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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Cingular / November 2005Moving from Sprint to Cingular
[cross posted in Sprint and Cingular NGs] I posted several months about loosing 30% of my Sprint coverage area in North Texas and may have to consider switching over to Cingular. Apparently Sprint lost its analog roaming partnership in that area as there is NO coverage indicated on the map now and driving around in the area confirms the extent of coverage loss - something like 60 miles across and 20 miles wide. So looking at Cingular and dump Sprint, sans the ETF. The Motorola V557 appears to fit my needs - it had EDGE capacity for tethered laptop access using the $24/month plan for unlimited data added to your voice plan, camera (a VERY useful function, its not just a toy), speakerphone, and Bluetooth (once you use a wireless earpiece, you never go back to the wires). Am I going to run into any unanticipated unknown issues here? I left Sprint for Cingular several months ago. Other than my 1st bill being really high and still fighting with Sprint on the final charges. Coverage has been better than with Sprint. Granted that is here in NW Central Florida. David >[cross posted in Sprint and Cingular NGs] > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Am I going to run into any unanticipated unknown issues here? >[cross posted in Sprint and Cingular NGs] > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Am I going to run into any unanticipated unknown issues here? Yep: * "Tethering" is now prohibited on MEdia packages, and the cheapest laptop package is (currently) $60/month. * V557 EDGE (EGPRS) is only about 2/3 of full EDGE speed.  SignatureBest regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ> > * "Tethering" is now prohibited on MEdia packages, and the cheapest laptop > package is (currently) $60/month. Ok, that won't aply to me as we don't have Media out here yet. > * V557 EDGE (EGPRS) is only about 2/3 of full EDGE speed. Even 56K is fine for me. > The Motorola V557 appears to fit my needs - it had EDGE capacity for > tethered laptop access using the $24/month plan for unlimited data added > to your voice plan, camera (a VERY useful function, its not just a toy) Pray tell? > Pray tell? ????? > > Pray tell? > > ????? sorry. You said that a camera on a cell phone isn't just a toy, but rather a very useful thing. I've never had a camera phone, and am still wondering why I'd want one. You're the first I've seen to indicate that it's not just a toy. I was wondering why. > I've never had a camera phone, and am still wondering why I'd want one. > You're the first I've seen to indicate that it's not just a toy. I was > wondering why. I always have my phone with me, sometime you need to catch a pic "right now". Also, I need to send pics from the field...lot faster than downloading a pic from a digital camera then emailing it. A real time picture is worth 10,000,037 words. > You said that a camera on a cell phone isn't just a toy, but > rather a very useful thing. Pictures of: * failed welding joint on a tractor roll bar. * rusting on another tractor roll bar where base paint was scraped off. * pricing of items on shelf at lumber store. * dog and horse injuries to vets. * safety infractions as you see it happen on an oil drilling rig. * erroneous building construction details on site. * dazed look on boyfriend's face when he got thrown from a horse. * scared look on rodeo buddy's face while sitting on a crazed bull in the pen waiting for gate to open...priceless. * damage to soccer mom's SUV when she backed into my 400 pound front grill guard on my truck. Of course it was *MY* fault SHE backed into my parked truck. * leaking oil field well heads. Just a few examples of my 1300+ pictures over 16 months. > [cross posted in Sprint and Cingular NGs] > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > across and 20 miles wide. So looking at Cingular and dump Sprint, sans > the ETF. North Texas huh? A word of caution then. Better borrow a GSM phone and TEST in the exact area you want. There are still areas in north Texas that do NOT have GSM coverage--still TDMA/AMPS--so you might be going from pan to fire so to speak. You can't believe the Cingular map--it seems to assume that all their roaming partners converted at the same time Cingular did and such is not the case. SignatureJud Dallas TX USA > North Texas huh? A word of caution then. Better borrow a GSM phone and > TEST in the exact area you want. There are still areas in north Texas > that do NOT have GSM coverage--still TDMA/AMPS--so you might be going > from pan to fire so to speak. Gots lots of oil field clients and its pretty much a Cingualr woulrd up here, haven't heard any complaints..I did a year ago, but not now. > So looking at Cingular and dump Sprint, sans the ETF. Am I going to run > into any unanticipated unknown issues here? Sprint tech support finally got back to me, one week later, but there was a hoilday so am not complaining about that. The Sprint tech was very helpful and agreed that it was not a Sprint issue, per se, but a loss of a roaming partnership. I made sure he annotated that before closing the trouble ticket. Called Sprint CS to see what would be involved in porting my number and then cancelling my Sprint service. As expected, I was told there would be an ETF. The policy is, if Sprint still provides service in at your billing address, then you pay the ETF. That's to be expected. I kept pointing out that I signed a contract based on Sprint's coverage maps (even though it was a roaming area) and Sprint no longer provides the service that I signed up for. Let's not go in to defending Sprint and saying roaming areas are not their responsibility. Good thing I have a copy of Spint's coverage map at the time I signed the contract. This is a unique situation no one could have anticipated. After going around and around repeating ourselves, I politely thanked her and hung up the phone. I'm not even going to bother calling Sprint again. Perhaps I can fast track this whole mess by filing a oomplaint with the BBB and have the issue escalated to someone above the drone level. You signed up for service even though you had a map that showed that they did not cover an area where you wanted to use your phone. The