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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Cingular / January 2007Bye-Bye to ATT/Cingular, and hello to Sprint High-Speed data
Dont worry Cingular/ATT. I wont miss your expensive, _SLOW_ GSM data and internet speeds. The "Edge" my a.s!!! Going into warp drive on Sprint CDMA 01/22/2007 > Dont worry Cingular/ATT. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Going into warp drive on Sprint CDMA 01/22/2007 Thats fine as long as you stay in North America and never travel, otherwise, you will have a Sprint Logo'd paper weight. > Thats fine as long as you stay in North America and never travel, otherwise, > you will have a Sprint Logo'd paper weight. Except for the hundred or so countries, on every continent, that have CDMA networks. >> Thats fine as long as you stay in North America and never travel, >> otherwise, you will have a Sprint Logo'd paper weight. > > Except for the hundred or so countries, on every continent, that have > CDMA networks. You've got it backwards; you're referring to GSM..... >>> Thats fine as long as you stay in North America and never travel, >>> otherwise, you will have a Sprint Logo'd paper weight. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >You've got it backwards; you're referring to GSM..... What he's doing is deliberately confusing CDMA2000 (what most everyone else means by "CDMA") with W-CDMA UMTS (based on GSM infrastructure) in an attempt to hide the dark clouds on the horizon for CDMA2000. Similarity in names notwithstanding, they are quite different and incompatible with each other, and W-CDMA is on the march as compared to CDMA2000.  SignatureBest regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS: John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ> >>>> Thats fine as long as you stay in North America and never travel, >>>> otherwise, you will have a Sprint Logo'd paper weight. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > incompatible with each other, and W-CDMA is on the march as compared to > CDMA2000. No, I don't think he's confusing that. If you look at this page http://www.cdg.org/technology/product_pavilion/cdma2000_operators.asp you'll find a list of 99 "countries" (Hong Kong, Macau, Guam and Saipan might be debatable) where CDMA2000 has been or is being deployed. And if you look over here http://www.cdg.org/technology/product_pavilion/cdmaOne_operators.asp you'll probably find enough IS-95-only operators to pass 100 (ah, found one: Myanmar). So there's a "hundred or so" CDMA2000/IS-95 countries. What he isn't mentioning, of course, is that the number of these countries you are likely to be able to roam on with your Sprint phone is well under half of them. Some of those countries haven't had the service deployed yet or are otherwise science fiction. Some are 450 MHz services, which a Sprint phone can't roam on. Some, like Australia, you'd better get to quickly before they turn it off. Others simply may not have roaming agreements with Sprint because CDMA operators are stingy with that. It is only quite recently that a Sprint phone would work in South Korea, for example. Verizon is worse, they only list 20 CDMA roaming countries and some places where I know a Sprint phone works (Hong Kong, Trinidad & Tobago) a Verizon phone won't. I do agree that if you want phone service that works almost everywhere you travel with a GSM phone that also supports 2100 MHz UMTS. Dennis Ferguson >>>>> Thats fine as long as you stay in North America and never travel, >>>>> otherwise, you will have a Sprint Logo'd paper weight. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >you'll probably find enough IS-95-only operators to pass 100 (ah, found one: >Myanmar). So there's a "hundred or so" CDMA2000/IS-95 countries. Point taken, although I think that's a pretty big stretch -- see below. >What he isn't mentioning, of course, is that the number of these countries >you are likely to be able to roam on with your Sprint phone is well under [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I know a Sprint phone works (Hong Kong, Trinidad & Tobago) a Verizon phone >won't. The key phrase there is "science fiction". ;) I was referring to countries with working CDMA2000 coverage that's relatively complete. >I do agree that if you want phone service that works almost everywhere you >travel with a GSM phone that also supports 2100 MHz UMTS. Yep. SignatureBest regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS: John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ> > Verizon > is worse, they only list 20 CDMA roaming countries and some places where > I know a Sprint phone works (Hong Kong, Trinidad & Tobago) a Verizon phone > won't. You can roam on CDMA networks in some countries that aren't listed on the Verizon web site. G-d knows how much you'll end up paying per minute. > Except for the hundred or so countries, on every continent, that have > CDMA networks. How many of those countries' carriers actually have roaming agreements with Sprint? (I've never owned a CDMA phone- I went analog to TDMA to GSM, so my knowledge of Sprint and Verizon has very little depth, but I thought they rented/sold their customers GSM phones to roam with. Why would they need to if their customers could just roam on CDMA?) >> Except for the hundred or so countries, on every continent, that have >> CDMA networks. