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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Cingular / November 2003GAIT Questions
For anyone who has much experience with GAIT phones, I have a few questions. I just got my SIM and had it activated using my Nokia 6340i. However, because I am roaming, I experienced some problems. When I was asked to dial *18 the call would not go through. I got the message, "Message B-I-S-32. Welcome to Cellular One. We're sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed. Please check the number and dial again." The only unusual thing I am noticing so far is that this area is showing "Cingular Extend" when it should be displaying "Cingular" (I'm on the Preferred Nation). Is *18 some kind of OTA IRDB update? I also have a SE T62u. I got both phones because the Nokia has better battery life, but it would be easier for me to use the T62u with external antennae already purchased (which is important to me, espeically with my rural travels). Is there any easy way for me to take the SIM out of the 6340i and put it into the T62u so I could immediately use it? I was under the impression from customer care that I could take the SIM out and put it into the other phone with no problem. Should I be able to do that, or do I have to call Cingular every time I leave town to have it switched? Cingular did not ask me for the ESN of the T62u, so that might be part of the problem. Any help would be appreciated. This is my first actual experience with a SIM, and handset freedoms not easily experienced with CDMA carriers. AD > The only unusual thing I am noticing so far is that this area > is showing "Cingular Extend" when it should be displaying "Cingular" > (I'm on the Preferred Nation). You'll still see Cingular Extend when you're on one of their Nation plans. You'll just never see roaming, that's all. Sounds like you were out of your home area, AND out of a Cingular-owned area. You were on a separate system that Cingular is leasing time from, so you didn't have access to Cingular-specific features. > Is there any easy way for me to take the SIM out of the 6340i and put it > into the T62u so I could immediately use it? I was under the impression > from customer care that I could take the SIM out and put it into the > other phone with no problem. Should I be able to do that, or do I have > to call Cingular every time I leave town to have it switched? No. The SIM *is* you. Put it in the Sony and turn it on. Voila. >>The only unusual thing I am noticing so far is that this area >>is showing "Cingular Extend" when it should be displaying "Cingular" [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > No. The SIM *is* you. Put it in the Sony and turn it on. Voila. That's what I had thought. However, when I switch the SIM and turn it on, I am unable to make or receive calls on the Sony. I guess it must have to do with the fact that I'm roaming on a TDMA/AMPS system? AD > I guess it must > have to do with the fact that I'm roaming on a TDMA/AMPS system? That would be the case, yes. The SIM card controls GSM stuff. > >>The only unusual thing I am noticing so far is that this area > >>is showing "Cingular Extend" when it should be displaying "Cingular" [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > AD The SIM is transferable, but the T62U and 6340i also have ESN's for TDMA and AMPS areas. If they ESN doesn't get switched, the phone won't work. I don't care what you've heard, GAIT phones require an ESN change to work when on TDMA...period. I've even had people that have been assigned a TDMA channel in the local area, had the wrong ESN and got the recording, "We do not recognize your number as an authorized user" Mark > .... Voila ...another geek word :)  Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273 "All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of what we know." -- Richard Wilbur > > The only unusual thing I am noticing so far is that this area > > is showing "Cingular Extend" when it should be displaying "Cingular" > > (I'm on the Preferred Nation). > > You'll still see Cingular Extend when you're on one of their Nation > plans. You'll just never see roaming, that's all. I saw "Cingular Extend" for the first time today. It is still a free call? (Well, I mean as free as a "Cingular" call) > > You'll still see Cingular Extend when you're on one of their Nation > > plans. You'll just never see roaming, that's all. > > > I saw "Cingular Extend" for the first time today. It is still a free call? That depends on your plan. For my Preferred Nation plan, yes. > > > You'll still see Cingular Extend when you're on one of their Nation > > > plans. You'll just never see roaming, that's all. > > > > > I saw "Cingular Extend" for the first time today. It is still a free call? > > That depends on your plan. For my Preferred Nation plan, yes. For my pref nation, cingular extends costs for me. 59 cents a minute, even though it says 79 cents on my plan. Who knows , , , > > > You'll still see Cingular Extend when you're on one of their Nation > > > plans. You'll just never see roaming, that's all. > > > > > I saw "Cingular Extend" for the first time today. It is still a free call? > > That depends on your plan. For my Preferred Nation plan, yes. I have "Cingular Nation". My understanding is that all calls simply count against my 500 minutes. The map indicates that I either have service under the plan, or there is no service. So, I don't understand why it shows "extend". Is that just an artifact from other plans? I have an email into the sales rep at Cingular about this, but I am not holding my breath; and I am certainly not bothering to call customer disservice. Thanks. >>>>You'll still see Cingular Extend when you're on one of their Nation >>>>plans. You'll just never see roaming, that's all. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > disservice. > Thanks. As I was told, Cingular Extend refers to areas where you will be charged the roaming rate if applicable (on either Super Home, statewide, or Preferred Nation plans). However, when roaming in North Dakota, I am using the Western Wireless (Cellular One [West}) network. The TDMA came up with the "Cingular" banner, but the AMPS came up with "Cingular Extend". This is a very rural area, and I am either on WW or Verizon (which never seems to happen here). I have always wondered why the AMPS comes up Extend but the TDMA does not, especially when they have the same SID. I'm going to call Cingular on Monday (since I worked all day, I couldn't today) and ask about my banner. On my Moto C331t I have "Cingular" as teh banner for Home Tag, Partner Tag, and Favored Tag. I have "Cingular Extend" as the banner for Neutral Tag. I'm guessing the 6340i and T62u have a similar setting (which is hopefully stored on the SIM)? AD > > > > You'll still see Cingular Extend when you're on one of their Nation > > > > plans. You'll just never see roaming, that's all. > > > > > > > I saw "Cingular Extend" for the first time today. It is still a free > call? My understanding is that since GSM allows interop between carriers, Cingular has deals with other carriers in the coverage area to "co-handle" traffic. As an example, as i travel along I may be getting a stronger GSM signal from AT&T than from Cingular, so that is the service my phone will talk to. Since they have an interop agreement with Cingular, it shows up as AT&T on my phone, but counts as Cingular minutes. If I get too far away from a GSM tower, i may fall back to Cingular TDMA. That is when Cingular Extend shows up as my banner. I will not be charged roaming since I am still in the local Cingular market area, just not on GSM. All this is per a very helpful and knowledgable rep at Customer service. Tim N. > > > > > You'll still see Cingular Extend when you're on one of their Nation > > > > > plans. You'll just never see roaming, that's all. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Tim N. I kinda question your "knowledgable rep". Although a lot of users, especially in Calif, would LIKE full interop that has never been advertised nor is it what people are actually reporting. For a GAIT phone whose home area is GSM, if you loose a Cingular GSM signal the phone will attempt to find Cingular TDMA. If unsuccessful it will then look for a preferred GSM carrier and then a preferred TDMA carrier. If you are within your home area roaming agreements apparently DO NOT allow for another carrier to handle the call and either the phone won't register with that carrier at all (if the IRDB is correct--seems to be the most reported situaton) or if the IRDB is wrong the phone will lock onto a carrier but an actual call won't complete without an error. They seem to have really fxxxxd up with the "Cingular" and "Cingular Extend" labels. So far in Texas it's been pretty clearcut--it says "Cingular" if it's on a native Cingular system--it says "Cingular Extend" if it's on any other carrier. I haven't been outside my plan area (Texas statewide) yet but if it still shows "Cingular" in a city outside the plan I would pay roaming charges and the label would be useless. If it says "Cingular Extend" in that case it would be more correct but then why bother--HOME and ROAM would have been more meaningful. Situations where there are no roaming charges but "home only" things like "mobile-to-mobile minutes" or "nights/weekend minutes" aren't available simply cannot be reflected with only two labels. They could have done that with three labels: "Cingular" (no roaming charges, all home-only features available), "Extend" (no roaming charges but home- only features are not available), and "Roam" (roaming charges apply and home-only features are not available). Personally I'd like to also see the actual carrier name maybe on a 2nd line--like the GSM/TDMA/AMPS indicator--not critical but "nice" to have. Even if the IRDB by itself couldn't be used to determine the exact status--that COULD easily be determined WHEN THE PHONE REGISTERS ON THE SYSTEM. Someone check me on this but isn't a connection made then back to your home system to setup call delivery, verify billing status, call forwarding, voice mail forwarding etc. During that handshake the two systems could easily figure out the roaming charge and extended feature status and then send the info to the phone. Gee, more "nice" indicators like RoamCharge/NO, VoiceMail/NO, SMS Delivery/NO, SMS-Send/NO, SpecialFeatures/NO etc. SignatureJud Dallas TX USA >>>>>>You'll still see Cingular Extend when you're on one of their Nation >>>>>>plans. You'll just never see roaming, that's all. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > the most reported situaton) or if the IRDB is wrong the phone will lock > onto a carrier but an actual call won't complete without an error. This makes more sense to me than absolutely no roaming coverage in your home area. I am on Preferred Nation, and when I am in my home area, I often roam on AT&T. I know this because when I dial *89 to check my voicemail, I have gotten a message from AT&T, "You are registered as roaming", or "Welcome to AT&T Wireless Services. We're sorry, your call could not be completed as dialed" or other like messages. Whether or not SuperHome or Home plans that are TDMA can roam on AT&T...I don't know. > They seem to have really fxxxxd up with the "Cingular" and "Cingular > Extend" labels. So far in Texas it's been pretty clearcut--it says [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > correct but then why bother--HOME and ROAM would have been more > meaningful. From what I understand, Cingular and Cingular Extend apply only to the Preferred Nation plans. > Situations where there are no roaming charges but "home only" things > like "mobile-to-mobile minutes" or "nights/weekend minutes" aren't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the actual carrier name maybe on a 2nd line--like the GSM/TDMA/AMPS > indicator--not critical but "nice" to have. On most plans, including Cingular Nation and Preferred Nation, included features such as MTM or N/W minutes apply wherever your day minutes do. I don't have MTM, but friends who call me when I'm on the Preferred Nation network are billed MTM. My night/weekend minutes work all over the place. I've used N/W minutes in Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, North Dakota, and South Dakota. Some plans may be different. Like the old Preferred Nations that don't have *any* roaming at all. > Even if the IRDB by itself couldn't be used to determine the exact > status--that COULD easily be determined WHEN THE PHONE REGISTERS ON THE [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > like RoamCharge/NO, VoiceMail/NO, SMS Delivery/NO, SMS-Send/NO, > SpecialFeatures/NO etc. That would be nice. However, it would take more than Cingular to upgrade their current TDMA and GSM systems. It would talke ALL of Cingular's roaming partners to upgrade their systems as well. Plus, if a system didn't work with AMPS (analog), would it be better to cut out the analog service, which can be a large part of a coverage area, for a service that will work only is some areas? It seems that even TDMA uses analog as a back up on a regular basis. I think that was the intention of a GAIT phone, to use primarily GSM, then TDMA or analog as a back up. AD > For anyone who has much experience with GAIT phones, I have a few > questions. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > AD Moving the active GAIT SIM from the 6340i to T62u will transfer your GSM calling over, with no intervention from Cingular required. However, the phone won't operate in TDMA/AMPS until you tell Cingular about the change in ESN (or as you're finding, not recognized). I'm a 6340i owner, also. Truly, I think you need a consultation with Cingular's technical support. You should call in on another phone, so that you can manipulate the GAIT phone as requested. Just out of curiosity, where are you? I've seen mine do all modes, except analog, traveling within 150 miles of Memphis, TN. 800/1900 MHz, GSM/TDMA and all on Cingular. I could see analog if I reroute through Centennial Wireless country in NE Louisiana. John C. > Moving the active GAIT SIM from the 6340i to T62u will transfer your > GSM calling over, with no intervention from Cingular required. However, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You should call in on another phone, so that you can manipulate the GAIT > phone as requested. Just out of curiosity, where are you? Right now I am in college in North Dakota. Last night, I just left my SIM in my T62u so I could monitor battery life and signal, and I saw it in all three modes last night. When it was in GSM, I could not place a call, however, but I think that is because the GSM system here is not officially live yet. > I've seen mine do all modes, except analog, traveling within 150 miles of > Memphis, TN. 800/1900 MHz, GSM/TDMA and all on Cingular. I could see > analog if I reroute through Centennial Wireless country in NE Louisiana. If I'm running TDMA or GSM, how do I tell what frequency I am picking up? In my location, there are no PCS tower, and just two carriers, each having analog, so I know that I am running in the 800 band. > John C. AD > > Moving the active GAIT SIM from the 6340i to T62u will transfer your > > GSM calling over, with no intervention from Cingular required. However, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > AD The Nokia 6340i "Field Test" screens 01-01 through 01-13 give you some hints on GSM operation. The 21-01 through 21-09 will be familiar if you've used a Nokia TDMA phone before. 