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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Cingular / September 2005Cingular Switching from GSM a Rumor?
Hi, I'm a newbie to Cingular (as of 9/9) and to this group. I just found a disturbing link concerning Cingular's coverage. Personally to me, it sounds like either sour grapes over some former unresolved dispute with the company or online sabotage from a competitor, but if true, this sounds like real bad news. Here's the link (scroll to bottom) and an highlight with the disturbing part: http://www.epinions.com/elec-Comm-Mobileservice-All-Cingular_Tampa_St_Petersburg h/display_~reviews "be aware that since they took over AT&T, who was really one of the two very best providers in the US, they have started the process of taking and converting the AT&T GSM towers to their own signal type. This came directly from a customer service rep who warned me at first that the conversation might be recorded, and she had to use caution in what she was able to disclose. After telling me about the tower conversions, she cautiously indicated that this was happening VERY quickly and inside of a few months my current GSM would be nothing but trash!" The post was dated 9/11/05. I switched from Sprint which uses CDMA and I have to admit that I don't know an whole lot about GSM, but from reading this group for two weeks I thought Cingular's "own signal type" *was* GSM. This e-pinions post frankly sounds like B.S. to me, but if anyone knows anything, could you please straighten this out? Thanks. There isn't very much info in that posting, but, to give the best face on it. There are 2 main frequency bands used by GSM providers in the US. 1900, and 850. Add to this that, in many markets, after the merger Cingular may have gained either 850 or 1900 towers from AT&T, while owning the other. In the interest of consolidation, they may not continue to provide both. If the old phone didn't support both 850 and 1900, and they decide to sell off one of those for some reason in some market, then the phone "may" not suffice for that market anymore. There are plans for Cingular to upgrade to new technology in the future. Some markets already have it. But it is mainly for the high speed data. > There isn't very much info in that posting, but, to give the best face > on it. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > future. Some markets already have it. But it is mainly for the high > speed data. Thanks Kevin. My new phone supports GSM 850/900/1800/1900, so I guess that's something I won't really be having to worry about. I appreciate your expertise. . > > There isn't very much info in that posting, but, to give the best face > > on it. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > something I won't really be having to worry about. I appreciate your > expertise. Sorry about previous. Cingular is working on "eventually" removing all of the legacy "AT&T Wireless" Towers and getting all of the customers on the "Cingular" towers and frequencies. But remember that with aprox. 20+ million AT&T Wireless customers this is not something that is happening overnight. As for areas with multiple frequencies I think that it is safe to say that if you live in an area that has both 1900 and 850 then you can expect to lose one of those frequencies (850) so they do not overlap. But I seriously doubt that Cingular would do anything to reduce the quality of service in any area without a better alternative. > . > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > something I won't really be having to worry about. I appreciate your > > expertise. >Cingular is working on "eventually" removing all of the legacy "AT&T >Wireless" Towers and getting all of the customers on the "Cingular" towers >and frequencies. Cingular is actually working on "eventually" integrating both networks, decommissioning towers only when there is unnecessary overlap. >As for areas with multiple frequencies I think that it is safe to say that >if you live in an area that has both 1900 and 850 then you can expect to >lose one of those frequencies (850) so they do not overlap. Not true.  SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Not true. Isn't this a possibility in some markets, at least in the past? Selling off of subscribers and spectrum to Alltel and Suncom, for example, when it was thought that the combined market share would otherwise be too great for the market? Or changes in other markets where a lot of coverage was done renting towers from others, like TMobile? With the purchase of AT&T spectrum in those areas, reports of dropping of roaming in areas where Cingular now has spectrum. > > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > in those areas, reports of dropping of roaming in areas where Cingular > now has spectrum. Alas I owe everyone an apology about this one. I know I had heard something about the 850 Mhz towers being decommissioned in markets where there were both 850 and 1900. After the posts yesterday I did indeed check my sources and discovered that I was not correct. The real scoop is that in markets where there are multiple 850/1900 from blue and orange then some of the 850's were being moved to areas with less coverage. This would (of course) make sense as they wouldn't want to get rid of a complete frequency now would they! My apologies for the misinformation. I am not a cell technology expert and don't know all the nitty gritty details but I had a Cingular network engineer visit my building yesterday. This all started because of the area my employer is in has had terrible signal strength for years and I started inquiring about in building repeaters. The repeater company I contacted is a Cingular business partner and they knew of some changes going on in my area so they deferred selling me anything until Cingular had a chance to speak up. A local Cingular engineer got in touch with me and said there were definite plans to merge some blue towers very soon and would like to take a blue phone and an orange one around my bldg and survey what we should see once the tower work was complete. Took a few weeks for him to show up but he's a busy dude. Anway, the blue phone maintained a perfect signal all the way down to the middle of our Data Center while the orange phone's signal basically