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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Fido / December 2004

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Remember the MIKE network ?

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JF Mezei - 13 Dec 2004 05:20 GMT
Way back when, Clearnet was operated by the same company that also operated
the IDEN technology network MIKE (similar to Nextel).

Does anyone know if this is still in operation ?

With Sprint poised to buy Nextel, and with talk of push-to-talk being
implemented on CDMA phones, is it fair to assume that IDEN is next to
officially dead ?
Dan - 13 Dec 2004 06:12 GMT
If what is still in operation? Telus has the Mike network (IDEN)
> Way back when, Clearnet was operated by the same company that also
> operated
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> implemented on CDMA phones, is it fair to assume that IDEN is next to
> officially dead ?
- 13 Dec 2004 07:13 GMT
ummm.. http://www.telusmobility.com/on/mike/index.shtml

> If what is still in operation? Telus has the Mike network (IDEN)
>> Way back when, Clearnet was operated by the same company that also
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> implemented on CDMA phones, is it fair to assume that IDEN is next to
>> officially dead ?
twtwwtin - 13 Dec 2004 18:32 GMT
Bell Mobility is joining the fray with PTT next spring.

They will, I suppose, be using the existing CDMA network.

Another carrier to rattle 'The Telus Cage' can only be good for the end
user.

Maybe BM will buy out Telus following along the lines of Sprint and Nextel.

Still waiting for Virgin to show in the Canadian market place.

As a point of interest where does Fido figure in the thread?

> Way back when, Clearnet was operated by the same company that also
> operated
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> implemented on CDMA phones, is it fair to assume that IDEN is next to
> officially dead ?
cd - 14 Dec 2004 00:55 GMT
Mike (iDEN) is here to stay, at least in canada.  cdma was no designed for
PTT purpose.

cd
> Bell Mobility is joining the fray with PTT next spring.
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>> implemented on CDMA phones, is it fair to assume that IDEN is next to
>> officially dead ?
Joseph - 14 Dec 2004 17:44 GMT
>Mike (iDEN) is here to stay, at least in canada.  cdma was no designed for
>PTT purpose.

Maybe it was "no" designed for PTT purposes, but it's being used on
some networks.

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JF Mezei - 14 Dec 2004 01:28 GMT
> As a point of interest where does Fido figure in the thread?

If, because of Sprint buying Nextel, and PTT coming to CDMA networks, it means
the end of IDEN, it also means the end of MIKE.

So the canadian marketplace, in light of the disapearance of Fido and possibly
Mike, will be even more concentrated than originally thought.
Joseph - 14 Dec 2004 17:45 GMT
>> As a point of interest where does Fido figure in the thread?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>So the canadian marketplace, in light of the disapearance of Fido and possibly
>Mike, will be even more concentrated than originally thought.

Why do you assume that Mike and iDen networks are going away because
of the Nextel Sprint PCS merger?  Nextel's direct connect feature is
one of the things that is attractive about them for businesses
especially trades.
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- 14 Dec 2004 21:26 GMT
>>> As a point of interest where does Fido figure in the thread?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> one of the things that is attractive about them for businesses
> especially trades.

Over time (and due to economies of scale) you would naturally see an
amalgamation of technologies to one consistant platform (iden and CDMA wont
necessarily cohabitate). Telus would then be effectively left out in the
cold with Mike (they are not the largest customer to Motorola).
- 14 Dec 2004 23:58 GMT
December 14, 2004
Motorola May Lose Big Customer if Nextel Merges
By KEN BELSON

print's negotiations to buy Nextel have ignited fears that Motorola will
lose its exclusive deal to supply phones and equipment to Nextel.

That loss could mean gains for Lucent Technologies and Nortel Networks,
which are the main suppliers of wireless network equipment to Sprint.

The possibility of a union of Sprint and Nextel is "a bonanza" for Lucent
and Nortel, said Susan Kalla, an analyst who covers the companies for
Friedman, Billings, Ramsey.

If a merger occurs, she and other industry analysts say, Sprint will induce
Nextel's more than 15 million subscribers to turn in their handsets, which
use an unconventional technology called iDEN.

Sprint is likely to encourage these customers to buy its handsets, which use
a more common technology known as C.D.M.A., or code division multiple
access. And to handle the influx of millions of extra customers, Sprint will
probably have to order more equipment from Lucent, Nortel and other vendors.

Ms. Kalla said she expected Sprint to take as long as five years to shut
down the iDEN network, giving it time to expand its C.D.M.A. network without
pressuring Nextel customers to swap handsets.

Since Thursday, when reports that Sprint and Nextel were in merger talks
first surfaced, investors have focused most on the potential damage to
Motorola. Its shares plunged 7.8 percent on Friday, though they rebounded
yesterday.

Shares of Lucent and Nortel, by contrast, have been little changed. This is
because the benefits of a Sprint-Nextel union are "just too subtle of a
story, and we're not talking about gobs of money," said Brett Azuma, the
head of research at RHK, a telecommunications consultant.

How Sprint ends up persuading Nextel's customers to switch to C.D.M.A.
phones will help determine how large a windfall Lucent and Nortel might see,
and how soon. Companies in such situations are careful not to set hard
deadlines for cutting off older services because customers may rebel by
switching carriers. At the same time, it becomes expensive to continue
operating a network that is used by few customers.

