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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Cingular / April 2005A Question: Is my plan is still worth holding onto?
Hi, folks. I've been with what is now Cingular for many years and can renew or drop out and move to another service. I definately need a new phone, though, and Cingular is offering me an enhanced plan to renew. I am trying to view pros and cons. 1) A speaker cell phone would be very helpful with the work I do, but I cannot see that Cingular offers one. Is there any device that reliably can convert a cell phone to speaker? 2) The cell phone will be my main line and the sound quality is important so I'm considering PCS. I've compared it to my cell service and it is a great improvement. With all the new technology coming out with cellular service, will the cellular sound soon improve to be as good as PCS? 3) My plan with Cingular is "NATION 500" with which I can use the phone basically anywhere in the US with no roaming. I don't travel as much anymore, but Cingular tells me this is a valuable plan and to hold on to it. They say that they or no one else offers it anymore. Is it really such a unique plan? 4) With towers being GSM or Digital and new phones being GSM do you think this plan I have is still as valuable, being I'll loose service from the digital towers until they are converted? (I don't plan to pay extra for a multinetwork phone AND plan.) If the answers are No, No, No, and No, I'll consider Sprint, being they have PCS and a speakerphone. Any experiences with them? Thanks. Please see my responses embedded below. Hope you find them helpful. C > Hi, folks. I've been with what is now Cingular for many years and can > renew or drop out and move to another service. I definately need a new [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I cannot see that Cingular offers one. Is there any device that > reliably can convert a cell phone to speaker? I'm pretty sure Cingular offers several phones with built-in speaker phone feature. I think at least one of the Siemens phones supports it. And pretty sure at least one Nokia phone does also. There may be others, but I've seen a Nokia and Siemens being used. You can get self-install car kits for the Motorola phones (looks like R2D2 -- i have used it extensively and it works very well). I saw these still being offered in the Cingular store last time I visited (around August). > 2) The cell phone will be my main line and the sound quality is > important so I'm considering PCS. I've compared it to my cell service > and it is a great improvement. With all the new technology coming out > with cellular service, will the cellular sound soon improve to be as > good as PCS? GSM has an advanced voice proccessor called "adaptive multirate" vocoder. In general, it should outperform the PCS technology. Also, I again recommend the Motorola self install hands free kit if you plan to be in your car mostly. My experience with it has been that I do not need to mute the phone to eliminate road noise when I am not speaking during confernce calls. Somehow it senses when I am not speaking and automatically mutes. > 3) My plan with Cingular is "NATION 500" with which I can use the > phone basically anywhere in the US with no roaming. I don't travel as > much anymore, but Cingular tells me this is a valuable plan and to > hold on to it. They say that they or no one else offers it anymore. Is > it really such a unique plan? Don't know much about various pricing plans. Their website should have a lot of current info. > 4) With towers being GSM or Digital and new phones being GSM do you > think this plan I have is still as valuable, being I'll loose service > from the digital towers until they are converted? (I don't plan to pay > extra for a multinetwork phone AND plan.) Only a very few Cingular markets have not converted to GSM yet. And where they have not converted, you roam on other GSM carriers (AWS or T Mobile). In my experience, I have yet to travel to a location that does not have GSM coverage on my Cingular plan. I'm sure there are some very remote locations they may not be covered. But you may have trouble finding any coverage at all in these locations. > If the answers are No, No, No, and No, I'll consider Sprint, being > they have PCS and a speakerphone. Any experiences with them? > > Thanks. Thanks for the info. I fine-tuned the questions. > I'm pretty sure Cingular offers several phones with built-in speaker phone > feature. I think at least one of the Siemens phones supports it. And pretty [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > still being offered in the Cingular store last time I visited (around > August). My bad. I was actually referring to a speaker phone used in my house, not so much in the car. I work with computer programs and need my hands free as I speak to clients. Maybe an car kit would work? I don't care about multiple people being able to speak into the phone... I just need my hands free. Is