach the police; St. Louis had 32 for police and 57 for fire emergencies, according to the FCC. Because rescue services fell under local, not federal, oversight, officials in Washington left it to the cities to set up operator centers to receive calls to the new number. It took until the late 1990s before 96% of the U.S. had 911 service, but some 200 counties still don't. Calls to 911 are routed to the nearest emergency call center. Wireless 911 calls generally get routed based on their location when the call is made. Crowded Scene The breakup of Ma Bell made the picture even more complicated by spawning dozens of cellular and local-phone companies, all with a role to play in updating the 911 system. In 1996, the FCC called for upgrading the nation's entire system within five years to make it able to pinpoint cellphone callers to within about a 400-foot radius. But regulators didn't tell individual cellular companies and local officials how to accomplish this task, or pay for it. As a result, the deadline wasn't met. "The wireless carriers were saying, 'We can't do this, our industry is in its infancy and these costs will stifle growth,' " said Anthony Haynes, executive director of the Tennessee Emergency Communications Board. Carriers also worried about liability issues if a 911 call was lost. Congress indemnified them against this in 1999. Local-phone companies have presented obstacles, too. Excluded from FCC talks outlining the upgrades, some wanted to dictate the technology used in the upgrades to make it compatible with the older systems they already operated for wired phones. Others tried to profit from their role as middlemen between the wireless providers and call centers. In the greater Kansas City, Mo., area, for example, obtaining wireless 911 service from SBC Communications Inc., which provided regular 911 connections, would have cost an additional $2.5 million a year, says Greg Ballentine, the director of public safety there and president of the Association of Public-Safety Communications Officials. So officials opted to buy and manage their own system. An SBC spokesman said the company never made an official proposal for such service. Even when money has been earmarked for modernizing 911, it often has been used for other purposes. This has been true of funds generated by special fees for upgrading 911 that dozens of states have tacked onto consumers' monthly phone bills. New York has diverted more of these funds than any other state. It has assessed a fee on monthly phone bills for 911 upgrades since 1991, longer than most states, and has the biggest charge, up to $1.50. But in a March 2002 report, the state comptroller found that the New York State Police in 2001 spent money intended for 911 upgrades on items such as $4.66 million for vehicle leases and purchases, $1.2 million for maintenance of radio systems, $19,187 for winter boots and more than $500 for dry cleaning. State officials said all of the expenses were related to the state police's "public-safety mission," according to a response to the report. During a training exercise in 2003, Rochester public-safety officials determined police and fire units had responded ably to a simulated gas attack by terrorists at a park concert. According to the drill's script, the attack had been reported to authorities by a citizen with a cellphone. "What if the person calling was overcome by gas before he could tell them where he is?" asked David Koon, a New York state lawmaker, when briefed on the drill. Mr. Koon, the father of Jennifer, ran for office as an advocate of 911 reform after his daughter's death. (Her killer was eventually caught and sentenced to 37½ years to life in prison.) City officials conceded the call center wouldn't have been able to locate the caller because it lacked the proper technology. Rochester has since upgraded its 911 system. New York City's 911 problems came under scrutiny in January 2003, when four boys drowned after calling 911 from a sinking rowboat. Rescuers didn't start looking until 14 hours later because they couldn't pinpoint the location of the late-night call. New York City upgraded its 911 system to receive wireless location information last August. After nearly two years of wrangling, Congress in December 2004 approved the creation of a national oversight office to spearhead 911 upgrades and $250 million a year in federal grants to reward states that don't divert 911 funds to other purposes. At a conference in early March, officials from the Transportation and Commerce departments, which would have jointly run the new central office, said federal belt-tightening made it unlikely that the new funds or new office would materialize anytime soon. "We're stuck with what we've got," William Belote, chief of the Commerce Department's Emergency Planning and Public Safety Division, told the conference, noting there was only so much he could do with his current five-person staff. The budget deficit, he said, makes it "very, very challenging to get any additional money for the federal grant program." ----------------------------------------------------------------- May 12, 2005 Internet Calling's Downside: Failing to Link Callers to 911 Low-Cost Services Gain Popularity, But Regulators Have Concerns; Routed to Recorded Message By SHAWN YOUNG Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL When Cheryl Waller's seemingly healthy 3½-month-old daughter, Julia, suddenly stopped breathing in March, she immediately grabbed the phone and dialed 911. She repeatedly got a recording that began by saying, "If this is an emergency, hang up and dial 911." In a panic, Ms. Waller raced to a neighbor who called 911. But Julia was dead by the time help arrived. Ms. Waller, who lives in Deltona, Fla., with her husband and four other children, didn't get through to 911 because she was receiving her phone service from Vonage Holdings Corp., an Internet-based phone company that doesn't connect to 911 the way that most people have come to expect. "I think we lost our daughter because of this," says Ms. Waller, who says doctors attributed her daughter's death to sudden infant death syndrome. A Vonage spokeswoman says: "Our hearts go out to the Waller family. We are going to do everything possible to prevent this from happening again." Long a security blanket for callers, connecting with 911 service has become an issue with the advent of new technologies. Emergency operators, for example, don't always automatically know where a person is calling from when he or she dials 911 on a cellphone. But the 911 problem is particularly acute with some Internet-based phone service. Not only is it often difficult for operators to pinpoint where someone is calling from, but in some cases they never even reach a real 911 operator. That is because calls from some Internet-based phone services are relegated to what is essentially a second-class status compared with normal 911. Calls from these services sometimes ring at general or administrative numbers at emergency-call centers instead of connecting directly to 911 operators. In some places, those general numbers aren't staffed after normal business hours. Even when the calls are answered, the person on the other end may not be a trained emergency operator and can't see the caller's address automatically. Ms. Waller wound up at one of those non-emergency phone numbers. Regulators are growing increasingly concerned about the 911 problem. Attorneys general in Texas and Connecticut, where consumers also were unable to reach 911 in life-threatening emergencies, are now suing Vonage for deceptive advertising. They charge that Vonage -- the nation's largest Internet calling company with more than 650,000 customers -- doesn't properly alert customers to the shortcomings of its 911 service. The problem is also on the Federal Communications Commission's radar screen. As early as next week, the FCC could announce that it will require Internet-based phone companies like AT&T Corp'.s CallVantage and Verizon