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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Cingular / January 2004

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Cingular Hurting Bad on Portability

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Trimodeman - 26 Nov 2003 00:01 GMT
I went by both a Cingular location and a Verizon one today here in NC.  The
Cingular location was deserted while the Verizon one was booming. I will bet
it is all those disgruntled Cingular customers porting their numbers to
Verizon.  Face it, at least in the Carolinas, Cingular's coverage area is
very limited compared to Verizon and Alltel (Cingular's is mostly in big
cities and along major highways- get several miles away from a highway in
the country and you might as well be carrying a brick- Verizon and Alltel
are much better), customers complain repeatedly of big holes even in
Cingular's markets, dropped calls, horrible customer service, etc.  If you
are in the Carolinas, either go with VZW or Alltel, both great choices.
Stay away from Cingular.
N9WOS - 26 Nov 2003 02:12 GMT
> I went by both a Cingular location and a Verizon one today here in NC.  The
> Cingular location was deserted while the Verizon one was booming. I will bet
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> are in the Carolinas, either go with VZW or Alltel, both great choices.
> Stay away from Cingular.

I have to agree, it is a good idea to stay away from a carrier that
only has 1.9Ghz coverage in your area.

Same reason I stay away from ATT in my area.
They only have PCS coverage

Same reason someone should stay away from cingular
in California. They only have PCS coverage.

Same reason someone should stay away from verizon
in Florida. They only have PCS  coverage.

Same reason why anyone should stay away from sprint PCS.

Now that I think about it, I wonder how verizon is fairing in Florida.
I don't think they will be doing a brisk business around there. :-P
Anyone that does switch to verizon down there will probably be
real pissed off when they find what they got themselves into.
Oww......well.... I guess I will see some more "Verizon sucks"
websites coming in the near future. :-)
Thomas M. Goethe - 26 Nov 2003 02:43 GMT
   VZW is not bad in Tampa. Not quite as good as Alltel in my immediate
neighborhood (I have both), but I have had few problems with it. Same phone
on both, a T720. We do have some Alltel problems during rush hour when we
can't get through.

   Didn't make it into a VZW store, but the Nextel guy at Office Despot was
slow and the Alltel stores were pretty normal.

Signature

Thomas M. Goethe

> > I went by both a Cingular location and a Verizon one today here in NC.
> The
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Oww......well.... I guess I will see some more "Verizon sucks"
> websites coming in the near future. :-)
Aboutdakota - 26 Nov 2003 04:52 GMT
>>I went by both a Cingular location and a Verizon one today here in NC.
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> Oww......well.... I guess I will see some more "Verizon sucks"
> websites coming in the near future. :-)

I do have to agree with you about Verizon in Florida.  I chose Cingular
because Verizon Wireless, even as a cellular-B carrier in the Dakotas,
is terrible there.  My friend who was moving to West Virginia was not
interested in Verizon, but I persuaded her to take it, since her area of
West Virginia was covered with America's Choice (notice I say WAS).

Cingular's Preferred Nation has spotty coverage in WV, and the only
other carrier that she had access to was a Cellular One carrier, and we
know about Cellular One, don't we?  So, after choosing Verizon, coverage
in Florida was mediocre.  Signal wasn't that great, there were many dead
zones, and calls were dropped frequently.

My Cingular phone worked flawlessly.  Only on a few occasions did I
experience any problems.  One annoying thing is when I would dial *89 to
check my voicemail and get a message from AT&T Wireless.  I'd rather
roam onto AT&T when my Cingular signal becomes unusable than have no
service, so that's not a valid gripe.

When in certain areas around the Walt Disney World Resort, I would have
limited service, and if I had a call in that area, it might drop.  Of
course bing inside a concrete tunnel doesn't help -- most outside area
was wonderful for service.

However, after choosing Verizon Wireless, she became utterly
disappointed.  To read more about Verizon's America's Choice digital
coverage loss, follow this link:
http://cell.uoregon.edu/loss_questionmark/ .

Anyhow, this change in coverage took effect while she was in West
Virginia, still under contract (with 9 months on a 12 month contract
left).  She wrote a letter to VZW stating that she had moved back to
West Virginia, and to have all billing information changed.

She noted in the letter that because VZW was not a local carrier, she
could not have her number changed to a local one.  A reply from VZW
noted that her number could not be changed, and they thanked her again
for choosing Verizon Wireless.

Then came Verizon's America's Choice coverage loss in WV.  Because WV
only requires one party consent to record telephone calls, and she had a
reply from that letter to Verizon to prove that VZW was aware of her
change in residence, she was covered without any doubts.

She called and asked to be let out of her contract because free roam
coverage was dropped without prior notice to her.  When she was denied,
she took a recoding of that phone call, a copy of the letter to VZW, a
copy of the reply, and a copy of her contract and filed a compalint with
the WV Attorney's General Office, with the complaint that Verizon
Wireless was not only knowingly providing unlicensed service to a WV
resident, but was also not living up to contract terms that were
previously agreed upon.

She then sent all of the above material, along with a copy of the
complaint with the State of WV to VZW, via certified mail.  VZW was more
than happy to let her out of the contract with no ETF, credit all
roaming charges received in WV, and even give her the portion last month
free as "courtesy credit".

America's Largest and Most Reliable Wireless Network, eh?  A carrier's
real performance is actually based upon your prior expectations of the
carrier.  I have had great luck with Cingular.  I have had terrible luck
with Verizon (if you think fringe areas are bad, try living on the
Canadian border west of the great lakes).  Of course, I had a Cellular
One company prior, so my expectations were not high.  I had the
expecations of "America's Largest and Most Reliable Wireless Netork" to
be as crappy as they are in the upper Midwest.

AD
Aaron Worley - 27 Nov 2003 05:40 GMT
>n in Floridahttp://webx25.nwa.com/cgi-bin/pager.pro.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>roaming charges received in WV, and even give her the portion last month
>free as "courtesy credit".