21-01 will show what band you are on, and a channel number. The 01-01 shows a GSM channel number (wider channels) that I don't yet know enough to interpret. I really am starting to believe that your account's ESN field is either blank or incorrect. If you see this in time, call Cingular before the 1800 CDT Saturday closing. Or perhaps after-hours support at 866-802-2922. Since you're in TDMA territory, ESN is everything. Pick one phone of the two, and stay with it. In GSM territory, you can readily switch SIMs. John C. > The Nokia 6340i "Field Test" screens 01-01 through 01-13 give you some > hints on GSM operation. The 21-01 through 21-09 will be familiar if you've [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > John C. Thanks for the info. Is there a way to tell on the T62u that you know of? Around midnight every night I pick up a GSM signal, but it has all dimined by 1:00. On Cingular's GSM Nation map, I am in an areas that is estimated "By the end of 2003". That's what I'm really curious about, whether or not I am actually picking up GSM signal that is testing, or whether it's a fluke. When I try calling, nothing happens. Then it goes to TDMA for a few minutes, but then back to GSM. AD >> The Nokia 6340i "Field Test" screens 01-01 through 01-13 give you some >> hints on GSM operation. The 21-01 through 21-09 will be familiar if [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > AD Oh, I forgot to mention that when the GSM icon is active, the banner still says "Cingular Extend". AD > When I was asked to dial *18 the call would not go through. I got the > message, "Message B-I-S-32. Welcome to Cellular One. We're sorry, your *18 is NOT a Cingular specific feature--it is the old style "follow me roaming" activation code. It hasn't been needed for years not even on TDMA/AMPS, not since ACD automatic call delivery became common. WHO "asked" you to dial it? It still should work to toggle all forwarding (*19 is the "off" function) but the phone would already have to be registered and working correctly on a system which yours probably wasn't at the time. > I also have a SE T62u. I got both phones because the Nokia has better > battery life, but it would be easier for me to use the T62u with > external antennae already purchased (which is important to me, > espeically with my rural travels). Huh? The 6340i has an antenna adapter on the back. How much easier can the T62U be than just plugging an external antenna cable into the Nokia connector? They even make a combination antenna/power (lighter plug) coiled cable for the 5xxx/6xxx phones. I have the full car kit which also uses the rear antenna connector--it connects when you seat the phone in the holder. > Is there any easy way for me to take the SIM out of the 6340i and put it > into the T62u so I could immediately use it? I was under the impression [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > did not ask me for the ESN of the T62u, so that might be part of the > problem. Moving the SIM would allow GSM to work on both phones without intervention but I believe you'd have to go thru CS to change the ESN for TDMA/AMPS. Again, I don't think you're getting enough benefit swapping these two phones to justify the hassle. Some people are doing that to switch to a full-bells-and-whistles feature-loaded GSM-only phone when TDMA/AMPS isn't needed. SignatureJud Dallas TX USA >>When I was asked to dial *18 the call would not go through. I got the >>message, "Message B-I-S-32. Welcome to Cellular One. We're sorry, your [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > registered and working correctly on a system which yours probably wasn't > at the time. The Cingular representative I called asked me to dial *18. The phone can make and receive calls, but I still get that same message from Western Wireless (Cellular One West). > Huh? The 6340i has an antenna adapter on the back. How much easier can > the T62U be than just plugging an external antenna cable into the Nokia > connector? They even make a combination antenna/power (lighter plug) > coiled cable for the 5xxx/6xxx phones. I have the full car kit which > also uses the rear antenna connector--it connects when you seat the > phone in the holder. The Nokia is already easier to find equipment for, but I have acquired equipment for the T62u (free of charge from a friend who no longer travels, but still used his T62u). The T62u only cost me $17.00 on ebay. >>Is there any easy way for me to take the SIM out of the 6340i and put it >>into the T62u so I could immediately use it? I was under the impression [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > intervention but I believe you'd have to go thru CS to change the ESN > for TDMA/AMPS. That makes sense to what I understand. My phone number is based in Orlando, FL, a GSM market, so maybe the rep didn't realize how that might affect me on a TDMA/AMPS systems with no access to GSM. > Again, I don't think you're getting enough benefit swapping these two > phones to justify the hassle. Some people are doing that to switch to a > full-bells-and-whistles feature-loaded GSM-only phone when TDMA/AMPS > isn't needed. According to Cingular, North Dakota and Wyoming should be mostly covered (where I travel) by the end of 2003. Western Wireless, who is building the GSM Network for roaming purposes has not commented on the progress. My T62u does pick up a GSM signal a couple times a day, but soon gives that up for a weaker TDMA signal. http://onlinestore.cingular.