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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Cingular / April 2007

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How to identify problematic model phones.

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karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net - 17 Apr 2007 13:30 GMT
really simple.

just go look online where Cingular sells phones.

i.e.
http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phones/flip-phones.jsp

and if a particular model is available for sale as a refurb, it means
they are getting many back, either cause of customer dissatisfaction,
or repair issues, or both.

You might want to avoid such models.
Todd Allcock - 17 Apr 2007 15:06 GMT
> really simple.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> You might want to avoid such models.

Or, it's a case where they've sold a gazillion, and a "normal" rate of
return results in a big pile!

Most of the refurbs tend to be cheap low-end models- these will sell in
higher numbers, and even a normal failure rate will result in a good
number of available refurbs.  Add to that non-defective returns of "test-
drives" and that's a lot of refurbs for sale.

My refurb Cingular Nokia 3120b I bought a year ago was a steal at $30
with no commitment and is working fine unlocked with T-Mo prepaid
service.  I wanted a cheap, reliable, small 850/1900 phone as a backup
and the 3120b fit the biil. (At that time, T-Mo's entry-level was the
similarly priced and featured, but much larger, Nokia 6010.)
John Navas - 17 Apr 2007 20:03 GMT
>> really simple.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>number of available refurbs.  Add to that non-defective returns of "test-
>drives" and that's a lot of refurbs for sale.

It's quite normal for more than 90% of returns to be "no trouble found"
-- in other words, returned for reasons other than product performance
(e.g., want a different color).

>My refurb Cingular Nokia 3120b I bought a year ago was a steal at $30
>with no commitment and is working fine unlocked with T-Mo prepaid
>service.  I wanted a cheap, reliable, small 850/1900 phone as a backup
>and the 3120b fit the biil. (At that time, T-Mo's entry-level was the
>similarly priced and featured, but much larger, Nokia 6010.)

The quality of _factory_ refurbs tends to be as good or better than new
production.

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Best regards,        FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas          <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

Kurt - 17 Apr 2007 21:13 GMT
> >My refurb Cingular Nokia 3120b I bought a year ago was a steal at $30
> >with no commitment and is working fine unlocked with T-Mo prepaid
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> The quality of _factory_ refurbs tends to be as good or better than new
> production.

My experience with most electronics (never had a refurbed phone, though)
is that the refurb units have had any problems they were prone to have
fixed. I've never had one go bad on me, and that goes from Nikon cameras
to Apple computers, and a lot in between.
New electronics, if they fail, usually do it well within the first year.

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Elmo P. Shagnasty - 17 Apr 2007 15:43 GMT
> just go look online where Cingular sells phones.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> they are getting many back, either cause of customer dissatisfaction,
> or repair issues, or both.

Another way is to look for the brand name "Motorola" on the phone.
John Navas - 17 Apr 2007 16:00 GMT
>> just go look online where Cingular sells phones.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Another way is to look for the brand name "Motorola" on the phone.

Just remember to take Usenet flames with a grain of salt.  ;)

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John Navas - 17 Apr 2007 15:59 GMT
>really simple.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>You might want to avoid such models.

Not necessarily.  Not so simple.  The availability of refurbs is normal
on high-volume products no matter how good they are; e.g.,
          Volume   Return Rate   Returns
Phone A   500,000        1%         5,000
Phone B    10,000       10%         1,000

Phone A is clearly more reliable than Phone B even though it has many
times the number of returns.  Thus what matters is the return rate, not
the number of returns.

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Best regards,        FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas          <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net - 17 Apr 2007 16:08 GMT
>>really simple.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>times the number of returns.  Thus what matters is the return rate, not
>the number of returns.

If its only 1% return they would not  need to push refurbs on the web.

And many low selling phones (can you say LG ? ) have refurbs
available.
John Navas - 17 Apr 2007 16:46 GMT
>>Not necessarily.  Not so simple.  The availability of refurbs is normal
>>on high-volume products no matter how good they are; e.g.,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>If its only 1% return they would not  need to push refurbs on the web.

That doesn't follow.

>And many low selling phones (can you say LG ? ) have refurbs
>available.

Your point?

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Best regards,        FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas          <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net - 17 Apr 2007 18:17 GMT
>>>Not necessarily.  Not so simple.  The availability of refurbs is normal
>>>on high-volume products no matter how good they are; e.g.,
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Your point?

Wonderful how you play dumb when your guess is disputed.
Todd H. - 17 Apr 2007 20:58 GMT
> >>really simple.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> If its only 1% return they would not  need to push refurbs on the
> web.

Bad conclusion if you ask me.  In the example above they've got 4x as
many units to unload.  Do you think they'd keep from marketing those
refurbs because the return rate was low?  Of course not.

Return rate wouldn't gate marketing on the web site, absolute numbers
are much more likely to. As John's example indicated, the existence of
refurbs for sale could very ewll be a red herring in reliability for a
high selling phone.

> And many low selling phones (can you say LG ? ) have refurbs
> available.

Perhaps because their return rate is horrible?  

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Todd H.  
http://toddh.net/

karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net - 18 Apr 2007 19:19 GMT
>> And many low selling phones (can you say LG ? ) have refurbs
>> available.
>
>Perhaps because their return rate is horrible?  

Exactly my point.
 
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