Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Fido / April 2004
Does Fido have MMS now?
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Brian G - 20 Apr 2004 01:32 GMT Hi all, just saw a Fido TV ad that said you can send pictures around the world. Is this referring to MMS?
Brian
Cellular Unlocker - 20 Apr 2004 06:56 GMT Yes. MMS is available from Fido as of April 20th, 2004. You may have to activate it in your account if you activated your line after February 2004. though.
CU
> Hi all, just saw a Fido TV ad that said you can send pictures around the > world. Is this referring to MMS? > > Brian repatch - 20 Apr 2004 15:20 GMT About firken time. How much are they charging for it? Highway robbery again?
> Yes. MMS is available from Fido as of April 20th, 2004. You may have to > activate it in your account if you activated your line after February 2004. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > > Brian The Photo Guy - 21 Apr 2004 01:54 GMT Free for first month I think then 25 cents per msg after that.
TPG.
> About firken time. How much are they charging for it? Highway robbery again? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > > > Brian repatch - 21 Apr 2004 04:20 GMT Hmm, not as bad as I thought, that's actually kinda reasonable, unless they limit it somehow. TTYL
> Free for first month I think then 25 cents per msg after that. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > > > > > > > Brian Super Dave - 21 Apr 2004 04:07 GMT Nothing Fido has ever done has been highway robbery.
> About firken time. How much are they charging for it? Highway robbery again? repatch - 21 Apr 2004 04:20 GMT Hehe, right, good joke there...
> Nothing Fido has ever done has been highway robbery. > > > About firken time. How much are they charging for it? Highway robbery > again? Pavel - 21 Apr 2004 06:39 GMT I don't know about that.....for one thing they have contracts now and their prices of phones have skyrocketed. Oh, let's not forget the $45 City Fido rate increase as well.
: Nothing Fido has ever done has been highway robbery. Super Dave - 22 Apr 2004 03:52 GMT City Fido went up 5 bux........wooooooo BIG DEAL. It's still a steal at the price! Contracts are OPTIONAL just like with everyone else. Handsets have gone up but nothing they have ever done is what I'd call "highway robbery" The previous poster has been whining for years, and considers a 1 cent increase to be a ripoff. Enough said!
I don't know about that.....for one thing they have contracts now and their prices of phones have skyrocketed. Oh, let's not forget the $45 City Fido rate increase as well.
: Nothing Fido has ever done has been highway robbery. Lubos Hrasko - 22 Apr 2004 04:17 GMT No kidding, my previous bills used to be in the $300 - $400 range with another provider. City Fido at $40 was a great deal, so at $45 it's only the difference of saving $350 or $345 per month! Other company's plans charge 50 bux per month for 500 minutes, Fido gives me 5000, who's guilty of highway robbery?
Cheers, Lubos
> City Fido went up 5 bux........wooooooo BIG DEAL. It's still a steal at the > price! Contracts are OPTIONAL just like with everyone else. Handsets have [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > : Nothing Fido has ever done has been highway robbery. JF Mezei - 22 Apr 2004 06:49 GMT > No kidding, my previous bills used to be in the $300 - $400 range with > another provider. City Fido at $40 was a great deal, so at $45 it's only the > difference of saving $350 or $345 per month! Other company's plans charge 50 > bux per month for 500 minutes, Fido gives me 5000, who's guilty of highway > robbery? But is your bill $45.00 , or is it $45.00 plus some unavoidable 6.95 charge ?
Also, it is likely that FIDO will want its CityFido to eventually start to buy added features such as GPRS etc.
What it not clear to me is whether CityFido is actually sustainable in the long term with large number of sucscribers, or whether this is actually a plan to raise ARPU and reduce churn which is what (and some say "all") Bay Street is looking at.
Back to the MMS thing, I am glad that FIDO is actually advertising "leading edge" stuff that it putting it ahead of its competitors. This is a first since the very early days of Fido in Montreal where it did brag about having more features than the legacy analogue suppliers back then.
Lubos Hrasko - 22 Apr 2004 16:02 GMT > But is your bill $45.00 , or is it $45.00 plus some unavoidable 6.95 charge ? There is no System Licensing Fee with CityFido. I've had the $40 plan since CityFide came out, and although I generally don't sign contracts - this one was too good to pass up. By signing up for two years I have loced my account into the original monthly charge for two years.