  WOOHOO! Without a great deal of text or negativity, I just want to applaud
that last entry's content. Verizon lied to me, tried to withhold money that was
mine, for calls I never made. I was with them once, got burned and went back
again, thinking, "Well, maybe things have changed..." I signed back up with
them, having been told that I would not be roaming in a particular area on my
plan. Took MY OLD VZ PHONE, which they reactivated, down to the area in
question and that sob started roaming almost immediately. I went back to the
store, remembering that I had 24 hrs or something like that to cancel my
contract with no penalty, and they cancelled me alright...and STUCK ME WITH A
$35.00 ACTIVATION FEE, which I received in the mail. I went through all the
usual "Verizon actions": letters, phone calls etc, until 3 months later they
finally erased the charge from my "account". I will NEVER do business with that
bunch of lying sob's again, period. I love Cingular...they're not perfect, but
so far, they're a damn sight better than VZ. They haven't lied to me or tried
to mislead me at all, and in this morally barren land, that's not doing too
bad.

Aaron Worley
Trimodeman - 27 Nov 2003 15:55 GMT
I understand  Verizon quality is not good in FLA due to much of it there
being 1900 MHz, like Sprint.  Pick a carrier with 800MHz there and you will
probably fare better.  Is Alltel an 800MHz provider there? If so you might
look into them as they are a very good operator.
> >n in Floridahttp://webx25.nwa.com/cgi-bin/pager.pro.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> Aaron Worley
N9WOS - 27 Nov 2003 16:00 GMT
> I understand  Verizon quality is not good in FLA due to much of it there
> being 1900 MHz, like Sprint.  Pick a carrier with 800MHz there and you will
> probably fare better.  Is Alltel an 800MHz provider there? If so you might
> look into them as they are a very good operator.

Alltel provides 800Mhz service on the west side of Florida.
That's why people visiting Florida think that Verizon has good coverage
there.
They are roaming on Alltel.

But the people that live there have to live with verizon's 1.9Ghz coverage.
They can't roam on Alltel.
Thomas M. Goethe - 27 Nov 2003 18:05 GMT
> > I understand  Verizon quality is not good in FLA due to much of it there
> > being 1900 MHz, like Sprint.  Pick a carrier with 800MHz there and you
> will
> > probably fare better.  Is Alltel an 800MHz provider there? If so you might
> > look into them as they are a very good operator.

   I've got an Alltel and a VZW number in the Tampa area. Both are
generally good, but the VZW one has a weak signal at my home. These are both
T720 phones, so, in theory at least, the phone is not the variable. Alltel
is often a problem making a call during the afternoon drive time. There are
fairly frequent no lines available messages, especially mobile to mobile to
my wife. At the CSR's suggestion, I updated her PRL and she said it got
worse, so they may have blanked out a VZW or Sprint tower or two that she
was hitting driving from St. Pete to east of Tampa. Her phone is an Alltel
StarTac 7868.

   VZW seems to do better during drive time.

Signature

Thomas M. Goethe

XFF - 01 Dec 2003 08:31 GMT
> Alltel provides 800Mhz service on the west side of Florida.
> That's why people visiting Florida think that Verizon has good coverage
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> But the people that live there have to live with verizon's 1.9Ghz coverage.
> They can't roam on Alltel.

Why not?  Are you suggesting that FL customers receive a different PRL
than customers in other states?  I highly doubt that.
N9WOS - 01 Dec 2003 14:06 GMT
> > Alltel provides 800Mhz service on the west side of Florida.
> > That's why people visiting Florida think that Verizon has good coverage
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Why not?  Are you suggesting that FL customers receive a different PRL
> than customers in other states?  I highly doubt that.

Normally local plans will be more restrictive.
Everyone doesn't have America's choice.
But I looked at the verizon web page and I see
that they seem to allow you to use Alltel on
the local plan.
I guess they do it's because of the pathetic
verizon coverage in Florida.

All right............ Your win on that one........:-P
Roy - 01 Dec 2003 15:09 GMT
On 12/1/03 9:06 AM, in article
SVHyb.368402$0v4.19349868@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, "N9WOS"
<n9wos@nobug.worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>>> Alltel provides 800Mhz service on the west side of Florida.
>>> That's why people visiting Florida think that Verizon has good coverage
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> All right............ Your win on that one........:-P

I am in Central Florida, and I got Altel when I recently downloaded the
current PRL...before that it was not in my PRL so the addition is rather
recent.
Roy - 01 Dec 2003 15:14 GMT
On 12/1/03 10:09 AM, in article BBF0C3EF.29204%zeno1234@mindspring.com,

> On 12/1/03 9:06 AM, in article
> SVHyb.368402$0v4.19349868@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, "N9WOS"
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> current PRL...before that it was not in my PRL so the addition is rather
> recent.

Oops, I was in my last posting thinking of the recent addition of SPCS to my
PRL, not Altell. I have the additional digital roaming capability in
Orlando, and Altel is not in Orlando.
Matt J. Britt - 01 Dec 2003 19:05 GMT
I live on the West Coast of FLA and use Verizon AC. I have no problems with
my coverage... Rarely do I "Extended Network" or lose 1x signal...

Just my 2 cents..

Matt

> On 12/1/03 10:09 AM, in article BBF0C3EF.29204%zeno1234@mindspring.com,
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> PRL, not Altell. I have the additional digital roaming capability in
> Orlando, and Altel is not in Orlando.
Matapalo - 02 Dec 2003 13:04 GMT
FACTS ABOUT VERIZON:

VERIZON has excellent coverage on the West Coast of Florida in the old
GTE Mobilenet coverage area, however, where they acquired PrimeCo
networks the coverage SUCKS!

Years ago I lived in Tampa where the coverage was excellent.  I even
worked for GTE Mobilenet when they launched their vaunted CDMA
network.

