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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Cingular / January 2004

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Differing answers from customer service. What's the right answer?

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Rich Badaracco - 07 Jan 2004 14:10 GMT
I currently have the Nation plan with the Nokia 6340I GAIT  phone. As I
recall some others have picked up on the fact that the coverage maps for the
Nation plan with a GSM phone changed recently and is identical to the
coverage area for the GAIT phone. The first CS rep I called told me that the
coverage areas were not the same and was apparently looking at the GSM map
that I would have expected to see which had coverage only around major
highways and with major holes in coverage. The second rep I called said that
the GSM coverage map was correct and that they had agreements roam on other
carriers GSM networks the same way we do for the GAIT Nation plan. She also
said that the GSM nation plan would require the purchase of a different
phone which was GSM only. That didn't seem logical to me. So what's the real
story?
Jud Hardcastle - 07 Jan 2004 15:22 GMT
> I currently have the Nation plan with the Nokia 6340I GAIT  phone. As I
> recall some others have picked up on the fact that the coverage maps for the
> Nation plan with a GSM phone changed recently and is identical to the
> coverage area for the GAIT phone.

Huh?  Bull.  If they're the same then someone screwed up.  As of right
now this is the coverage map for the "Nation GSM" plan:

http://onlinestore.cingular.com/html/Maps/Central_Texas/nation_GSM_map_6
_30_03.htm
http://tinyurl.com/38urc

and this is the coverage map for the "Nation" Multi-Network Phone (GAIT)
plan:

http://onlinestore.cingular.com/html/Maps/Central_Texas/nation_GAIT_map_
6_30_03.htm
http://tinyurl.com/286gg

Hardly identical.  The Nation GAIT plan includes all GSM, TDMA, and AMPS
- Cingular and Roaming Partners - giving basically the entire country.  
The Nation GSM plan is GSM only - again Cingular and Roaming Partners
but GSM coverage only - and therefore only 1/3 of the coverage because
so few other carriers have gone GSM.  It's physically impossible for the
two maps to even be close much less identical.  

Now if you were using a GSM only phone, or a 6340i that HADN'T BEEN
ACTIVATED FOR TDMA/AMPS, on the Nation GAIT plan the effect would be the
same as the Nation GSM plan.  Bottom line: YOU CAN'T USE GSM IF IT
PHYSICALLY ISN'T THERE.

If and when they release a GSM/AMPS phone the coverage for that plan
will "look" be the same as the GAIT plan since the phone could roam on
analog in those areas that don't have GSM - but without the benefits of
digital.  Better have lots of batteries.

> The first CS rep I called told me that the
> coverage areas were not the same and was apparently looking at the GSM map
> that I would have expected to see which had coverage only around major
> highways and with major holes in coverage. The second rep I called said that
> the GSM coverage map was correct and that they had agreements roam on other
> carriers GSM networks the same way we do for the GAIT Nation plan.

1st rep right - 2nd rep clueless.  Cingular DOES have agreements to roam
on other carriers GSM networks - BUT the Nation GSM map ALREADY reflects
that.  The problem is that there are very few carriers other than
Cingular, ATTWS, and T-Mobile doing GSM (and Cingular and ATTWS overlap
in many areas and hence don't gain a lot of coverage there).  That will
probably improve gradually but it will take a couple of years at least
for GSM coverage to approach current TDMA/AMPS coverage.  It may NEVER
get there since some carriers may not upgrade to GSM at all.  They don't
have the capacity problem the big guys have so the only driving force is
going to be roaming compatability--both directions--and the dwindling
supply of TDMA/AMPS phones.  They could choose to go CDMA or even to
wait for the next generation W-CDMA or whatever.

Signature

Jud
Dallas TX USA

Rich Badaracco - 07 Jan 2004 16:40 GMT
This is the coverage map that is online now for the South Carolina area.
http://onlinestore.cingular.com/html/Maps/Southeast/DCS/nation_GSM_map_6_30_03.htm
http://tinyurl.com/2fmy8

As you can see the map for the Southeast is identical to the GAIT map and
clearly indicates that it is for a GSM only phone. And that's the reason I'm
sooooooo confused. Sure wish their was a way to get Cingular to correct the
map or share with this group that they have magically added GSM coverage for
the entire country (which I would need to switch from the GAIT plan).

> > I currently have the Nation plan with the Nokia 6340I GAIT  phone. As I
> > recall some others have picked up on the fact that the coverage maps for the
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> supply of TDMA/AMPS phones.  They could choose to go CDMA or even to
> wait for the next generation W-CDMA or whatever.
Jud Hardcastle - 07 Jan 2004 18:08 GMT
> This is the coverage map that is online now for the South Carolina area.
> http://onlinestore.cingular.com/html/Maps/Southeast/DCS/nation_GSM_map_6_30_03.htm
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> clearly indicates that it is for a GSM only phone. And that's the reason I'm
> sooooooo confused.

Yep, that map's clearly mislabeled.  Don't blame you for being confused.  
But at least YOU caught the fact that something didn't add up.  Think
about all the poor slobs that fall for that and end up without coverage
where they need it -- and who may not find out until too late.

Clueless sales reps are one thing but CS reps should know better and so
should the person who put that page together.  I'd like to believe it
was done accidently or out of ignorance and not to deliberately fool
people.  