> > No kidding, my previous bills used to be in the $300 - $400 range with > > another provider. City Fido at $40 was a great deal, so at $45 it's only the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > the very early days of Fido in Montreal where it did brag about having more > features than the legacy analogue suppliers back then. AndrewH - 22 Apr 2004 16:07 GMT The Cityfido is $45 plus PST and GST, it includes the access fees.
There are still services to be added, such as SMS and Data in my case. No different from Telus.
As for sustainability, I don't see any evidence it is a problem. What CityFido does is create concentrations of users, so that tower usage goes up. It also raises the income on remote towers as they now get 20 cents per minute outside the Cityfido area. That is better than my landline which does not work outside my home.
Fido is adding significant capacity in Vancouver, which shows it is successful. I am hoping the next financial quarter results give us more detail on the CityFido success.
I agree, Fido has always been significantly cheaper, its extras are cheaper, unlike Roger's and Telus where unpublished rates are often exorbitant, like international long distance.
Cityfido is a good deal for both sides from what I hear.
>>No kidding, my previous bills used to be in the $300 - $400 range with >>another provider. City Fido at $40 was a great deal, so at $45 it's only the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > the very early days of Fido in Montreal where it did brag about having more > features than the legacy analogue suppliers back then. JF Mezei - 22 Apr 2004 20:16 GMT > The Cityfido is $45 plus PST and GST, it includes the access fees. Thanks. Didn't know that. Fido has had deceptive advertising (not as bad as Air Canada though) so one never knows what the real total amount is for a package advertised at a certain monthly amount.
> As for sustainability, I don't see any evidence it is a problem. What > CityFido does is create concentrations of users, so that tower usage > goes up. What is not clear to me is to how many points on the Telus landline Fido connects to. If they funnel all calls through one Telus CO, then that is a problem. Lets say everyone in Vancouver were to switch to Fido. The Telus COs in suburbs would become unused, while the one CO to which Fido connects would crumble because it is as if all of Vancouver moved into the same neighbouhood.
So as long as CityFido is considered a "novelty", then they can probably adjust a CO's capacity to cope with it. But at one point, Telus will tell Fido "enough is enough" and will want Fido to start to split its network between multiple landline COs.
> Fido is adding significant capacity in Vancouver, which shows it is > successful. I am not so worried about air interface capacity. They can split cells and make full use of Microcell's allocated spectrum. My worry is with the landline network connection. So far, almost all the "complaints" we heard here seemed to point to Telus overload, not to a Microcell overload.
> Cityfido is a good deal for both sides from what I hear. For customers, yes.
But for Fido in the medium term, I am not so sure. Short term , it is good because it pleases Bay Street. But consider that CitiFido may end up costing a lot to Fido due the need to rapidly increase capacity in Vancouver, and they may divert previous money from improvements in other cities. Remember that when people talk more, they dont generate more revenus, but Fido has to spend money to increase capacity.
In the long term though, assuming Microcell becomes as profitable as a landline telco, then yeah, this will be good. Telcos make money because their infrastructure has been built up, paid for and customer growth is small/manageable. Eventually, Microcell will have reached its market share limit and won't need to grow (significantly) anymore and at that point, each $45 will be pure profit. It is getting to that point that is a big question mark.
AndrewH - 23 Apr 2004 03:42 GMT Thanks for your comments
>>The Cityfido is $45 plus PST and GST, it includes the access fees. > > Thanks. Didn't know that. Fido has had deceptive advertising (not as bad as > Air Canada though) so one never knows what the real total amount is for a > package advertised at a certain monthly amount. Still, in my opinion, more honest than all the competition. Look as the list of rates for and roaming in foreign countries, don't believe anybody else will give you those charges reliably.
>>As for sustainability, I don't see any evidence it is a problem. What >>CityFido does is create concentrations of users, so that tower usage [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in suburbs would become unused, while the one CO to which Fido connects would > crumble because it is as if all of Vancouver moved into the same neighbouhood. There is more than one connection point. Bigger problem is that Telus controlls the 'lookup tables' of phone numbers, and these have crashed several times. Fido is not allowed ot have their own backup, and mysteriously, it seems that every time there is a problem, Telus customers seem to get fixed first, making Fido look unreliable.