Then I moved to Utah and traveled the country and Verizon worked
great.  However, when I moved to Miami, I could not place a call from
my house and I live 1 block off U.S. 1 in a HEAVILY populated part of
Miami-Dade County!

When I called Verizon they gave me a trouble ticket and some arrogant
S.O.B. from Verizon's technical department called me from the Tampa
office and explained they don't guarantee service everywhere and that
the contract I signed in Utah was in full force and effect in Florida,
but they "didn't guarantee the service would work in Miami when I
signed it, only in Utah."

Then he gave me a lot of double-talk about how his personal phone will
let him still make calls when there is no signal bar present.  He
acted as if I was imagining the whole thing and I am the only one with
the problem.  But he did slip by saying Miami was a Primeco
acquisition for Verizon and that network isn't as reliable as the GTE
Mobilenet CDMA network.

Anyways . . .

What kind of crap is that?  The contract is valid and enforceable in
Florida but service is not?

So I am stuck with a $170 early termination for two lines.  

It's not like I am living in the middle of Iowa.  I am in MIAMI - a
major U.S. city and the service simply doesn't work on my street and I
am 1 block off a major artery.

Verizon's response and treatment of a ten year customer was and is
UNCONSCIONABLE!  I will most likely go to small claims court and try
to get a judgment equal to the amount of the early termination fees.
At that time I will pay for the balance of my airtime that I owe on my
last bill!

AT&T's GSM network leaves a lot to be desired too, but time should
ameliorate that problem.  And AT&T treats their customers just as
poorly.

I bought a Sony Ericsson t68 for $249 when they first came out - which
is a legendary problem phone.  Sony replaced the phone three times and
AT&T stopped selling them.  Their solution?  "Too bad! Extend your
contract and we'll give you another phone for $50."

Yeah, right.  AT&T knowlingly and willingly sells defective phones and
their solution is to turn you over to the phone manufacturer who in
turn keeps replacing the defective phone with a new defective phone.

When you go back to AT&T they say, "Too bad.  Extend your contract."

Want to change your rate plan with AT&T?  You lose all the promotion
(nights & weekends) benefits unless you EXTEND YOUR CONTRACT again.

I tell you what, when my contract with AT&T expires I am going to
Cingular and go for ROLLOVER.

I will NEVER, EVER buy a phone with a contract again.  Why?  Because
they screw you coming and going.  Do the math.  You save nothing by
getting the phone at a bargain rate.

The best bet is to go to ebay and buy an UNLOCKED phone that will work
on TMOBILE, AT&T and CINGULAR for the discounted retail price and then
you can change carriers whenever you want.

Is it true Cingular doesn't require a contract?  If so, SIGN ME UP!

And those ROLLOVER minutes from CINGULAR are sounding better by the
minute.

On a rate plan with Verizon and AT&T you lose EVERY WAY.  Didn't use
your minutes?  You're not getting what you paid for.  Used more than
your rate plan allowance?  You're paying an EXORBITANT premium for
going over your plan.

When a cellular company gets smart and starts offering flat rate plans
for power users whose usage fluctuates, and NO CONTRACTS, expect a
following of customers and minimum churn.

In my experience, cell customers will tolerate reception and coverage
inadequacies, however, they will not tolerate POOR customer service
and being treated with callous indifference!

I am a future CINGULAR customer!

Also, maybe one of the geniuses in the marketing department will
figure out the best way to get customers in the wake of Number
Portability will be to offer to PAY FOR YOUR EARLY TERMINATION fees if
you switch to their carrier.

And you can do it without paying $1 out of pocket - simply apply a
credit equal to the termination fee to the new service bill.  Of
course the customer has ALL the responsibility for providing proof of
the termination fee within X number of weeks/months.

I read it costs $340 to get a new cell service subscriber but a LOT
LESS to keep the customers you have, therefore, marketing money is
being spent on retuention or minimizing churn.

The game has changed and all the major carriers are in collusion on
pricing and policies.  And all this is done to minimize churn.

Sooner or later one of the major carriers is going to get weak and
they are either going to be acquired by one of the other majors, or
they will make a calculated gamble to grab market share using a
product mix that consists of novel rate plans and policies that will
engender loyalty.

Take the lid off Cingular!  Sell unlocked phones!  Be honest with your
customers and they will reward you with loyalty.  You're heading in
the right direction with ROLLOVER and NO CONTRACTS.  Go the remaining
mile and break away from the dirty tricks of AT&T and Verizon.

What about rate plans that are fair and easy and provide discounts
based on volume just like any other normal business?  This concept
can't be difficult - it's an age-old marketing standard and people
have come to expect it over the years.

Here, you plug in the numbers - change them as you wish but you get
the idea:

< 200 minutes = $0.30/minute
200 - 500 minutes = $0.27
500 - 1000 minutes = $0.25
1000 - 1500 minutes = $0.20
> 1500 minutes = $0.15

> I live on the West Coast of FLA and use Verizon AC. I have no problems with
> my coverage... Rarely do I "Extended Network" or lose 1x signal...
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> > PRL, not Altell. I have the additional digital roaming capability in
> > Orlando, and Altel is not in Orlando.
sarah - 02 Dec 2003 13:55 GMT
> FACTS ABOUT VERIZON:
>
> VERIZON has excellent coverage on the West Coast of Florida in the old
> GTE Mobilenet coverage area, however, where they acquired PrimeCo
> networks the coverage SUCKS!

