Add "smartphone" wireless to Blackjack?

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Evan Platt - 29 May 2008 22:18 GMT

So AT&T considers the Blackjack II a PDA - because it has a keypad.
Even though everyone else, including Samsung and Microsoft consider it
a smartphone.

My only use for the wireless will be for Telenav. So $30 a month is
obscene. Even the $19 or whatever for the smartphone data is
expensive.

So can I activate a smartphone, add the data plan, then pop my sim
back into my blackjack and keep the smartphone data plan?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

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Todd Allcock - 30 May 2008 05:17 GMT

> So AT&T considers the Blackjack II a PDA - because it has a keypad.
> Even though everyone else, including Samsung and Microsoft consider it
> a smartphone.

To be fair to AT&T, Microsoft divides the line for WinMobile devices at
touchscreens- a touchscreen makes it a Pocket PC-based phone, no
touchscreen makes it a smartphone. (Microsoft doesn't define a "PDA.")
Samsung follows MS' distinction because it's a WinMo-based product.

AT&T's definitions seem no more or less arbitrary than Microsoft's.

> My only use for the wireless will be for Telenav. So $30 a month is
> obscene. Even the $19 or whatever for the smartphone data is
> expensive.

Do they still have a smartphone plan for "new" customers? (I realize
grandfathered "Smartphone Connect" customers still have it.) I think
they've simplified it down to $15 "MEdiaNet" for dumbphones and $30 data
for all smartphones, but I certainly could be wrong.

> So can I activate a smartphone, add the data plan, then pop my sim
> back into my blackjack and keep the smartphone data plan?

The answer is basically the same as the answer to "can I commit murder?"
Sure- until they catch you!" ;-)

Seriously, many have done it, and continue to get away with it as long as
they don't go crazy with data usage. It sounds like you won't use much, if
navigation is your primary use.

> Any other suggestions?

Google Maps and Windows Live Search run great on my PPC phone and $6 T-
Mobile data plan. I suspect you could probably use the $15 MEdiaNet plan
by activating a "dumbphone" first then swapping SIMs.

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Mike S. - 30 May 2008 13:01 GMT

>AT&T's definitions seem no more or less arbitrary than Microsoft's.

But they often don't make sense.

Look, for instance at the Nokia E series.

The E51 (not sold by AT&T but used by many on its network) is a Symbian OS
Smartphone with full web browser, PDA features, etc ... but due to lack of
QWERTY keyboard is considered a dumbphone (see the threads on the AT&T
Customer Support Forums on this). Thus using a $15 Media Net add-on would
not make waves.

Virtually the same phone as the E50/E51, but with a QWERTY keyboard added,
are the recently discontinued E61/E61i/E62 series. Although these have
no design features that would make them consume any more bandwidth than an
E50/E51, these are classified as PDA's and technically require the
twice-as-expensive PDA plan.

As an E51 owner who is looking to upgrade to the upcoming E71 (which is
almost _literally_ an E51 with a QWERTY keypad and sideways display) I'm
now having seocnd thoughts because of this very nonsensical issue.

The only bright light here is the observation that AT&T may not "know"
what phone you're using unless they audit you because of heavy data use.
For me, the E51 is off the map, and AT&T's online account management
always says "unknown". Even if I reset it manually to some similar listed
model, the next month it's back to "Unknown".

This might save me with the E71; unless, of course, as is rumored, they
pick up the E71 as replacement to the E62, and then it becomes a known and
detectable piece of hardware.

>Seriously, many have done it, and continue to get away with it as long as
>they don't go crazy with data usage. It sounds like you won't use much, if
>navigation is your primary use.

If one uses very little data, perhaps pay-per-use ($0.01/kb) makes more
sense. At my levle of useage, if I were hit with a doubling of the monthly
data plan cost, that's what I'd personally do.

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Todd Allcock - 30 May 2008 15:02 GMT

> >AT&T's definitions seem no more or less arbitrary than Microsoft's.
>
> But they often don't make sense.

I agree completely- my point was only that AT&T has no obligation to accept
anyone else's arbitrary definition! ;-)

> Look, for instance at the Nokia E series.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Customer Support Forums on this). Thus using a $15 Media Net add-on would
> not make waves.

True- personally I think the idea of separate plans for smart/dumb phones
makes little sense, since both are "unlimited" plans. Charging the
smartphone owners twice as much because their phones "usually" consume more
data is akin to charging fat people double at a buffet restaurant because
their likely to eat more.

If AT&T wants to base the price on usage, then simply cap the cheaper plan-
i.e. "unlimited" for $30, and, say, 1GB (probably more than enough for a
dumbphone) for $15 rather than arbitrary value judgements on how much data
a device typically uses.

> Virtually the same phone as the E50/E51, but with a QWERTY keyboard added,
> are the recently discontinued E61/E61i/E62 series. Although these have
> no design features that would make them consume any more bandwidth than an
> E50/E51, these are classified as PDA's and technically require the
> twice-as-expensive PDA plan.

Yes. Very silly.

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Jud Hardcastle - 30 May 2008 15:34 GMT

> and AT&T's online account management
> always says "unknown". Even if I reset it manually to some similar listed
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> pick up the E71 as replacement to the E62, and then it becomes a known and
> detectable piece of hardware.

I leave my sim out of my Nokia 6340i for months on end--in an
unsupported phone--and I've never had it change the phone model
on the account.

I searched using Google and can't find any documentation that
GSM even supports a remote model request. Although they really don't
need it to see a mismatch between the IMEI received and the one on
record--for that matter they could look up the IMEI in the global GSM
IMEI DB and get the model that way. If they can't find it there then
"unknown" might result.

Another possiblity is that they're getting an error code of some kind
when the IRDB database is downloaded to the phone. Repeated failures
might result in flagging the account "unknown" (and updates suspended).
---
Jud
Dallas TX USA

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Mike S. - 30 May 2008 15:54 GMT

>> and AT&T's online account management
>> always says "unknown". Even if I reset it manually to some similar listed
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>IMEI DB and get the model that way. If they can't find it there then
>"unknown" might result.

Yes. My assumption is that this facility compares the IMEI with a database
and extracts the make/model from that. I'm puzzled by the apparent limit
of that database only to supported/sold models.

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Jeffrey Kaplan - 30 May 2008 21:57 GMT

Previously on alt.cellular.cingular, Mike S. said:

> This might save me with the E71; unless, of course, as is rumored, they
> pick up the E71 as replacement to the E62, and then it becomes a known and
> detectable piece of hardware.

I have a Treo 680, which is carried by AT&T. I happened to have
purchased mine directly from Palm as an unlocked device. People at
AT&T know I have a Treo, and I have in the past "corrected" "My
Account" on the AT&T web site to show that I have a Treo.

I had no problem adding the MEdia Net Unlimited plan rather than the
more expensive PDA plan. And my account on the site again shows an
"unknown" phone.

> If one uses very little data, perhaps pay-per-use ($0.01/kb) makes more
> sense. At my levle of useage, if I were hit with a doubling of the monthly
> data plan cost, that's what I'd personally do.

Not that it matters to you, but I did originally go with pay-per-use
data and kept an eye on it. When my usage exceeded $20 two months in a
row, I got the actual data plan.

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