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Cellular Phone Forum / General / General Topics / May 2005Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more roaming, even at extra cost, No more National Single Rate Plan.
Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more roaming, even at extra cost, No more National Single Rate Plan. The original America's Choice calling plan from Verizon was a great plan. It included a lot of off-network roaming, at no extra charge, in areas where Verizon did not have a network. Where Verizon didn't have a roaming agreement, your phone could still be used, but at extra cost. Verizon has been worsening America's Choice almost from its inception. They began by abandoning roaming agreements, so that there was a lot less included roaming, and a lot more extra-cost roaming. When this was disclosed by people who were analyzing their PRLs (preferred roaming lists), they forced these people to take this information off the web. Now they have changed the plan again, and new subscribers will have no roaming at all, even at an extra charge. This means that you can only use the phone in areas where Verizon has service (except for 911 calls). If you're out of Verizon's coverage area, your phone is a paperweight except for 911 access. Driving from the San Francisco Bay Area to Yosemite? Your phone will stop working completely on the outskirts of Oakdale, where Golden State Cellular is the carrier, and you'll have no coverage inside the park. Driving up the California Coast to Mendocino? No coverage. Alaska? No coverage. The list goes on and on. To complete the service reduction, Verizon no longer offers the National Single Rate plan. According to their sales people, they have NO plans that offer off-network roaming (though their web site states that their Digital Choice plan (local plan), and their InPulse prepaid plan, allow roaming at 69¢ per minute). Verizon's web site is intentionally misleading. It states, for America's Choice, "Domestic Roaming (No roaming charges) (Coverage not available in all areas)," without stating that what they really mean is that you cannot actually roam onto any other carrier's network. Previous America's Choice subscribers will still be able to roam off Verizon, though there will be less and less included roaming, as Verizon abandons roaming agreements. So what's your point? Was this a public service for those who can't read? -Quick > Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more > roaming, even at extra cost, No more National Single Rate [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > to roam off Verizon, though there will be less and less > included roaming, as Verizon abandons roaming agreements. > So what's your point? > > Was this a public service for those who can't read? > > -Quick If you noticed, the OP was crossposted for all the cellular newsgroups in the galaxy, and a few other newsgroups as well. It was news to yours truly, and I'm sure quite a few others, who don't participate on the Verizon newsgroup. Bob >> So what's your point? >> >> Was this a public service for those who can't read? [snip] > It was news to yours truly, > and I'm sure quite a few others, who don't participate on the Verizon > newsgroup. It was timely, for me, being as I'm on the verge of choosing a new plan and phones. I'll *probably* stick with SPCS, but VZ would probably be my 2nd choice. Or would have been. I wonder what VZ hopes to gain by shrinking their coverage?  SignatureJim Seymour | "There is no expedient to which a man will not jseymour@LinxNet.com | go to avoid the labor of thinking." http://jimsun.LinxNet.com | - Thomas A. Edison > I wonder what VZ hopes to gain by shrinking their coverage? According to the Verizon CSR, they were having a problem with complaints about roaming charges. This stemmed from two issues. First, many people do not understand what the roaming indicators on their phone means. The little flashing or non-flashing triangle, or the solid or flashing :"Extended Network" message (complicating this is the fact that the flashing versus non-flashing is counter-intuitive, flashing should be used when you are being charged roaming, and solid should be used when you are on the Extended Network, but it's the opposite way around). Second, many people never update their PRL. As Verizon has reduced its extended network coverage, the phone will still indicate that you are not roaming, if you have an old PRL that included the area you're in as part of the extended network. So the solution to eliminating complaints about roaming charges is obviously to eliminate all roaming. Not having your phone work at all is obviously better than paying for roaming! The non-roaming AC does have a larger extended network than the old roaming AC, but there are still areas where the choice is roaming or no service. The solution is to carry a second phone from a prepaid provider, that allows roaming, when traveling. An old TDMA/AMPS phone on Beyond Wireless (http://gobeyondwireless.com) will work, and has no minimums, and no expiration (other than making one call every 60 days). > > I wonder what VZ hopes to gain by shrinking their coverage? