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Cellular Phone Forum / General / General Topics / February 2010T-Mobile upgrades their 3G network to HSPA 7.2
"T-Mobile USA said it deployed HSPA 7.2 network technology--technically twice as fast as its previous 3G network--across its entire footprint. The carrier also reiterated its plans to deploy the even faster HSPA+ technology across the bulk of its network this year. T-Mobile first disclosed its HSPA+ aspirations last year, and recently began HSPA+ trials in Philadelphia. T-Mobile's decision to deploy HSPA 7.2 across its footprint is an intermediate step toward HSPA+, which can technically provide peak data speeds of 21 Mbps." http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/t-mobile-upgrades-3g-footprint-hspa- 7-2/2010-01-05 Thoughts: ** It's about time! ** Next time I replace my phone, I can actually SERIOUSLY consider a 3G device. Here in Victorville, 70 miles northeast of downtown Los Angeles, 3G didn't even exist until halfway through last year, due to T-Mobile's inability to build out, which in turn was due to their lack of available wireless spectrum (they bought a large chunk in 2007 and weren't able to really start doing any kind of 3G buildout until then). But I'm happy to see that they've upgraded. T-Mo's customer service is light-years better than Sprint's or Verizon's -- I've been a customer of all three. Sprint CS was not bad for us pre-merger, but sucked afterwards. Verizon flat-out lied to me about problems they were having in Victorville (in front of their company-owned retail store, which I am fond of pointing out) for six months, at which point my contract expired and I left them. Their network is still not as large as at&t's or Sprint's or Verizon's. This is ok for my family. They have good coverage where we need it (and that's what's important). And their customer service, in my opinion, is the best in the industry.  SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, California, USA sjsobol@JustThe.net Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in news:MPG.25ce5a1cdb93b1ba989896 @news.justthe.net: > T-Mobile first disclosed its HSPA+ aspirations last year, and recently > began HSPA+ trials in Philadelphia. T-Mobile's decision to deploy HSPA > 7.2 across its footprint is an intermediate step toward HSPA+, which can > technically provide peak data speeds of 21 Mbps." 5GB/month gets sucked up in half the time on 20Mbps as it does on 10Mbps.....so, what's the point?? Signature"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!" Larry > Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in news:MPG.25ce5a1cdb93b1ba989896 > @news.justthe.net: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > 5GB/month gets sucked up in half the time on 20Mbps as it does on > 10Mbps.....so, what's the point?? Once again, you're talking about something you know nothing about. T- Mobile doesn't have the 5GB restriction. SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, California, USA sjsobol@JustThe.net > Once again, you're talking about something you know nothing about. T- > Mobile doesn't have the 5GB restriction. http://www.t-mobile.com/Templates/Popup.aspx?PAsset=Pln_Lst_DataPlan "2. Protective Measures To provide a good experience for the majority of our customers and minimize capacity issues and degradation in network performance, we may take measures including temporarily reducing data throughput for a subset of customers who use a disproportionate amount of bandwidth; if your total usage exceeds 10GB (amount is subject to change; please ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ periodically check T-Mobile.com for updates) during a billing cycle, we may reduce your data speed for the remainder of that billing cycle. We may also suspend, terminate, or restrict your data session, Plan, or service if you use your Data Plan in a manner that interferes with other customers’ service, our ability to allocate network capacity among customers, or that otherwise may degrade service quality for other customers." Unlimited my a.s. 10GB isn't UNLIMITED. 10GB is 10/.0003G/sec = 33,333 seconds = 9.26 hours of 300Kbps internet TV. Same sh.t Verizon got beat up for from the NY State Atty Gen Cuomo. FCC and FTC need to bust all their a.ses and start doing their jobs. UNLIMITED means WITHOUT LIMITS. Every sellphone data access has limits...5GB or 10GB, not UNLIMITED. Signature"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!" Larry > > Once again, you're talking about something you know nothing about. T- > > Mobile doesn't have the 5GB restriction. > > http://www.t-mobile.com/Templates/Popup.aspx?PAsset=Pln_Lst_DataPlan OK, it's 10GB, so I'm not wrong :P I said there was no 5GB restriction. > Unlimited my a.s. 10GB isn't UNLIMITED. 