Communications Inc.'s Voicewing to offer full 911 service. The logistics of doing that are more complicated for some carriers than others. AT&T, for instance, also offers conventional service and can take advantage of its existing facilities in some areas. For all the affected companies, the process could take time and money. Lured by prices as low as $14.99 a month for 500 minutes of local and long-distance calling, more than a million people have replaced their conventional phones with Internet-based service -- and millions more are expected to follow in coming years, analysts say. But as Internet calling takes off, many consumers aren't fully aware of the 911 problem -- and don't know that among the various Internet-calling services, there are some big differences. For example, cable companies, some of which also offer Internet-based calling, don't have the same problems with 911. That is because the customer's phone number is linked to an actual address. (As with all Internet-based calling, however, the service won't work if the power goes out or if the user's Internet connection is down.) Permanent solutions to the problem are complicated for technological and regulatory reasons. Vonage says part of the problem with connecting its service to 911 is that in many areas the regional Bell companies control the systems that connect calls to 911, and the Bells have been reluctant to grant Vonage access to the system. For their part, the Bells have expressed concerns about keeping the 911 system safe from hackers. Some industry observers say the disputes largely reflect differences over the terms of connecting. Because of recent problems, Vonage is spending millions of dollars to set up a program, similar to the OnStar system available on General Motors Corp. vehicles, that would offer emergency callers a live response. Callers who aren't connected properly with 911 would reach a rep who would take information and immediately summon help. "No failure of 911 is ever acceptable," says Jeffrey Citron, Chairman and CEO of Vonage. He says the company has handled more than 100,000 emergency calls without incident, but "we have a handful of situations where things didn't go as expected." Unlike traditional phones, where a wire is plugged into the wall at a specific address, calls routed over the Internet aren't fixed to a location. To further complicate matters, some Internet phone providers let customers choose any area code, and take their numbers with them if they move or travel. As a result, someone with a Chicago area code, for example, could actually be calling 911 from Los Angeles. To get 911 service from some Internet-calling services, customers have to register their address, on top of the normal signup process. But even some customers who take that extra step -- as Ms. Waller did -- are surprised to find that their emergency calls are relegated to second-class status. Like Ms. Waller, Andrea McClanaghan, of Torrington, Conn., also a Vonage customer, got a recording when her nine-month-old son, Owen, who had been ill with a stomach virus, had a seizure. "He stopped breathing and we couldn't get help for him," says Ms. McClanaghan, whose son has recovered. "I was hysterical." They didn't realize that even though they had registered for 911, their calls to 911 centers could still go unanswered by a human. New York City has objected strenuously to the practice of sending calls to general administrative numbers instead of a 911 operator. In a letter to the FCC last month, city officials said the local 911 system handles about 30,000 calls a day. The letter, from the head of the city's department of information technology and telecommunications, said Vonage and several other Internet-based companies are, without permission, sending emergency calls to "a single phone sitting on an administrative desk. The only relationship of this phone to the city's 911 system is that the desk happens to be located in the same building where the city's main 911 call center is also located. This phone isn't equipped to serve an emergency response or public safety function." Vonage spokeswoman Brooke Schultz said the company has asked repeatedly for an alternative but got nowhere until recently. Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal says his office has gotten 10 to 20 complaints about emergency calls with Internet phone services. Vonage, he says, buries details about 911 deep down in a very long "user agreement" that few people take the time to read. "The disclosures are incomplete and incomprehensible," says Mr. Blumenthal. Vonage says it is addressing those concerns. "We think our disclosures are good," says Ms. Schultz, "but we're willing to work with the attorneys general." Ms. McClanaghan and Ms. Waller say Vonage customer-service reps were dismissive when they called to ask why they hadn't been able to reach 911. In a letter to Florida's Attorney General, Ms. Waller said the Vonage customer-service representative laughed when she told her that Julia had died. "She laughed and stated that they were unable to revive a baby," Ms. Waller says it took the company 11 days to get back to her. Ms. McClanaghan said it took at least four for her to hear back. "We've taken corrective action," said Mr. Citron, Vonage's CEO. He said the company has established a special team to handle customer service calls related to 911. She said customer-service representatives were struggling in an unfamiliar situation. Vonage and other Internet-based carriers say they are working on solutions that give customers full emergency service. AT&T says it plans to have full 911 service for about 70% of its Internet calling customers by the end of the year. 911 HITCHES Problems that can occur with some Internet-calling services: Customers forget to register their addresses -- or don't update them when they move Customers call 911 but get routed to numbers that may not be answered by live operators, particularly after hours. WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR 911 CALL A look at how the system works using various phone options TYPE / DESCRIPTION / COMMENT Traditional Phone / Phone line is linked to a fixed location and call is connected directly to live emergency operators who automatically see the caller 's location on a computer screen. / Extremely reliable Cellphone / Calls to 911 are traced by satellites or other technology. / Problems can arise from dropped calls, imprecise location information and antiquated 911 answering centers. Internet Calling From Cable Companies / Generally works the same way as traditional service because the number is linked to a fixed address and agreements are in place for connecting directly to the 911 system. / Extremely reliable Calling From Internet-based Carriers / Caller registers an address (usually their home address), and a database routes the call to the emergency center nearest the address. / Even some callers who register their addresses can have calls sent to non-emergency numbers at 911 centers. In many locations the ATT CallVantage service works exactly like E911 (Enhanced 911) because the phone exchange is limited to a single PSAP (i.e. the local emergency response system). Did you ask permission to reproduce copyrighted material? > Did you ask permission to reproduce copyrighted material? Please feel free to report this issue to the wsj. >Did you ask permission to reproduce copyrighted material? My, that is a mighty impressive and shiny netcop badge you have on your chest. Now shut your hole. >> Did you ask permission to reproduce copyrighted material? > > My, that is a mighty impressive and shiny netcop badge you have on > your chest. > > Now shut your hole. Don't be abusive. Answer the question, it is a reasonable one. Ivor >>> Did you ask permission to reproduce copyrighted material? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Ivor NOt at all reasonable, although one that is frequently asked by anal retentive posters. >>>> Did you ask permission to reproduce copyrighted material? >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > NOt at all reasonable, although one that is frequently asked by anal > retentive posters. You have obviously never had any of *your* copyright material used without your permission. Ivor > May 12, 2005 > Cellphone Hangup: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > By ANNE MARIE SQUEO > Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL [major snippage] Ms. Squeo should've done her homework. There's so many misnomers I lost count before I read the fist half. Note: Reading something from the WSJ doesn't make it true nor accurate.  Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' InterNet telephones are next on the list to be forced to implement 911. Simiolar issue to cellphones, because there may not be location info. > InterNet telephones are next on the list to be forced to > implement 911. Simiolar issue to cellphones, because > there may not be location info. Yes, the regulations have been submitted to congress and are certain to pass. They will probably require VoIP to change more in the US to PAY for the emergency connect services. Experienced carriers (like ATT.) will be in a better position because they have implemented 911 services before now. > InterNet telephones are next on the list to be forced to > implement 911. Simiolar issue to cellphones, because > there may not be location info. Why wouldn't there be any location info? All anyone needs to do is the same thing a landline provider does - key the service address into the database. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >> InterNet telephones are next on the list to be forced to >> implement 911. Simiolar issue to cellphones, because [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >same thing a landline provider does - key the service address into the >database. And who keys the address into the database when the VOIP subscriber takes his adapter with him to another location? >>>InterNet telephones are next on the list to be forced to >>>implement 911. Simiolar issue to cellphones, because [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > And who keys the address into the database when the VOIP subscriber > takes his adapter with him to another location? The half-dozen Vonage people that I know don't carry it around with them, more because it requires a broadband interface, and those don't grow on every street corner. I suppose if one were to plug their VoIP adapter into a hotel internet connection, then one's location could not be assured. But, broadband services are delivered to a fixed location, and therefore are predictably trackable for 911 location services. This reminds me of a really nifty fella that managed to significantly extend the range of his own cordless home phone, so much so that he could use it for a couple of blocks all around his house. One day while out and about, Mr. Nifty encountered Capt. Heart Failure, but managed to dial 911 just before falling unconscious, and subsequently croaked because the ambulance went to his service address. Poor bastard never figured he could screw himself that way. There was another guy who decided to go totally wireless at his home. His fatal error was assuming the only cell site serving his home's location would always work. So, the moral of the story is simple - just because one can don't necessarily mean one should. Or, the instant one believes themself to be smart enough, along comes Darwin to prove they're not. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >The half-dozen Vonage people that I know don't carry it around with >them, more because it requires a broadband interface, and those don't >grow on every street corner. I suppose if one were to plug their VoIP >adapter into a hotel internet connection, then one's location could not >be assured. But, broadband services are delivered to a fixed location, >and therefore are predictably trackable for 911 location services. It's common enough that Vonage lists it as a selling feature on their website... We said we would redefine communications, and we meant it. Whether it's a short trip or a permanent move, you don't have to give up your number just because you're out of area. All you need is Vonage phone service and a broadband Internet connection. When visiting family, going on vacation or traveling for business, you can make and receive calls from one convenient Vonage number. Vonage gives you unparalleled choice and control over where and how you use your phone. Take it With You The phone adapter available through Vonage is small and fully portable. Simply unplug the adapter and take it wherever you want it anywhere in the world. Just plug it into any broadband Internet connection, connect a phone, and your Vonage line is ready to go. >>The half-dozen Vonage people that I know don't carry it around with >>them, more because it requires a broadband interface, and those don't [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > anywhere in the world. Just plug it into any broadband Internet > connection, connect a phone, and your Vonage line is ready to go. Please don't misunderstand, I think the portability of it is great, so long as the user is aware that the devil is in the details, especially when related to 911 services. It's already been shown this is not always the case. VoIP, as a competitive service to regular landline, is pushing the envelope to new levels for all the right reasons. Sadly, some people, to their own demise, assume technology and legislation march arm-in-arm down the aisle. VoIP service is not for everybody, certainly including me - yet. Also certain, it'll be interesting to see how the all the usual suspects respond to this new bleeding edge. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >> And who keys the address into the database when the VOIP subscriber >> takes his adapter with him to another location? >The half-dozen Vonage people that I know don't carry it around with >them, more because it requires a broadband interface, and those don't >grow on every street corner. I suppose if one were to plug their VoIP >adapter into a hotel internet connection, then one's location could not >be assured. But, broadband services are delivered to a fixed location, >and therefore are predictably trackable for 911 location services. I can very easily see a service tech for networking equipment or computers usually used with networking carrying around an IP phone when they visit customer sites. It means they will have a phone in reach while they are at the equipment to call back to run remote diagnostics, order replacement parts, and call in higher-level support. Granted, if whatever it is they got called to fix is totally dead, broadband might not be available, but presumably the customer has some phones somewhere. I can also very easily see an employee carrying an IP phone around with him between different corporate offices in different cities, so his calls automatically follow him. A company deploying this would arrange to have broadband in all of its offices. I suspect there are a few employees in my company who do this. I also wonder what happens when it becomes easy (and this may have already happened) to set up private VOIP networks that are very hard to regulate because few people know they exist. That IP phone might be set up to use the company's VOIP switch as provider directly, bypassing Vonage and similar companies. You might or might not have the ability to make outside calls at all, much less 911. >There was another guy who decided to go totally wireless at his home. >His fatal error was assuming the only cell site serving his home's >location would always work. Another potential deadly problem is forgetting that you need power at your location to operate VOIP phones (the same applies to cell phones if the battery goes dead or you forgot to charge it. And sometimes you cannot operate your cell phone off the charger alone if the battery is dead enough. Waiting