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > rented/sold their customers GSM phones to roam with. Why would they need > to if their customers could just roam on CDMA?) Actually CDMA is very robust. It supports up to 6 connections at the same time. makes handoffs very successful,less dropped calls. GSM does "SOUND" better..but here in California its all on 1900Mhz and it stops at the door in a lot of newer buildings. Sprint's data system is fast..but their coverage suffers due to the 1900Mhz band also. Both verizon and Sprint beat Cingular's poor attempt at data delivery. Cingular's data is like sh.tting thru a sock.You see it, you smell it...but it aint going anywhere fast > Actually CDMA is very robust. It supports up to 6 connections at the same > time. makes handoffs very successful,less dropped calls. > GSM does "SOUND" better..but here in California its all on 1900Mhz and it > stops at the door in a lot of newer buildings. GSM is mostly at 800 MHz in California, it's the old TDMA network of AT&T and a couple of small TDMA carriers that went to GSM. T-Mobile is at 1900 MHz, having taken over the old Cingular 1900 MHz-only GSM network. >>> Except for the hundred or so countries, on every continent, that have >>> CDMA networks. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Cingular's data is like sh.tting thru a sock.You see it, you smell > it...but it aint going anywhere fast Are we talking data or voice here? Cingular data does NOT use gsm and furthermore, UMTS/HSDPA is Wideband CDMA rather than the old narrowband CDMA used by Verizon and Sprint. After experimenting with usb serial buffer size, I get consistent, 1.75mbs thoughput off of a 1.8mbs tower using a Novatel XU870 with a pcmcia caddy on Cingular's HSDPA network, towers are going to start being upgraded to 7.2mbs this month as well. My latency is also down in the 100's now. I have used CDMA recently but found the thoughput to be bursty and not steadily high, the latency was also bad enough to cause many services not to work at all. I would consider Sprint again when they deploy WiMax in a few years and it even comes close to the hype. I would never consider Verizon regardless of technology they will use to supplant CDMA simply for their Draconian usage policies, they are dropping people right and left for actually using broadband as if it were broadband. There is a good reason why CDMA is not being deployed all over the world the way W-CDMA or as we know it, HSDPA is. The lack of a sim card is also an inconvenience. I think once we hit 14.4mbs in three years, Cingular will also be moving on to something else to supplant it much like Verizon and Sprint are already working on doing in the not too distant future. What an expensive hobby this is! Dave Sprint coverage has increased significanlty in the past 3 to 4 months due to adding CDMA equipment to almost all of the Nextel Towers. They don't have the fight the nimbys to do it. Sprint coverage is unsurpassed on SoCal. >>> Except for the hundred or so countries, on every continent, that have >>> CDMA networks. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Cingular's data is like sh.tting thru a sock.You see it, you smell > it...but it aint going anywhere fast > Sprint coverage has increased significanlty in the past 3 to 4 months due to > adding CDMA equipment to almost all of the Nextel Towers. They don't have > the fight the nimbys to do it. Sprint coverage is unsurpassed on SoCal. John Navas will soon be down to shove a hot poker up your a.s. I dare you to say anything bad about Motorola equipment. Then it wouldn't be a hot poker; it would be a flaming blowtorch. (hmmmm....Navas...Mij...flaming...how appropriate) >> Except for the hundred or so countries, on every continent, that have >> CDMA networks. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > rented/sold their customers GSM phones to roam with. Why would they need > to if their customers could just roam on CDMA?) I have no idea. Every CDMA country I've been to in Asia I could use my Verizon phone...if I wanted to. I didn't. I took along an unlocked GSM phone and bought a prepaid SIM card, or I rented a CDMA phone because it was cheaper than roaming (Korea). This was all on Verizon. Even when I had Cingular, and could roam in GSM countries, it was still better to buy a prepaid SIM card. I know that with Verizon, you can actually roam in countries that they don't show on their web site as having roaming capability. It's definitely true that you have more available roaming with GSM, but it's a big mistake to state that only North America has CDMA, when in reality CDMA is continuing to increase its market share worldwide. > I know that with Verizon, you can actually roam in countries that they > don't show on their web site as having roaming capability. Yikes. Sounds dangerous. I'd hate to see the bill you might get for essentially using an undocumented feature, where they could make up whatever rules they wished. --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com >> Thats fine as long as you stay in North America and never travel, >> otherwise, you will have a Sprint Logo'd paper weight. > > Except for the hundred or so countries, on every continent, that have > CDMA networks. How many continents have 100 or so countries on them? Interesting geography lesson you have here! Dave > >> Thats fine as long as you stay in North America and never travel, > >> otherwise, you will have a Sprint Logo'd paper weight. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > How many continents have 100 or so countries on them? Interesting geography > lesson you have here! I didn't read this that every continent has 100 countries, but that 100 countries are spread over the continents. Though technically Antartica doesn't have ANY countries. > I didn't read this that every continent has 100 countries, but that > 100 countries are spread over the continents. Though technically > Antartica doesn't have ANY countries. Yes, my mistake. The point was that CDMA networks are in many countries, all around the world, including Asia, Europe, North and South America, Africa, and Australia. CDMA market share continues to increase, though admittedly one reason is that in Europe and Asia they are starting from a very low share. >> I didn't read this that every continent has 100 countries, but that >> 100 countries are spread over the continents. Though technically [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >all around the world, including Asia, Europe, North and South America, >Africa, and Australia. Actually very few, since "CDMA" is generally taken to mean CDMA2000. >CDMA market share continues to increase, though >admittedly one reason is that in Europe and Asia they are starting from >a very low share. Only if you deliberately try to confuse CDMA2000 with W-CDMA UMTS, which is a completely different animal. On its own, CMDA2000 is in serious trouble. SignatureBest regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS: John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ> >> Thats fine as long as you stay in North America and never travel, otherwise, >> you will have a Sprint Logo'd paper weight. > >Except for the hundred or so countries, on every continent, that have >CDMA networks. Pure fantasy. SignatureBest regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS: John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ> > Pure fantasy. Prove it, please. There are a large number of countries using CDMA or your version of sticking your tongue out at the facts is rather juvenile and becoming quite boring. Or is your claim of 'pure fantasy' in reference to your wish fr knowledge on the subject? With all of the CDMA roaming agreements that Sprint has, they have much better voice and data coverage. >> Dont worry Cingular/ATT. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thats fine as long as you stay in North America and never travel, > otherwise, you will have a Sprint Logo'd paper weight. > With all of the CDMA roaming agreements that Sprint has, they have much > better voice and data coverage. The problem with Sprint is that they don't allow roaming onto the Verizon network if they have their own network for that area, even if their own coverage is poor. This is the situation in California. There are many areas where the native Sprint coverage is very poor, mainly due to their late entry, fewer towers, and 1900 MHz spectrum. They even let my last boss out of his contract with no termination fee when their service didn't work at his home in Fremont. Another colleague of mine had Sprint for years with no service at her house in Cupertino, she only switched to another carrier when she actually wanted coverage at her house, in order to have mobile to mobile free calls with her kids that went off to college. It's ironic that the best Sprint coverage is where they have no network at all, so you can roam onto Verizon. Now Sprint has done away with its "Fair and Flexible" pricing plans, eliminating another reason to choose them. They are hemorrhaging customers like AT&T Wireless was doing prior to their meltdown and takeover. >> With all of the CDMA roaming agreements that Sprint has, they have much >> better voice and data coverage. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > eliminating another reason to choose them. They are hemorrhaging customers > like AT&T Wireless was doing prior to their meltdown and takeover. That is not the case here in Philadelphia. My phone will get onto Verizon digital if there is no Sprint signal. (If I am on a call, the call will drop, but I can immediately redial and Verizon carries it--Sprint does not hand my calls off to Verizon if the calls are in progress). I can set my phone to "Roam Only" and it will connect with the Verizon tower. Perhaps they have different roaming agreements in different parts of the country? I have never seen a "no signal" area--my phone always connects with something--and 99%+ it connects with Sprint. I don't do much roaming outside my home area, but here in Philly the coverage has been excellent. SMS, You seem to need some education in this area: (Listen carefully and learn): I live in Laguna Niguel in Southern California and had been a Verizon customer for about 10 years back to the days when it was Airtouch Cellular. I moved to a new area of Laguna Niguel where Verizon did not have coverage. They sent a technician to my home and about a week later they had a report that the signal was not usable at my home and that there would be no new cell sites installed to cover that area in the near future. Cingular and T-Mobile also do not function in my area since it is surrounded by hills. Sprint happens to have a cell on a building about 1/2 mile down the street and I get full signal here. Verizon cancelled my contract due to lack of ability to provide coverage and I switched to Sprint. I have been with Sprint for the past several years and have been very satisfied with coverage in SoCal and throughout my travels within the US. BTW, Sprint will roam on Verizon in Southern California. I can fore roaming now and I will have a Verizon SID. The opposite is not true for Verizon. Verizon cannot roam on Sprint in SoCal as Verizon removed this option about three years ago. If you cannot get a Verizon signal in SoCal then you are out-of-luck because there is no other CDMA roaming partner to roam on, even if Sprint has a usable signal, it is not possible to use it. You can thank me later, but if you need anymore remedial education, please let me know. :-) -mij >> With all of the CDMA roaming agreements that Sprint has, they have much >> better voice and data coverage. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > eliminating another reason to choose them. They are hemorrhaging customers > like AT&T Wireless was doing prior to their meltdown and takeover. And the point of your post is? > SMS, > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >> customers like AT&T Wireless was doing prior to their meltdown and >> takeover. >Dont worry Cingular/ATT. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Going into warp drive on Sprint CDMA 01/22/2007 Out of the frying pan into the fire. Every year: Consumer Reports, The Yankee Group, and J D Power rate Sprint worse than Cingular for Customer Support and Service. Do were you born yesterday and do you believe everything that you read? There are areas where Sprint will kick Cingular's a.s and vice versa. It all depends upon the area that you use the phone. For some folks, Sprint is better, for other folks Cingular, and for other folks, Verizon or T-Mobile. Get the idea? >>Dont worry Cingular/ATT. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Consumer Reports, The Yankee Group, and J D Power rate Sprint worse > than Cingular for Customer Support and Service. > Every year: > > Consumer Reports, The Yankee Group, and J D Power rate Sprint worse > than Cingular for Customer Support and Service. Sprint is indeed one of the worst for coverage and customer support. However they do have some advantages as well. They have nights and weekends starting at 7:00 p.m. They allow roaming onto more AMPS networks than Verizon's current plans (Verizon's ACII plan eliminated a lot of AMPS roaming, according to their maps. In California's metro areas, Sprint coverage is poor (see the January Consumer Reports). This is due to several reasons, including their late entry, and their 1900 MHz spectrum. Often people will think that they can simply roam onto Verizon from Sprint, but this is usually not the case. If Sprint has a network, they don't let you roam onto Verizon in the Sprint dead spots (and vice-versa). There are parts of the country where Sprint is just fine, but if you need a service where you can count on the best coverage in both metro areas and less dense areas, then Verizon is your best bet, as Consumer Reports showed. > > Every year: > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > areas and less dense areas, then Verizon is your best bet, as Consumer > Reports showed. Sprint is allegedly fine in Houston, but such is not the case. Many dead spots. 