10GB is 10/.0003G/sec = 33,333 > seconds = 9.26 hours of 300Kbps internet TV. > Same sh.t Verizon got beat up for from the NY State Atty Gen Cuomo. ONLY IF they advertise it as unlimited. Now, I have only briefly surfed the relevant part of the website, but I see they do advertise some services as unlimited, which is a bad idea if the service isn't actually unlimited. Jeez, you'd think T-Mo would have learned their lesson from Verizon's screwup. Such restrictions don't make sense when carriers are trying to sell streaming video services. SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, California, USA sjsobol@JustThe.net > Now, I have only briefly surfed the relevant part of the website, but I > see they do advertise some services as unlimited, which is a bad idea if [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Such restrictions don't make sense when carriers are trying to sell > streaming video services. I should point out that I'm never likely to hit a 10Gb limit, or even a 5Gb limit, on a 3G handset. The real question, since I can buy a USB dongle and connect my laptop to the internet via T-Mo 3G, is whether the restrictions apply to that type of connection also. SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, California, USA sjsobol@JustThe.net > I should point out that I'm never likely to hit a 10Gb limit, or even a > 5Gb limit, on a 3G handset. > > The real question, since I can buy a USB dongle and connect my laptop to > the internet via T-Mo 3G, is whether the restrictions apply to that type > of connection also. Worse- T-Mo's laptop plan has a 5GB cap, same as the other carriers. You're better off getting a 3G phone that can tether via USB, and (ab) using T-Mo's "don't ask, don't tell" tethering policy. > > I should point out that I'm never likely to hit a 10Gb limit, or even a > > 5Gb limit, on a 3G handset. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > You're better off getting a 3G phone that can tether via USB, and (ab) > using T-Mo's "don't ask, don't tell" tethering policy. I looked at their laptop plan, it doesn't have the 5GB cap. The terms say it has the same 10GB cap as their other plans do. SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, California, USA sjsobol@JustThe.net >> > I should point out that I'm never likely to hit a 10Gb limit, or even a >> > 5Gb limit, on a 3G handset. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I looked at their laptop plan, it doesn't have the 5GB cap. The terms > say it has the same 10GB cap as their other plans do. The plan itself disagrees with that: <http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/cell-phone-plans-detail.aspx?tp=tb1&rateplan= T-Mobile-webConnect-Data> "Our data plan includes: a.. E-mail and Web browsing up to 5GB usage per month b.. Additional Web access beyond 5GB at $0.20/MB" >You're better off getting a 3G phone that can tether via USB, and (ab) >using T-Mo's "don't ask, don't tell" tethering policy. Or tether over Bluetooth PAN (e.g., Sony Ericsson TM506). SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? > Or tether over Bluetooth PAN (e.g., Sony Ericsson TM506). N800's do BT PAN. Works great. Signature"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!" Larry >>You're better off getting a 3G phone that can tether via USB, and (ab) >>using T-Mo's "don't ask, don't tell" tethering policy. > > Or tether over Bluetooth PAN (e.g., Sony Ericsson TM506). What's the connection speed limitation with BT PAN these days? Is it still a bottleneck in 3G connections? >>>You're better off getting a 3G phone that can tether via USB, and (ab) >>>using T-Mo's "don't ask, don't tell" tethering policy. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >What's the connection speed limitation with BT PAN these days? Is it still >a bottleneck in 3G connections? Bluetooth 2.0 EDR supports data transfer speeds up to 2.1 Mbps. SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? >>>>You're better off getting a 3G phone that can tether via USB, and (ab) >>>>using T-Mo's "don't ask, don't tell" tethering policy. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Bluetooth 2.0 EDR supports data transfer speeds up to 2.1 Mbps. In theory, yes, but I've seen a few complaints online from those who've claimed they lose throughput using BT vs. USB. I was just wondering what your experiences were. Also, some folks on HoFo claimed to have hit 3Mbps in T-Mo's HSPA 7.2 test market (Philly, IIRC.) "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote in news:SU5bn.17502 $3n2.2133@newsfe01.iad: >>>>>You're better off getting a 3G phone that can tether via USB, and (ab) >>>>>using T-Mo's "don't ask, don't tell" tethering policy. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Also, some folks on HoFo claimed to have hit 3Mbps in T-Mo's HSPA 7.2 test > market (Philly, IIRC.) If your BT 9.9 is operating in a total RF vacuum it's fairly fast and doesn't cause troubles. But, alas, those days are over. Your BT 9.9 device is inundated with BT packets its sharing time slots with from all the headsets, A2DP stereo, passing cars, that damned guy with the BT mouse that makes your BT stereo headset lock every time he drags the mouse across the screen, and every unsecured printer broadcasting incessantly in all the offices around you. I use a Motorola S9HD stereo headset with a Motorola ROKR Z6m phone playing stereo A2DP over the BT, which hogs a LOT of available data time sending music to the headphone. Walk into any computer department like Best Buy and the damned headset might as well be turned off because you cannot use it in that very busy environment of laptops, printers, car stereos, phones, etc., inside the big box store. USELESS. It will even fail to run smoothly if you hold the damned phone antennas right up against the headset antennas! BT PAN sucks compared to a