there such a system that can be hooked into a phone for hands-free speaking? I don't want to push a button to speak. For example, the Hitachi P300 at Sprint can be used as a speaker phone, having the speaker and mic in the phone. http://tinyurl.com/z0i8 I didn't see any like-featured phones with Cingular with my zip (38125). I used this site to check: http://www.cingular.com/refresh/common/estore_zipcode?selinfo=Phones > > 2) The cell phone will be my main line and the sound quality is > > important so I'm considering PCS. I've compared it to my cell service [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > phone to eliminate road noise when I am not speaking during confernce calls. > Somehow it senses when I am not speaking and automatically mutes. Well, that's intreging. I don't want to change from Cingular (with rollover) just for sound if better sound is right around the corner. > > 3) My plan with Cingular is "NATION 500" with which I can use the > > phone basically anywhere in the US with no roaming. I don't travel as [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > they may not be covered. But you may have trouble finding any coverage at > all in these locations. This is the most confusing issue of all for me. Cingular lists a Nation GSM 500, which requires a more modern GSM phone but seems to shrink the covered area. When I first got the plan, almost the whole US was roam-free for me. Looking at their map, now, it does not seem to be that. See if that what it looks like to you. This is a map of the GSM Nation Area (http://tinyurl.com/z0l1). So what happens if I'm outside the "Cingular Nation" area? Will it roam and I get roaming free, like before, or do I have a cellular paper weight in my hand? Last I spoke to Cingular they said I'd have a paper weight. However, Cingular offers a Nation 500 plan that is more like my original area (http://tinyurl.com/z0ll), but it requires a multi-network phone (And there are only two phones and they are cheapies at that. One is horrible.). But it gets worse. Even with a limited multi-network phone selection, I have to have a multi-network PLAN ($$) to get the original coverage I once had. So, it seems the "Nation" plan isn't what it used to be when you look at the actual coverage or what more you would have to spend to get that original coverage. Although GSM sounds great, it seems to have shrunk my covered area. Am I seeing that right? -Gregg I have a plan like yours and nothing out there compares to them for the price. Most don't combine free nationwide roaming and free long distance. You may get a few more minutes though ,but at the expense of nationwide roaming. And if you don't get a gait phone I don't think you can use your old plan. Gsm plans mostly only have free roaming on Cingular system last I saw. And plan on being without any service in many rural areas for some time to come with a gsm only phone. > Thanks for the info. I fine-tuned the questions. > [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > > -Gregg I appreciate your input. I currently do have a GAIT phone. It's an Ericsson T62u and the most horrible phone I've ever witnessed. Even the dozen users of the same phone I've ran into feel the same way. It drops calls, is difficult to end them, has a short life battery, the light has gone out, and the sound is terrible along with the reception. And it's brand new. My other phones with Cingular were not like that. Besides having to use such a phone, the other problem is simply having a GAIT phone is not enough. I would have to renew for a more expensive multi-network plan that would allow my multi-network phone to use both networks so I would then have the large coverage area I had in the beginning. On the other hand, if I renew for the Nation GSM plan (single network), which is about the same price as my current "Nation" plan, my GAIT phone would only pick up GSM towers, which is about half the area coverage as my original "Nation" plan. But if I simply keep what I have and don't renew at all, my GAIT phone will be just like having a Digital phone, in that it will only pick up Digital towers, which are on the decrease.. At least that's what Cingular said. So, to keep the SAME free-roaming area (Nation) I will have to use a substandard phone and re-commit under contract to a more expensive plan. Is that what you had to do? -Gregg > I have a plan like yours and nothing out there compares to them for the > price. Most don't combine free nationwide roaming and free long distance. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > saw. And plan on being without any service in many rural areas for some time > to come with a gsm only phone. > I appreciate your input. I currently do have a GAIT phone. It's an Ericsson > T62u and the most horrible phone I've ever witnessed. Even the dozen users [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > -Gregg No,No I have the same plan and bought a Nokia 6340i gait phone. NOTHING in my nation plan changed. You can use GSM or TDMA on the plan. I didn't have to commit to anything. Exactly the same plan kept with a new phone and the added benefit of gsm. You don't have to add years either unless you want the phone for free or a discount depending on the length of time you want to extend your contract to bring down the price if bought from Cingular. Gregg, First of all, when you refer to "PCS" are you referring to Sprint? Don't get caught up with the tricks some carriers pull with terminology. Despite what Sprint would like you to believe "PCS" simply refers to "cellular" service in the 1800/1900 mhz band instead of the 800 mhz band. Cingular and ATTWS are now using PCS frequencies in many areas. Sound quality depends on a lot of things including quality equipment, both phones and cells. The last time I used a Sprint phone in the DFW area it sounded worse than Cingular "cellular" in the analog only days. Other areas may be better but don't fall for the hype. (Off soap box-- sorry but that TV commercial is one of the worst examples of "just short of illegal" misleading ads you can find.) > My bad. I was actually referring to a speaker phone used in my house, not so > much in the car. I work with computer programs and need my hands free as I > speak to clients. Maybe an car kit would work? I don't care about multiple > people being able to speak into the phone... I just need my hands free. Is > there such a system that can be hooked into a phone for hands-free speaking? > I don't want to push a button to speak. I scanned the phones under your zip code and nothing seemed to list speaker phone ability but several of those I could have sworn have speaker phones. Yep--Siemens S56 and Nokia 6800 do and maybe some of the others. You may have to go to the manufacturer website for sure. Also go to http://www.phonescoop.com/ and use the phone finder application. A few other options: 1) Headset. Wired or Bluetooth (using builtin Bluetooth if the phone has it or by using an adapter plugged into the phone's headset jack). A lot clearer, on both ends, than any speakerphone I've ever used. 2) A carkit, either the phone manufacturer's model or a 3rd party, could be used in the house using a 12vt power supply. Some use the phones antenna--some expect an external antenna--for those either use a real external antenna or a "rubber ducky" model attached directly to the connector. 3) Devices such as CellSocket (cellsocket.com). You drop the cell phone into the desktop holder and any landline phone(s) plugged into the RJ11 socket can be used for incoming and outgoing calls over the cell phone. You could then use any landline phone you wanted--speaker phone, cordless, whatever. Some models use the cell phone's antenna--some have a their own antenna or connection to an external antenna. With a little rewiring, you could have every phone in the house using the cellular. Not all phones are supported of course but there are quite a few. > > Only a very few Cingular markets have not converted to GSM yet. And where > > they have not converted, you roam on other GSM carriers (AWS or T Mobile). [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > they may not be covered. But you may have trouble finding any coverage at > > all in these locations. "have yet to travel to a location that does not have GSM" and "some very remote locations they may not be covered" WOW! YMMV--a LOT. Guess this person doesn't travel anywhere but large cities and Interstate highways. See next comment. > This is the most confusing issue of all for me. Cingular lists a Nation GSM > 500, which requires a more modern GSM phone but seems to shrink the covered [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > a cellular paper weight in my hand? Last I spoke to Cingular they said I'd > have a paper weight. You better believe it shrunk. Your old plan was TDMA/AMPS. The old map included both Cingular sites plus all the sites for all other carriers that Cingular had roaming agreements for. What places that didn't have TDMA almost certainly had AMPS. So basically, the entire US down to the probably 95% of remote rural areas was covered through roaming. The Nation GSM plan is GSM only--no TDMA, no AMPS. The map still shows Cingular sites plus all roaming partners. Now that Cingular and ATTWS has added GSM the map is a lot bigger than it was a few months ago. But it's still missing a large chunk of the country because there is NO GSM there. Many (most? all?) small carriers have NOT converted to GSM. I saw a time-line projection a month or so ago that estimated it would take 2-3 YEARS to physically convert all those carriers--IF they started NOW. And some if not most of those carriers haven't even begun the planning stage. And some may not convert AT ALL. Unless they 1) cannot get TDMA/AMPS phones for their own customers, 2) loss of revenue from Cingular/ATTWS roamers is major, or 3) Cing/ATT turns off TDMA support and *their* customers start complaining about lack of roamer ability in C/ATT areas, they are