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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Cingular / January 2006

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Doug Johnson - 24 Dec 2005 17:49 GMT
I recognize this is an all too familiar story when it comes to Cingular.  
However, if you aren't aware of the company's overall poor performance,  
please read on:

I became a Cingular customer in January of 2005. I bought two phones, a  
Sony and a Nokia.  I have no complaints regarding the phones.  I had a  
contract with US Cellular that expired in December 2004, so I thought I'd  
try something new.  The "roll-over" minutes were an insentive for  
switching to Cingular.  My first mistake was to not do some basic research  
on customer satisfaction with cellphone companies (and trust me, there is  
a lot of information out there).

During the first few months I had the service, I began to notice a gradual  
increase in dropped calls, rapid busy signals, and the recorded message  
of:  "We're sorry, but all circuits are busy".  When I called customer  
service in February 2005, I was told, "be patient, we are adding more  
towers everyday".  By April 2005, 50% of my calls were dropped calls.  
Sure, I had roll-over minutes, but I couldn't use them.  I again called  
customer service and expressed my concerns.  Once again I was assured that  
if I remain patient that service would improve.

By October 2005, 70% of my calls were dropped, either shortly after the  
other party answered or before.  I had my phones checked and they were  
found to be operating with design specifications.  The straw that broke  
the camel's back was the one time I needed it for a road emergency.  The  
phone never did connect me to AAA for roadside service.  Fortunately I had  
a family member who came to the rescue (who by the way had a Verizon  
phone), I might have had to walk 14 miles into town.  His Verizon phone  
worked just fine.

When I got into town, I called Cingular customer service.  The manager I  
spoke with said, "You are talking with me now on the Cingular phone, I  
don't know what your problem is".  I told him I was going to close my  
account with Cingular.  He reminded me of the contract language that says  
you agree to pay a termination fee.  I reminded the manager that I could  
contact the Better Business Bureau and the FCC.

I have since switched to Verizon.  I have had only two (2) dropped calls  
in the past 3 months, have never encountered a rapid busy signal, and only  
one (1) call where I got the recorded message, "All circuits are busy".  I  
am very satisfied with Verizon.

The GSM network may be the world standard, but trust me, the US hasn't  
figured out how to make it work. AT&T provided a reasonably good cellular  
service.  Cingular hasn't.  According to Consumer Reports, Cingular is at  
the bottom for customer satisfaction.  After my experience, I certainly  
believe that.

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Elmo P. Shagnasty - 24 Dec 2005 19:04 GMT
> The GSM network may be the world standard, but trust me, the US hasn't  
> figured out how to make it work.

Cingular has had growing pains as a result of their acquisition of AT&T
Wireless.

Many, many people nationwide got stuck with what you experienced,
starting about May of 2005.  I noticed it, and when I went to
forums.cingular.com I saw a huge spike in people seeing the same thing.

I suspect that a few years from now, Cingular will have their sh.t 
together on all of this.  But for now, the technical end of their
business is having some, um, "challenges".

As is the customer service side of their business.  I migrated from the
former AT&T Wireless side (the blue side) to the Cingular (orange) side
the other day, and it was a nightmare.  It was a 22 day odyssey; the
problems were rooted not in a lack of caring on their part, but in a
lack of training and a lack of communication among the various parts of
Cingular.  Everyone was happy to try to help, but their lack of
knowledge of Cingular's business and offerings got in the way.

I probably spent 15 hours total on the phone with those people.

Were it not for the great price I was getting (family 450 for $41.99),
I'd have just dumped them and moved to Verizon.  But Verizon doesn't
have a competitive rate plan, and I don't need all that Verizon's entry
level plan offers, so I gritted my teeth and stuck it out with Cingular.

I'll get my first bill in early January.  I can't WAIT to see how
they'll screw that one up.  I'll probably spend more time on the phone
with them, trying to get various entities within Cingular to acknowledge
what other entities within Cingular are doing or have set up.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to it all working, once it's all set up and
humming along.  But getting to that point has already been a major
challenge, and I foresee billing issues to be a challenge as well.