for it to charge while you are having a heart attack may be deadly. For that matter, so can fumbling around trying to change batteries while you need to call 911.) Gordon L. Burditt >>>And who keys the address into the database when the VOIP subscriber >>>takes his adapter with him to another location? [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > would arrange to have broadband in all of its offices. I suspect > there are a few employees in my company who do this. I'm aware of a few companies that use VoIP internally on their own PBX, Cisco is one, considering they've offered VoIP business options for some time now, and Nortel. > I also wonder what happens when it becomes easy (and this may have > already happened) to set up private VOIP networks that are very [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Gordon L. Burditt Wha...? Power? We don't need no stinking power! <vbg> Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' [snip] > The half-dozen Vonage people that I know don't carry it around with > them, more because it requires a broadband interface, and those [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > delivered to a fixed location, and therefore are predictably > trackable for 911 location services. If you're there. I *do* take my adaptor with me when I go on holiday (my friends who I stay with have ADSL). I also know several people who use VoIP ATA's at work and take them home with them so they can work from home if they need to. Also you're making the dangerous assumption that the whole world is the USA and uses 911 for emergency access. We don't here in the UK and if I take my ATA to the US with me which country's emergency services would I get..? Which number would I dial, 911 or the UK's 999..? Ivor > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Ivor That's a really good question... given how I understand the nature of the service, I suppose dialing 999 would still connect, albeit the point of doing so would be dubious. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >[snip] > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >take my ATA to the US with me which country's emergency services would I >get..? Which number would I dial, 911 or the UK's 999..? Ideally both should be supported since 999 doesn't go anywhere else. SignatureMicrosoft: Putting the PR into proprietary. > >> InterNet telephones are next on the list to be forced to > >> implement 911. Simiolar issue to cellphones, because [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > And who keys the address into the database when the VOIP subscriber > takes his adapter with him to another location? That would be the responsibility of the consumer. I keyed my info in by myself and the ANI/ALI gets delivered to the E-911 dispatch center in my state. >> InterNet telephones are next on the list to be forced to >> implement 911. Simiolar issue to cellphones, because [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >same thing a landline provider does - key the service address into the >database. For fixed location VoIP gear, no problem. However, the issue is getting users to update their address when the VoIP hardware is moved (often on a short term basis). I have little desire to inform Vonage whenever I fly to Texas for a week. Moreover, since my account is located in Canada, Vonage won't even accept a US address for emergency services. At the same time, I don't want to be liable for someone using my phone to call for help when I'm staying at a friend's place in Texas and help not arriving because I didn't update my address. 911 is one of those things in life where it's better to make no effort at all then to make the effort and get it wrong. If I dial 911 and say "Help! My house is on fire!" and the dispatchers says "Help is on the way, a fire truck will be there within 3 minutes", I'm probably not going to try to escape myself (since chances are I'm safer in my bedroom with a source of fresh oxygen then if I open the door and try to make it through a smoke+fire filled hallway -- It's not possible to attempt escape through the bedroom window) If the fire trucks show up where I was staying a week ago, I will still be standing around in my burning house waiting for help. However, if I know that no help is coming because when I dialed 911 I got a "Stop! You cannot dial 911 from this phone" message (like Vonage does for accounts without 911 service enabled), I'll know that I either need to grab my cell phone and call for help, or escape on my own. There may be criminal liability involved with getting it wrong too, incidentally. If I see a man drowning, I am under no obligation to help. However, if I yell to him that I am coming, and I fail to make an attempt to rescue him, I am now potentially guilty of criminally negligent homicide, since if were not for my actions, he might have continued screaming and someone else might have helped. Signature"I think women and sea men don't mix" -- Smithers, Simpsons >911 is one of those things in life where it's better to make no effort >at all then to make the effort and get it wrong. If I dial 911 and say [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >through a smoke+fire filled hallway -- It's not possible to attempt >escape through the bedroom window) There are lessons here. One is that if you call 911, TELL THEM WHERE YOU WANT HELP (assuming, of course, that you are able to). What type of help you want comes first, though. Just because YOU are at a payphone outside a 7-11, that doesn't mean that the guy trapped in an overturned car is there rather than half a mile down the road. GPS is nice, but I bet it doesn't send ALTITUDE over cell phones, so whether you're on the overpass or underpass may affect how long it takes to get an ambulance to you, even if GPS is accurate down to the millimeter. And if you're on the side of the freeway, the GPS may not be able to tell whether you're on the freeway or the access road (maps may not cover every curve of the road, even if GPS is 100% accurate), so again it might matter in getting an ambulance to you. It's also my observation that GPS doesn't work too well inside high-rise office buildings, (couldn't even see one satellite on the top floor) and even if it manages to get close (oh, it's the OTHER tower!) it won't say what floor. I once got involved in trying to trace a harassing phone call (as the recipient). According to phone company records, there were a pile of phone booths several kilometers high at 1500 Eighth Street, one of them being the phone in question. Actually these phones were in dorms spread over a 5 block by 5 block area. Not all of the dorms actually had street addresses that anyone knew about - many of them were on private roads. The entire campus had their phones at one address. This was well before E911, though. I hope the records are now fixed so if someone needs to locate a phone for reasons more important than harassing phone calls, the caller won't die waiting. >If the fire trucks show up where I was staying a week ago, I will still >be standing around in my burning house waiting for help. TELL THEM WHERE YOU ARE! This should also include what floor or what room so they have some idea where you might be trapped if you don't get out, even if they have the right street address. >However, if I know that no help is coming because when I dialed 911 I >got a "Stop! You cannot dial 911 from this phone" message (like Vonage >does for accounts without 911 service enabled), I'll know that I either >need to grab my cell phone and call for help, or escape on my own. Agreed here. Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area? Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state), she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a heart attack, how do I get help for her? Gordon L. Burditt >>However, if I know that no help is coming because when I dialed 911 I >>got a "Stop! You cannot dial 911 from this phone" message (like Vonage [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a >heart attack, how do I get help for her? My understanding is that if you dial 911 they'll eventually be able to get you though to the right place. Maybe. However, people aren't likely to be rational when they're going through an emergency themselves. SignatureMicrosoft: Putting the PR into proprietary. >>>However, if I know that no help is coming because when I dialed 911 I >>>got a "Stop! You cannot dial 911 from this phone" message (like Vonage [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > However, people aren't likely to be rational when they're going through > an emergency themselves. Remember that case where two guys on a chat line (or were they playing chess by computer?) and the one in England had a heart attack and the guy in the US called for help? >> My understanding is that if you dial 911 they'll eventually be able to >> get you though to the right place. Maybe. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >chess by computer?) and the one in England had a heart attack and the >guy in the US called for help? No actually, I don't... SignatureStudy reveals half the country has below-average intelligence. >>>> However, if I know that no help is coming because when I dialed 911 I >>>> got a "Stop! You cannot dial 911 from this phone" message (like Vonage [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > chess by computer?) and the one in England had a heart attack and the > guy in the US called for help? Yeah, I do, they both knew where the other was because they both belonged to the same club. A no-brainer. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >>Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state), >>she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > My understanding is that if you dial 911 they'll eventually be able to > get you though to the right place. Maybe. In my job I work closely with 911 dispatch centers across the country. I can tell you that if you try this, if they're not very busy they may try to help you. But it will probably require that they dial 411 information to get the police/fire phone number for the area where the victim is. They may be able to do an online search, or they may be able to send an NLETS (national law enforcement tracking system) administrative message asking for the number. But sadly our "first responders" are NOT networked together very well. I blame the beaurocrats who like to talk big about how important our first responders are, but fail to pony up the funds to make it possible. Sharon > >>Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state), > >>she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > beaurocrats who like to talk big about how important our first responders are, > but fail to pony up the funds to make it possible. NLETS terminates in just about every state police HQ. From there it's distributed to the municipalities. For instance, in Rhode Island the NLETS connection passed through to municipalities and the AG's office as RILETS. >> >>Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state), >> >>she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > NLETS connection passed through to municipalities and the AG's office as > RILETS. Sure, but to my knowledge it doesn't give them real-time communication ability adequate to the purpose suggested above. NLETS is more of a database search utility. You can see if John Schmoe who you've just pulled over is listed on Arizona's or Maine's wanted lists or whatever. And I know you can send an admin message to Podunk Police Dept **IF** you can look up their ORI number. Whether Podunk sees your message and responds to it before Gordon's mother expires is pretty unrealistic. My only point is that it's probably faster just to dial 411 yourself and ask for the number for Podunk Police. > Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never > had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Gordon L. Burditt Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer... in this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers, explain that you have an emergency and need to speak to law enforcement for medical assistance in your mother's location. They will make every attempt to connect you to the appropriate authority and will stay on the line until that happens. Operators have been providing this level of service for many years and are glad to help any way they can under these circumstances. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >> Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never >> had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > service for many years and are glad to help any way they can under these > circumstances. Good advice, except that the context of this thread was VoIP, and most VoIP services do NOT have "operator"! (This is how they lower costs.) >>> Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never >>> had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Good advice, except that the context of this thread was VoIP, and most > VoIP services do NOT have "operator"! (This is how they lower costs.) Another revelation! Is it available as an pay-extra feature? Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >>>> Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never >>>> had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Another revelation! Is it available as an pay-extra feature? Nope. Maybe have people at home on call for when you need to talk? mmmmm... >>>>> Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never >>>>> had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Maybe have people at home on call for when you need to talk? mmmmm... Dayem! I smell another business opportunity. Woo Woo! Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >> Good advice, except that the context of this thread was VoIP, and most >> VoIP services do NOT have "operator"! (This is how they lower costs.) > >Another revelation! Is it available as an pay-extra feature? It could be if it was there to offer - but the VoIP services don't have one to sell. >It could be if it was there to offer - but the VoIP services don't >have one to sell. I'm not sure there would be any purpose to having a VoIP operator. As far as I can remember, the only times I've called the operator in the last 25 years was to ask for information that I was too lazy to figure out from the phone book: whether a certain number would be a toll call, how to dial a certain foreign country, or how to do a conference call. I just checked: my Vonage help page does have all that info, accessible reasonably easily. I'm interested to hear that operators can provide "remote" emergency help. But I wonder whether the regular 911 people will do that too - and perhaps more efficiently. You sure there's still a use for an operator? The old traditional use of an operator was to plug the cord with your call on it into the right socket. Those days are long gone. Garry [snip] > You sure there's still a use for an operator? The old traditional > use of an operator was to plug the cord with your call on it into > the right socket. Those days are long gone. There are many occasions when an operator is useful, although I can't think of one for a VoIP service. An operator can set up a personal call, whereby you are only charged when the person you want comes to the phone. Probably not much use for this nowadays, with mobile and similar services, but some business users might still find it useful. Also reverse charge calls require operator assistance. There is an automatic version around here in the UK now but it incurs a hefty additional charge so is best avoided. I'm sure someone else can find a few more uses for the poor old operator before she's put out to pasture ;-) Ivor > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Ivor You have put your finger(s) on another issue with VoIP: you cannot place person-to-person NOR collect-calls nor ANY other type of operator-assisted call. That's