PAN on wifi to swap files and stuff over. I stick my Cradlepoint 350 tiny router and its home made battery pack in my coat pocket to connect everyone to to share files in a public place. That never balks, even if the restaurant has free wifi. BT sucks in comparison. Signature"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!" Larry > If your BT 9.9 is operating in a total RF vacuum it's fairly fast and > doesn't cause troubles. But, alas, those days are over. Your BT 9.9 > device is inundated with BT packets its sharing time slots with from all There aren't any time slots, they all try to talk over each other. It is spread spectrum so that works sometimes, but if there are a lot them sharing the band in a small space the littlest guys begin to lose out. > BT PAN sucks compared to a PAN on wifi to swap files and stuff over. I > stick my Cradlepoint 350 tiny router and its home made battery pack in > my coat pocket to connect everyone to to share files in a public place. > That never balks, even if the restaurant has free wifi. BT sucks in > comparison. I guess that would be the difference between 2.5 mW Bluetooth and, what, maybe 20 or 50 mW WiFi. Power is your friend, though it makes the batteries heavier to carry around. There is a lot to be said for wires, with wires you can get by with microwatts. Dennis Ferguson >If your BT 9.9 is operating in a total RF vacuum it's fairly fast and >doesn't cause troubles. But, alas, those days are over. Your BT 9.9 [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >fail to run smoothly if you hold the damned phone antennas right up >against the headset antennas! Your problem is probably your device, not the technology -- I'm not seeing such problems with my Bluetooth devices (e.g., Microsoft Bluetooth Notebook Mouse). >BT PAN sucks compared to a PAN on wifi to swap files and stuff over. I >stick my Cradlepoint 350 tiny router and its home made battery pack in >my coat pocket to connect everyone to to share files in a public place. >That never balks, even if the restaurant has free wifi. BT sucks in >comparison. It's dangerous to generalize from a single datapoint. SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? > Your problem is probably your device, not the technology -- I'm not > seeing such problems with my Bluetooth devices (e.g., Microsoft > Bluetooth Notebook Mouse). Have you ever walked around a busy Best Buy computer department using a bluetooth mouse? I didn't think so.... Try it sometime..... Signature"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!" Larry >> Your problem is probably your device, not the technology -- I'm not >> seeing such problems with my Bluetooth devices (e.g., Microsoft >> Bluetooth Notebook Mouse). > >Have you ever walked around a busy Best Buy computer department using a >bluetooth mouse? No. >I didn't think so.... Good guess. >Try it sometime..... Whatever for? The mouse needs a surface to work on, and I avoid Worst Buy as much as possible. OTOH, I have used the mouse without difficulty in crowded 2.4 GHz environments that are probably worse than Worst Buy, along with other BT products like my cell phone and headset, notebook computer tethering over BT, etc, etc. No problemo. As I wrote... * Your problem is probably your device, not the technology. * It's dangerous to generalize from a single datapoint. SignatureBest regards, John Navas "We have met the enemy and he is us" -Pogo >>>>>You're better off getting a 3G phone that can tether via USB, and (ab) >>>>>using T-Mo's "don't ask, don't tell" tethering policy. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >claimed they lose throughput using BT vs. USB. I was just wondering what >your experiences were. My experience is that Bluetooth isn't a bottleneck -- I get the same speeds over Bluetooth that I do over USB, confirmed by several tests. >Also, some folks on HoFo claimed to have hit 3Mbps in T-Mo's HSPA 7.2 test >market (Philly, IIRC.) I've not seen speeds that high (yet) here in the Bay Area even over USB. SignatureBest regards, John <http:/navasgroup.com> If the iPhone is really so impressive, why do iFans keep making excuses for it? >> Bluetooth 2.0 EDR supports data transfer speeds up to 2.1 Mbps. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Also, some folks on HoFo claimed to have hit 3Mbps in T-Mo's HSPA 7.2 > test market (Philly, IIRC.) BT sucks in a busy environment where there are lots of BT devices in the same area. Hell, at any Best Buy, my BT Motorola S9HD stereo headset starts balking and locking as soon as I enter the front door from all the noise of the open printers, car radios, laptops, etc., all broadcasting away looking for a connection. Walk outside and all returns to working fine. Signature"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!" Larry > The real question, since I can buy a USB dongle and connect my laptop to > the internet via T-Mo 3G, is whether the restrictions apply to that type > of connection also. Restricted in the same way. If you use 10GB/month, you are an abuser, obviously, demanding data in exchange for money. How silly. Signature"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!" Larry >> The real question, since I can buy a USB dongle and connect my laptop to >> the internet via T-Mo 3G, is whether the restrictions apply to that type >> of connection also. > > Restricted in the same way. If you use 10GB/month, you are an abuser, > obviously, demanding data in exchange for money. How silly. Yes, but Steve could tether 10GB of 3G data on a dumbphone for $10/month, vs. 5GB of data on an aircard for $60. > > > Once again, you're talking about something you know nothing about. T- > > > Mobile doesn't have the 5GB restriction. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Such restrictions don't make sense when carriers are trying to sell > streaming video services. The 10GB limit is a soft-cap, not a hard limit. At 10GB, T-Mo reserves the right to limit connection speed- effectively putting you back on 2G the rest of the month. They do NOT stop you from consuming even more data. FWIW, according to the data "abusers" at HoFo, they've never actually done it. >>>> Once again, you're talking about something you know nothing about. > T- [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > FWIW, according to the data "abusers" at HoFo, they've never actually > done it. That's certainly fair. The big problem are plans with hard caps that start charging you extra without warning if you go over the limit. That kind of plan can get really expensive. Mike Schumann SignatureMike Schumann Mike Schumann <mike-nospam@traditions-nospam.com> wrote in news:PSX9n.26130 $fu3.21854@newsfe12.iad: > That's certainly fair. The big problem are plans with hard caps that > start charging you extra without warning if you go over the limit. That > kind of plan can get really expensive. > > Mike Schumann It's NOT fair. "UNLIMITED" means WITHOUT LIMIT(S). Any arbitrary threat to shut down the bandwidth is NOT "unlimited". NY Atty General Cuomo already tried that with Verizon who paid bigtime and changed all their ads. Verizon has no "unlimited" internet service, and it's only fair FTC makes the rest of them stop telling this lie. I have "unlimited" cable internet at home. I can download 24/7 as much as I like without the company threatening to cut me off or drop my bandwidth or do anything nasty to me. No goons show up at my door threatening me if I use what I pay Knology for. I suppose it could be argued it's not really "unlimited" because it has a modem speed cap I accepted at signup. "Unlimited" would technically mean data was delivered as fast as the technology could deliver it or as fast as my hardware could consume it. Unlimited is a slippery slope that really needs to be court tested by the FTC, who's job it is to prosecute lies against the consumers. None of the sellphone companies should be allowed to have "unlimited" in any of their ads as there is no unlimited service offered. Think your unlimited phone service is unlimited? Call someone every morning and talk for 8 hours and see what happens to you..... Unlimited phone service, nothing happens.... Even Skype Out "unlimited" isn't. But, at 64,000 minutes a month before they question your calling habits, the limit borders on absurd...(c;] Signature"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!" Larry > Mike Schumann <mike-nospam@traditions-nospam.com> wrote in > news:PSX9n.26130 [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Even Skype Out "unlimited" isn't. But, at 64,000 minutes a month before > they question your calling habits, the limit borders on absurd...(c;] How is that "absurd" when you've already said 'It's NOT fair. "UNLIMITED" means WITHOUT LIMIT(S). Any arbitrary threat to shut down the bandwidth is NOT "unlimited".' Do you move the goalposts when it's a service you use? 64,000 minutes is certainly "absurd" since a month only has about 40,000 minutes. In reality, Skype's policy is "Calls to phones and mobiles and Skype To Go* calls are included in your subscription subject to a fair usage limit of 10,000 minutes per user per month, with a maximum of 6 hours per day." But even at 10,000 minutes/6 hours a day, Skype is limiting you. If the "linit" is so "absurd" as to be meaningless, why doesn't Skype just call it a 10,000 minutes/month plan? People used to blast Cingular in the Cingular NG when their free N&W plans "only" included 5000 N&W minutes rather than unlimited, despite there only being about 20,000 N&W minutes in a month. While certainly T-Mo is stretching the definition of "unlimited" a wee bit, 10GB of on-phone data is hardly any more or less absurd than 10000 minutes, and after that T-Mo still doesn't charge a dime extra or cut you off- they just slow you down. "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote in news:zB8an.88466 $1m3.80083@newsfe11.iad: >> Mike Schumann <mike-nospam@traditions-nospam.com> wrote in >> news:PSX9n.26130 [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > and after that T-Mo still doesn't charge a dime extra or cut you off- they > just slow you down. Ok, you win. Skype is limited service.... Signature"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!" Larry > Such restrictions don't make sense when carriers are trying to sell > streaming video services. They want to reserve bandwidth for THEIR video streaming services, but prevent all others from streaming to it. Someone needs to bust their sorry a.ses over the NET NEUTRALITY of that nonsense. Signature"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!" Larry |
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