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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Cingular / November 2005UMTS and HSDPA in November
I heard from a usually reliable source that Cingular will launch UMTS with HSDPA in the 18 markets on November 1. Anyone else heard this? >I heard from a usually reliable source that Cingular will launch UMTS >with HSDPA in the 18 markets on November 1. Anyone else heard this? http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=82566&print=true I'm waiting to pick up my Verizon EVDO card. I'd like to know if Cingular is going to make HSDPA widely available soon. --kyler >> I heard from a usually reliable source that Cingular will launch UMTS >> with HSDPA in the 18 markets on November 1. Anyone else heard this? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > --kyler We all would like to know that. How available and how much bandwidth they will have behind it are things we don't know yet. Cingular is motivated as the EVDO runs circles around the EDGE service and it is in many major markets. >>> I heard from a usually reliable source that Cingular will launch UMTS >>> with HSDPA in the 18 markets on November 1. Anyone else heard this? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >motivated as the EVDO runs circles around the EDGE service and it is in >many major markets. In fact EGPRS(EDGE) performs well as compared to EV-DO and is more widely available.  SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > In fact EGPRS(EDGE) performs well as compared to EV-DO and is more widely > available. Nonsense. I have had both and in practice they can not even be compared. EV-DO compares to UMTS not Edge. Verizon has better coverage than cingular in the DC/NY corridor anyway. Edge, the way Cingular has it implemented, seldom exceeds GPRS speeds and perhaps 30% of the time has zero data rate even with a high signal connection. >> In fact EGPRS(EDGE) performs well as compared to EV-DO and is more widely >> available. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >implemented, seldom exceeds GPRS speeds and perhaps 30% of the time has >zero data rate even with a high signal connection. Something must be seriously wrong with your EGPRS(EDGE) -- I'm routinely getting about 150 Kbps, or about 3x GPRS speeds. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> >>Nonsense. I have had both and in practice they can not even be compared. >> EV-DO compares to UMTS not Edge. Verizon has better coverage than [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Something must be seriously wrong with your EGPRS(EDGE) -- I'm routinely > getting about 150 Kbps, or about 3x GPRS speeds. Exactly what I saw on EDGE. But that's itneresting that you say it "performs well as" EVDO. On EVDO, I've seen sustained speed of 350kbps, and bursts of 750 from time to time. SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. LOL My grandfather had a plaque on his wall that said: "Even a fish wouldn't get into trouble if he kept his mouth shut." >>>Nonsense. I have had both and in practice they can not even be compared. >>> EV-DO compares to UMTS not Edge. Verizon has better coverage than [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >"performs well as" EVDO. On EVDO, I've seen sustained speed of 350kbps, >and bursts of 750 from time to time. I've done considerable EV-DO testing, and while I have seen numbers like yours in ideal conditions, performance has been typically much less under normal network loads. Perhaps the network in your area has more excess capacity than the network in this area. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> > I've done considerable EV-DO testing, and while I have seen numbers like yours > in ideal conditions, performance has been typically much less under normal > network loads. Perhaps the network in your area has more excess capacity than > the network in this area. On the contrary. The New York/New Jersey market is undisputed as capacity-starved. SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. >> I've done considerable EV-DO testing, and while I have seen numbers like yours >> in ideal conditions, performance has been typically much less under normal [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >On the contrary. The New York/New Jersey market is undisputed as >capacity-starved. Citation? Or do you have a different standard for yourself than you have for me? ;) SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> >>>I've done considerable EV-DO testing, and while I have seen numbers like yours >>>in ideal conditions, performance has been typically much less under normal [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Citation? Or do you have a different standard for yourself than you have for > me? ;) Of course I have different standards. Mine are higher. http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/Hearings/06112003hearing951/Stile1533print.htm http://web.si.umich.edu/tprc/papers/2005/438/Peha_Public_Safety_Communications_T PRC_2005.pdf http://www.fcc.gov/sptf/files/SEWGFinalReport_1.pdf SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. >>>>I've done considerable EV-DO testing, and while I have seen numbers like yours >>>>in ideal conditions, performance has been typically much less under normal [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Of course I have different standards. Mine are higher. Posting no citations is a higher standard? ;) >http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/Hearings/06112003hearing951/Stile1533print.htm "The Spectrum Needs of Our Nation's First Responders" >http://web.si.umich.edu/tprc/papers/2005/438/Peha_Public_Safety_Communications_T PRC_2005.pdf "How Americas Fragmented Approach to Public Safety Wastes Money and Spectrum" Those are about public safety communications -- nothing to do with current EV-DO network capacity in that area. >http://www.fcc.gov/sptf/files/SEWGFinalReport_1.pdf "Report of the Spectrum Efficiency Working Group" Again, nothing to do with current EV-DO network capacity in that area. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> How do you like these apples? http://i.cmpnet.com/nc/1520/graphics/1520f2c.gif Comes from this artilcle which admittedly is about one year old. http://www.nwc.com/story/singlePageFormat.jhtml?articleID=49400836 >How do you like these apples? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >http://www.nwc.com/story/singlePageFormat.jhtml?articleID=49400836 Impressive. I've never seen anything like that speed for EV-DO here in Northern California. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> > [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Impressive. I've never seen anything like that speed for EV-DO here in > Northern California. I've heard this rumored in a few places now and I saw cingular's "leaked" coverage map. I doubt anyone knows, but just in case, does anyone know if it will be UMTS 1900 like the old ATT network, or will it be true WCDMA 2100 UMTS like it is everywhere else? Also, anyone have any clue how they will dole out access? Think they'll charge an arm and a leg for it like they do with EDGE? - Jon >I've heard this rumored in a few places now and I saw cingular's >"leaked" coverage map. I doubt anyone knows, but just in case, does >anyone know if it will be UMTS 1900 like the old ATT network, or will it >be true WCDMA 2100 UMTS like it is everywhere else? Presumably 1900, since Cingular has 1900 but not 2100 spectrum. >Also, anyone have >any clue how they will dole out access? Think they'll charge an arm and >a leg for it like they do with EDGE? I'm guessing that at least initially it will be the same price as UMTS, only available on the Data Connect Unlimited plan, which is priced competitively. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> I posted the following yesterday. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How do you like these apples? http://i.cmpnet.com/nc/1520/graphics/1520f2c.gif Comes from this artilcle which admittedly is about one year old. http://www.nwc.com/story/singlePageFormat.jhtml?articleID=49400836 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After looking at it again (I bookmarked the page a few months back), I see that there is a typo in the chart of the first link. From reading the accompanying text, it appears the scale under Upstream should be 0 - 150, not 0 -600. So each graduation is 25 Kbps. > Posting no citations is a higher standard? ;) > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Again, nothing to do with current EV-DO network capacity in that area. John, evidently you have a habit of reading titles and not subject matter. ALL of the above articles make a case for a spectrum crunch in the wireless sector, including the CMRS carriers. The papers are first-responder heavy becase a. First repsonders DO use CMRS services, and b. TAhe government takes notice when you put "shortage" and terrorist threat" in the same sentence. And last I checked, EVDO was a CRMS service. If spectrum is tight, it's tight for ALL CMRS services, including EVDO. But John, clearly you have an axe to grind and an ego to nurse, and clearly you will never acept that anyone else BUT you is right. SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. >> Posting no citations is a higher standard? ;) >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >John, evidently you have a habit of reading titles and not subject >matter. I actually read them all. >ALL of the above articles make a case for a spectrum crunch in >the wireless sector, including the CMRS carriers. [SNIP] >And last I checked, EVDO was a CRMS service. If spectrum is tight, it's >tight for ALL CMRS services, including EVDO. A *spectrum* crunch is not a *capacity* crunch on a given allocated piece of spectrum (i.e., Verizon CDMA). >[additional insult deleted] Evidently you have a habit of posting insults when someone dares to have a different perspective. Nice. Not. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> >>John, evidently you have a habit of reading titles and not subject >>matter. > > I actually read them all. And the reailty of the facts whoosed by you like a freight train, it would seem. >>And last I checked, EVDO was a CRMS service. If spectrum is tight, it's >>tight for ALL CMRS services, including EVDO. > > A *spectrum* crunch is not a *capacity* crunch on a given allocated piece of > spectrum (i.e., Verizon CDMA). You're splitting hairs now, and not doing it very well. A spectrum crunch generally is triggered by heavy demand and limited supply. What drives the demand for more spectrum? A demand for capacity. >>[additional insult deleted] Let me UNdelete what I said, because it wasn't an insult, and I would kindly ask that you not accuse me of something I didn't say. I wrote: >> But John, clearly you have an axe to grind and an ego to nurse, and >> clearly you will never acept that anyone else BUT you is right. If I had said "John, you're a egotistical lying maniac," THAT would have been an insult. But on the contrary, the above was a statement of my observations in regard to your often-sophomoric behavior, which is very unbecoming of an aspiring moderator. Clearly, you felt the need to delete what I wrote because you couldn't twist the wording around to MAKE it appear insulting. False accusations are not the way to win an argument, especially when a permament archive of what was said exists. SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. >> I actually read them all. > >And the reailty of the facts whoosed by you like a freight train, it >would seem. And you just can't resist the urge to be insulting, it would seem. >> A *spectrum* crunch is not a *capacity* crunch on a given allocated piece of >> spectrum (i.e., Verizon CDMA). > >You're splitting hairs now, ... I disagree. They are two completely different things. >[further insults deleted] Have a nice day. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> >>> A *spectrum* crunch is not a *capacity* crunch on a given allocated piece of >>> spectrum (i.e., Verizon CDMA). >>You're splitting hairs now, ... > I disagree. They are two completely different things. They are two COMPLETELY RELATED things. Wake up and smell the coffee. I have found Isaiah Beard much more accurate and knowledgeable in his posts than you. You have knowledge in some areas, but unfortunately it is not as broad as you make out. >>>> A *spectrum* crunch is not a *capacity* crunch on a given allocated piece of >>>> spectrum (i.e., Verizon CDMA). [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > posts than you. You have knowledge in some areas, but unfortunately it > is not as broad as you make out. You have it right. John Navas, hangs out here to satisfy a need to be expert in something. Unfortunately for John, his cover is blown. He really does not know a lot about cellular technology in general or that deployed by Cingular or other major cellular firms. His presence is largely unwelcome. >>We all would like to know that. How available and how much bandwidth >>they will have behind it are things we don't know yet. Cingular is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > In fact EGPRS(EDGE) performs well as compared to EV-DO and is more widely > available. Heh! Sorry, but I'm afraid it doesn't. I've compared EVDO to GPRS, and am quite happy with EVDO. SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. >>> I heard from a usually reliable source that Cingular will launch >>> UMTS with HSDPA in the 18 markets on November 1. Anyone else heard [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > motivated as the EVDO runs circles around the EDGE service and it is > in many major markets. Cingular will aslo have another advantage: when HSDPA is not available, EDGE will be. Verizon falls back to 1xRTT. >I heard from a usually reliable source that Cingular will launch UMTS >with HSDPA in the 18 markets on November 1. Anyone else heard this? I have heard that rumor, but I think it may prove to be optimistic, since AFAIK there isn't yet any HSDPA deployment anywhere. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> >[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > It wouldn't surprise me, it's been cropping up on a lot of places, including Phonescoop. Remember, there's always a first for everything. >>>I heard from a usually reliable source that Cingular will launch UMTS >>>with HSDPA in the 18 markets on November 1. Anyone else heard this? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Remember, there's always a first for everything. The primary issue I see is coverage (number of markets), not the date -- when something hasn't been proven in the real world, rapid deployment tends to be difficult/problematic. If there is a rollout on Nov 1, I would expect it to be more limited, with turn-on of other markets an ongoing process. Another issue is the limited selection of HSDPA mobile devices. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> >[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE] > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > UMTS has been up for some time now, and HSDPA shouldn't be all that much different, although I'm sure technical problems did occur. AFAIK, initial offerings of HSDPA capable devices will be data cards, with mobile handsets phasing into the capability. I can't say for sure though, we may have to wait and see. >>The primary issue I see is coverage (number of markets), not the date -- when >>something hasn't been proven in the real world, rapid deployment tends to be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >UMTS has been up for some time now, and HSDPA shouldn't be all that much >different, although I'm sure technical problems did occur. See <http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002569632_highspeed19.html> <http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=82566&WT.svl=news2_1> <http://www.3gnewsroom.com/3g_news/oct_05/news_6323.shtml> HSDPA now live only in Seattle, Phoenix, and Dallas/Ft Worth. I'm guessing the next wave will be Detroit, San Francisco, and San Diego, the rest of the six ATTWS UMTS markets. >AFAIK, >initial offerings of HSDPA capable devices will be data cards, with >mobile handsets phasing into the capability. I can't say for sure >though, we may have to wait and see. Nothing yet, and perhaps not until the end of the year (per the first story above). SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> >UMTS has been up for some time now, and HSDPA shouldn't be all that much >different, although I'm sure technical problems did occur. AFAIK, >initial offerings of HSDPA capable devices will be data cards, with >mobile handsets phasing into the capability. I can't say for sure >though, we may have to wait and see. Wait no more. http://www.option.com/products/3g_edge.shtml --kyler >>UMTS has been up for some time now, and HSDPA shouldn't be all that much >>different, although I'm sure technical problems did occur. AFAIK, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Wait no more. > http://www.option.com/products/3g_edge.shtml HSDPA-Ready == vaporware My advice is to wait until it actually works. SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular> > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >--kyler > The card looks promising, except that the UMTS is only in 2100 mHz, a band not used by the wireless companies in the United States, which will deploy HSDPA at 850 mHz and 1900 mHz (AFAIK, they'll use 850 mHz, too) |
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