Correcting your "facts":

Verizon does not operate the old GTE Mobilnet network in the Tampa area.
That network was taken over by Alltel.  The area of Florida Verizon
currently serves with its former PrimeCo network largely overlaps Alltel's
coverage area.  Within Florida, Verizon provides essentially the same
geographical coverage with either the Local or AC plan, and it is very
complete.  They accomplish this via their free roaming agreements with
other CDMA carriers in the area.  If you have a proper PRL and are in an
area where the ex-PrimeCo network is unavailable, you will still obtain
plan service (from Alltel, Sprint, U.S. Cellular, even ATT AMPS).  I've
yet to find a dead or pay-roaming spot.  If there are some, it means that
NO CDMA or AMPS provider is available in that area.
Aboutdakota - 03 Dec 2003 02:22 GMT
>>FACTS ABOUT VERIZON:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> yet to find a dead or pay-roaming spot.  If there are some, it means that
> NO CDMA or AMPS provider is available in that area.

When you find a pay-roaming spot in Florida, who operates the nework?
Since no CDMA or AMPS provider is available in that area, I would have
to assume you were *allowed* to roam on Cingular or T-Mobile (although
technology prevents that from happening, and Cingular is also an AMPS
carrier in Florida, so it wouldn't be available).

There are plenty of pay-roaming areas in Florida.  In fact, there are
plenty of pay-roaming areas in Orlando (ask anyone who works for Disney
and has Verizon about the roaming charges in Florida, and they will tell
you).

==AD
susan - 03 Dec 2003 05:12 GMT
When I was in Orlando this summer I only hit a roaming area once. That was a
literal one foot square area in Downtown Disney. What areas of Orlando are
roam? Is it getting worse?
Thanks!
Susan
*********************************************
The Sonny & Cher Ultimate Collection on DVD
http://www.sonnyandcher.com
*********************************************
> There are plenty of pay-roaming areas in Florida.  In fact, there are
> plenty of pay-roaming areas in Orlando (ask anyone who works for Disney
> and has Verizon about the roaming charges in Florida, and they will tell
> you).
>
> ==AD
Matapalo - 03 Dec 2003 15:30 GMT
Sarah:

GTE is now ALLTEL and not Verizon?  Try this, type http://www.gte.com
in your browser and see what happens - you will be redirected to
VERIZON.COM.

And maybe you can explain why GTE Mobilenet's major office building in
Tampa, FL (right off Westshore and I-275) now has a Verizon sign on
the building?

And perhaps you can explain why all former GTE MOBILENET'S agents and
stores in the Tampa Bay area are now VERIZON agents and stores?

Perhaps you can explain why all my friends in Santa Cruz, CA who were
once GTE MOBILENET customers and did not change their carrier are now
VERIZON customers and not ALLTEL?

Jesus, talk about missing it.

You're splitting hairs here.  Pure semantics.  I live in MIAMI one
block from U.S. 1 surrounded by MILLIONS of homes in a densely
populated part of the city and I don't have a VERIZON signal here and
I tried it on THREE SEPARATE phones.

Change your maxipad and wait it out babe, it only lasts a week.

> > FACTS ABOUT VERIZON:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> yet to find a dead or pay-roaming spot.  If there are some, it means that
> NO CDMA or AMPS provider is available in that area.
sarah - 03 Dec 2003 16:59 GMT
> GTE is now ALLTEL and not Verizon?  Try this, type http://www.gte.com
> in your browser and see what happens - you will be redirected to
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> once GTE MOBILENET customers and did not change their carrier are now
> VERIZON customers and not ALLTEL?

I'll try to be very clear for you:

Once upon a time, a company named GTE owned and operated an
800 Mhz CDMA system in Florida (called Mobilnet).  Also, a company named
Bell Atlantic partly owned and operated a 1900 Mhz CDMA system in Florida
(called PrimeCo).  Bell Atlantic and GTE fell in love and decided to get
married.  Their married name is Verizon.  Before the marriage, the FCC
told the young couple they could not own and operate two separate cellular
systems in any given market area if they wanted to marry.  They needed to
divest of one of them.  They talked it over and decided to sell the 800
Mhz CDMA Florida network to Alltel (who promptly renamed it ... Alltel).
They kept their PrimeCo network interest (and named it ... Verizon
Wireless). The former Mobilnet customers became Alltel customers.  The
former PrimeCo customers became Verizon Wireless customers.

The above happened only in areas where the merging companies owned two
separate cellular systems.  In areas where that was not the case,  they
simply renamed the existing system Verizon Wireless (regardless of whether
it had formerly been Mobilnet or PrimeCo).  Perhaps your California
friends fell into this second category.

Also, notice I said they sold the NETWORK, not the BUILDINGS.  That's why
you see a Verizon sign where a Mobilnet sign once was in Tampa.

As for the employees and stores in the Tampa area, you must distinguish
between the former GTE Mobilnet employees/stores, the former GTE PhoneMart
employees/stores, and the former PrimeCo employees/stores.  Here it gets
complicated, but suffice it to say that MOST former MobilNet employees are
now Alltel employees.  MOST former PhoneMart and PrimeCo employees are now
Verizon employees.  The individual stores were divvied up in a similar
fashion.

If you still feel that I am "missing it", you're certainly welcome to your
opinion; however, I suspect that I was much closer to these events than
were you.
Shizz In It - 03 Dec 2003 20:42 GMT
Partially true but obscured by raging hormonal imbalances and you do exhibit
a likeable and common tendency towards grotesque simplifications, a common
affliction of women.

Why did my GTE MOBILENET bill show up at my door one day in a VERIZON
envelope with instructions to make payment to VERIZON for my GTE Mobilenet
account?  Huh???

> > GTE is now ALLTEL and not Verizon?  Try this, type http://www.gte.com
> > in your browser and see what happens - you will be redirected to
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> opinion; however, I suspect that I was much closer to these events than
> were you.
Justin - 03 Dec 2003 20:47 GMT
Shizz In It wrote on [Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:42:22 -0500]:
> Partially true but obscured by raging hormonal imbalances and you do exhibit
> a likeable and common tendency towards grotesque simplifications, a common
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> envelope with instructions to make payment to VERIZON for my GTE Mobilenet
> account?  Huh???

You are indeed a troll.