That all being said, I'm using the same Nokia 3120 phones that I used
over on the Blue side--but with Cingular SIMs in them, I'm seeing much
better signal overall.  MUCH better.

And you know what?  Plenty of Verizon customers have stories not unlike
yours.  I'm under no illusion that the grass is greener on the other
side of the fence.  All the providers have the same goals, and all
providers put customers in the middle like that in order to achieve
those goals.  Verizon is likely to end up pissing you off as well,
and/or Cingular is likely to make me as happy as Verizon makes you.  
Whichever, we're all in the same boat.

Frankly, I like the idea of the SIM card.  I hate the idea of Verizon
not letting me activate an older phone, for example, or crippling the
Bluetooth capabilities of their phones like they do.  When service is
tied to the HANDSET, you have your own set of problems that the SIM card
concept gets around.

I absolutely HATE to sound like John Navas here, but a post like yours
deserves a reality check.  Cingular is no angel, but neither is Verizon.  
And at least I know the source of many of Cingular's technical issues
today, and I know that their technical problems will be addressed by the
necessity of eventually moving everyone over to the orange side of the
house.
Coil - 24 Dec 2005 21:10 GMT
> I recognize this is an all too familiar story when it comes to Cingular.  
> However, if you aren't aware of the company's overall poor performance,  
> please read on:

Cingular is trying to build several new towers here in LV and is being blocked
by the city council and every street block assn. known to mankind.
Pete M - 24 Dec 2005 21:19 GMT
About a week ago, I switched from Sprint after 5-years to Cingulat, so far I
am happy with cingular service.
I live in Michigan, Sprint service regarding to drop calls was good, until
Sprint took over the Nextel. Since that time, i was getting a lot of drop
calls. In my home for somereason it's signal was fading in and out most of
the time, sometimes no signal for few second.
Customer service got very bad with a lot of waiting time on phone. It has
24/7 customer service, but recently most of the calls answers in India with
heavy Indian accents, and they are not very knowlegable about the Sprint.

One thing I must warn bout Sprint, if you change a plan or add some features
your contract will be extended.

Irenewed my Service contract on 05-17-2003 for 2-years with a free phone. On
12-15-2003 I decided to add that my Night and Weekends starts at 7.00PM, my
contract was extended  to 12-17-2005 instead of 05-17-2005.
So far I foun Cingular customer service try to help and polite conterary to
Sprint customer service.
So far I am getting better signal and  no drop calls at my location.

> I recognize this is an all too familiar story when it comes to Cingular.
> However, if you aren't aware of the company's overall poor performance,
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> the bottom for customer satisfaction.  After my experience, I certainly
> believe that.
John Navas - 25 Dec 2005 05:44 GMT
>The GSM network may be the world standard, but trust me, the US hasn't  
>figured out how to make it work.

Actually it has in most areas, your unhappy experience notwithstanding.

>AT&T provided a reasonably good cellular  
>service.  Cingular hasn't.  According to Consumer Reports, Cingular is at  
>the bottom for customer satisfaction.  After my experience, I certainly  
>believe that.

CU (publisher of Consumer Reports) didn't distinguish between GSM and TDMA,
much less handsets with and without ENS, which makes the survey badly flawed.

Signature

Best regards,        SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas          <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

Scott - 25 Dec 2005 06:16 GMT
> CU (publisher of Consumer Reports) didn't distinguish between GSM and
> TDMA,
> much less handsets with and without ENS, which makes the survey badly
> flawed.

No it doesn't- no matter the network or hardware, the experience of Cingular
customers was below that of all other major carriers- the survey captured
that accurately.  To make the statement you did, you mirror the attitude
that second class subscribers abound, which is already evident in the
business dealings of this company.

Stop trying to justify your less than realistic view of the cellular world.
Anonymous - 25 Dec 2005 06:33 GMT
>CU (publisher of Consumer Reports) didn't distinguish between GSM and TDMA,
>much less handsets with and without ENS, which makes the survey badly flawed.

