Cellular Phone Forum / General / General Topics / May 2008
Verizon Phone - Tale of Woe - Maybe
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Tin Man Alley - 06 May 2008 19:39 GMT So here is the problem at hand.
My wife's phone was stolen.
It's expensive to replace it.
We thought the cheap pay-as-you-go phones could be used as replacements but that is apparently not the case. What a racket. Pay several hundred dollars for a replacement phone, or if you want a new "free" phone you have to rewrite your contract for additional years.
All we want to do is use up the present contract and get out.
So... my friend has a used LG. It will work fine with the service.
However, this used unit was one he purchased for his "ex" girlfriend to stay in touch. He bought it, and paid for it, but it was registered for service in her name.
So time marches on, they split up after a couple of years, and he takes the phone back.
She decides to get even and tells Verizon the phone is stolen. So now it cannot be used.
He no longer has the box or receipts used to purchase it. He often paid cash on the bill at a Verizon store or kiosk.
In fact he didn't even know it was listed as stolen. It sat in a drawer for several months then when he went to give it to us is when he discovered the stolen listing.
Has he any recourse or is this old phone pretty much a paper weight now? I doubt she (the ex) will make nice and recall the stolen report which is now about 2 years old.
Tim
Carl - 06 May 2008 20:06 GMT > So here is the problem at hand. > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Tim Sorry, I apologize for being unempathetic, but I pay $6/month to 'insure' my phone. It gets replaced whether I drop it in the toilet, lose it, or it gets stolen. I may have to pay 50 bucks, I may not, under certain conditions. You chose not to pay, and now you're whining.
I really don't understand your anti-Verizon slant here. The story does sound a little like you and your friends create some of their own problems.Take some responsibility. Verizon isn't your mommy and daddy.
Andreas Wenzel - 06 May 2008 20:23 GMT Tin Man Alley schrieb:
> So here is the problem at hand. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "free" phone you have to rewrite your contract for additional years. > [...] Yeah, what a racket. Ever got your car stolen? Did you get a free replacement? I mean, from your dealer of course, not from your insurance...
Andreas
Dave - 06 May 2008 20:36 GMT Ebay is your friend! Check the ESN before buying.
> So here is the problem at hand. > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Tim
 Signature Diving is life! The rest is just details. W.W.W.I.
Tin Man Alley - 07 May 2008 03:09 GMT > Ebay is your friend! Check the ESN before buying. Is that done by calling Verizon or is there an on-line resource for that?
Just curious as I am unfamiliar with the how-to.
Thanks.
Bill Kearney - 07 May 2008 14:21 GMT That and if he's got all the original receipts stating he paid for it then go to a Verizon store and talk with a manager. If he doesn't have the paper copies then get reprints from the credit card company.
Pangloss - 06 May 2008 22:45 GMT > So here is the problem at hand. > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Tim Learn to be concise so you don't waste all this bandwidth-- and our time to read your tale or irrelevant woe.
Your question is: where can I get a cheap replacement phone-- and the answer is eBay. Confirm the ESN before you pay bid though.
XS11E - 07 May 2008 01:23 GMT > I doubt she (the ex) will make nice and recall the stolen report > which is now about 2 years old. Is your friend's ex angry with you and your wife? Why not call her and tell her your tale and ask her to kill the report? Tell her she'd be doing your wife a favor.
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Tin Man Alley - 07 May 2008 08:30 GMT > Is your friend's ex angry with you and your wife? Why not call her and > tell her your tale and ask her to kill the report? Tell her she'd be > doing your wife a favor. Don't know her that well really. Burnt bridge.
Dean - 07 May 2008 02:02 GMT "It's expensive to replace it"
Naaaah----I have a drawer full of 'em.
eBay---I've bought a dozen used cheapies ($35 or less) with no problems. There are thousands of them on there.
Deal only with sellers with feedback numbers greater than 50 or so, ratings over 95%, and membership going back at least a year or two, read the ads CAREFULLY, and you should be good to go. I have almost 200 transactions there, split buying/selling, and never a problem.
HTH, Dean
> So here is the problem at hand. > > My wife's phone was stolen. > > It's expensive to replace it. SNIP
Bill Kearney - 07 May 2008 14:19 GMT > She decides to get even and tells Verizon the phone is stolen. So now > it cannot be used. So file a police report. She's commited fraud.