not going to be in any rush to spend millions to convert--THEY don't have Cing/ATT's primary reason to convert--need for expanded capacity. "do I have a cellular paper weight in my hand"? YEP. If you have a GSM only phone and you are in the light or medium yellow areas of the Cingular Nation GSM map--there is NO GSM to roam onto--i.e. paper weight. And judging from Texas on that map, I'd say a lot of the orange "have service" area is, shall we say, optimistic? "Licensed area" versus "yes it's there" is a big difference. > However, Cingular offers a Nation 500 plan that is more like my original > area (http://tinyurl.com/z0ll), but it requires a multi-network phone (And > there are only two phones and they are cheapies at that. One is horrible.). > But it gets worse. Even with a limited multi-network phone selection, I have > to have a multi-network PLAN ($$) to get the original coverage I once had. The "solution". Yes, the Cingular Nation multi-network GAIT plan is basically the exact same area your old plan covered. GSM+TDMA+AMPS. Back to basically the entire country. Should be at least the same digital coverage--might even be a bit more if Cingular/ATTWS has converted some analog-only sites during the conversion and if there were any areas with T-Mobile GSM but no TDMA. There for a while you couldn't even get a Nation plan with nights and weekend minutes. Nice to have those back. And the rates are not that far from the old ones. The Nokia 6340i is hardly a "cheapie". I've been very pleased with it. Sound quality and signal-pulling ability has been excellent. With the exception of a powering off problem some users have--probably due to slight variations in quality control on the battery packs--most users here have also been happy with the phone. It may not have a camera-- right. It doesn't have GPRS but data is possible over CSD--fast enough for what I do anyway. (CellSocket does NOT have a model for it yet-- something changed and the old 5000/6000 series model won't work-- bummer--they're working on it.) According to the "experts" the 6340i and the T62u are the only GAIT phones to be made. *I* predict that won't be the case. Two to three YEARS before GSM coverage even approaches true "nationwide"--that's too long. Consumer demand for more GAIT choices will become too much and more models will appear. There are a LOT of people out there who needs real nationwide coverage--they will wake up to the problem when it comes time to change phones--like you just did. Also, if it looks like Cingular and ATTWS are really going to turn off their TDMA, those small carriers will also start to offer GAIT phones to their customers as a method for them to roam on Cing/ATT. GAIT *WILL* be around for awhile. > So, it seems the "Nation" plan isn't what it used to be when you look at the > actual coverage or what more you would have to spend to get that original > coverage. Although GSM sounds great, it seems to have shrunk my covered > area. > > Am I seeing that right? YEP, good eyes.  SignatureJud Dallas TX USA > First of all, when you refer to "PCS" are you referring to Sprint? Yes. It's the only PCS I've experienced. When I had a signal, it was much clearer than my BellSouth (now Cingular) account. That's all I remember about it. > Don't get caught up with the tricks some carriers pull with terminology. > Despite what Sprint would like you to believe "PCS" simply refers to > "cellular" service in the 1800/1900 mhz band instead of the 800 mhz > band. I didn't know that. Thanks. > Cingular and ATTWS are now using PCS frequencies in many areas. > Sound quality depends on a lot of things including quality equipment, > both phones and cells. The last time I used a Sprint phone in the DFW > area it sounded worse than Cingular "cellular" in the analog only days. Interesting. So, I shouldn't gage my one experience of PCS in one area as being a model. > Siemens S56 and Nokia 6800 do and maybe some of > the others. You may have to go to the manufacturer website for sure. > Also go to http://www.phonescoop.com/ and use the phone finder > application. Sorry. I missed those. Thanks for doing the research for me. But I think I've led myself astray. Really all I want is a hands-free phone once I connect to a person. A speaker phone, on the other hand, is more valuable for multiple people to speak into the phone. That's not what I need. So, if there is an attachment, maybe, that can allow me to speak and hear the other person without using my hands would suffice nicely. > A few other options: Excellent suggestions. I will look into them. Thanks. > You better believe it shrunk. Your old plan was TDMA/AMPS. The old map > included both Cingular sites plus all the sites for all other carriers > that Cingular had roaming agreements for. What places that didn't have > TDMA almost certainly had AMPS. So basically, the entire US down to the > probably 95% of remote rural areas was covered through roaming. Thank you for confirming that in plain English. I have gotten so