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > when you are being charged roaming, and solid should be used when you are on > the Extended Network, but it's the opposite way around). Exactly! This happened to me last year on the Miss. River... The regular 'help' gave me the wrong info, only after bring it up, by chance, with a 'data' specialist did she correctly inform me about the solid triangle. She offer to credit back all roaming charges and would call me in 45 days to make sure it was done... she did call me, which was impressive service. I'd love to switch to a GSM based service, but in my home area VZ is really very good coverage... my biggest grip is with their position on 'bluetooth', they will not make it fully functional... so you hopefully will use "Get it Now"... there is a Class Action suit for this... great another 30% off coupon at goods I don't want and are 150% overvalued. jay Wed May 25, 2005 mailto:gofig@mac.com > Second, many people never update their PRL. As Verizon has reduced its > extended network coverage, the phone will still indicate that you are not [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > (http://gobeyondwireless.com) will work, and has no minimums, and no > expiration (other than making one call every 60 days). > > > I wonder what VZ hopes to gain by shrinking their coverage? > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > chance, with a 'data' specialist did she correctly inform me about the > solid triangle. When I was in Alaska, I couldn't convince my sister-in-law that the flashing meant that she was on the extended network. She called customer service, and they gave her the wrong answer, telling her that Verizon had no service in Alaska (and adding that Alaska is our 50th state!). I told her to call back and ask again, since with Verizon, you really should go for two out of three, or three out of five, to have a good chance of getting the correct information. > So the solution to eliminating complaints about roaming charges is obviously > to eliminate all roaming. Not having your phone work at all is obviously > better than paying for roaming! Yeahbut they also got rid of National Single-Rate, where you wouldn't HAVE roaming complaints because you always roam without roaming charges in the US. Is North America's Choice still available? SignatureJustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle" > > So the solution to eliminating complaints about roaming charges is obviously > > to eliminate all roaming. Not having your phone work at all is obviously [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > HAVE roaming complaints because you always roam without roaming charges > in the US. I think that the only people signing up for NSR were people that were doing a great deal of off-network roaming, otherwise it would have been cheaper to use AC and pay for occasional roaming. So Verizon was probably losing money on NSR from too many customers to keep offering it. On Thu, 26 May 2005 00:48:44 GMT, "Steven M. Scharf" >"Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message >> Yeahbut they also got rid of National Single-Rate, where you wouldn't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >use AC and pay for occasional roaming. So Verizon was probably losing money >on NSR from too many customers to keep offering it. My mother lived in a rural area, and had NSR. NSR is/was practically a must for people in those areas, where the towers are few and far between. You can be on a Verizon tower, drive 100 ft down the road, and be on some other company's tower incurring roaming charges. Great NSR story about my small rural hometown... I bought my mother a Verizon cell phone with NSR. At that time, everything was analog (and probably still is). NSR was not cheap, but she could afford it, and I wanted to make things simple for her (i.e. not having to worry about roaming). Lots of folks bought Verizion phones in that area, as the other option was a regional provider with rather poor plans. The nearest Verizon tower was about 20 air miles away. Reception was not great, but usable most of the time (an external antenna helped immensely). As I recall, one band (A or B, I'm not sure) picked up the distant Verizon tower most of the time, but sometimes picked up a non-Verizon tower. the other band picked up a tower from another cell provider. I was sure glad we chose NSR! Surprisingly, many people did not buy the NSR plan. Some small company came in and built a cell tower a few miles outside of town. The town was thrilled, as this closer tower would allow the folks to ditch their antennas and bag phones. Then, the new tower was turned on. I don't know the technical details, but somehow the Verizon phones always connected to the new tower, and would no longer pick up the distant Verizon tower. But this tower company did not feel compelled to enter a roaming agreement with Verizion. So the Verizon users who didn't have NSR started incurring roaming charges for every call (both bands were roaming towers). The issue dragged on for months, and it may still may not be resolved. There were hearings and town meetings, but apparently no agency had the authority to compell Verizon and this tower company to make an agreement. My mother has since passed on, and my sister still has the phone with NSR, but lives in a larger town that has better Verizion coverage. She still benefits from NSR when she travels out away from town. Joe Huber huber.joseph@comcast.net <snip> >My mother has since passed on, and my sister still has the phone with > NSR, but lives in a larger town that has better Verizion coverage. > She still benefits from NSR when she travels out away from town. Hmm, I see a new item for people to put in their wills. To Michael, I bequeath my Verizon phone with National Single Rate. To Julie I bequeath my America's Choice 1 phone, with 8 p.m. off-peak start time, and off-network roaming. Is there anything in the contract that requires termination of service upon death, or can a phone and a plan be transferred to another person? >Is