And a pretty piss poor effort at one, too
Steven J Sobol - 03 Dec 2003 21:21 GMT
In alt.cellular.verizon Shizz In It <no_spam@int-spam-mierda.com> wrote:
> Partially true but obscured by raging hormonal imbalances and you do exhibit
> a likeable and common tendency towards grotesque simplifications, a common
> affliction of women.

Hm, and when presented with facts you turn around and act like an a.shole
because you don't like being wrong. A common affliction of many men (and lots
of women too).

Sorry about your luck...

Signature

JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
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Steve Sobol, Proprietor
888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * sjsobol@JustThe.net

Thomas M. Goethe - 04 Dec 2003 01:17 GMT
   Because some of the GTE Mobilnet in some areas went to VZW. In other
areas, it had to be divested, thanks to our government and was sold to
Alltel. You live in an area where it went to VZW Wireless. I live in an area
where it went to Alltel. That included most, if not all, of the GTE Mobilnet
holdings in FL.

   Grow up and don't be rude.

   Adios.

> Partially true but obscured by raging hormonal imbalances and you do exhibit
> a likeable and common tendency towards grotesque simplifications, a common
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> > opinion; however, I suspect that I was much closer to these events than
> > were you.
Thomas M. Goethe - 03 Dec 2003 20:44 GMT
Sarah,

   You are on the money, but Alltel did get a lot of the buildings, or at
least the rented space, in the Tampa area. They just changed to signs.

Signature

Thomas M. Goethe

> > GTE is now ALLTEL and not Verizon?  Try this, type http://www.gte.com
> > in your browser and see what happens - you will be redirected to
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> opinion; however, I suspect that I was much closer to these events than
> were you.
Aboutdakota - 03 Dec 2003 21:57 GMT
>>GTE is now ALLTEL and not Verizon?  Try this, type http://www.gte.com
>>in your browser and see what happens - you will be redirected to
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> opinion; however, I suspect that I was much closer to these events than
> were you.

This is indeed correct.  This was in the day when there was still a
spectrum cap, and since PrimeCo had a larger area with a 1900 license,
it made sense to divest the GTE Mobilnet that had a limited 850 license,
therefore keeping the possibility to cover a much larger area with PCS
coverage.

==AD
Mike - 03 Dec 2003 22:10 GMT
>  Before the marriage, the FCC
>told the young couple they could not own and operate two separate cellular
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Wireless). The former Mobilnet customers became Alltel customers.  The
>former PrimeCo customers became Verizon Wireless customers.

As we've pointed out here (folks like Steve Sobol and myself) -
similar happened here in NE Ohio.  The ex-GTE Mobilenet system here in
the Cleveland/Akron market was divested to Alltel (800 MHz CDMA/AMPS).
The other CDMA/AMPS service became VZW.  I believe that was a former
AirTouch system.

>If you still feel that I am "missing it", you're certainly welcome to your
>opinion; however, I suspect that I was much closer to these events than
>were you.

Well, I'm surprised you answered him so calmly, given his neanderthal
insult at the end of his message.

Mike
Thomas M. Goethe - 03 Dec 2003 20:42 GMT
   You need to grow up and be a bit more polite. When GTE and Bell Atlantic
merged, they had to divest most of GTE Wireless in Florida. Alltel bought
it. All of the GTE Wireless stores then in the Tampa Bay area changed signs
and became Alltel.

Signature

Thomas M. Goethe

> Sarah:
>
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> > yet to find a dead or pay-roaming spot.  If there are some, it means that
> > NO CDMA or AMPS provider is available in that area.
alahater - 01 Jan 2004 18:42 GMT
> I live on the West Coast of FLA and use Verizon AC. I have no problems with
> my coverage... Rarely do I "Extended Network" or lose 1x signal...
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> > PRL, not Altell. I have the additional digital roaming capability in
> > Orlando, and Altel is not in Orlando.

To clarify the last statement Cingular is still 1900 TDMA in West
Florida (Tampa bay) so although they are most likely quite good in
Orlando with the old Bellsouth 850 system now overlayed with GSM in
Tampa, they are a lot like Verizon and Sprint.. 1900 Mhz.
S. Evelyn Jackson - 01 Jan 2004 20:58 GMT
And you may be wondering why you can use your VZW phone on Alltell network.
Because they come under the same umbrella. Alltell is an acquisition of VZW.
That is the answer in a nutshell.

Eve

> > I live on the West Coast of FLA and use Verizon AC. I have no problems with
> > my coverage... Rarely do I "Extended Network" or lose 1x signal...
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> Orlando with the old Bellsouth 850 system now overlayed with GSM in
> Tampa, they are a lot like Verizon and Sprint.. 1900 Mhz.
Steven J Sobol - 01 Jan 2004 22:19 GMT
In alt.cellular.verizon S. Evelyn Jackson <jackseve@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> And you may be wondering why you can use your VZW phone on Alltell network.
> Because they come under the same umbrella. Alltell is an acquisition of VZW.
> That is the answer in a nutshell.

That is a flat-out LIE.

Jesus, Evelyn.

Not only did Verizon NOT acquire Alltel, they have done a couple big
spectrum swaps because Verizon could not keep all of the markets they acquired
during the company's creation... my prime example is my hometown,
Cleveland, where I lived up until last June... Verizon Wireless was built from
a number of other carriers including AirTouch and GTE, and *both* AirTouch
and GTE sold cellular service in Cleveland. VZW could not hold on to both.
Therefore they kept AirTouch and re-branded it as Verizon Wireless, and they
sold the GTE network in Northeast Ohio to Alltel. It was a good fit, since
Alltel was already the landline service provider in many outlying areas east
and south of Cleveland anyhow.

Alltel continues to be a completely separate carrier operating out of Little
Rock, Arkansas. Verizon is headquartered in Bedminster, New Jersey and does
not own any part of Alltel.

Furthermore, Verizon probably doesn't want to own Alltel because Alltel's
focus is on smaller markets.

