Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Cingular / January 2004
Is Cingular now all GSM?
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Pat - 05 Dec 2003 00:15 GMT The shopping malls are a gauntlet of cellphone dealers, that you have to navigate. These people are as predatory as sharks and very aggressive.
Today, I was informed by a Cingular reseller, at a Boston area mall, that Cingular is now all GSM. He said it happened in the last 3 weeks. All the cellphones were GSM in the display case.
Is this guy for real?
Mark W. Oots - 05 Dec 2003 00:29 GMT In a word....No! In your area, Cingular may have GSM at every cell site, and 95% of their markets will have overlays by the end of the month, but TDMA still exists along side the GSM. Now, if the question is "Do I have to buy a GSM phone if I want to buy one now?", the answer is....Yep! Either that or GAIT (There are only two, no flip phones, no color displays on GAIT phones ... just anticipating the usual questions ....and no, there probably won't be any new model GAIT phones in the future.....)
Mark
> The shopping malls are a gauntlet of cellphone dealers, that you have to > navigate. These people are as predatory as sharks and very aggressive. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Is this guy for real? Hi There - 05 Dec 2003 03:47 GMT I picked up a GAIT phone at a local Cingular store and they tried to talk me out of it and into a GSM-only. TDMA is being "phased out", "that's the old network". They are obviously on a commision program that favors GSM, and they are not thinking of my needs here. I knew better... and I want coverage where I know GSM would not be available.
Most of the Cingular stores in the Boston area likely have at least the 6340i GAIT so you can get TDMA/GSM/AMPS. Just don't ask them what GAIT stands for....they probably wont know.
> In a word....No! In your area, Cingular may have GSM at every cell site, and > 95% of their markets will have overlays by the end of the month, but TDMA [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 Aaron Worley - 05 Dec 2003 07:18 GMT > Just don't ask them what GAIT >stands for....they probably wont know. ...my question exactly: I'm a musician on the road, and I've GOT to have the best possible coverage; the Cingular salesgirl sold me the Nokia 6340i about 6 weeks ago, and she said that Cingular wouldn't be all GSM for another year...anyway, would one of you kind, fine folks explain GAIT to me and how it works? Muchas gracias, Aaron Worley
Group Special Mobile - 05 Dec 2003 15:45 GMT >...my question exactly: I'm a musician on the road, and I've GOT to have the >best possible coverage; the Cingular salesgirl sold me the Nokia 6340i about 6 >weeks ago, and she said that Cingular wouldn't be all GSM for another >year...anyway, would one of you kind, fine folks explain GAIT to me and how it >works? GAIT: GSM ANSI Interoperability Team. A GAIT handset is a handset that has the capability of using GSM, TDMA (IS-136) and analog AMPS. The handset is optomized to choose which networks it connects to in a specific order. I believe (though am not 100% sure on this) that its first preference is for GSM networks. It will then choose TDMA (IS-136) networks and finally if neither GSM or TDMA IS-136 networks are available it will chose an analog AMPS network. In theory anyway this will give you the best coverage available provided that you can access GSM, TDMA or AMPS networks. From what I understand there's no smooth handoff between GSM or TDMA to the other modes so if you lose signal your call will drop and your party will have to call you again or you'll have to call them again.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To send an email reply send to GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com
Aboutdakota - 05 Dec 2003 19:18 GMT > GAIT: GSM ANSI Interoperability Team. A GAIT handset is a handset > that has the capability of using GSM, TDMA (IS-136) and analog AMPS. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > To send an email reply send to > GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com There is a smooth handoff between TDMA and AMPS, and AMPS to TDMA. I have not actually used my GSM mode yet, as I've been roaming in TDMA/AMPS territory since I got my phone. I should start picking up a GSM signal by the end of the year via Western Wireless.
==AD
Chris Russell - 26 Dec 2003 18:19 GMT GSM will not hand-off to TDMA/AMPS and vice versa. When you get a GSM signal and the call leaves GSM, you'll probably get the 3 quiet beeps then nothing. Suppossedly they are trying to fix this problem and make GSM hand-off to TDMA/AMPS. Altough I see this as the same situation with my SPCS phone and you are on a call on the SPCS network and lose the signal, it will aways drop the call and not hand-off to another CDMA or AMPS carrier.