> So as long as CityFido is considered a "novelty", then they can probably > adjust a CO's capacity to cope with it. But at one point, Telus will tell Fido > "enough is enough" and will want Fido to start to split its network between > multiple landline COs. I believe there already are. That is a CRTC/ communications canada regulated issue, Telus MUST co-operate, although they can be a pain in the a.s.
>>Fido is adding significant capacity in Vancouver, which shows it is >>successful. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > network connection. So far, almost all the "complaints" we heard here seemed > to point to Telus overload, not to a Microcell overload. Agreed, but that is temporary. Telus has the legal obligation to provide capacity. Yes, initially Telus may say 'our estimates say you only need X connections', but once the demand is there, Telus is obligated to provide the interconnects.
And don't forget it is not linear, as more people go on Fido, fewer calls need to go through the interconnect. As you are likely to attract large groups of school/college kids, this effect may be significant.
>>Cityfido is a good deal for both sides from what I hear. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > when people talk more, they dont generate more revenus, but Fido has to spend > money to increase capacity. Yes, but adding capacity to existing cell towers is not that expensive versus starting up new sites. There is a ratio, hopefull Baystreet will be pleased enough that they invest more money in MCell than MCell needs to expand the system. Given that they already have enough physical sites, I don't see the costs as being that great.
> In the long term though, assuming Microcell becomes as profitable as a > landline telco, then yeah, this will be good. Telcos make money because their > infrastructure has been built up, paid for and customer growth is > small/manageable. Eventually, Microcell will have reached its market share > limit and won't need to grow (significantly) anymore and at that point, each > $45 will be pure profit. It is getting to that point that is a big question mark. We will see, but I believe in Vancouver it is quite profitable already. As i said, I am waiting for the quarterly report.
Pavel - 24 Apr 2004 06:18 GMT ...well said.
: > The Cityfido is $45 plus PST and GST, it includes the access fees. : [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] : limit and won't need to grow (significantly) anymore and at that point, each : $45 will be pure profit. It is getting to that point that is a big question mark. Pavel - 24 Apr 2004 06:17 GMT : : I agree, Fido has always been significantly cheaper, its extras are : cheaper, unlike Roger's and Telus where unpublished rates are often : exorbitant, like international long distance. It depends on where you call. For example, incoming calls on Fido while in Mexico are $3.50/min while with Rogers it's $2.98/min.
Pavel - 24 Apr 2004 06:07 GMT Not enough said. Fido is not stupid, they will incrementally and gradually increase the price over time. $5.00 now, another $5 or $10 later and so on....it all adds up. Remember years and years ago how old Rogers Cable would every 6 months or so advise us how our monthly cable bill was going up? Well, the same is true for Fido until they reach their break-even point for profit (that they deem acceptable). It seems to me that City Fido @ $40.00 was a loss leader. I find it repulsive that Fido raised their price so soon after implenting City Fido. They didn't even wait a year. Bad Dog!
Just my 1/2 cents.
: City Fido went up 5 bux........wooooooo BIG DEAL. It's still a steal at the : price! Contracts are OPTIONAL just like with everyone else. Handsets have : gone up but nothing they have ever done is what I'd call "highway robbery" : The previous poster has been whining for years, and considers a 1 cent : increase to be a ripoff. Enough said!: JF Mezei - 24 Apr 2004 09:58 GMT >profit (that they deem acceptable). It seems to me that City Fido @ $40.00 was a loss leader. >I find it repulsive that Fido raised their price so soon after implenting City Fido. They
>didn't even wait a year. Bad Dog! Think of it as an introductory offer of $40 for the first couple of weeks :-)
Oh, someone asked about inter-carrier MMS. There was an article in CNET not long ago about this.
Because of Qalcomm's CDMA, it will take a while to implement intercarrier MMS because of the need to develop software/gateways that convert formats not only between different handsets, but also between the different capabilities of GSM vs that Qualcomm thing called CDMA.
Super Dave - 24 Apr 2004 18:58 GMT LOL $45 for unlimited any time calling including the SAF fee and you find that repulsive. Get over it!
I find it repulsive that Fido raised their price so soon after implenting City Fido. They didn't even wait a year. Bad Dog!
Just my 1/2 cents.
repatch - 24 Apr 2004 20:09 GMT You know, I'm known for being pretty much against Fido in many things it's done.
But in THIS case I agree completely, to offer Cityfido for the price they do is a complete still, no bones about it. The fact that the phone isn't tied to your home makes it even more incredible.