The Ghost of General Lee - 07 May 2008 18:08 GMT >> She decides to get even and tells Verizon the phone is stolen. So now >> it cannot be used. > >So file a police report. She's commited fraud. How? She didn't commit fraud. The worst she did was filing a false police report, which is a completely different crime. But she won't get charged with that, either. The phone service was in her name, ergo, the phone was presumed to belong to her.
XS11E - 07 May 2008 18:38 GMT >>> She decides to get even and tells Verizon the phone is stolen. >>> So now it cannot be used. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > she won't get charged with that, either. The phone service was in > her name, ergo, the phone was presumed to belong to her. But she KNEW the phone wasn't stolen, ergo, filing a false report.
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The Ghost of General Lee - 07 May 2008 18:52 GMT >>>> She decides to get even and tells Verizon the phone is stolen. >>>> So now it cannot be used. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >But she KNEW the phone wasn't stolen, ergo, filing a false report. In the absence of a confession by her, proving it would be next to impossible. She'd never be charged.
XS11E - 07 May 2008 19:39 GMT >>>>> She decides to get even and tells Verizon the phone is stolen. >>>>> So now it cannot be used. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > In the absence of a confession by her, proving it would be next to > impossible. She'd never be charged. Why not? Her ex-boy friend can provide all the evidence necessary if he were irate enough to do so.
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The Ghost of General Lee - 07 May 2008 19:53 GMT >>>>>> She decides to get even and tells Verizon the phone is stolen. >>>>>> So now it cannot be used. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Why not? Her ex-boy friend can provide all the evidence necessary if >he were irate enough to do so. How is he going to provide evidence of her intent? She had to have *KNOWINGLY* filed a false report, not just filed a report that later proved to be in error. As long as she states she believed at the time that the phone was stolen, there was no proven intent, and therefore, no case. They actually have a better case against the OP for being in posession of stolen property, but obviously he hasn't been charged. Cops don't have the time to run around chasing bullshit crimes without sufficient evidence a crime was actually committed. That's the difference between theoretical law and real world law.
XS11E - 07 May 2008 22:03 GMT >>>>>>> She decides to get even and tells Verizon the phone is >>>>>>> stolen. So now it cannot be used. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > believed at the time that the phone was stolen, there was no > proven intent, and therefore, no case. He GAVE her the phone, he kept it when they split, she did not believe nor could she have believed the phone was stolen.
> They actually have a better case against the OP for being in > posession of stolen property, Hogwash.
> Cops don't have the time to run around chasing bullshit crimes > without sufficient evidence a crime was actually committed. > That's the difference between theoretical law and real world law. More hogwash, real world practicality says she would remove the stolen report when threatened with the false report charge and allow the phone to be registered. All that's needed is to contact the police, they'll do the rest.
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The Ghost of General Lee - 07 May 2008 22:23 GMT >>>>>>>> She decides to get even and tells Verizon the phone is >>>>>>>> stolen. So now it cannot be used. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >He GAVE her the phone, he kept it when they split, she did not >believe nor could she have believed the phone was stolen. And which point it becomes a pissing contest between ex-lovers. Yeah, the cops are certainly going to believe one side's word over another in that.
>> They actually have a better case against the OP for being in >> posession of stolen property, > >Hogwash. He claimed to have posession of property that was reported stolen. Do you deny that?
>> Cops don't have the time to run around chasing bullshit crimes >> without sufficient evidence a crime was actually committed. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >to be registered. All that's needed is to contact the police, they'll >do the rest. It's obvious you have no experience in dealing with law enforcement, prosecutors, or the courts. You're about as bad as Larry's "lawyer" tales. If she "removes" the stolen property report, she walks *with* the phone. After all, it was *her* phone. Verizon says so, and they have the records to prove it.
XS11E - 08 May 2008 17:48 GMT >>He GAVE her the phone, he kept it when they split, she did not >>believe nor could she have believed the phone was stolen. > > And which point it becomes a pissing contest between ex-lovers. > Yeah, the cops are certainly going to believe one side's word over > another in that. No, he has documentation to prove he purcheased the phone. He says it's lost but there's always cancelled checks, credit card receipts or, if necessary, he can contact the original seller and get documentation from them.
>>> They actually have a better case against the OP for being in >>> posession of stolen property, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > He claimed to have posession of property that was reported stolen. > Do you deny that? He can prove ownership, see above.