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/html/Maps/Central_Texa s/nation_GSM_map_6_30_03.htm Cingular GSM Nation map. AD > That makes sense to what I understand. My phone number is based in > Orlando, FL, a GSM market, so maybe the rep didn't realize how that > might affect me on a TDMA/AMPS systems with no access to GSM. That puts another twist to my concern about upgrading with Cingular as I've posted elsewhere. Does that mean that if I have a Nokia 6340i with GSM and TDMA (purchased in the Dallas market), it may not work in some areas that are TDMA only? >> That makes sense to what I understand. My phone number is based in >> Orlando, FL, a GSM market, so maybe the rep didn't realize how that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > with GSM and TDMA (purchased in the Dallas market), it may not work > in some areas that are TDMA only? No, it works in areas with TDMA only. I was hoping that I could switch the SIM and have all funcionality. However, TDMA requires the ESN of the phone for authentication, so I would have to call to Cingular and switch everytime for TDMA/AMPS use. I can switch put my SIM into any GSM phone and use it. I get better coverage roaming here than the actual customers of the local company get. It's kind of nice. AD > No, it works in areas with TDMA only. I was hoping that I could switch > the SIM and have all funcionality. However, TDMA requires the ESN of > the phone for authentication, so I would have to call to Cingular and > switch everytime for TDMA/AMPS use. So if you travled back and forth from a GSM are into a TDMA area you had to call Cingular to authenticate your phone each time you changed areas? That could mean several calls a day to CS! Since I live just inside a GSM area and would drive outside that area into a TDMA area, I would be calling them at least five or six times a day. That's absurd! >>> That makes sense to what I understand. My phone number is based in >>> Orlando, FL, a GSM market, so maybe the rep didn't realize how that [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > AD No. You can travel from a GSM area to a TDMA area. I'm saying that I can't use the 6340i with TDMA, and swap the SIM to use the T62u for TDMA. I can use the T62u for GSM however. Use this chart for reference. My SIM was activated in the Nokia 6340i. TDMA needs to know the ESN of the phone. TDMA is not interested in the information on the SIM. GSM does not need to know the ESN of the phone. GSM is interested in the information on the SIM. Nokia 6340i SE T62u GAIT Phone 1 GAIT Phone 2 GSM 1900 GSM 1900 GSM 850 GSM 850 TDMA 1900 Not Available TDMA 800 Not Available AMPS 800 Not Available The GAIT phones will work on GSM, TDMA, or AMPS without changes on your part. I would only have to call Cingular because I would want to be swiching *phones* running on TDMA on a regular basis. I hope this clears the confusion. AD > The GAIT phones will work on GSM, TDMA, or AMPS without changes on your > part. I would only have to call Cingular because I would want to be > swiching *phones* running on TDMA on a regular basis. Oh...ok, that clears that up. You were SWITCHING PHONES. How do you get the 6340i to display a GSM icon? I can't tell whether I'm on an analog network, TDMA or GSM!! > How do you get the 6340i to display a GSM icon? I can't tell whether I'm on > an analog network, TDMA or GSM!! Why do you need to know which network you're using? Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273 "All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of what we know." -- Richard Wilbur John C posted this on this thread. AD > How do you get the 6340i to display a GSM icon? I can't tell whether I'm on > an analog network, TDMA or GSM!! The Nokia 6340i "Field Test" screens 01-01 through 01-13 give you some hints on GSM operation. The 21-01 through 21-09 will be familiar if you've used a Nokia TDMA phone before. 21-01 will show what band you are on, and a channel number. The 01-01 shows a GSM channel number (wider channels) that I don't yet know enough to interpret. I really am starting to believe that your account's ESN field is either blank or incorrect. If you see this in time, call Cingular before the 1800 CDT Saturday closing. Or perhaps after-hours support at 866-802-2922. Since you're in TDMA territory, ESN is everything. Pick one phone of the two, and stay with it. In GSM territory, you can readily switch SIMs. John C. > The Nokia 6340i "Field Test" screens and where does one find them? >>The Nokia 6340i "Field Test" screens > > and where does one find them? Go to Menu, then Field Test (it's the last one). Then you can input the number of the test screen you want. You can make and receive calls while in this mode (at least I have been able to). When you want to cancel out of this mode, go backto Field Test in the menu, and enter "0000". I do not know how to interpret the results displayed on the screen. AD > > The Nokia 6340i "Field Test" screens > > and where does one find them? Enter *3001#12345#, then turn the 6340i off. When it is turned on again, the Field Test screens will be on. The Menu will also have a Field Test item--if cleared (blanked), the screens will be off and the Menu item will remain. Repeat *3001#12345# and turn off and on to remove the Field Test menu. John C. >How do you get the 6340i to display a GSM icon? I can't tell whether I'm on >an analog network, TDMA or GSM!! I don't think that there is anything on the display. -- John S. e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net >>How do you get the 6340i to display a GSM icon? I can't tell whether I'm on >>an analog network, TDMA or GSM!! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > John S. > e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net Easier -- Select 'Menu->Messages' scroll to 'Service Command Editor' if it is greyed out, you are not in GSM mode, if it is not greyed out, you are in GSM. During a call, if softkey (screen lower-right) says Hold, you are in GSM; if it says Mute, you are not in GSM. |
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