May I suggest something? Go educate yourself before making another post to
this group.

Signature

JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Geek In Charge * 888.480.4NET (4638) * sjsobol@JustThe.net

William - 01 Jan 2004 22:29 GMT
Steven,

I had the same feeling when I read her uninformed posts, especially
when she said that calls to voice mail come out of M2M.  That's why
I blocked her.

W.

> In alt.cellular.verizon S. Evelyn Jackson <jackseve@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > And you may be wondering why you can use your VZW phone on Alltell network.
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> May I suggest something? Go educate yourself before making another post to
> this group.
Steven J Sobol - 02 Jan 2004 00:34 GMT
In alt.cellular.verizon William <answer@news.group> wrote:
> Steven,
>
> I had the same feeling when I read her uninformed posts, especially
> when she said that calls to voice mail come out of M2M.  That's why
> I blocked her.

Filtering her is fine, but there are people who come to this newsgroup for
information and I hate to see them get completely incorrect info, which is why
I personally respond to her. I'd like her to just STFU and go away, but who
knows if that's going to happen.

What really bugs me is that she sounds like she might be a CSR or other
VZW employee, and if so, she is the most ill-informed Verizon employee I
have *ever* spoken to, and she either needs to get a clue and pay attention
to her training, or go find another job.

Signature

JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Geek In Charge * 888.480.4NET (4638) * sjsobol@JustThe.net

David S - 03 Jan 2004 06:05 GMT
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 18:34:45 -0600, Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and
everything:

>In alt.cellular.verizon William <answer@news.group> wrote:
>> Steven,
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>have *ever* spoken to, and she either needs to get a clue and pay attention
>to her training, or go find another job.

Hmmm.....

>S. Evelyn Jackson <jackseve@sbcglobal.net>

Just a coincidence that her ISP is SBC?

Calling all conspiracy theorists....

-
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
"For the same price, I can get an actor with two eyes."
- Harry Cohn, Columbia Pictures head, on Peter Falk, 1958
Steven J Sobol - 03 Jan 2004 18:24 GMT
In alt.cellular.verizon David S <dwstreeter@att.net> wrote:

>>S. Evelyn Jackson <jackseve@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Just a coincidence that her ISP is SBC?

Maybe she works for SBC; she certainly *sounds* clueless enough to be an
SBC employee. :)

Signature

JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Geek In Charge * 888.480.4NET (4638) * sjsobol@JustThe.net

plane - 18 Jan 2004 00:48 GMT
> On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 18:34:45 -0600, Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
> chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> "For the same price, I can get an actor with two eyes."
> - Harry Cohn, Columbia Pictures head, on Peter Falk, 1958

Are you sauing that voice mails calls don't come out of m2m--mine have
for the last few months
Andy S - 01 Jan 2004 22:37 GMT
Roy" <zeno1234@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:BBF0C4EE.29207%zeno1234@mindspring.com...
On 12/1/03 10:09 AM, in article
BBF0C3EF.29204%zeno1234@mindspring.com,
"Roy" <zeno1234@mindspring.com> wrote:
On 12/1/03 9:06 AM, in article
SVHyb.368402$0v4.19349868@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net,
<n9wos@nobug.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
"alahater" <alahater@ureach.com> wrote in message
news:953339ff.0401011042.663d89f6@posting.google.com...
"Matt J. Britt" <NoSpam@NoSpam.NoSpam> wrote in message
news:<DhMyb.38520$ZV6.607@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
> "S. Evelyn Jackson" <jackseve@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote in message
news:ER%Ib.16783$aw2.10015483@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> And you may be wondering why you can use your VZW phone on Alltell network.
> Because they come under the same umbrella. Alltell is an acquisition of VZW.
> That is the answer in a nutshell.
>
> Eve

AllTel is not, repeat, NOT under VZW.  They are a whole DIFFERENT
company.  AllTel IS however, a roaming partner of VZW
Signature

Andrew D. Sisson

Thomas M. Goethe - 02 Jan 2004 00:18 GMT
> And you may be wondering why you can use your VZW phone on Alltell network.
> Because they come under the same umbrella. Alltell is an acquisition of VZW.
> That is the answer in a nutshell.

   Nope, Alltel is not a Verizon property. Alltel has a lot of roaming
agreements with VZW, but it is not inside the VZW nutshell.

Signature

Thomas M. Goethe

> Eve
>
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
> > Orlando with the old Bellsouth 850 system now overlayed with GSM in
> > Tampa, they are a lot like Verizon and Sprint.. 1900 Mhz.
Michael Notforyou - 02 Dec 2003 00:54 GMT
> Alltel provides 800Mhz service on the west side of Florida.
> That's why people visiting Florida think that Verizon has good coverage
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> But the people that live there have to live with verizon's 1.9Ghz coverage.
> They can't roam on Alltel.

Wait...

VZW customers have equal or higher priority on Alltel than on VZW?

Justalurker's PRL 50013:

Priority 1:
04192  PCS  --  Verizon Wireless - Fort Myers/Naples/Orlando/Tampa FL
           SCAN   425B  150A  600B  675B  375D 1025C
...
Priority 2:
00042  D/A  FR  AllTel Communications
           022B  Tampa-St. Petersburg FL
           114B  Lakeland-Winter Haven FL
           164B  Fort Myers FL Counties - Lee
           167B  Sarasota FL
           211B  Bradenton FL
           360B  Florida 1 - Collier
           361B  Florida 2 - Glades
           362B  Florida 3 - Hardee
           363B  Florida 4 - Citrus
           370B  Florida 11 - Monroe

VZW's PCS is Priority 1, home network, while Alltel's B-side is
Priority 2, free roam. I think that you'd have PCS coverage before
B-side and only drop to Alltel's free roam on the B-side when there's
no PCS coverage present.

Right?