Chris Please respond on Usenet Happy Holidays!
> There is a smooth handoff between TDMA and AMPS, and AMPS to TDMA. I > have not actually used my GSM mode yet, as I've been roaming in > TDMA/AMPS territory since I got my phone. I should start picking up a > GSM signal by the end of the year via Western Wireless. > > ==AD JRW - 03 Jan 2004 00:23 GMT > GSM will not hand-off to TDMA/AMPS and vice versa. When you get a GSM > signal and the call leaves GSM, you'll probably get the 3 quiet beeps > then nothing. This is not good for me. I'm constantly moving driving between Cingular's GSM and someone else's TDMA. I'd be dropping almost every call!
Chris Russell - 03 Jan 2004 00:37 GMT It is very possible that the phone may switch to ATTWS GSM or T-Mobile GSM, the largest GSM roaming partners for Cingular. Also, how do you know that it didn't switch to Cingular TDMA (outside NYC and CA) and then it could switch to a TDMA/AMPS roaming signal. Currently my 6340i is camping on DCCH (TDMA) on Detroit metro area's very east side. Sometimes it stays on TDMA driving all over the metro area-even though GSM was supposedly turned on 10/02. I have had very few calls drop running out of a GSM signal. Also, they are supposedly working on a GSM handoff procedure for a phone upgrade.
Chris Please respond in the newsgroup
> > GSM will not hand-off to TDMA/AMPS and vice versa. When you get a GSM > > signal and the call leaves GSM, you'll probably get the 3 quiet beeps [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Cingular's GSM and someone else's TDMA. I'd be dropping almost every > call! John S. - 03 Jan 2004 12:08 GMT >This is not good for me. I'm constantly moving driving between >Cingular's GSM and someone else's TDMA. I'd be dropping almost every >call! However, if you NEED to make that call, you will and be happy that you are not looking for the ever disappearing pay phones. Besides, standing out in the cold and the rain and the snow is not as preferable as just re-dialing the phone.
And have you noticed that there simply are no more "Phone Booths" any more to get you in out of that above mentioned weather.
-- John S. e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net
JRW - 03 Jan 2004 20:55 GMT >>This is not good for me. I'm constantly moving driving between >>Cingular's GSM and someone else's TDMA. I'd be dropping almost every [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > looking for the ever disappearing pay phones. Besides, standing out in the cold > and the rain and the snow is not as preferable as just re-dialing the phone. I wouldn't mind using a payphone, it would certainly be clearer. However some of the areas I work in don't even have paved roads, much less a Sonic or Dairy Queen.
Aboutdakota - 05 Dec 2003 15:54 GMT >>Just don't ask them what GAIT >>stands for....they probably wont know. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > works? Muchas gracias, > Aaron Worley There isn't a whole lot to it. GAIT stands for GSM/ANSI-136 Interoperability Team. ANSI-136 is a more technical name for the TDMA standard that is widely used with Cingular and AT&T. It works much like a TDMA/AMPS phone, where the phone will try to attain acceptable TDMA signal before it will attain AMPS signal.
If am not totally correct, please correct me if I am wrong. GAIT phones, unless set otherwise, will have a GSM home preference, then TDMA home preference, then AMPS home preference. After that it will go to the most preferred GSM roaming partner, then the most preferred TDMA partner, then the most preferred AMPS roaming partner. The idea with GSM being the preferred technology is that the phone, after the TDMA to GSM transition, the phone will work fine with new GSM system, but still have TDMA/AMPS as an additional fallback.
==AD
Chris Russell - 06 Dec 2003 01:08 GMT I have my 6340i in field test mode much of the time and it always goes to the 21 section and looks for DCCH(TDMA) and ACCH(AMPS)first before the 01 section and CCCH(GSM). When home on the east side of Detroit, I am on DCCH(TDMA) most of the time and the last time I went over to the gallery on the west side to pick up my load it stayed on DCCH all over town. Right now it is 'camping' on DCCH. I don't know if this occurs because I came from the TDMA Nation Plan.