>>> Cops don't have the time to run around chasing bullshit crimes >>> without sufficient evidence a crime was actually committed. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > It's obvious you have no experience in dealing with law > enforcement, prosecutors, or the courts. I have a LOT of experience it that area, I was just about to say the same about you, you've certainly proven it.
> You're about as bad as Larry's "lawyer" tales. If she "removes" > the stolen property report, she walks *with* the phone. After > all, it was *her* phone. Verizon says so, and they have the > records to prove it. Wrong again, as always, he has or will have the records to prove purchase. Try keeping up, OK?
I hope the guy with the phone pays attention to someone who knows what he's talking about and not the "Ghost of General Ignorance."
I'm done here. Go spout your wrong information to others.
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The Ghost of General Lee - 08 May 2008 23:48 GMT >>>He GAVE her the phone, he kept it when they split, she did not >>>believe nor could she have believed the phone was stolen. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >or, if necessary, he can contact the original seller and get >documentation from them. Just because you can prove you bought it doesn't necessarily mean you can prove you own it. I still have the receipt where I purchased an MP3 player for my daughter, but that doesn't mean it's mine. Someone can purchase something, keep the receipt, and sell or otherwise transfer an item to another person. Their posession of the original receipt isn't proof positive of their ownership. And the OP stated, the boyfriend did not have the receipt, so even that point is moot. But even if he did, the girlfriend would get the phone back and both will be told it's a civil matter, that there's nothing the police can do about it. You said it yourself above, "He GAVE her the phone." End of story.
>>>> They actually have a better case against the OP for being in >>>> posession of stolen property, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >He can prove ownership, see above. He can't prove sh.t. See above.
>>>> Cops don't have the time to run around chasing bullshit crimes >>>> without sufficient evidence a crime was actually committed. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I have a LOT of experience it that area, I was just about to say the >same about you, you've certainly proven it. You sure couldn't prove it by your posts in this thread. You think the cops should automatically take someone's word for something with no proof offered. How pathetic.
>> You're about as bad as Larry's "lawyer" tales. If she "removes" >> the stolen property report, she walks *with* the phone. After [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Wrong again, as always, he has or will have the records to prove >purchase. Try keeping up, OK? I guess you failed to read where the guy didn't have the receipts, huh? And what about VZW's records showing the phone belonged to *her* account?
>I hope the guy with the phone pays attention to someone who knows what >he's talking about and not the "Ghost of General Ignorance." I'm beginning to think you believe my posts here are because I think the girlfriend did nothing wrong. Far from it. I just know what levels of proof are needed to prove ownership or theft/filing a false police report. They are two different levels. One is by preponderance of the evidence, the other is beyond reasonable doubt.
I might remind you that *you* are the only one here trying to tell the OP that the boyfriend has some legal right to have the cops use coercion to get a cell phone transferred to him which he has no legal right to. If he did have a right to it, the matter would have been settled long before the OP posted here. Again, you've admitted he GAVE it to her. Beyond that, there's nothing left to discuss.
>I'm done here. Go spout your wrong information to others. Yeah, you're done, because you don't know your a.s from a hole in the ground. You lack basic understand of criminal law, civil torts, and evidentiary requirements. I take it back, you are worse than Larry. At least his half-truths sound somewhat convincing.
Strongbox - 09 May 2008 16:46 GMT >>>>He GAVE her the phone, he kept it when they split, she did not >>>>believe nor could she have believed the phone was stolen. [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > evidentiary requirements. I take it back, you are worse than Larry. > At least his half-truths sound somewhat convincing. I work in law enforcement. General Lee is correct. The OP is screwed.
No cop is going to waste his time on a stolen item valued at a couple hundred dollars. The OP's best option is small claims court, but without the supporting paperwork no magistrate will rule in his favor.
Its best to pick your girlfriends cautiously.
XS11E - 09 May 2008 17:04 GMT > I work in law enforcement. General Lee is correct. The OP is > screwed. General Ignorance is seldom correct and the OP isn't screwed, he's not the one with the phone who's ex-girlfriend filed the stolen phone report, all the OP has to worry about is buying a phone somewhere.
> No cop is going to waste his time on a stolen item valued at a > couple hundred dollars. You believe the police won't follow up a complaint of filing a false report? They'd become an ex-cop here very quickly.
> The OP's best option is small claims court, but without the > supporting paperwork no magistrate will rule in his favor. He'll have the supporting paperwork, of course. He'll have to get it but there IS a paper trail unless he bought the phone for cash from a guy in a dark alley.