much double-talk on that issue I was starting to go nuts. > There for a while you couldn't even get a Nation plan with nights and > weekend minutes. Nice to have those back. And the rates are not that > far from the old ones. I agree on the price issue. In fact, they are now throwing in rollover minutes which makes it more attractive. I'm happy about that. > The Nokia 6340i is hardly a "cheapie". I didn't mean to insult the Nokia 6340i and appologize for doing so. I was just frustrated that I was forced to choose between that and another phone and was basically barred from some of the cooler (and more expensive) phones. Let me make it clear, though, that although I can appreciate some of the newer features on phones, reception, long battery life, sound, and ease of use is my most important concerns in a phone. I don't care about cameras, email, or internet on my phone, and I don't care about full color screens either. For what I like, I admit, the Nokia would have faired well. But for some dumb reason, I opted for the Sony Ericsson and have regreted it since. That, after being a Nokia man all my life too. Jeez. > According to the "experts" the 6340i and the T62u are the only GAIT > phones to be made. *I* predict that won't be the case. Two to three > YEARS before GSM coverage even approaches true "nationwide"--that's too > long. Consumer demand for more GAIT choices will become too much and > more models will appear. I hope big time you are right. <g> > There are a LOT of people out there who needs > real nationwide coverage--they will wake up to the problem when it comes > time to change phones--like you just did. And what a rude awakening it was. <g> Keeping with the analogy, there were some telling me to go back to sleep and there was no reason to wake up and look at this issue. But I couldn't rest on the topic and what's worse, not being educated in this area, it was very difficult to verbalize the concerns I saw. I'm glad you understood what I was asking. Again, Jud, thanks for giving it to me straight. With the facts plainly laid out, I can make a decision and feel good about it. I spent over an hour on the phone with a Cingular rep and came away more confused than clarified. Now I can see what I need to do. It appears I need to recommit to the "National" multi-network plan and dump this T62u for the Nokia 6340i. If more full-featured GAIT phones come out down the road, I can always purchase another. Does that sound like a plan? -Gregg >Despite what Sprint would like you to believe "PCS" simply refers to >"cellular" service in the 1800/1900 mhz band instead of the 800 mhz >band. 1800 is not PCS. 1800 is DCS and is used outside of North America for mobile communications. 1800 is not used in North America for mobile communications. It is used in Brazil and elsewhere. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To send an email reply send to GSMthemobilestandard (@) yahoo.com >However, Cingular offers a Nation 500 plan that is more like my original >area (http://tinyurl.com/z0ll), but it requires a multi-network phone (And >there are only two phones and they are cheapies at that. One is horrible.). The Nokia 6340i and the Sony t62u, I guess. Which do you think is horrible, and why? -- <> Forgiveness is the price you have to pay for freedom. <> - "Tom" -- Jack Hamilton jfh@acm.org I have not used the Nokia 6340i, but have had many Nokia's and was pleased with them. Unfortunately, I chose the Sony T62u this last go around. My complaints about it are on record with Cingular, but here's a snip: As soon as the first few days I noticed it dropping calls like I never knew a cell phone could - even in places where my Nokia (r.i.p.) always held calls fine just days before. I also had it happen where it wouldn't disconnect from calls and I had to power the phone off. The screen light works only when it wants to, which seems to be only when I don't need it like in direct sunlight. When it does work, it seems to be on half power, barely a glow. I've never seen a battery get sucked down so fast - even when I don't make calls. My wife's Nokia with a full color screen and lots of battery burning features lasts much longer and recharging isn't a big concern for her whereas I have to think about it constantly. The sound (clarity) and reception (broken voice/fade) is terrible. I often dread talking on it and many clients had adverse comments as soon as I started using it. I won't talk about the menu and key systems as those are very subjective, but I will say I much prefer the Nokia's systems for many reasons. I know user's experiences will vary, but every person, without exception, I have talked to in person who has the T62u felt the same. Maybe it's something in my area that makes the phone so terrible, I don't know. I wish I would have done more research before landing on this phone. But after my Nokia broke (my fault) I had to get an insurance replacement quickly for the sake of my business. Looking back, it wouldn't have hurt to have