In other words, it probably reflects the *AVERAGE* Cingular user.

Probably a mix of GSM (some with/without ENS) and TDMA.

Sounds prety valid good to me.

It would be UNFAIR to survey only GSM with ENS users.
SMS - 03 Jan 2006 16:51 GMT
>> CU (publisher of Consumer Reports) didn't distinguish between GSM and TDMA,
>> much less handsets with and without ENS, which makes the survey badly flawed.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> It would be UNFAIR to survey only GSM with ENS users.

The number of remaining TDMA subscribers is small enough to make the
results accurate for Cingular GSM.
John Navas - 26 Jan 2006 18:05 GMT
>>> CU (publisher of Consumer Reports) didn't distinguish between GSM and TDMA,
>>> much less handsets with and without ENS, which makes the survey badly flawed.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>The number of remaining TDMA subscribers is small enough to make the
>results accurate for Cingular GSM.

As I wrote, the inclusion of results from TDMA (blue and orange) and non-ENS
handsets (blue and orange) makes the results meaningless with regard to the
current GSM network using ENS, or any other specific technology segment for
that matter.

Signature

Best regards,        SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas          <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

Scott - 27 Jan 2006 03:42 GMT
> As I wrote, the inclusion of results from TDMA (blue and orange) and
> non-ENS
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> for
> that matter.

I see it didn't take you long to re-establish your inability to understand
even the most basic business priinciples.  You have no data to back up your
statement and are simply grasping at straws to bolster your uneducated
claim.
Steevo@my-deja.com - 25 Dec 2005 16:30 GMT
>During the first few months I had the service, I began to notice a gradual  
>increase in dropped calls, rapid busy signals, and the recorded message  
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>customer service and expressed my concerns.  Once again I was assured that  
>if I remain patient that service would improve.

They are trying, but lying at the same time.
I was at a Cingular cellsite a couple months ago, new equipment being
installed.  You won't believe it, the technician that was working on
it didn't believe it either.  

This particular cellsite was all Ericsson equipment, two cabinets
full. 12 radios.  It was all edge stuff too.  

They took out perfectly good functional Nokia Edge equipment, two
cabinets full.  Same capacity. Same speed. Same capabilities.

So Cingular, at least in this area, is removing one brand to change to
another brand, using their techs to spend days doing this rather than
installing new equipment or increasing capacity.  The tech said "this
is so stupid, someone must have paid someone off."

BTW, there were several truckloads of contractors there, changing out
the cell tower for a new one, about the same.  

Unbelievable.
John Navas - 25 Dec 2005 16:41 GMT
>>During the first few months I had the service, I began to notice a gradual  
>>increase in dropped calls, rapid busy signals, and the recorded message  
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>Unbelievable.

It's never that simple -- decisions on hardware are affected not just by what
works now, but support, maintainability, stability, upgradability,
infrastructure integration, and a host of other factors.  In particular, this
may be related to aggressive upgrade to HSDPA, for which Ericsson and Lucent
have been selected, and to IMS.

Signature

Best regards,        SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas          <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

Steevo@my-deja.com - 25 Dec 2005 20:15 GMT
>>So Cingular, at least in this area, is removing one brand to change to
>>another brand, using their techs to spend days doing this rather than
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>may be related to aggressive upgrade to HSDPA, for which Ericsson and Lucent
>have been selected, and to IMS.

Uh, yeah.  

John Navas, Cingular apologist.  John, they are a big company, they
don't need anyone to apologize for them.

I can't think of a valid reason to devote company resources to
changing out one type of equipment for another unless you just have
nothing else to do or resources are unlimited.  Unless the lease was
up, and there was a decision to be made.  That could be a valid
reason.  

Maybe the Ericsson equipment is actually better, and it may be.  But
the resources expended to change it out could have been used to fix
dead spots, expand capacity, etc.  Nope. They apparently have
different priorities, at least in Southern California.