there anything in the contract that requires termination of service upon >death, or can a phone and a plan be transferred to another person? I really don't know what the contract stipulates regarding this. If Verizion wants to terminate the account, and loose a customer, then let them terminate it. I, as the estate administrator, pay the bill on time, and Verizon takes our money. Don't ask, don't tell... Joe Huber huber.joseph@comcast.net By Wed, 25 May 2005 15:10:45 GMT, "Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> decided to post "Re: Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more roaming, even at extra cost, No more National Single Rate Plan." to alt.cellular: >> I wonder what VZ hopes to gain by shrinking their coverage? > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >(http://gobeyondwireless.com) will work, and has no minimums, and no >expiration (other than making one call every 60 days). While you give what appears to be solid info, your conclusion is ridiculous -- from the viewpoint of an average consumer. Even "updating PRL" lists is beyond the pale. The idea of progress is to plug it in and have it work; as time progresses, and sucky corporate market butt-floss aside, any given product will empirically work better (be measureably better, the measurement indicating this will be repeatable.) It's not much of a solution to carry an extra phone for each market you may enter ... a real solution would be not to use the dubious services of this 'provider.' /.. -- Torture has no Christian value. > measurement indicating this will be repeatable.) It's not much of a > solution to carry an extra phone for each market you may enter ... a real > solution would be not to use the dubious services of this 'provider.' No one else is any better. SignatureJustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle" This is just spam. This is what happens when your #1. You think you can do whatever the f.ck you want and your customers are just suppose to take it. I liken Verizon to Microsoft if their attitude and arrogance. Not to mention the fact that I can't stand that moronic Can You Hear Me Know a.shole in those stupid commercials. On 5/24/05 12:31 PM, in article SFIke.7260$uR4.856@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net, "Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote: > Verizon Worsens America's Choice Calling Plan--No more roaming, even at > extra cost, No more National Single Rate Plan. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Verizon, though there will be less and less included roaming, as Verizon > abandons roaming agreements. > This is what happens when your #1. You think you can do whatever the f.ck > you want and your customers are just suppose to take it. I liken Verizon to > Microsoft if their attitude and arrogance. Not to mention the fact that I > can't stand that moronic Can You Hear Me Know a.shole in those stupid > commercials. No, I can't hear you know. What does it sound like for you to know? > This is what happens when your #1. You think you can do whatever the f.ck > you want and your customers are just suppose to take it. I liken Verizon to > Microsoft if their attitude and arrogance. Not to mention the fact that I > can't stand that moronic Can You Hear Me Know a.shole in those stupid > commercials. Verizon is no longer the largest carrier in terms of customers. However they have gotten a bit cocky after all the surveys by Consumer Reports, and other publications, rating them much better than the other carriers in terms of coverage. Most people will not realize that when they see "No Service" that there actually is service available--just not to them. >Verizon is no longer the largest carrier in terms of customers. However they >have gotten a bit cocky after all the surveys by Consumer Reports, and other >publications, rating them much better than the other carriers in terms of >coverage. Most people will not realize that when they see "No Service" that >there actually is service available--just not to them. How will this affect customers that have been on the America's Choice Plan for years...will their options be degraded? Pegleg U.S. Navy Retired Support Our Troops >>Verizon is no longer the largest carrier in terms of customers. However they >>have gotten a bit cocky after all the surveys by Consumer Reports, and other [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > How will this affect customers that have been on the America's Choice > Plan for years...will their options be degraded? If you stay on your current plan you won't be affected by this change (just by whatever changes are made to the existing orignal AC plan, like coverage increases). If you renew your contract, you'll have to switch to the new plan. > Pegleg > U.S. Navy Retired > Support Our Troops Thank you for your service, and I do support our troops! > If you stay on your current plan you won't be affected by this change > (just by whatever changes are made to the existing orignal AC plan, like > coverage increases). > > If you renew your contract, you'll have to switch to the new plan. No, this is not true. If you renew your contract, i.e. to get a discount on a new handset, you can keep your existing plan. You can also increase or decrease your minutes under your existing plan. If you switch to a totally different plan, such as from an individual plan to a family plan, then you cannot keep your old plan. Personally, even if AC2 allowed off-network roaming I would not change plans because I don't want to lose my 8:01 p.m. off-peak start time. |
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