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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Cingular / November 2005do you lose your rollover minutes if you change plans and/or drop a family shared plan phone?
I have a tremendous number of rollover minutes available on my 1000-minute shared family plan, and was thinking of dropping a phone and/or moving to a smaller-base minute plan . if I do this, do I lose all my saved rollover minutes ? > I have a tremendous number of rollover minutes available on my > 1000-minute shared family plan, and was thinking of dropping a phone > and/or moving to a smaller-base minute plan . if I do this, do I lose > all my saved rollover minutes ? I've changed plans and kept the minutes, not sure about dropping a phone though. No, you don't loose your rollover minutes. >I have a tremendous number of rollover minutes available on my > 1000-minute shared family plan, and was thinking of dropping a phone > and/or moving to a smaller-base minute plan . if I do this, do I lose > all my saved rollover minutes ? >No, you don't loose your rollover minutes. > >>I have a tremendous number of rollover minutes available on my >> 1000-minute shared family plan, and was thinking of dropping a phone >> and/or moving to a smaller-base minute plan . if I do this, do I lose >> all my saved rollover minutes ? Depends. Add/remove family member from 1 acct., ok. Switch min. in same plan set, ok. Switch from one coverage set to another, or going from CDMA to GSM, no. Unless they've changed something since I asked a rep. this very question, this should still hold. -- _____________________________________________________ For email response, or CC, please mailto:see.my.sig.4.addr(at)bigfoot.com. Yeah, it's really a real address :) >Switch from one coverage set to another, or going from CDMA to GSM, no. cingular has *never* been CDMA! - - >>Switch from one coverage set to another, or going from CDMA to GSM, no. > >cingular has *never* been CDMA! I suspect that was a typo, that TDMA was what was meant.  SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> Yes, they have recently made a change in the rollover minutes policy. When you change plans (inc. minutes within the same type of plan) your rollover minutes that transfer are equal to the monthly minutes of your new plan. If you change to a plan that give you 800 minutes per month than 800 of your rollover minutes will transfer. Fred > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I suspect that was a typo, that TDMA was what was meant. IANAL*, but I don't think Cingular can legally disentitle you retroactively, only prospectively; i.e., you should be able to keep all minutes earned before any such change went into effect. * I Am Not A Lawyer. >Yes, they have recently made a change in the rollover minutes policy. When >you change plans (inc. minutes within the same type of plan) your rollover >minutes that transfer are equal to the monthly minutes of your new plan. If >you change to a plan that give you 800 minutes per month than 800 of your >rollover minutes will transfer. >> In <le94m113ckqufipter86c187jgqtq8li9m@4ax.com> on Fri, 28 Oct 2005 >> 06:21:40 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> I suspect that was a typo, that TDMA was what was meant. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> p.s. That's not in the current terms and conditions. Unless and until it is, it wouldn't be binding in any event. Current actual language on Rollover <http://onlinestored.cingular.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ES_AUX_PLAN_TERMS.jsp> Rollover Minutes: Rollover Minutes accumulate and expire through 12 rolling bill periods. Bill Period 1 (activation) unused Anytime Minutes will not carry over. Bill Period 2 unused Anytime Minutes will begin to carry over. Rollover Minutes accumulated starting with Bill Period 2 will expire each bill period as they reach a 12 bill period age. ROLLOVER MINUTES WILL ALSO EXPIRE IMMEDIATELY UPON DEFAULT OR IF CUSTOMER CHANGES TO A NON-ROLLOVER PLAN. Rollover Minutes are not redeemable for cash or credit and are not transferable. Night and Weekend and Mobile to Mobile minutes do not carry over. [emphasis added] >Yes, they have recently made a change in the rollover minutes policy. When >you change plans (inc. minutes within the same type of plan) your rollover >minutes that transfer are equal to the monthly minutes of your new plan. If >you change to a plan that give you 800 minutes per month than 800 of your >rollover minutes will transfer. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> > p.s. That's not in the current terms and conditions. Unless and until it is, > it wouldn't be binding in any event. Current actual language on Rollover <http://onlinestored.cingular.