> Its best to pick your girlfriends cautiously. People never do, do they?
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Strongbox - 09 May 2008 17:40 GMT > You believe the police won't follow up a complaint of filing a false > report? They'd become an ex-cop here very quickly. It's very hard to prove someone "willingly" filed the false report, which in most states is required to proceed with the charges. Your state might vary on this, but I personally know of none that do.
If the complaintent has no evidence to support his accusations the officer must make a judgment call on whether it's worth it to proceed with what could be a time (and tax dollars) consuming effort. Many police reports are filed for small dollar losses for insurance company purposes. Very few are pursued for false filings.
Dean - 09 May 2008 22:43 GMT Exactly.
The phone is worthless. Pursuing this would be a waste of time for everyone involved. All for a $35 used LG. Geez...
In regard to the false report BS....I don't even want to know how one would plan to prove the report was false WHEN IT WAS FILED....you gotta be kidding me.....
For cryin' out loud, donate the paperweight to the local battered women's shelter, take the tax deduction, break down and spend a few dollars.
I have a mint used LG with a CLEAN ESN. If I cleared $25 on it from eBay, I'd think Christmas came early!!!.
Dean
>> You believe the police won't follow up a complaint of filing a false >> report? They'd become an ex-cop here very quickly. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > are > pursued for false filings. The Ghost of General Lee - 10 May 2008 07:41 GMT >> I work in law enforcement. General Lee is correct. The OP is >> screwed. > >General Ignorance is seldom correct Translation: "He proved me to be wrong and I'm pissed about it."
You're just pissed because your knowledge of the law is limited to what you've seen on television or the movies. If I am "seldom correct", then I'm sure you can point out a few examples where I was supposedly wrong. Go ahead, I'll wait...
>and the OP isn't screwed, he's not >the one with the phone who's ex-girlfriend filed the stolen phone [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >You believe the police won't follow up a complaint of filing a false >report? They'd become an ex-cop here very quickly. Let's see if you can wrap your head around an example.
I go to Sears and buy a set of Craftsman wrenches and put them on my Sears credit card. I have the receipt that proves I paid for them. A few days later, you do some work on my car and we agree that in exchange for your labor, I'm going to give you the wrenches. Nothing is in writing, because after all, it's just a set of wrenches.
Being a nice set of wrenches, you engrave your driver's license number on them so they can be uniquely identified if they are lost or stolen. A couple of years later, you do some more work for me and when you are done, you accidentally leave the wrenches at my home. Upon seeing those nice wrenches again, I decide I want them again, so I keep them and refuse to give them back. You go to the police and claim that the wrenches belong to you, as proved by your DL number on them. And since I have them and won't give them back, you consider them stolen and file a report.
When they question me about the wrenches, I show them the receipt and the cops tell you since I have the receipt, the wrenches must be mine. Is that fair? I have a receipt, but you have a unique number on them which ties them to you. Then they tell you since I have "proven" they are mine, unless you rescind the complaint, you will be charged with filing a false police report. Again I ask, would you consider this to be fair to you? Now, with all else the same, let's imagine I paid cash for them, and lost the receipt, but I still claim them as mine. According to your logic, my claim is all that matters, and even though they have numbers on them that 3rd party records prove are linked to you and you alone, you lose your wrenches. Still want to continue with this line of argument?
>> The OP's best option is small claims court, but without the >> supporting paperwork no magistrate will rule in his favor. > >He'll have the supporting paperwork, of course. He'll have to get it >but there IS a paper trail unless he bought the phone for cash from a >guy in a dark alley. What supporting paperwork? It's been pointed out to you previously that the BF said he did NOT have a receipt, and that he likely paid in cash. So where is this magical paperwork going to come from? And how does this negate the fact he GAVE the phone to her, a fact to which you've already admitted? Please tell us, Mr. Lawyer?
>> Its best to pick your girlfriends cautiously. > >People never do, do they? I think the more important advice here is never allow a phone you purchased to be activated on someone else's account unless you are willing to lose it. If you want to secure the future ownership of a cellular phone, in the absence of a written agreement, only activate it on *your* account.
jgrove24@hotmail.com - 08 May 2008 22:50 GMT On May 6, 1:39 pm, Tin Man Alley <nowh...@wouldntyouliketoknow.com> wrote:
> So here is the problem at hand. > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Tim This sounds like a prison yard course on "washing" hot phones. My girlfriend... blah blah blah.
JG
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