I really hope Fido weather's the storm Telus is throwing at it because of Cityfido, because although I'm with Rogers right now, if Fido implemented Cityfido where I live I'd switch in a flash (assuming Bell would allow me to keep my sympatico DSL without a landline, I've heard rumours they do). TTYL
> LOL $45 for unlimited any time calling including the SAF fee and you find > that repulsive. Get over it! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Just my 1/2 cents. mistaroboto - 26 Apr 2004 15:26 GMT > I really hope Fido weather's the storm Telus is throwing at it because of > Cityfido, because although I'm with Rogers right now, if Fido implemented > Cityfido where I live I'd switch in a flash (assuming Bell would allow me to > keep my sympatico DSL without a landline, I've heard rumours they do). TTYL Where do you live?
repatch - 26 Apr 2004 16:24 GMT > > I really hope Fido weather's the storm Telus is throwing at it because of > > Cityfido, because although I'm with Rogers right now, if Fido implemented [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Where do you live? Toronto.
JF Mezei - 26 Apr 2004 20:23 GMT Went though the Fido web site, They have a FAQ on the MMS service.
Basically, it is $0.25 surcharge for each MMS message sent, but no surcharge for MMS message received. Both pay the normal GRPS data consumption charges. (But the recipient can refuse delivery of the "package" - the notice of a package being available is free however).
Sending MMS to an email address is not yet supported by microcell. (I find this interesting; if they bother installing the MMS gateway software/hardware, wouldn't that include the email gateway out of the box ?)
Not sure how sending an email with attachement from the handset compares with sending the same attachement via MMS in terms of GPRS bandwidth consumed. (in an email, the attachement is encoded in base64 which requires roughly 25% more bytes to send) ( each 8 bit byte sent over the line carries only 6 bits of the original document).
MMS is limited to 50 documents. So, a 50k document encoded as base64 requires 66.6k. This means 16 k for the base64 encoding overhead. At $0.03 per kilobyte, this is roughly $0.50
So, unless you have spare bandwidth on your GPRS package, and *IF* MMS sends the data "raw" without encoding, it would mean that sending an email via MMS (when available) will end up costing less even with the $0.25 surcharge.
Oh, and while Fido now has the software to support WAP-Push, they have not upgraded their proxy server to the internet to carry the WAP specific HTTP headers that provide some identification of the subscriber which is needed by the remote site to send back a WAP Push response to that customer. (usually, that subscriber ID is some random number assigned to a customer).
Cellular Unlocker - 27 Apr 2004 08:26 GMT > Basically, it is $0.25 surcharge for each MMS message sent, but no surcharge > for MMS message received. Both pay the normal GRPS data consumption charges. > (But the recipient can refuse delivery of the "package" - the notice of a > package being available is free however). From what I was told by the CSR I spoke to, you do not pay any GPRS fees, only $0.25 per message sent. On the website, when they say "GPRS roaming usage charges apply to both sent and received messages, even during the period when picture messages are free," I believe they mean gprs roaming fees when you are not on the Fido network. From what I gathered from the CSR, anything going through the MMS apn is not billed as GPRS usage, it is billed at $0.25 per use. To receive the notice and the MMS are free, for now.
CU
Pavel - 21 Apr 2004 06:37 GMT I wonder if Rogers will follow suit?
: Yes. MMS is available from Fido as of April 20th, 2004. You may have to : activate it in your account if you activated your line after February 2004. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] : > : > Brian alien - 21 Apr 2004 09:45 GMT On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 01:56:10 -0400, Cellular Unlocker says...
> Yes. MMS is available from Fido as of April 20th, 2004. You may have to > activate it in your account if you activated your line after February 2004. > though. Does it work with prepaid?
From their website:
"Now you can take pictures, add text and sound, and send them to other Fido monthly package subscribers"
Monthly package only?
But then again on the FAQ page it says:
"Who can I exchange picture messages with?
You can exchange picture messages with any other Fido customer who also has an MMS-compatible handset. Sending a message is similar to text messaging in that you send the picture message to another Fido customer=3Fs number."
tony - 21 Apr 2004 16:45 GMT Looks like you can only send a picture to another Fido user. I tried sending a pic to my cousin in Greece (who does have an MMS-enabled phone), and it gave me an error. :( Any ideas when it'll expand to allow MMS to other geographies and users?
Thanx,
.:. tony
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