one reason costs can stay low. Actually, I don't even know if I can receive on a VoIP line a collect call. (Happily, all my kids are grown, flown and on their own.) >You have put your finger(s) on another issue with VoIP: you cannot place >person-to-person NOR collect-calls nor ANY other type of >operator-assisted call. That's one reason costs can stay low. I'm afraid those are things of the past, too. The original purpose of person-to-person, as I recall, was to avoid having to pay the long-distance charge if the person you wanted to talk to wasn't even there. This was of interest when long distance cost an arm and a leg. Nowadays when the surcharge for the operator is a hundred times greater than the charge for the long distance call itself, person-to-person just doesn't make much sense. Collect calls are useful from a pay phone. Or, rather, they =used= to be useful -- back when pay phones were still plentiful. Back when pay phones didn't have built-in "dial anywhere" deals. Back before calling cards were available really cheap in every convenience store. Back before you could talk to your automobile directly. Only people I've heard of who still call collect are the prison inmates. >Actually, I don't even know if I can receive on a VoIP line a collect >call. (Happily, all my kids are grown, flown and on their own.) The kids I know that are anywhere near grown seem to have all acquired their own cell phones... Garry >Collect calls are useful from a pay phone. Or, rather, they =used= to be >useful -- back when pay phones were still plentiful. Back when pay phones >didn't have built-in "dial anywhere" deals. Back before calling cards were >available really cheap in every convenience store. Back before you could talk >to your automobile directly. Well, the person you call collect pays a hefty premium so you can call them. Many people even have collect call blocks on their lines in addition to third party billing block. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > You have put your finger(s) on another issue with VoIP: you cannot > place person-to-person NOR collect-calls nor ANY other type of > operator-assisted call. That's one reason costs can stay low. When you are calling for 2cents or less per minute do you really care if you get the wrong person or of the call is collect? The whole idea of operator-assisted calls only made sense when the calls had substantial per minute fees. -wolfgang SignatureWolfgang S. Rupprecht http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ >> You have put your finger(s) on another issue with VoIP: you cannot >> place person-to-person NOR collect-calls nor ANY other type of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >of operator-assisted calls only made sense when the calls had >substantial per minute fees. Collect calls will not be billed at 2c/minute, they are billed at the operator rate of the dialing telco (IIRC this is regulated in the states -- I know for sure that the CRTC regulates the operator or base rate in Canada) SignatureA cheap shot is a terrible thing to waste. >In message <x77jhsrsc7.fsf@bonnet.wsrcc.com> "Wolfgang S. Rupprecht" >>When you are calling for 2cents or less per minute do you really care >>if you get the wrong person or of the call is collect? > >Collect calls will not be billed at 2c/minute, they are billed at the >operator rate of the dialing telco Wolfgang was talking about =regular= phone calls being "2 cents a minute or less". Garry >>In message <x77jhsrsc7.fsf@bonnet.wsrcc.com> "Wolfgang S. Rupprecht" >>>When you are calling for 2cents or less per minute do you really care [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Wolfgang was talking about =regular= phone calls being "2 cents a minute or >less". He said "do you really care if you get the wrong person or if the call is collect?" -- If you get the wrong person you're out a few cents, no big deal. If you get a collect call, you're out a fair amount of money, at least a hundred minutes of direct dialed calls. SignatureQ. How many Microsoft technicians does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Three. Two to hold the ladder and one to hammer the bulb into a faucet. >>> "Wolfgang S. Rupprecht" >>>> When you are calling for 2cents or less per minute do you really care [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > If you get a collect call, you're out a fair amount of money, at least a > hundred minutes of direct dialed calls. Right, but since phone calls cost 2 cents a minute, who would bother to make a collect call (outside of a prison, that is). Other than my dad, who has an inexplicable habit of calling me collect from airports, I can't think of the last time I've encoutnered one. miguel SignatureHit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan >[snip] > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >nowadays, with mobile and similar services, but some business users might >still find it useful. Sure, but the per-minute charge for a person-to-person call, billed over the entire call is often 10x-50x a direct dialed call. As a result, unless you're calling 10-50 times to reach the person AND only talk for one minute, it's almost always cheaper to make the call yourself. If you are calling frequently enough for it to be worth the money, it will very quickly become cheaper to hire a secretary to make the calls for you. SignatureIt's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it. >Also reverse charge calls require operator assistance. There is an >automatic version around here in the UK now but it incurs a hefty >additional charge so is best avoided. There are automated "operator" services in the US and Canada as well. Instead of dialling 1 before an area code you dial 01 and when you are through dialling you get a menu with prompts. Depending on the service some have you key 12 for collect (reverse charges) or for third number or calling/credit card it's all automated. Since they started to charge for directory assistance (enquiries) here in the states I can count on one hand the number of times I've used it in the last 26 years. Heck most of the time even if you do use directory assistance they have got it wrong! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > >Also reverse charge calls require operator assistance. There is an > >automatic version around here in the UK now but it incurs a hefty [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > in the last 26 years. Heck most of the time even if you do use > directory assistance they have got it wrong! Which is precisely why I block 411 with my Mitel SMART-1 controller. It just wasn't worth Vonage's buck a pop to get an incorrect listing. >Which is precisely why I block 411 with my Mitel SMART-1 controller. It >just wasn't worth Vonage's buck a pop to get an incorrect listing. Just connect it to Infone instead. The regular directory assistance around here is pitiful/horrible/usually wrong (I'm thinking especially of Verizon.) But Infone is great. It's that same buck a pop (well, 89 cents now), but sometimes you're talking to an operator who's actually =been= to "that diner on Broadway" you can't quite remember the name of (did that), and always you can ask things like "I know there's a Target store around here somewhere, but I can't quite find it -- can you guide me in?" (been there, done that too.) Sign up at www.infone.com, then put 888-411-1111 on your VoIP speed-dial. shamelessly shilling, Garry >>Which is precisely why I block 411 with my Mitel SMART-1 controller. It >>just wasn't worth Vonage's buck a pop to get an incorrect listing. >Just connect it to Infone instead. The regular directory assistance around >here is pitiful/horrible/usually wrong (I'm thinking especially of Verizon.) [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >shamelessly shilling, I use them occasionally, when I can't find a number with SMS messaging to 46645 to have Google look it up. Infone's a quality service, and cheaper than the idiots who service the