1900 MHz causes poor indoor reception in many areas Still the biodegradeable Sprint phones, and 1900 MHz phones run hot, causes the early deaths. Dropped calls all the time. Unable to make calls when useage is up (as when it starts raining) - Honey I'll be home late, you might have wanted to say. Go away Jack as no one will ever take anything seriously that you say about Sprint. You have had a hard-on for Sprint since they dropped you for not paying your bill. Do a Google search on Jack and you will findout the truth about Jack and Sprint. >> > Every year: >> > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Unable to make calls when useage is up (as when it starts raining) - > Honey I'll be home late, you might have wanted to say. >> > Every year: >> > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >Unable to make calls when useage is up (as when it starts raining) - >Honey I'll be home late, you might have wanted to say. Must be exactly correct if Mij has to lapse into made-up personal attacks, rather than try (which he can't) to argue factually. >>> > Every year: >>> > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > made-up personal attacks, rather than try (which he can't) > to argue factually. There is no personal attack here. Google the sprintpcs newsgroup and you will get the facts regarding Jack. >>>> > Every year: >>>> > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >There is no personal attack here. Google the sprintpcs newsgroup and you >will get the facts regarding Jack. You will get Sprint apologists making personal attacks. I still note that mij can not dispute that facts how B A D Sprint is. He just invents stories to throw mud at Jack. Same old tale, don't like the message, attack the messenger. The facts remain how B A D Sprint is. > You will get Sprint apologists making personal attacks. I still note > that mij can not dispute that facts how B A D Sprint is. And I still note that you made outrageous claims that could not be substantiated. > He just > invents stories to throw mud at Jack. Talking about yourself in the third person is so juvenile. > Same old tale, don't like the message, attack the messenger. No- this is a case of not liking the messenger and having no reason to believe the message. >1900 MHz causes poor indoor reception in many areas That's due to tower placement, not frequency. >Still the biodegradeable Sprint phones, and 1900 MHz phones run hot, >causes the early deaths. 1900 MHz phones don't run any hotter than phones on other frequencies. SignatureBest regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS: John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ> >In California's metro areas, Sprint coverage is poor (see the January >Consumer Reports). This is due to several reasons, including their late >entry, and their 1900 MHz spectrum. ... The frequency has almost nothing to do with it. The real issue is tower siting. SignatureBest regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS: John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ> "Mij Adyaw" <mij@SpamBucket.com> wrote in message news:... > SMS, > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >> customers like AT&T Wireless was doing prior to their meltdown and >> takeover. > Dont worry Cingular/ATT. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Going into warp drive on Sprint CDMA 01/22/2007 The latest Sprint television ad regarding data is pretty hard-hitting. They used to compare their EVDO speed to Cingular EDGE, which wasn't really fair as Cingular does have HSDPA in the top metro areas. The new ad is two guys using their notebooks and someone is listing a bunch of cities (all secondary markets) and the Sprint guy keeps saying "Yes," while the Cingular guy says "No". Regardless of the data advantages of Sprint, Cingular had an excellent fourth quarter 2006, while Sprint had a terrible 4Q2006. > Dont worry Cingular/ATT. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Going into warp drive on Sprint CDMA 01/22/2007 Sprint didn't even have good coverage at my home here in Oklahoma (though it was good 4 miles away at work). But, since you could occasionally pick up a Sprint tower (even though it was likely I would get dropped shortly), I couldn't even use their roaming. So their coverage overseas doesn't matter to me. -- |
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