went dead (this is what we've been living with). He explained that there was a tower about 2 miles away that had a straight shot to us and that at the end of this month (give or take a week) they should have all the towers in my county switched over and our building should get the signal quality of that blue phone after the switch. He did say that they were moving everything to the "orange" technology, whatever that meant, but I'm sure you guru's know. > Sorry about previous. > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >> > something I won't really be having to worry about. I appreciate your >> > expertise. > He explained that there was a tower about 2 > miles away that had a straight shot to us and that at the end of this month > (give or take a week) they should have all the towers in my county switched > over and our building should get the signal quality of that blue phone after > the switch. He did say that they were moving everything to the "orange" > technology, whatever that meant, but I'm sure you guru's know. "Orange" and "Blue" are just euphemisms for the two comapnies that existed prior to Cingular's merger with AT&T wireless. "Orange" refers to Cingular's pre-merger assets and infrastructure (so named because Cingular's primary brand-color is Orange), and "Blue" refers to the assets of the former AT&T wireless (so named for the blue "Death Star" that was AT&T's corporate logo). For a good long while after the merger, Cingular had (and for now, continues to have) to operate two different networks, the "Orange" Cingular network and the "Blue" AT&T Wireless network that it acquired when it finalized the merger. So while financially the two companies are now one, the networks have pretty much continued to operate as if they were two separate (albiet compatible) systems. There have been a few stopgap measure put in place to allow customers on the Orange network to use the Blue network, and vice-versa, but these measures aren't perfect (as you've definitely noticed) and are far from ideal. SO, the ultimate goal for Cingular is to merge the two systems, and make them operate as if they are all one big happy Orange family. Once the migration completes, the color references will effectively be meaningless, because all of the Blue network assets will be assimilated into Orange, and the two will be fully unified to operate like a single network. SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. >> He explained that there was a tower about 2 miles away that had a >> straight shot to us and that at the end of this month (give or take a [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > into Orange, and the two will be fully unified to operate like a single > network. It's more complicated than that. There's actually 3, maybe 4, systems. AT&T had both the older TDMA system and the newer GSM. I believe that Cimgular also has TDMA systems in some areas as well. I know people still on "blue" TDMA as there was no Cingular presence here (Phoenix) until the merger. Cingular apparently would like to get all the TDMAers moved to GSM and drop the TDMA network entirely. > Cingular apparently would like to get all the TDMAers > moved to GSM and drop the TDMA network entirely. But they won't match our old ATTWS contract terms. I get 650 min/mo.; free incoming text messages; 7 pm N/W; Free long distance; unlimited n/w minutes. If Cingular demands that I give up these terms just to get GSM, I'll bid 'em "Adios!" > >> He explained that there was a tower about 2 miles away that had a > >> straight shot to us and that at the end of this month (give or take a [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > until the merger. Cingular apparently would like to get all the TDMAers > moved to GSM and drop the TDMA network entirely. Which may still be a problem with some of their customers, like my father. Though he complains more about his TDMA coverage than he used to, at least he still gets coverage in some out of the way spots away from major roads than I get with my GSM only phone. I haven't priced how much a comparable GSM plan would cost him for his several phones, as well as the price to buy the phones. I believe I've read that Cingular has specified a Feb 2007 date, or is that 2008, for TDMA. >>>>He explained that there was a tower about 2 miles away that had a >>>>straight shot to us and that at the end of this month (give or take a [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > as well as the price to buy the phones. I believe I've read that > Cingular has specified a Feb 2007 date, or is that 2008, for TDMA. He may be getting TDMA coverage or, quite likely, falling back to analog- something the GSM phones don't do. >Cingular is working on "eventually" removing all of the legacy "AT&T >Wireless" Towers and getting all of the customers on the "Cingular" towers >and frequencies. > > Cingular is not "removing all of the legacy AT&T Wireless towers." Cingular is working on putting the legacy AT&T Wireless towers onto the Cingular network. >But remember that with aprox. 20+ million AT&T Wireless customers this is >not something that is happening overnight. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >lose one of those frequencies (850) so they do not overlap. > I highly doubt that is the case. Spectrum is very valuable, and I'm pretty sure Cingular is going to just stop using a lot of it. For example, in Florida, Cingular has extensive coverage with 850 mHz A licence, 850 mHz B licence, and PCS (1900 mHz) licenses. It's probably not on their mind to start turning of towers "to prevent frequency overlap." The frequencies of 850 mHz (or 800 mHz if you prefer to call it that) do not overlap with 1900 mHz. Many companies, including Verizon Wireless, use 850 and 1900 in the same market. TH >Hi, I'm a newbie to Cingular (as of 9/9) and to this group. I just found a >disturbing link concerning Cingular's coverage. Personally to me, it sounds [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >This e-pinions post frankly sounds like B.S. to me, but if anyone knows >anything, could you please straighten this out? Thanks. It's utter nonsense. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> > Hi, I'm a newbie to Cingular (as of 9/9) and to this group. I just found a > disturbing link concerning Cingular's coverage. Personally to me, it sounds > like either sour grapes over some former unresolved dispute with the company Typically, places like ePinions and ripoffreport.com are *filled* sour grapes and unfulfilled gripes, some truthful, many heavily embellished and often rife with conspiracy theories and outright false info. That's just the nature of the beast. > http://www.epinions.com/elec-Comm-Mobileservice-All-Cingular_Tampa_St_Petersburg h/display_~reviews > "be aware that since they took over AT&T, who was really one of the two very > best providers in the US, Well, we already know where this compaint is headed. AT&T Wireless ended its life with the highest number of FCC complaints in the industry. It was many things, but the "very best" it most certainly was not. > they have started the process of taking and > converting the AT&T GSM towers to their own signal type. ...and Cingular's signal type happens to be... *drumroll* GSM! And signalling formats aside, what did this person expect? It's ludicrous for a wireless carrier to buy a network and then attempt to run it separately without any effort to integrate the two, gaining little to no benefit of synergy from that merger at all (but don't tell Sprint that). There IS network integration in progress, but a lot of this is helped by the fact that both Cingualr and AT&T had similar networks with similar signalling formats (GSM) and a similar upward migration path (ultimately to WCDMA and HSPDA). > This came directly > from a customer service rep who warned me at first that the conversation > might be recorded, and she had to use caution in what she was able to > disclose. Ooooooh, scarrrry conpsiracy in the works! This is definitely the hallmark of an exaggerated (if not entirely false) complaint. Someone had a grudge and felt the need to instil FUD to anyone who might want to consider Cingular. > After telling me about the tower conversions, she cautiously > indicated that this was happening VERY quickly and inside of a few months my > current GSM would be nothing but trash!" Total BS. > The post was dated 9/11/05. I switched from Sprint which uses CDMA and I > have to admit that I don't know an whole lot about GSM, but from reading > this group for two weeks I thought Cingular's "own signal type" *was* GSM. > This e-pinions post frankly sounds like B.S. to me, but if anyone knows > anything, could you please straighten this out? Thanks. Yes. GSM IS the standard on Cingular. Your phone will work just fine now and for a good while in the future. Now, yes, Cingular IS upgrading to a newer 3G standard called UMTS ("Universal Mobile Telephone Service"). It uses a different standard called WCDMA. HOWEVER, this does not mean that Cingular is immediately and summarily going to dump GSM off its network. The two are going to coexist for quite some time. In fact, GSM will probably remain for long after your contract has been up and you've upgraded to a UMTS handset, if you stay with Cingular that long. SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. > > Hi, I'm a newbie to Cingular (as of 9/9) and to this group. I just found a > > disturbing link concerning Cingular's coverage. Personally to me, it sounds [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > after your contract has been up and you've upgraded to a UMTS handset, > if you stay with Cingular that long. I know that, in the years I had AT&T, their customer service worked well for me. I only experimented with Sprint (bad experience with customer service because I had to jump through hoops since a customer of theirs had my SS number in their system, and I had to fill out the paperwork to fix it) due to very poor pricing of data plans. Data plans are better priced now, so I'm back. > Yes. GSM IS the standard on Cingular. Your phone will work just fine > now and for a good while in the future. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > remain for long after your contract has been up and you've upgraded to > a UMTS handset, if you stay with Cingular that long. What about HSDPA? It seems that Cingular is being secretive on its exact upgrade path. Economically, it would make sense to just skip UMTS if HSDPA is being close to market. After all, Cingular came to GSM much later than European companies. Any thoughts? TH >> Yes. GSM IS the standard on Cingular. Your phone will work just fine >> now and for a good while in the future. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > T Several articles have been written, March and August of this year that Cingular was going to do just that. Jump right to HSPDA in all but those few markets where they already have UMTS and to accomplish this by the end of this year. But Cingular has not been willing to confirm this to me however I did receive a communication from one of their reps who confirmed that there will be an upgrade coming but they would not announce it in advance. I think there are some technology delays such as getting handsets that support both GSM and HSPDA, getting the towers converted (although I hear from multiple sources that is has already been done but not turned on), getting their internal support staff trained to deal with the newer technology, and perhaps getting sufficient bandwidth to the cell sites themselves to support the additional traffic that will result. There may not be a pressing market need yet either. > >> Yes. GSM IS the standard on Cingular. Your phone will work just fine > >> now and for a good while in the future. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > additional traffic that will result. There may not be a pressing market > need yet either. I think that it is a VERY SAFE assumption that until UMTS is available in more markets than it is now Cingular will not release any new technology to the public on a wide scale (other than for testing purposes) Most folks over at Epinions don't have a life and get their thrills from writing pages of fantasy junk that only exists in their minds. Take it all with a grain of salt. If you want good info about Cingular, visit this newsgroup or Howard Forums. > Hi, I'm a newbie to Cingular (as of 9/9) and to this group. I just found > a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > bad > news. |
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