Chris Please respond on Usenet
> >>Just don't ask them what GAIT > >>stands for....they probably wont know. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > ==AD NOLA - 07 Dec 2003 15:49 GMT > I have my 6340i in field test mode much of the time and it always goes > to the 21 section and looks for DCCH(TDMA) and ACCH(AMPS)first before [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Chris > Please respond on Usenet Cingular sets the 6340i to TDMA preferred or GSM preferred depending on your home market. When I got mine, it was set to TDMA preferred as yours is, but then about a week before they turned on GSM here, it was changed to GSM preferred. I started picking up GSM before it went live and only get TDMA when there is no GSM signal.
Tom
Chris Russell - 26 Dec 2003 18:12 GMT The Detroit market has been transitioned to GSM since Oct, 02 and my 6340i still starts with TDMA/AMPS first. I was told in Dec, 02 that my phone was the first GSM accessible phone in my area and still one of a very few when I wondered why I hadn't been picking up very much GSM. Now give any TDMA service and anything but Cingular GSM. Suffer from echo problems on incoming calls and lower voice level except from other cell phones. I do not suffer these problems on ATTWS, VoiceStream(T-Mobile), Einstein PCS, USA 360, 390, 450, Iowa Wireless, etc. GSM systems.
Chris Please respond on Usenet Happy Holidays!
> Cingular sets the 6340i to TDMA preferred or GSM preferred depending on your > home market. When I got mine, it was set to TDMA preferred as yours is, but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Tom John Navas - 05 Dec 2003 21:59 GMT >> Just don't ask them what GAIT >>stands for....they probably wont know. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >year...anyway, would one of you kind, fine folks explain GAIT to me and how it >works? ... While GAIT will give you the "best possible coverage," actual coverage is governed by the programming of the SIM, and it won't necessarily give you the best possible signal in any event. From prior posts by me:
========================================================================
Which network the phone will select depends on how the phone is programmed (on the SIM) by the carrier. There are four different modes of GAIT operation:
* GSM Native Mode: This is where the mobile is homed to a GSM network and is operating on a GSM network. In this mode, the mobile is able to perform standard GSM type functions including SMS and Data services (circuit switched at 9600 or 14400 bps and packet switched service if it is offered).
* ANSI-136 Native Mode: This is where the mobile is homed to an ANSI-136 network and is operating on an ANSI-136 network. In this mode, the mobile is able to perform standard ANSI-136 functions including text messaging using GHOST SMS and Data services (circuit switched at 9600 bps).
* GSM Foreign Mode: This is where the mobile is homed to an ANSI-136 network but is operating on a GSM network. At this time, the GSM portion of the phone is operational and the network's Interworking and Interoperability Function (IIF) handles the call delivery and SMS routing from the ANSI-136 network to the serving GSM network.
* ANSI-136 Foreign Mode: This is where a GSM native subscriber is accessing an ANSI-136 network. Again, routing of calls and SMS is handled by the network's Interworking and Interoperability Function.
In short, a GAIT phone will be "homed" to either GSM or ANSI-136 (TDMA). Network selection will be based on standard mechanisms in both technologies.
Suppose that the GAIT phone scans for service and determines that there are two networks available for selection, an ANSI-136 Neutral system and a GSM Neutral system. If the PPI (Protocol Priority Indicator) is set to ANSI-136 Preferred, then the mobile selects the ANSI-136 Neutral system. Conversely, if the PPI is set to GSM Preferred, then the mobile selects the GSM Neutral system.
Suppose that the GAIT phone scans for service and determines that there are two network available for selection, an ANSI-136 Group A (Home) system and a GSM Group B (Preferred) system. The mobile selects the ANSI-136 system even if the signal is better on the GSM system.
Network selection is a function of preferences configured by the carrier, not signal strength. It doesn't matter that the signal might be better on the other technology.
========================================================================
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Selection of network is controlled by GAIT SIM programming by the carrier. The phone will be "homed" to either GSM or TDMA (ANSI-136), and selection of network will be done by standard mechanisms in those technologies (Home, Preferred, etc.).