BTW, it's similar for my area. VZW is on A-side and Alltel's on
B-side. It's free roam on Alltel for me on AC. No mention of Sprint
PCS in the PRL, though (PCS #3).

*Michael Notforyou*
Steve - 01 Dec 2003 02:56 GMT
Hello all

This is a very true Fact Verizon in FL is real bad.. I was a beta
tester for them for 3 months.. They did not like me telling them
service is poor.. Cingular is 100% better by far

Verizon is 1900 in FL its the old Primco system Sprint is 1900 to
The PCS band is real poor in general.. Cingular is 850 GSM now and its
still great.. There still working out some small bugs.. Verizon has
lots of 1900 markets where service is real poor.. Stay with Cingular

From steve

>I understand  Verizon quality is not good in FLA due to much of it there
>being 1900 MHz, like Sprint.  Pick a carrier with 800MHz there and you will
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>>
>> Aaron Worley

Note: This post may contain misspellings, grammatical errors,
disorganized sentence structure, or may entirely lack a coherent
theme. These elements are natural to the process of writing, and will
only add to the overall beauty of the post.
Steven M. Scharf - 04 Dec 2003 06:10 GMT
> I have to agree, it is a good idea to stay away from a carrier that
> only has 1.9Ghz coverage in your area.

This is a very valid point. In my area (San Francisco Bay Area) the two best
carriers have consistently (and unsurprisingly) been AT&T wireless (TDMA)
and Verizon (CDMA). Sprint PCS is mediocre, Cingular and T-Mobile are
absolutely horrible. But recently, AT&T's TDMA coverage has begun to
deteriorate. I believe that they are converting more of their valuable 800
Mhz bandwidth over to GSM in order to solve their GSM coverage issues at
1900 Mhz. When complete, this will be good news for AT&T's GSM customers,
and will be the final straw for Cingular and T-Mobile since they can't
duplicate this 800 Mhz coverage; anyone that wants GSM will choose AT&T if
coverage is their main concern. But in the meantime, AT&T is offering
mediocre 1900 Mhz GSM (though better than Cingular and T-Mobile), their 800
Mhz GSM is being used only by very recent subscribers that have the proper
handset, and their TDMA coverage is worsening. So we've gone from having two
decent carriers (Verizon and AT&T) to only one (Verizon).

I think the reason that Verizon is doing so well in my area is that cellular
subscribers have grown up. They no longer look just at price, especially if
they've been burned by Cingular, T-Mobile, or Sprint. AT&T actually has more
to lose with LNP than Cingular because Cingular is so absolutely terrible
that most people left already, and didn't worry about keeping their number.
But AT&T signed up massive numbers of corporate accounts, all the way back
to their Cellular One days, and these accounts are now up for grabs just at
the time when AT&T quality is going down. I think that part of the reason
that some carriers so violently opposed LNP was that the timing was
particulary bad for them, coming in the midst of a technology conversion.

Steve
Todd Allcock - 26 Nov 2003 16:56 GMT
> I went by both a Cingular location and a Verizon one today here in NC.  The
> Cingular location was deserted while the Verizon one was booming. I will bet
> it is all those disgruntled Cingular customers porting their numbers to
> Verizon.

QUICK!  Sell your SBC stock!  A Cingular store in North Carolina's
having a slow day...

For the gazillionth time, why are many folks here acting like Nov.24th
was the first day anybody was ever allowed to switch cellular
carriers?

Sure, SOME people will be enticed to switch because they can keep
their number, but that number is relatively all compared to the number
of people who hop carriers every time their contract is up.

So, if Cingular sucks in your area as badly as you say,

A) most of their disgruntled customers would have already switched,
even if it meant changing numbers, and...

B) EVERYDAY is a slow day at the store!  The better carriers' stores
in a given area are always busier!

In Kansas City where I was a Cingular customer and agent Cingular had
the best coverage.  They were the 800Hz wireline carrier (Southwestern
Bell), and Verizon bought the competing A-side carrier, a Cellular One
franchise.

> Face it, at least in the Carolinas, Cingular's coverage area is
> very limited compared to Verizon and Alltel (Cingular's is mostly in big
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> are in the Carolinas, either go with VZW or Alltel, both great choices.
> Stay away from Cingular.

Depends on needs and pricing, I guess.  Isn't Cingular quite a bit
cheaper than both VW and Alltel?

I'm now doing something I never thought I'd do- using a 1900MHz-only
PCS carrier (T-Mo).  I've traded extensive coverage for cheap
minuteand cheaper data, and I'm fine with it.  I have a TDMA/analog
phone in the car for "emergencies" in case I end up somewhere T-Mo
doesn't go.

If you stick to the highways, I suppose even NC's Cingular service is
adequate.  (I hope so- that's what my T-Mo would roam on if I ever get
out that way!)  ;-)
Trimodeman - 27 Nov 2003 16:01 GMT
I was talking about the Carolinas. I agree that it wiull ultimately depend
on your market where you live.  Here, VZW and Alltel are the 800MHz
providers in the Carolinas and I do think that gives them an edge in terms
of signal quality. However, if you look at coverage maps here, Cingular's
depth of coverage is very spotty.

Also, nationally the consumer satisfaction surveys show that in most major
markets Cingular is at the very bottom, with very unhappy customers, with
Verizon at or near the top.  So, while you might like Cingular in your
market, over the entire country objective surveys, unlike your unobjective
ranting (you need to learn to speak without saying sucks- obviously your
parents did a poor job raising you, you are uneducated, or if educated, much
have cheated), say just the opposite.

> > I went by both a Cingular location and a Verizon one today here in NC.  The
> > Cingular location was deserted while the Verizon one was booming. I will bet
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> adequate.  (I hope so- that's what my T-Mo would roam on if I ever get
> out that way!)  ;-)
N9WOS - 27 Nov 2003 16:11 GMT
> So, while you might like Cingular in your
> market, over the entire country objective surveys, unlike your unobjective
> ranting (you need to learn to speak without saying sucks- obviously your
> parents did a poor job raising you, you are uneducated, or if educated, much
> have cheated), say just the opposite.