area they cover has not gotten smaller. Which means you have no complaint. They do not have to let you out of your contract without an etf. > You signed up for service even though you had a map that showed that they > did not cover an area where you wanted to use your phone. The area they > cover has not gotten smaller. Which means you have no complaint. They do > not have to let you out of your contract without an etf. What in the world are you talking about? Have you been reading what I have been saying in my posts? I said I signed up for a service based on a map that CLEARY showed they covered the area I wanted to use my phone. The area got smaller by 60 miles x 20 miles. I have a complaint. You said the area in question was marked on the map as roaming, not Sprint PCS coverage. You said, "Apparently Sprint lost its analog roaming partnership in that area as there is NO coverage indicated on the map now". So, not only did Sprint PCS not cover the area when you started, but now no one does. Coverage by Sprint PCS did not get smaller. Areas where roaming capable Sprint PCS phones can roam are not guaranteed. Sprint PCS is not required to maintain any roaming agreement. And certainly can't when there is no longer any carrier there to have an agreement with. You have no complaint. > You said the area in question was marked on the map as roaming, not Sprint > PCS coverage. You said, "Apparently Sprint lost its analog roaming > partnership in that area as there is NO coverage indicated on the map > now". That is correct. > So, not only did Sprint PCS not cover the area when you started, That is not correct. Sprint did offer service in that as via a roaming partnership as inidicated on their printed material (in store coverage maps) > but now no one does. That is correct. > Coverage by Sprint PCS did not get smaller. Never ever said Sprint's network coverage got smaller. > Areas where roaming capable Sprint PCS phones can roam are not guaranteed. Are you reading anything I'm posting? I know you are in the Sprint NG. > Sprint PCS is not required to maintain any roaming agreement. And > certainly can't when there is no longer any carrier there to have an > agreement with. Quoting from Sprint's "Agreement": * Your agreement with Sprint Spectrum to you is made up of these Terms and Conditions of Service and the Service Plan that we agree to provide you. * our Service Plan is described in our marketing materials. we set for that Service Plan. --> This would include published coverage map material. * We may change the Agreement at any time by giving you prior notice. Any changes to the Agreement are effective when we publish them. --> Publish them where? Publish them on a web site? * If you use our Services or make any payment to us on or after the effective date of the changes, you accept the changes. --> No notice was every received advising the Sprint merger would adversely affect my service. * If we change a material term of the Agreement and that change has a material adverse effect on you, you may terminate the Agreement without an early termination fee by calling 1-888-211-4727 within 30 days after the invoice date of the first invoice you receive after the changes go into effect. --> Loosing a twenty mile wide by sixty mile across area that affects over 30 % of my usage meets the requirements of a material adverse affect on me. > You have no complaint. Whut-EVAH.......... > --> No notice was every received advising the Sprint merger would adversely > affect my service. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > --> Loosing a twenty mile wide by sixty mile across area that affects over > 30 % of my usage meets the requirements of a material adverse affect on me. Well then, terminate the Agreement without an early termination fee by calling 1-888-211-4727 within 30 days after the invoice date of the first invoice you receive after the changes go into effect. SignatureIf John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination, my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin. > Well then, terminate the Agreement without an early termination fee by > calling 1-888-211-4727 within 30 days after the invoice date of the > first invoice you receive after the changes go into effect. I keep getting a termination dept drone that quotes me "policy" when I quote the Terms of Service Agreement. It is not correct. The Advantage Agreement did not change. Sprint PCS did not offer service in the area in question. Roaming is not Sprint PCS service. You are not guaranteed roaming. The plan states that you can roam with or without fees depending on your plan, where they currently have a roaming agreement. Currents/currently change/changes. That is what makes it current. Until some new feature comes along that I want to add, I will stick with the plan I have now that does not charge extra for the ability to have "free" roaming. The published coverage map material, shows the extent of Sprint PCS coverage and roaming possibilities that were current at the time of printing. The roaming possibilities are not guaranteed. I have read everything you have posted. That does not change that roaming possibilities are not guaranteed. We both appear to be not cross posting. This discussion has been contained within the alt.cellular.cingular newsgroup. You started this in the cingular newsgroup, and I have kept it there. Yes, I am subscribed to five cellular newsgroups. Would you prefer to move it to the alt.cellular.sprintpcs newsgroup? OK...i'll make it simple.... > It is not correct. The Advantage Agreement did not change. Correct. The Agreement text did not change. > Sprint PCS did not offer service in the area in question. Not correct, they DID offer service in that area at least since fall of '03 when I started roaming out there. > Roaming is not Sprint PCS service. You are not guaranteed roaming. The printed material showed a very large are of coverage that no longer exists. Sprint considers roaming as part of the service they provide, albiet via a roaming partner. > The plan states that you can roam with or without fees depending on your > plan, where they currently have a roaming agreement. I have the Free & Clear Plan, but it only work where this IS coverage. > The published coverage map material, shows the extent of Sprint PCS > coverage and