ILECs. Recommended. No connection, except as a customer, BTW. -- John Bartley K7AAY 503.326.2231...147 telecom syadmin, USBC-Oregon, Portland - Views are mine. http://palmwireless.cjb.net Wireless FAQ for PalmOS(r) Dilbert is a documentary. Infone is great! I highly recommend Infone. It's more like a concierge service with all the extras they provide and cheaper than VZW's pathetic info service, that has failed me a couple of times, when I needed it most. Wrong number and couldn't find the right city:( The Infone operater will stick with you until every lookup possibilty is exhausted. They also give directions and a bunch of other included services. They spend, IIRC, up to 15 minutes helping to find the correct number/info. The only hassle is setting up credit card billing, since they operate outside your carrier's billing system. But it's worth the one time setup inconvenience. They use to offer 5 free lookups. I got 10 but that's no longer available. Ther's also an Infone 800 CS number that doesn't cost if you need to work out a billing problem. - David FCC Orders 911 Service for VoIP As expected, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) issued an order Thursday requiring Internet phone service companies to provide enhanced 911 (E911) emergency calling capabilities to their customers and delivered a 120-day deadline for compliance. VoIP providers must, by default, deliver all 911 calls to the customer's local emergency operator. Interconnected VoIP providers also must provide emergency operators with the call back number and location information of their customers where the emergency operator is capable of receiving it. The new demands must be met within 120 days of the official publication of the order, which is expected by the end of this month. Regulatory Process Proceeds The ruling is a response to the rapidly expanding VoIP customer base and directly impacts providers such as Vonage and EarthLink, as well as cable companies. It also reflects the FCC's earlier decision to take regulatory control of Internet-based calling rather than grant that control to states. Calling the IP-enabled services marketplace "the latest new frontier of our nation's communications landscape," the FCC cited horror stories brought to its attention in which VoIP customers dialed 911 but were unable to reach emergency operators. "The sad fact is that we have spent so much time splitting hairs about what is a telecommunications service and what is an information service that we have endangered public safety," said commissioner Michael Copps in a statement. "At some point the semantic debates must end and reality must assert itself -- when customers sign up for a telephone they expect it to deliver like a telephone." Cooperation from Carriers Required Most providers, in anticipation of the decision, have been adding E911 capabilities to their systems and support the FCC. The mandate could spell trouble, though, for smaller operations without the resources to add emergency services capabilities. "EarthLink and other VoIP providers are committed to providing 911 services. We therefore support FCC and Congressional efforts to ensure public safety by requiring that VoIP subscribers have prompt access to E911," said Dave Baker, vice president of law and public policy at EarthLink. Baker also noted that to meet this objective, the FCC must ensure that incumbent phone companies provide access to the interfaces needed to deliver and complete emergency calls. "We have been given a big obligation to meet in a short time, so it's up to the Bells to meet their requirements as well," he said. Action Was Overdue "The low-end VoIP providers will probably struggle with another regulatory hurdle to clear, and there could be a shakeup in the industry that may be a good thing," said IDC analyst Will Stofega. "But this has to be done because most customers did not realize there was no support for E911 with their service." Still, said Stofega, the FCC has been dragging its feet on VoIP regulations despite determining that it is an interstate communications service. "They have been talking about this since 1999, but until now have not offered any rules for operating next-generation phone services," he said. Vonage announced an agreement Thursday to purchase wireless and wireline E911 services from SBC and BellSouth (NYSE: BLS - news). And Verizon (NYSE: VZ - news) recently announced that it will provide E911 calling system to VoIP service providers and vendors, enabling them to connect their customers' emergency calls to Public Safety Answering Points (PSAPs). http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nf/20050520/bs_nf/35336 >>> Good advice, except that the context of this thread was VoIP, and most >>> VoIP services do NOT have "operator"! (This is how they lower costs.) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It could be if it was there to offer - but the VoIP services don't > have one to sell. > Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer... in > this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers, explain [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > service for many years and are glad to help any way they can under these > circumstances. How do you do that with a cell phone and/or VoIP phone? >> Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer... >> in this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > How do you do that with a cell phone and/or VoIP phone? I dial "0" from cell phones regularly for call assistance. I am clueless about VoIP phones. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >>> Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer... >>> in this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I dial "0" from cell phones regularly for call assistance. I am > clueless about VoIP phones. VoIP phones have NO "opearator" to call. (You get a recording.) >>>> Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer... >>>> in this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > VoIP phones have NO "opearator" to call. (You get a recording.) On Sipgate you don't get anything. Here in the UK the number for the operator is 100 not 0 - all phone numbers start with 0 so dialling 0 means the system is just waiting for the rest of the number. Sipgate uses 10000 for a test number so dialling 100 won't get you anywhere either..! Ivor >>>>>Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer... >>>>>in this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Ivor Why wouldn't dialing 100 get me anywhere? Don't they do interdigit timing like all the telcos do? Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' [snip] >> On Sipgate you don't get anything. Here in the UK the number for the >> operator is 100 not 0 - all phone numbers start with 0 so dialling 0 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Why wouldn't dialing 100 get me anywhere? Don't they do interdigit > timing like all the telcos do? Possibly, if anything was allocated to 100, but it isn't..! Ivor >> InterNet telephones are next on the list to be forced to >> implement 911. Simiolar issue to cellphones, because [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >same thing a landline provider does - key the service address into the >database. What if the 911 caller is unable or unsure of the address from which they are reporting? That's what E911 is all about. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>>InterNet telephones are next on the list to be forced to >>>implement 911. Simiolar issue to cellphones, because [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What if the 911 caller is unable or unsure of the address from which > they are reporting? That's what E911 is all about. Well, yeah, there's that, and not all callers speak the same language as the PSAP operator, not all callers are sober, and some callers are just dumber than a bag of hammers and have no clue where the hell they are until excrement occurs. OTOH, if one can simply edit their location info via a secure webpage, then that makes things a lot simpler. But there are other deal killers in the loop. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' > until excrement occurs. OTOH, if one can simply edit their location > info via a secure webpage, then that makes things a lot simpler. But > there are other deal killers in the loop. Is it possible to trace by IP address? caller -> 911 center -> VoIP phone company -> ISP -> obtain physical location of service (e.g. DSL/cable) >> until excrement occurs. OTOH, if one can simply edit their location >> info via a secure webpage, then that makes things a lot simpler. But [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > caller -> 911 center -> VoIP phone company -> ISP -> obtain physical > location of service (e.g. DSL/cable) Sometimes, but by no means always. Some people tunnel, other people connect through gateways that may not pass on the originating IP address. Some IP addresses are internal to corporate networks that may not make detailed geographical information available. Some people connect by satellite (such as me in rural Thailand at the moment, even though my IP address appears to be a DSL line in Washington DC), and it's very hard to make any guesses about where they are unless you have a list of subscribers and where their dishes were supposed to be installed. miguel SignatureHit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan >> until excrement occurs. OTOH, if one can simply edit their location >> info via a secure webpage, then that makes things a lot simpler. But [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >caller -> 911 center -> VoIP phone company -> ISP -> obtain physical >location of service (e.g. DSL/cable) In short, no. SignatureIf you can remain calm, you just don't have all the facts. The tutorial at this address: http://www.telecomflash.com/default.asp?func=articles&page=0505tf0410&year=2005& month=5 gives an overview of the problem and what needs to be addressed. Maurice > The tutorial at this address: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Maurice Thanks for the pointer to an excellent overview of 911 implementation. How would I find out if my VoIP provider has a "direct-trunked VoIP network?" Your question was already answered in the article: "Almost 12 years later, more than half of the U.S. still lacks the technology to find cellphone callers in distress." KM ------------------ > May 12, 2005 > Cellphone Hangup: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You? [quoted text clipped - 436 lines] > their addresses can have calls sent to non-emergency numbers at 911 > centers. > Your question was already answered in the article: > > "Almost 12 years later, more than half of the U.S. still lacks the > technology to find cellphone callers in distress." Considering the bullshit the government tried to push down the throats of the cellular providers, I'm not surprised. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' Internet Phones Given 911 Deadline May 19, 2005 WASHINGTON (AP) -- Internet phone providers were ordered Thursday to begin supplying reliable 911 emergency call service after regulators heard an anguished Florida woman describe how she was unable to summon help to save her dying infant daughter. The Federal Communication Commission gave companies 120 days to certify that their customers will be able to reach an emergency dispatcher when they call 911. Also, dispatchers must be able to tell where callers are located and the numbers from which they are calling. Her voice breaking, Cheryl Waller of Deltona, Fla., told the commissioners before their vote that ''120 days is seven days longer than my daughter lived.'' Julia Waller ''died at 113 days old because I can't reach an operator,'' she said. Waller said she got a recording when she used her Internet phone to call 911 after her daughter stopped breathing last March. By the time she was able to summon help with a neighbor's phone, the child was dead. FCC Chairman Kevin J. Martin, who began a push for the 911 rules soon after taking over the agency in March, said such situations are ''simply unacceptable.'' ''Anyone who dials 911 has a reasonable expectation that he or she will be connected to an emergency operator,'' Martin said. Internet phone service, known as Voice over Internet Protocol, or VoIP, shifts calls from wires and switches, using computers and broadband connections to convert sounds into data and transmit them via the Internet. In many cases, subscribers use conventional phones hooked up to high-speed Internet lines. But unlike traditional phones, which have a fixed address that a 911 operator can quickly call up, Internet phone service can be mobile. Someone with a laptop who signs up for service in Arizona, for example, may end up calling 911 for an emergency while on a trip to Boston. Roughly half the nation's estimated 1.5 million VoIP users are served by cable television companies that already provide full-blown 911 capabilities because they only offer phone service to a fixed location. The FCC's order requires companies that allow customers to use their Internet phones anywhere there is an Internet connection to provide the same emergency capability. The order follow months of finger-pointing and bickering between VoIP carriers and the traditional local phone companies that own the network connections to the nation's nearly 6,200 ''public safety answer points.'' The FCC order, approved by a 4-0 vote, requires local phone companies to provide access to their E-911 networks -- those that enable emergency operators to identify the location and telephone number of the caller -- to any telecommunications carrier. Just before the FCC issued its order, Vonage Holdings Corp., one of the largest VoIP carriers, said it had reached an agreement with BellSouth and SBC Communications to purchase E-911 services for its customers. BellSouth confirmed the deal. A spokesman for SBC said the arrangement has not been completed. Vonage reached a similar deal with Verizon last week. John Rego, Vonage's chief financial officer, said arrangements with the three companies will enable Vonage to provide E-911 capability to more than 75 percent of its customers. He said negotiations are continuing with Qwest Communications on a deal to cover the other 25 percent. ''We've been trying to get this access for a year,'' Rego said. ''We'll work as diligently as we can to make this happen in the next 120 days. If we don't get there, the FCC will at least be able to see we've made a very good faith effort.'' Companies that fail to meet the 120-day deadline would be subject to the full range of FCC enforcement actions, including fines and cease-and-desist orders. Under the order, VoIP carriers must provide a way for customers to update their location and callback numbers when they travel. Failure to update that information would cause an emergency operator to assume the call was coming from the last registered location. The order also requires VoIP carriers to explain to their customers the capabilities and limitations of the emergency response service they are getting with their Internet phones. Connection to a 911 operator, for example, would not be possible for a VOIP customer if there is a power failure or loss of Internet connection. Internet phone service usually is cheaper than traditional service, ranging from $20 to $50 per month for an unlimited national calling plan. As a result, it has become a rapidly growing industry, something federal regulators said they did not want to slow. But, commissioner Jonathan Adelstein said, ''We cannot let our desire to see VoIP proliferate come at the cost of providing the best emergency services available today, nor can we afford to take any steps backward.'' The order does not apply to other Internet-based providers, such as those that offer instant messaging or gaming services that contain voice components. |
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