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ES_AUX_PLAN_TERM S.jsp> > Rollover Minutes: Rollover Minutes accumulate and expire through 12 > rolling bill periods. Bill Period 1 (activation) unused Anytime [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >you change to a plan that give you 800 minutes per month than 800 of your > >rollover minutes will transfer. While I agree that losing the rollover minutes ,may not be right - I am reasonably certain that it is as described before, inasmuch as if you have 12,285 roll over minutes on a plan that gives 1000 minutes a month and you change to a plan with 800 a month then you keep ONLY the 800. No more. >> p.s. That's not in the current terms and conditions. Unless and until it is, >> it wouldn't be binding in any event. Current actual language on Rollover [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >you change to a plan that give you 800 minutes per month than 800 of your >> >rollover minutes will transfer. >While I agree that losing the rollover minutes ,may not be right - I am >reasonably certain that it is as described before, inasmuch as if you have >12,285 roll over minutes on a plan that gives 1000 minutes a month and you >change to a plan with 800 a month then you keep ONLY the 800. No more. I'm reasonably certain that with a bit of persistence you could keep all your Rollover minutes. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> on 10/28/2005 11:00 PM John Navas said the following: > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I'm reasonably certain that with a bit of persistence you could keep all your > Rollover minutes. Even more likely if you happen to be considering a change from, say, a 700 minute plan to a 1200 minute plan. You have "booked" 8,000 minutes on the 700 minute plan and you find out that you're going to lose 6,800 minutes when you upgrade. Where the incentive (hell, I'm trying to find the reason for the upgrade in this instance) to upgrade now? Seems that SBC is shooting themselves in the foot. The catch is that for every one subscriber who's savvy about this change and will fight it, there are probably two hundred ignorant sheep who will just not get it and let it slide. >on 10/28/2005 11:00 PM John Navas said the following: >>>>>Yes, they have recently made a change in the rollover minutes policy. When >>>>>you change plans (inc. minutes within the same type of plan) your rollover [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >and will fight it, there are probably two hundred ignorant sheep who >will just not get it and let it slide. It's worth noting that this is probably about closing a Rollover loophole: A wise shopper could sign up for a high-minute plan, bank a lot of cheap minutes, and then switch to a low-minute plan to work them down, repeating the process when the bank is exhausted, as a way of lowering per minute cost. I personally doubt that kind of gaming was terribly significant, but it's probably not what was intended. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> on 10/31/2005 12:20 PM John Navas said the following: > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I personally doubt that kind of gaming was terribly significant, but it's > probably not what was intended. I agree but why "penalize" those who are _upgrading_ their packages? A woman who works for me just upgraded to a plan with twice the minutes she had before - believe the new plan is around 700 minutes. She had several thousand minutes on her old, smaller plan and they only transferred the 700. She lost the rest. Like you, I follow the logic if someone is downgrading a 1200 or 1500 minute plan they've had for, say, five months and moving it to a 200 minute plan or whatever. I suspect this is the "law of unintended consequences" kicking in. How many folks have a 400 minute plan, build up a bank of 8,000 minutes and then UPGRADE from that?<g> The only reason she did it was to create a family plan with her son and aged mother included. She figured she might need more minutes. Unfortunately for her, she didn't think it out. Her old plan had enough monthly anytime minutes to support the family plan. I think she could have just added the additional lines and kept her rollover minutes in their entirely. Then, once she used them up and started going over the monthly allotment, she could have migrated to a higher minute plan, correct? >on 10/31/2005 12:20 PM John Navas said the following: >> It's worth noting that this is probably about closing a Rollover loophole: >> A wise shopper could sign up for a high-minute plan, bank a lot of cheap [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >many folks have a 400 minute plan, build up a bank of 8,000 minutes and >then UPGRADE from that?