Anyway, I don't care. I am not currently a Cingular customer. But I am
sharing that with the world as verbatim information gleaned directly.
I saw this happening with my own eyes, and I got the opinions of the
technician who was there doing the work.  Firsthand.  Not hearsay as
far as I am concerned.  

It may still be hearsay as far as you are but I have no axe to grind,
I don't pay Cingular a cent and have no interest in their system
performance.  
Bill Kearney - 28 Dec 2005 10:58 GMT
"Steevo@my-deja.com" <steevo@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> Anyway, I don't care. I am not currently a Cingular customer.

So why are you posting in a cingular newsgroup?  
Tstright - 28 Dec 2005 15:05 GMT
Bill Kearney Wrote:
> "Steevo@my-deja.com" <steevo@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > Anyway, I don't care. I am not currently a Cingular customer.
>
> So why are you posting in a cingular newsgroup?

He likes to Troll...
Steevo@my-deja.com - 28 Dec 2005 17:44 GMT
>"Steevo@my-deja.com" <steevo@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>> Anyway, I don't care. I am not currently a Cingular customer.
>
>So why are you posting in a cingular newsgroup?  
I read it because there is good information on GSM phones.  I have
some issues with my V3, and there is a lot of knowledge shared here.

I posted that piece because it was firsthand knowledge I saw with my
own eyes.  It concerned Cingular, I was standing there in a parking
lot talking to a Cingular employee.  Where would you share such
information if you had it?  

Remember the purpose of USENET?  "Share what you know, ask what you
don't."  
SMS - 03 Jan 2006 16:52 GMT
> I can't think of a valid reason to devote company resources to
> changing out one type of equipment for another unless you just have
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> I don't pay Cingular a cent and have no interest in their system
> performance.  

Whatever, the bottom line is that there was a reason to make the change,
and the fact that you can't think of it, is immaterial.
eatoranges - 02 Jan 2006 15:28 GMT
Steevo@my-deja.com Wrote:

> During the first few months I had the service, I began to notice
> gradual
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Unbelievable.

I love the "be patient" line.

cingular is turning off towers in my state, TDMA which the old Blu
customers loved. Why? coverage? no.. by turning off the tower
customers are forced in to buying orange.. that won't work with th
promise.. oh we'll build a tower <grin>.

so it is cheaper for Cingualar to replace equipment or just turn of
the tower/radios. forcing customers to "orange contracts on GSM". it i
no secret.

The integration of GSM blue sims to GSM orange sims is the issue. The
can not see each others towers without dropping the call, meaing n
handoff which causes the "dropped call".
network congestion is caused by the company not wanting to invest i
more channels and real issue is spectrum.. they don't have any.

so what do you get when you take the number 2 company and the number
company and merge them together? number 5. Each had the lowest custome
service scores before the merger. Now it is worst, internally they hav
no idea  after a year of how to make the networks see each other.

i have 2 suggestions.. for price go tmobile, they are GSM and rate
number 1 by J.D.Power in business class customer service in 2004 an
2005

the other suggestion, get the best network which is Verizon

--
eatoranges
Stephen R. Conrad - 25 Dec 2005 16:36 GMT
>  I recognize this is an all too familiar story when it comes to
> Cingular.   However, if you aren't aware of the company's overall poor
> performance,  please read on:

I have been a Cingular customer four four years with two separate
accounts, one is a family share plan. I migrated from a gait account to
GSM about 18 months ago. I have minimal complaints about the coverage in
NE Ohio and all my many encounters with customer service have been very
positive. I find that being respectful and polite with CS gets much
better results than does being pugnacious.

Stephen R. Conrad
Bob Fry - 03 Jan 2006 13:08 GMT
I've had Cingular since 1999, and started with GSM.  I've never had
significant problems, and when I did have some glitch to get
straightened out it always was.  My wife and I got on a family plan
they offered for a few months in 2000, we both have phones on a single
shared bill for only $30/month.  Sure, we also get only 100 any-time
minutes per month, no rollover, but we're not teenagers that gab all
day on the phones.

I just got back from Mexico City and it was great to have my same
phone work down there.  GSM is fine.
 
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