roaming possibilities that were current at the time of > printing. AND that were current for almost a year after the printing. > Would you prefer to move it to the alt.cellular.sprintpcs newsgroup? Sure, its an active thread. > The printed material showed a very large are of coverage that no longer > exists. Sprint considers roaming as part of the service they provide, albiet > via a roaming partner. This is really the key point. Sprint makes a very big deal of their roaming coverage because their native coverage is so lacking in so many areas. They show maps with all of the coverage, both native and roaming. The carriers are not yet permitted to turn off AMPS, so it's not like the AMPS network suddenly disappeared, it was Sprint's decision to drop the AMPS roaming for whatever reason (most likely they didn't want to pay for AMPS roaming). You have a good case for a waiver of the ETF, if you escalate. > Called Sprint CS to see what would be involved in porting my number and then > cancelling my Sprint service. As expected, I was told there would be an ETF. > The policy is, if Sprint still provides service in at your billing address, > then you pay the ETF. That's to be expected. Yet they are happy to sign up customers that have no service at their billing address. > I kept pointing out that I signed a contract based on Sprint's coverage maps > (even though it was a roaming area) and Sprint no longer provides the > service that I signed up for. Let's not go in to defending Sprint and saying > roaming areas are not their responsibility. Good thing I have a copy of > Spint's coverage map at the time I signed the contract. This is a unique > situation no one could have anticipated. It's a tough situation. All you can do is keep repeating, my phone no longer works in the places it worked when I purchased it. Do the terms of the contract say anything about roaming versus non-roaming coverage, i.e. is there a disclaimer about Sprint not having control over coverage changes by their roaming partners? Forget the BBB. They are useless. If you want to take it to small claims court you have to first have them bill your credit card for the ETF. Most likely they wouldn't show up in court, but then you have to actually get the money back from them, which will probably be impossible. OTOH, you could cancel the credit card that is billed for your service, and make them come after you for the ETF. Eventually they will send your account to collections, which will put it on your credit report if you don't pay, and then you can challenge the information on your credit report as being incorrect. An ETF from Sprint on your credit report, when combined with your dispute letter, will likely have a trivial effect, if any, on your credit score. I know one person who got out of their Sprint contract due to coverage issues, but in his case it was no Sprint coverage where it once existed, not roaming coverage that disappeared. > Yet they are happy to sign up customers that have no service at their > billing address. Verified - Actuslly I just tried that this morning for the fun of it. Gave them a billing home address in the dead area and they said they could sign nme up. > Do the terms of the contract say anything about roaming versus non-roaming > coverage, i.e. is there a disclaimer about Sprint not having control over > coverage changes by their roaming partners? There might be, but that's not a loop hole for them to not waive ETF. > I know one person who got out of their Sprint contract due to coverage > issues, but in his case it was no Sprint coverage where it once existed, > not roaming coverage that disappeared. Unlike my case where roaming disappeared. Nevertheless, the old map that I based my renewal showed coverage, but not anymore. Why would Sprint remove coverage from an existing coverage area? That does not make any sense to me. Are you sure that he was not roaming all of the time and Sprint dropped the roaming agreement? > I know one person who got out of their Sprint contract due to coverage > issues, but in his case it was no Sprint coverage where it once existed, > not roaming coverage that disappeared. > Why would Sprint remove coverage from an existing coverage area? That does > not make any sense to me. Are you sure that he was not roaming all of the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> issues, but in his case it was no Sprint coverage where it once existed, >> not roaming coverage that disappeared. Sprint did not drop any Network coverage, they merely lost a roaming partnership. > Why would Sprint remove coverage from an existing coverage area? That does > not make any sense to me. Are you sure that he was not roaming all of the > time and Sprint dropped the roaming agreement? This sort of thing happens all the time, and not just with Sprint. I.e., we have friends that have Verizon, and when they signed up they had good coverage at their house. Then Verizon moved the cell site serving their neighborhood, or re-oriented the directional antennas, and now they have no coverage. OTOH, a lady I worked with that has Sprint, has never had coverage at her house, and she finally switched to Cingular, once Cingular supported 800 Mhz GSM. At least in my area, there is a huge NIMBY factor for new cell phone towers. This means that the best coverage is from carriers that have the oldest, 800 Mhz networks, Cingular (now that they got AT&T's spectrum), and Verizon. T-Mobile and Sprint (and the prepaid carriers that use Sprint such as Metro PCS and Virgin) have the poorest coverage because it's a combination of the technical issues with 1900 Mhz, and the fact that they can't put up towers to correct the coverage issues. One of my friends has been fighting a cell phone tower going up right behind his house. This fight started with Cingular wanted a tower there, and now T-Mobile which has taken the 1900 Mhz Cingular network, wants a tower there. The location is behind a supermarket, which backs up to a residential area. PETA may become involved as well, because of fears that the radiation will harm the rats that live in back of the supermarket. > PETA may become involved as well, because of fears that the radiation will > harm the rats that live in back of the supermarket. LOL @ PETA.....very good point! |
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