And you dropping to personal attacks makes your opinion
worth far less than his opinion, in my mind.

And I also consider it as trolling.
So I will not entertain this discussion any further.
Trimodeman - 27 Nov 2003 16:49 GMT
He made it personal.
> > So, while you might like Cingular in your
> > market, over the entire country objective surveys, unlike your unobjective
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> And I also consider it as trolling.
> So I will not entertain this discussion any further.
Aboutdakota - 27 Nov 2003 20:26 GMT
> He made it personal.

How so?  Provide an example and explanation.  I read his post and feel
that it was a valid point.  If Cingular is that bad there, most people
who hate Cingular are already avoiding it.

AD
Scott Stephenson - 27 Nov 2003 16:56 GMT
> I was talking about the Carolinas. I agree that it wiull ultimately depend
> on your market where you live.  Here, VZW and Alltel are the 800MHz
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> parents did a poor job raising you, you are uneducated, or if educated,
> much have cheated), say just the opposite.

I thing to keep in mind- while Trimodeman is right on point about Verizon
being at the top of the pile with regards to Customer Service, keep in mind
that best, in this case, still has a Customer Satisfaction rating of less
than 70%.  Nobody in the industry has what a normal person would call
'great customer service'- the best are just above the others.  Kind of like
being 'tallest of the pygmies'.
Trimodeman - 27 Nov 2003 17:18 GMT
Agreed. The whole industry has a long way to go.  I hope there will come a
day when it is impossible to tell whether you are on a cell phone or a
landline.

Switching gears, is anyone familiar with how good (or bad) the voice quality
with voice over IP provider Vonage is?  I am thinking about moving my
business  lines to that but would like views on the quality.

> > I was talking about the Carolinas. I agree that it wiull ultimately depend
> > on your market where you live.  Here, VZW and Alltel are the 800MHz
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> 'great customer service'- the best are just above the others.  Kind of like
> being 'tallest of the pygmies'.
JRW - 27 Nov 2003 22:53 GMT
> I am thinking about moving my
> business  lines to that but would like views on the quality.

Tried that. We hosed the Cisco phone sets with DOS attacks.
Todd Allcock - 28 Nov 2003 18:24 GMT
> I was talking about the Carolinas. I agree that it wiull ultimately depend
> on your market where you live.

Yet you titled this thread you started "Cingular Hurting Bad on
Portability," (which may or may not be true, but certainly unsupported
by your post)- not "Cingular in Carolinas Hurting..." (also
unsupported by your anecdotal evidence) or "Cingular Hurting in East
Undershirt, NC" or wherever (a tenable argument given your exhaustive
drive-by research.)

>  Here, VZW and Alltel are the 800MHz
> providers in the Carolinas and I do think that gives them an edge in terms
> of signal quality. However, if you look at coverage maps here, Cingular's
> depth of coverage is very spotty.

I don't doubt it.  Again, my problem was your condemnation of a
carrier's entire network by it's service in your area.

> Also, nationally the consumer satisfaction surveys show that in most major
> markets Cingular is at the very bottom, with very unhappy customers, with
> Verizon at or near the top.  So, while you might like Cingular in your
> market, over the entire country objective surveys, unlike your unobjective
> ranting

One such "survey" who's link was posted here a month or two ago showed
the spread between the top carriers within 2-3 percentage points of
each other, and Sprint, not Cingular, at the bottom.

> (you need to learn to speak without saying sucks- obviously your
> parents did a poor job raising you

You're insulting my PARENTS knowing nothing about them and I'm the one
shortchanged in my upbringing?

I could point out a similar defect in your upbringing, since your
parents, or your education, didn't teach you the difference between
"speak" and "write."
To explain briefly, the latter is apparently a method to express a
thought on Usenet with a free e-mail account that basic decorum would
prefent you from expressing face-to-face in the former.

>, you are uneducated, or if educated, much
> have cheated), say just the opposite.

Perhaps- or perhaps I simply allow myself the luxury of bending the
rules of proper English when responding to obvious trolling or
baiting.

Now, after sadly having sunk to your level of personal attack, let me
ask you a question.  First, the background: I recently moved to a
suburb in a valley southwest of Denver.  Despite my usual preference
for 800MHz carriers, neither AT&T or Verizon (Denver's A and B license
carriers) work in my neighborhood, yet three 1900MHz ones do (T-Mo,
Qwest and Sprint.)  Now the question: which would be the best title
for my next post to the Verizon NG:

Verizon has No Service!,

Verizon has No Service in Colorado!, or

Verizon has No Service in Denver, Colorado?

Certainly it wouldn't be "Verizon has No Service in My Neighborhood, a
small suburb of Denver, Colorado?"

Just curious...
Jason Cothran - 29 Nov 2003 00:40 GMT
> > I was talking about the Carolinas. I agree that it wiull ultimately depend
> > on your market where you live.
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>
> Just curious...

At any rate, if you check J.D. Power ratings, Cingular is tied for first
overall (3-way tie at that) in the southeast (which of course includes the
carolinas), and neither of the other two is Verizon. I know here in the GSP
(SC)area, Cingular's coverage is definately better than Verizon's.
Trimodeman - 29 Nov 2003 12:55 GMT
Thanks for the JD Power survey information.  Very interesting survey you
pointed out.   It does indeed show Cingular at the top in the SE, which I
would not have expected, so I am wrong.  For those interested in reading the
JD Power survey, here  is the link:

http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003113&search=1

> > "Trimodeman" <trimodeman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<xdpxb.23780$Vu5.1808848@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
> carolinas), and neither of the other two is Verizon. I know here in the GSP
> (SC)area, Cingular's coverage is definately better than Verizon's.
 
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