* If a GAIT phone finds both a usable GSM Group B (Preferred) network and a usable TDMA Group A (Home) network, then the phone selects the TDMA network, regardless of relative signal strengths, and vice versa. Home takes precedence over Preferred.
* If a GAIT phone finds both a usable GSM network and a usable TDMA network of the same priority (e.g., Preferred), and the phone is homed to TDMA, then the phone selects the TDMA network, regardless of relative signal strengths. Conversely, if the phone is homed to GSM, then it selects the GSM network, regardless of relative signal strengths. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are in an area where GSM is not usable and non-Cingular ANSI-136 is usable, whether or not a Cingular GAIT phone would work on ANSI-136 would depend on the type of available ANSI-136 network. The phone would select a Partner, Favored, or Neutral network, in descending order, if there were any such network(s) with usable signal(s). It would not select a Forbidden network, except for emergency calls.
So whether or not *any* (GSM-homed or TDMA-homed) Cingular GAIT phone would work on TDMA in a GSM-only area (e.g., California) would depend on (1) TDMA roaming agreement(s) by Cingular, and (2) programming by Cingular to reflect those roaming agreements. I doubt that anyone here knows for sure the answers to those questions, and I suspect it might be hard to get that information from Cingular, leaving us only with speculation; i.e., we can't say for sure one way or the other.
========================================================================
 Signature Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular
Pat - 06 Dec 2003 17:12 GMT This is the Gait phone I found on Cingular.
http://tinyurl.com/y0mj
In the Greater Boston area and local regions around RTE495, does it nicely flow between the various towers based on signal strength or does it try to use GSM and only go to TDMA when there is no GSM or so weak a GSM there is no other option than TDMA?
> In a word....No! In your area, Cingular may have GSM at every cell site, and > 95% of their markets will have overlays by the end of the month, but TDMA [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 JAlves - 06 Dec 2003 17:59 GMT > This is the Gait phone I found on Cingular. > > http://tinyurl.com/y0mj This link doesn't work for me.
 Signature Please reply to the group, not by email. The email address in the header is not valid unless you remove the obvious.
Aaron Worley - 13 Dec 2003 11:16 GMT OK, then: how exactly do you tell what mode the phone is in, on a 6340i? Aaron Worley
Jud Hardcastle - 13 Dec 2003 16:23 GMT > OK, then: how exactly do you tell what mode the phone is in, on a 6340i? > Aaron Worley Quickest way I've found: select menu--select messages--scroll up two clicks to "Service command editor". If it's grayed out you're NOT on GSM. Some of the call forwarding options are also grayed out on TDMA/amps and the options themselves behave differently. On GSM, if call forwarding is active (or you have voicemail) when you PLACE a call you'll hear a beep and the display will say something like "call forwarding active". The only way I've found to distinguish TDMA from AMPS is via the field test screens--and the lack of SMS messages :-)
PITA. Why couldn't they have a G/T/A indicator--oh I forget--the poor consumer isn't supposed to know or care which system he's on--right.
 Signature Jud Dallas TX USA
Bob Niles - 13 Dec 2003 21:02 GMT >> OK, then: how exactly do you tell what mode the phone is in, on a 6340i? >> Aaron Worley While on a call if the lower right corner displays "MUTE" , you are on TDMA or analog. If Hold is displayed you are on GSM.
Aaron Worley - 26 Dec 2003 09:47 GMT >TDMA or analog. ...thanks guys...now another question: TDMA is the digital signal that followed AMPS, the original analog signal...is this correct? Oh yeah, and what are "field test screens", and SMS messages?? Muchas gracias... Aaron Worley
Joseph - 26 Dec 2003 16:31 GMT >Oh yeah, and what are >"field test screens", and SMS messages?? SMS = Short Message System. Part of the GSM spec. which other technologies also used. Earlier TDMA phones could only accept messages and could not originate messages. Some carriers such as Sprint PCS don't have traditional SMS in that you need to go to the web to retrieve messages.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - add .com to reply
Chris Russell - 26 Dec 2003 18:55 GMT To find how to get a Nokia 6340i in to field test mode see this link:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:chris.russell%40aemail4u.com&start=10&h l=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=68f75104.0312210601.d909ac%40posting.google.com&rnum=11&f ilter=0
Chris please respond on Usenet Happy Holidays!