taken a few days to research. I always regret it when I don't do that. But... that's why I'm here now. <lol> -Gregg > >However, Cingular offers a Nation 500 plan that is more like my original > >area (http://tinyurl.com/z0ll), but it requires a multi-network phone (And [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Jack Hamilton > jfh@acm.org I think this is what you need. Click on this link and scroll down to the DCH-12K. It's a combo charger and speaker phone, and it works great. We use ours when we are talking to the relatives in Wisconsin instead of passing the phone around and all asking the same questions three times. Its a little pricey from Nokia, but I picked one up on eBay for a song. It will work with the 6340i, 5165, 6161I, and several other phones. There is a page of them on eBay right now. Grab one! As far as your plan, if you wanted to get a phone, I would recommend the 6340i, and you should go with the Nation Plan. DO NOT let them sign you up to a GSM only plan. Look at the maps, you will see why. You did not say what your current plan was costing you. If you want to keep it as is, find a good 5165 Nokia and keep it. Good luck. www.nokiausa.com/nokia_accessories/chargers -- Michael J. MacMahon Captain (ret.) KCPD Golf is not a matter of Life or Death; it is MUCH more important than that. > Hi, folks. I've been with what is now Cingular for many years and can > renew or drop out and move to another service. I definately need a new [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Thanks. > I think this is what you need. Click on this link and scroll down to the > DCH-12K. Thanks, Michael. That lets me off the hook (as it were). I was concerened with my next phone having speaker phone capabilities built into it, which limited the possiblilities. With gadgets like that, I can be more open with my selection. > As far as your plan, if you wanted to get a phone, I would recommend the > 6340i, and you should go with the Nation Plan. DO NOT let them sign you up > to a GSM only plan. Look at the maps, you will see why. Insisting on seeing a map is what started my concern. Then a lot of mumbo-jumbo followed which confused me. Cingular seemed to want me to go GSM, but it didn't feel right. Now that I look at it myself, the multi-network plan is not much more than my current plan, plus I get more N/W minutes and rollover. So, it's a pretty good deal, actually. I just dread going back into another contract, but oh well. > If you want to keep it as is, find a good > 5165 Nokia and keep it. Is that a GAIT phone? If so, wouldn't I still need a multi-network plan to pick up all the towers? -Gregg > > As far as your plan, if you wanted to get a phone, I would recommend the > > 6340i, and you should go with the Nation Plan. DO NOT let them sign you up [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Is that a GAIT phone? If so, wouldn't I still need a multi-network plan to > pick up all the towers? The 5165 is not GAIT -- it is (or rather was - not on the current model list at nokia.com) a tri-mode TDMA/amps. He was recommending a model if you kept your current TDMA/amps plan. One thing I forgot to mention, if you get the GAIT plan and a GAIT phone such as the Nokia 6340i, you can obtain an unlocked GSM-only phone with all the bells and whistles -- then WHEN YOU'RE IN A GSM AREA pull the Sim card out of the 6340i and put it in the GSM phone and that phone will work without further contact with cs. At least others have reported it to work--I haven't actually tried it yet although if the perfect pda/phone came out I might. I had forgotten about that dch-12k. It might be the perfect thing but do verify it works for the 6340i since it only lists the 6360 and 6310i. And it doesn't mention charging LitIon batteries. Also a google search shows prices all over the board - I saw $25 (at several sites), $49, even $12.88 at http://gadgetfreeks.com/nodchadechki.html Here's a slightly different model from another mfgr: http://www.discountcell.com/cellular/bb,asp,e_N6340i,pi_H59099,1c,p.htm SignatureJud Dallas TX USA The DCH-12K does work w/6340i, thats the phone I use in it. -- Michael J. MacMahon Captain (ret.) KCPD Golf is not a matter of Life or Death; it is MUCH more important than that. > > > As far as your plan, if you wanted to get a phone, I would recommend the > > > 6340i, and you should go with the Nation Plan. DO NOT let them sign you up [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Jud > Dallas TX USA I have been with Cingular Nation 250 plan for a long time - with no roaming and LD charges. I like the plan. I have driven to many cities and get coverage all/most of the time. The voice quality varies, but coverage is important to me. They don't have any comparable Nation plans (minutes & price). They want people to move to GSM (spotty coverage) and other plans. I don't know abt these plans. BTW, how much are you paying for Nation 500 (includes NW minutes ?) |
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