As has been the case in other mergers, Sprint would most likely offer
customers with iDEN handsets financial incentives to give up their phones
when their contracts come up for renewal, analysts say. Sprint may subsidize
the price of the new phones and offer discounted service plans, especially
for businesses with many phones on their accounts.

Steve Levy, an analyst at Lehman Brothers, says he expects former Nextel
customers to begin shifting to C.D.M.A. phones in 2006 if a Sprint deal goes
through.

Sprint could also concentrate on improving its "push to talk" service, which
allows a cellphone to double as a walkie-talkie. This service has proved
immensely popular at Nextel. As of June 2004, Sprint had signed up 360,000
subscribers for its version, though its customers, unlike those of Nextel,
have to pay a $5 monthly fee.

No matter how Sprint chooses to handle these issues, it ultimately would
need more capacity to handle the extra customers. Nextel's 15.3 million
subscribers would make up about 40 percent of the merged company's customer
base. Lucent and Nortel have not been able to provide equipment to serve
those customers because of Motorola's exclusive agreement.

Given all the unanswered questions, industry analysts say it is hard to
predict how much money Sprint will have to spend to expand and transform its
network. The company last week said it would invest $3 billion during the
next three years to enhance its network to provide high-speed Internet
access.

Sprint could scale back these plans and instead use the savings to expand
the capacity of its current digital network, or explore technology that
allows for high-speed data connections and voice service on one network.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/14/technology/14phone.html?oref=login
>>>> As a point of interest where does Fido figure in the thread?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> necessarily cohabitate). Telus would then be effectively left out in the
> cold with Mike (they are not the largest customer to Motorola).
Joseph - 15 Dec 2004 06:51 GMT
>Sprint is likely to encourage these customers to buy its handsets, which use
>a more common technology known as C.D.M.A., or code division multiple
>access. And to handle the influx of millions of extra customers, Sprint will
>probably have to order more equipment from Lucent, Nortel and other vendors.

Well, if they expect that they're going to have to work *really* hard
on having a CDMA PTT solution that works better than what's available
today.  CDMA PTT has much more latency in communications as compared
to the iDen network.  If Sprint expects former Nextel customers to
surrender their iDen handsets they'd better come up with something
better than they have now.  What they've got now will likely not be
acceptible to current Nextel customers who use direct connect PTT.

>Ms. Kalla said she expected Sprint to take as long as five years to shut
>down the iDEN network, giving it time to expand its C.D.M.A. network without
>pressuring Nextel customers to swap handsets.

As I said they'd better do some serious work on CDMA PTT before they
decide to disassemble the iDen network.  CDMA in its present form has
a lousy implementation of PTT.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
JF Mezei - 15 Dec 2004 08:25 GMT
> Well, if they expect that they're going to have to work *really* hard
> on having a CDMA PTT solution that works better than what's available
> today.

Does the current PTT implementation on CDMA had architectureal flaws that
can't be fixed ? Or is there a way to evolve the current protocol to get to to
have the same performance as Iden ?
Joseph - 16 Dec 2004 01:02 GMT
>> Well, if they expect that they're going to have to work *really* hard
>> on having a CDMA PTT solution that works better than what's available
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>can't be fixed ? Or is there a way to evolve the current protocol to get to to
>have the same performance as Iden ?

I'm not privvy to that information.  All I know is that present
implementations of PTT there's no comparison at all when you compare
it to direct connect with iDen.  There's too much latency for one
thing with the current implementation of PTT on CDMA.  They're either
going to have to fix that or they're going to have a hard time
convincing current Mike/Nextel subscribers to switch to the CDMA
implementation of PTT.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Joseph - 15 Dec 2004 06:47 GMT
>>>> As a point of interest where does Fido figure in the thread?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>necessarily cohabitate). Telus would then be effectively left out in the
>cold with Mike (they are not the largest customer to Motorola).

Other implementations of PTT on CDMA and GSM systems are no
substitution for the direct connect implementations as found on iDen
networks.  The trades especially like the direct connect PTT as it's
implemented in iDen.  CDMA PTT is a poor immitation.  And considering
that iDen handsets are almost 100% from Motorola I think you're
mistaken.

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DK - 13 Dec 2004 22:41 GMT
Still in operation? You're joking right?

The CDMA version of PTT's quality is close to crap in comparison to iDEN
technology. There are heavy time delays with the CDMA PTT ( approx 3s )
compared to iDEN ( under 1s)

iDEN will never go under. It is strong in the industrial market
> Way back when, Clearnet was operated by the same company that also
> operated
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> implemented on CDMA phones, is it fair to assume that IDEN is next to
> officially dead ?
DevilsPGD - 14 Dec 2004 03:49 GMT
>Still in operation? You're joking right?

Best network in existence in Canada as far as I'm concerned.  I can use
my Mike in the basement of my house, other TELUS phones don't even work
upstairs.

Signature

Nobody ever lost money underestimating the human intelligence.
-- P.T.Barnum

Deep - 14 Dec 2004 04:12 GMT
Going strong in construction, hospitality, security, etc...  the list
long...

Deep

> Still in operation? You're joking right?
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> > implemented on CDMA phones, is it fair to assume that IDEN is next to
> > officially dead ?
 
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