I spot checked a few and N & S Carolina seem to have the bad maps but
surrounding states have the correct ones.  HOWEVER, the Carolina ones
have the newest date at the bottom.  I sure hope it's a local error and
not about to roll out nationwide or there is going to be some PxxxxD off
people over the next few months.  *I* would consider such fraud but the
"based on current planning assumptions" disclaimer is so broad it might
cover their a.s.

> Sure wish their was a way to get Cingular to correct the
> map or share with this group that they have magically added GSM coverage for
> the entire country (which I would need to switch from the GAIT plan).

"Magic" it would have to be for GSM to appear in some of those areas.
Signature

Jud
Dallas TX USA

Chris Russell - 08 Jan 2004 00:45 GMT
I just went online and checked the maps for both N & S Carolina and they are
correct.  The GSM nation map is the normal skimpy one and the GAIT nation
map is the very full one of the 'whole' country.  The best way is to go to
the pull-down rate plans and choose maps.  Then you can click on the correct
plan "National GSM" and 'National" (GAIT) then click on the hyperlink for
the map.  They are not mixed up or incorrect.

Chris
Please respond in the newsgroup

> This is the coverage map that is online now for the South Carolina area.

http://onlinestore.cingular.com/html/Maps/Southeast/DCS/nation_GSM_map_6_30_03.htm
> http://tinyurl.com/2fmy8
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> map or share with this group that they have magically added GSM coverage for
> the entire country (which I would need to switch from the GAIT plan).
Rich Badaracco - 08 Jan 2004 13:37 GMT
Hi Chris,
I was going to the maps through the pull downs. I finally got customer
service yesterday to accept the fact that the maps were incorrect for the
Southeast and they obviously updated them. You are right the correct maps
are now being displayed.

> I just went online and checked the maps for both N & S Carolina and they are
> correct.  The GSM nation map is the normal skimpy one and the GAIT nation
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> > This is the coverage map that is online now for the South Carolina area.

http://onlinestore.cingular.com/html/Maps/Southeast/DCS/nation_GSM_map_6_30_03.htm
> > http://tinyurl.com/2fmy8
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> for
> > the entire country (which I would need to switch from the GAIT plan).
Jud Hardcastle - 08 Jan 2004 13:48 GMT
> I just went online and checked the maps for both N & S Carolina and they are
> correct.  The GSM nation map is the normal skimpy one and the GAIT nation
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Chris
> Please respond in the newsgroup

Chris.  That's what I DID yesterday and they were definately wrong--
today they have new ones dated 1/04.  Problem solved I guess.

In fact the new one is better than the old gsm-only map--it depicts
850/1900 dual band vrs 1900 single band which might be of benefit to
some users.

Signature

Jud
Dallas TX USA

Chris Russell - 08 Jan 2004 21:46 GMT
I've seen that map for GSM in other markets online for about the last month.

Chris
Please respond in the newsgroup

> > I just went online and checked the maps for both N & S Carolina and they are
> > correct.  The GSM nation map is the normal skimpy one and the GAIT nation
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> 850/1900 dual band vrs 1900 single band which might be of benefit to
> some users.
Jer - 08 Jan 2004 04:34 GMT
[....]
> If and when they release a GSM/AMPS phone the coverage for that plan
> will "look" be the same as the GAIT plan since the phone could roam on
> analog in those areas that don't have GSM - but without the benefits of
> digital.  Better have lots of batteries.

I don't mean to be a pain here, but in some areas, assuming the ability
to roam on analog may be a stretch, considering Cingular only has a
couple of analog radios in most sites.  One can have a perfectly good
AMPS-capable phone near an AMPS-capable site, but if those radios are in
use, roaming on AMPS will be a dream.  Just a thought.

[....]

Signature

jer  email reply - I am not a 'ten'  ICQ = 35253273
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know."  -- Richard Wilbur

Chris Russell - 07 Jan 2004 16:13 GMT
Don't worry, you still have the same coverage country-wide as you had before
you called CS.  Jud's maps are the correct ones including the small area of
GSM future listing (mostly MT, WY, ND, SD, NE) from the Cingular/ATTWS
build-out agreement.  The GSM coverage area is much smaller and will
continue to be much smaller for many years to come.  The GSM Nation Plan
does require a GSM-only phone.  They will not let you use your 6340i on a
GSM-only plan.  The larger GAIT plan that you now have requires the Nokia
6340i or SE t62u phone.  They both will be using the GSM areas on the GSM
Nation Plan map and other TDMA/AMPS systems on the GAIT map.

Chris
Please respond in the newsgroup

> I currently have the Nation plan with the Nokia 6340I GAIT  phone. As I
> recall some others have picked up on the fact that the coverage maps for the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> phone which was GSM only. That didn't seem logical to me. So what's the real
> story?
kf4qzj - 26 Jan 2004 01:12 GMT
>I currently have the Nation plan with the Nokia 6340I GAIT  phone. As I
>recall some others have picked up on the fact that the coverage maps for the
>Nation plan with a GSM phone changed recently and is identical to the
>coverage area for the GAIT phone.

YES

The first CS rep I called told me that the
>coverage areas were not the same and was apparently looking at the GSM map
>that I would have expected to see which had coverage only around major
>highways and with major holes in coverage.

NO

The second rep I called said that
>the GSM coverage map was correct and that they had agreements roam on other
>carriers GSM networks the same way we do for the GAIT Nation plan. She also
>said that the GSM nation plan would require the purchase of a different
>phone which was GSM only.

YES

That didn't seem logical to me. So what's the real
>story?

GSM rates require GSM phones, GAIT uses both systems but bills as a
TDMA rate.
 
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