> >TDMA or analog. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Muchas gracias... > Aaron Worley Chris Russell - 26 Dec 2003 18:37 GMT My 6340i usually doesn't beep the call forwarding notice very much anymore. I do have menu 12 'Field Test'. I usually get the GSM carrier on my alpha tag, but I can get ATT Wireless and VoiceStream(T-Mobile) as these or Cingular Extend. I've gotten Einsein PCS, Iowa Wireless, USA 350, 390, 450(US Cellular) and Microcell(Canadian) among others.
Chris Please respond on Usenet Happy Holidays!
> Quickest way I've found: select menu--select messages--scroll up two > clicks to "Service command editor". If it's grayed out you're NOT on [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > PITA. Why couldn't they have a G/T/A indicator--oh I forget--the poor > consumer isn't supposed to know or care which system he's on--right. Aaron Worley - 29 Dec 2003 00:43 GMT Hey Chris, I tried to send this to your e-mail address, but couldn't firgure out how to do it...and went to usenet, and they wanted to charge me to send you something...thanks, Aaron Worley Hey, sorry to bother you...you seem to know more about this subject than Cingular does! What exactly is the purpose of "field test mode"? Is it possible to re-assign which signal my 6340i will look for first? Also, another question, if you're inclined to answer: I've been using my 6340i as a modem with my laptop for internet...however, I'm in Northern Michigan now (UP) and the phone is on AMPS, I'm pretty sure, and I'm not able to get through to the Cingular dial-up number like normal...is this because data can't be transmitted through analog signals? Thanks a whole bunch, Aaron"Wes" Worley Aaron Worley
Chris Russell - 29 Dec 2003 23:09 GMT Wes, the field test mode will allow you to see whether you are on GSM, TDMA or AMPS. Section 01-01 thru 01-13 are for GSM only and 01-01 will show you the channel you are on and the signal strength (usually -49 to [-]113-the lower number the better the signal strength) and will list CCCH. A few screens later it will show the channels available. 01-09 wil show the LAC (local [gsm]area code and CID (cell id-similar to TDMA/AMPS SID). Some of the later 01 pages, do not fool with them as you can change them. 21-01 thru 21-09 are for TDMA/AMPS only. On 21-01 you will see signal strength, channel #, channel state and DCCH for TDMA and ACCH for AMPS. 21-02 will show you the SID as the lower right #. You will get an idea of the other screens if you use field test mode. Also, on any screen you can press * for two seconds and a cryptic explanation will come up, then press * again for two seconds to get back. You will not have any control of which signal it picks, it will all be autonatic. I have no info on modem usage on the 6340i as I don't use my phone as a modem. When I'm on the road in my 18-wheeler, I use Flying J's Wi-Fi at a couple hundred (and growing) truckstops around the country. I got an introductory rate of $99.95 (has now gone up to $199.95 -still a good rate compared to the rip-off WI-Fi in hotels, airports, etc.) for one year of service. At home I have SBC/Yahoo DSL.
Chris Please respond on Usenet in the newsgroup Happy Holidays!
> Hey Chris, I tried to send this to your e-mail address, but couldn't firgure > out how to do it...and went to usenet, and they wanted to charge me to send you [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Aaron"Wes" Worley > Aaron Worley Chris Russell - 26 Dec 2003 18:26 GMT It will try to hold a Cingular signal either GSM or TDMA before it will search for another carrier. And it will hold it down to 0 bars of signal strength, usually the point that it will switch. This is one of the few problems with the 6340i. I was in Earle, AR at the TA truckstop and it would keep switching from a 1 bar Cingular signal to a 6 bar ATTWS signal. It drove me nuts trying to make a call.
Chris Please respond on Usenet Happy Holidays!
> This is the Gait phone I found on Cingular. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > use GSM and only go to TDMA when there is no GSM or so weak a GSM there is > no other option than TDMA?
|
|
|