<g> I agree. >The only reason she did it was to create a family plan with her son and >aged mother included. She figured she might need more minutes. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >their entirely. Then, once she used them up and started going over the >monthly allotment, she could have migrated to a higher minute plan, correct? Indeed, and I think she might have a good chance of getting this adjusted if she makes that point firmly to Cingular Escalation (not first-tier Customer Service). SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> > It's worth noting that this is probably about closing a Rollover loophole: > A wise shopper could sign up for a high-minute plan, bank a lot of cheap > minutes, and then switch to a low-minute plan to work them down, repeating the > process when the bank is exhausted, as a way of lowering per minute cost. > I personally doubt that kind of gaming was terribly significant, but it's > probably not what was intended. Maybe not, but it was what the reps were selling. I know, John. I was there--on the customer end, listening to it. Why would someone move up to a 1200 minute plan when they were not using all of the 700 minute plan? If you know your long term average usage is going up, then stay on the 700 minute plan until the 8000 minutes that you have banked are almost used up before switching to a higher level plan. > on 10/28/2005 11:00 PM John Navas said the following: > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > and will fight it, there are probably two hundred ignorant sheep who > will just not get it and let it slide. > Why would someone move up to a 1200 minute plan when they were not > using all of the 700 minute plan? If you know your long term average > usage is going up, then stay on the 700 minute plan until the 8000 > minutes that you have banked are almost used up before switching to a > higher level plan. I agree. See my subsequent dialogue with John. It DOESN'T make much sense when you have those rollover minutes on tap. In the case I am familiar with (one of my employees) bumped up to go to a family plan to include her grown son and aged mother. She "thought" she might well need the additional minutes and bumped the package without thinking it out. sh.t happens. Personally, I cannot think of any reason for ANYONE to lose minutes on this scheme through UPGRADING. Unfortunately it can and does happen. Like you say, the smart way is to plod along and burn up those rollover minutes before changing the plan. >> Why would someone move up to a 1200 minute plan when they were not >> using all of the 700 minute plan? If you know your long term average [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Like you say, the smart way is to plod along and burn up those rollover >minutes before changing the plan. Such expiration should only be applicable to minutes accumulated *after* the change in terms (i.e., not retroactively). As of at least October 28, 2005, the terms and conditions on Rollover were: <http://onlinestored.cingular.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ES_AUX_PLAN_TERMS.jsp> Rollover Minutes: Rollover Minutes accumulate and expire through 12 rolling bill periods. Bill Period 1 (activation) unused Anytime Minutes will not carry over. Bill Period 2 unused Anytime Minutes will begin to carry over. Rollover Minutes accumulated starting with Bill Period 2 will expire each bill period as they reach a 12 bill period age. ROLLOVER MINUTES WILL ALSO EXPIRE IMMEDIATELY UPON DEFAULT OR IF CUSTOMER CHANGES TO A NON-ROLLOVER PLAN. Rollover Minutes are not redeemable for cash or credit and are not transferable. Night and Weekend and Mobile to Mobile minutes do not carry over. [emphasis added] This page has now been taken down. The Google cached copy is at <http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:IE-BaxZKTjUJ:onlinestore.cingular.com/webap p/wcs/stores/servlet/ES_AUX_PLAN_TERMS.jsp+site:cingular.com+rollover+expire> or <http://tinyurl.com/7qet5> As of today (October 31, 2005): The old terms and conditions are still posted at <http://www.cingular.com/customer_service/rollover> Rollover minutes expire after twelve months and/or immediately upon default, or if customer changes rate plans to a non-rollover plan This page is not properly viewable in Mozilla Firefox. The new terms and conditions are posted at: <http://www.cingular.com/cingular_advantage> ROLLOVER MINUTES Unused Anytime Minutes expire after the 12th billing period. Night and Weekend and Mobile to Mobile Minutes do not roll over. If you change from one rollover plan to another rollover plan, any accumulated Rollover Minutes in excess of the new plan's number of monthly anytime minutes will expire upon such change. If you migrate a single line to a FamilyTalk plan or should a subscriber join your FamilyTalk plan for which your line is the primary line, any accumulated rollover minutes for all lines included in the new FamilyTalk group's Rollover Minutes in excess of the monthly anytime minutes for such group shall expire upon such change. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> Cingular has changed the terms on Rollover expiration as noted below. Such expiration should only be applicable to minutes accumulated *after* the change in terms (i.e., not retroactively). If you might be affected by this change, it's a good idea to keep a record of the prior language. As of at least October 28, 2005, the terms and conditions on Rollover were: <http://onlinestored.cingular.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ES_AUX_PLAN_TERMS.jsp> Rollover Minutes: Rollover Minutes accumulate and expire through 12 rolling bill periods. Bill Period 1 (activation) unused Anytime Minutes will not carry over. Bill Period 2 unused Anytime Minutes will begin to carry over. Rollover Minutes accumulated starting with Bill Period 2 will expire each bill period as they reach a 12 bill period age. ROLLOVER MINUTES WILL ALSO EXPIRE IMMEDIATELY UPON DEFAULT OR IF CUSTOMER CHANGES TO A NON-ROLLOVER PLAN. Rollover Minutes are not redeemable for cash or credit and are not transferable. Night and Weekend and Mobile to Mobile minutes do not carry over. [emphasis added] This page has now been taken down. The Google cached copy is at <http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:IE-BaxZKTjUJ:onlinestore.cingular.com/webap p/wcs/stores/servlet/ES_AUX_PLAN_TERMS.jsp+site:cingular.com+rollover+expire> or <http://tinyurl.com/7qet5> As of today (October 31, 2005): The old terms and conditions are still posted at <http://www.cingular.com/customer_service/rollover> Rollover minutes expire after twelve months and/or immediately upon default, or if customer changes rate plans to a non-rollover plan This page is not properly viewable in Mozilla Firefox. On the other hand, the new terms and conditions are posted at: <http://www.cingular.com/cingular_advantage> ROLLOVER MINUTES Unused Anytime Minutes expire after the 12th billing period. Night and Weekend and Mobile to Mobile Minutes do not roll over. If you change from one rollover plan to another rollover plan, any accumulated Rollover Minutes in excess of the new plan's number of monthly anytime minutes will expire upon such change. If you migrate a single line to a FamilyTalk plan or should a subscriber join your FamilyTalk plan for which your line is the primary line, any accumulated rollover minutes for all lines included in the new FamilyTalk group's Rollover Minutes in excess of the monthly anytime minutes for such group shall expire upon such change. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> So what if you have a copy of what the old Ts & Cs were, they are not what the Ts & Cs are now. They are as you say prior language, and applied to prior plan changes, not the current language which would apply to current and until further notice changes. It also sounds like anytime you make a late payment, your rollover minutes are gone. > Cingular has changed the terms on Rollover expiration as noted below. Such > expiration should only be applicable to minutes accumulated *after* the change [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > FamilyTalk group's Rollover Minutes in excess of the monthly anytime > minutes for such group shall expire upon such change. > So what if you have a copy of what the old Ts & Cs were, they are not >what the Ts & Cs are now. They are as you say prior language, and >applied to prior plan changes, not the current language which would >apply to current and until further notice changes. Prior terms and conditions would apply to Rollover minutes accumulated while those terms and conditions were in effect -- Cingular doesn't have the right to change terms and conditions retroactively. New terms and conditions would likewise apply only to Rollover minutes accumulated while those terms and conditions are in effect > It also sounds like anytime you make a late payment, your rollover >minutes are gone. A late payment doesn't constitute "default." Caveat: I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. >> Cingular has changed the terms on Rollover expiration as noted below. Such >> expiration should only be applicable to minutes accumulated *after* the change [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >> FamilyTalk group's Rollover Minutes in excess of the monthly anytime >> minutes for such group shall expire upon such change. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> |
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