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Cellular Phone Forum / General / GSM / January 2005Mobiles connected to a cell
Hi Guys, I was wondering if there is a way of finding out the msisdns that are attached to a particular cell. This is for location based advertising etc. Any method would be ok including tapping SS7 BSSAP. Is this possible? thanks > Hi Guys, > > I was wondering if there is a way of finding out the msisdns that are attached to a particular cell. This is for location based advertising etc. Any method would be ok including tapping SS7 BSSAP. Is this possible? > > thanks No.  Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' You could do this if you had access to the HLR database. The GSM call flows at the following link should get you started: http://www.eventhelix.com/RealtimeMantra/Telecom/ Deepa -- http://www.EventHelix.com/EventStudio EventStudio 2.5 - Generate call flows in PDF and Word > You could do this [finding out the msisdns that are attached > to a particular cell] if you had access to the HLR database. Jer's correct, you couldn't. Not even the network knows which phones are camped on a particular cell. At any particular time, LAC of registration is the finest level of granularity known to the HLR/network. John You are right. I stand corrected. I had worked on a system where the location area was set to one cell. The network would know only at the location area level for registered subscribers. This might be good enough for the location based advertising when the cells are small. Deepa -- http://www.EventHelix.com/EventStudio EventStudio 2.5 - Generate call flows in PDF and Word What about using probes at the BSC level? But I think this might be a problem becuase there would be no way to tie the phone(MSISDN) to the messages pulled out of the probes. PS: Is the BSC notified of cell reselection? > What about using probes at the BSC level? But I think this > might be a problem becuase there would be no way to tie the > phone(MSISDN) to the messages pulled out of the probes. > > PS: Is the BSC notified of cell reselection? Answering the "PS" first, only if the new cell has a different Location Area Code (LAC). Within an LAC, the network isn't told about which cell an idle phone is camped on. The phone doesn't transmit when camping on another cell, so the BSC has no such information. People who live on an LAC "junction" can experience poor battery performance due to the need to frequently reregister as signal levels from competing Location Areas wax and wane. Aside from this, the phone must perform a periodic Location Update on expiry of the (network specific) timer. John John, >Aside from this, the phone must perform a periodic Location >Update on expiry of the (network specific) timer. Can you give me more information of this. Ping. > John, > >>Aside from this, the phone must perform a periodic Location >>Update on expiry of the (network specific) timer. > > Can you give me more information of this. Hi, I'd forgotten most of the detail, and had to do a quick google refresher. The T3212 timer controls periodic location updating. It's a value, in units of 6 minutes, broadcast on the BCCH. The phone starts a timer based on his value, and announces itself to the network each time it expires. If the phone misses an update, it can be deregistered from the network (effectively, logged out or deemed to be switched off). In my part of the world (Australia) T3212 values vary from 1 hour (some Telstra areas, other Telstra areas are 3 hours), to 8 hours for Optus. John Is there a way of triggering this timer prematurely from the network forcing an instantaeneous location update? Also would the location update be restricted to the BSC or will it filter down to the MSC level. > Is there a way of triggering this timer prematurely from the > network forcing an instantaeneous location update? I believe so, but I've never gone into the details of the mechanism. You can certainly ping the network from the phone, by asking for call diversion or call waiting status for example. Presumably, such an interaction restarts the T3212 timer - it certainly updates the Timing Advance value in the phone. > Also would the location update be restricted to the BSC or > will it filter down to the MSC level. That's a very good question. I don't know the answer, but have always assumed that it just might get stored somewhere. John John Henderson a formulé ce mardi : > You can certainly ping the network from the phone, by asking for > call diversion or call waiting status for example. Presumably, > such an interaction restarts the T3212 timer - it certainly > updates the Timing Advance value in the phone. Yes, it does. SignatureChristophe Couverture GSM Oléron 2003 http://chantoine3.free.fr >Is there a way of triggering this timer prematurely from the network forcing an instantaeneous location update? ... Why would the network want to do that? SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular "Ping via CellPhoneKB.com" wrote: >>Is there a way of triggering this timer prematurely from the >>network forcing an instantaeneous location update? ... "John Navas" replied: > Why would the network want to do that? To find and nail you for those stolen ringtones, of course :) John >"Ping via CellPhoneKB.com" wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >To find and nail you for those stolen ringtones, of course :) Of course! Forgot that. Except I wasn't asking the question. ;-) SignatureBest regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES: John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular There is a unique requirement for why need to find out the MSs connected to a cell, but this wud be ideal for location based advertising aswell. This would be preferable to a Cell Broadcast because we'd have more control over the messages and we can push different messages to different MSISDNs. There is a unique requirement for why need to find out the MSs connected to a cell, but this wud be ideal for location based advertising aswell. This would be preferable to a Cell Broadcast because we'd have more control over the messages and we can push different messages to different MSISDNs. > There is a unique requirement for why need to find out the MSs connected to a cell, but this wud be ideal for location based advertising aswell. > > This would be preferable to a Cell Broadcast because we'd have more control over the messages and we can push different messages to different MSISDNs. We don't care about your need to advertise your commercial spam. You have to understand that certain things can't be done because they shouldn't be done. Advertising to cell phones is a really bad idea - it's intrusive, unwarranted, unwanted, and costs me money which I'd rather use to feed my kids. So, if you continue with this plan of yours, be certain you can't be traced, because if I catch you doing it to me, it's gonna get ugly. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >> There is a unique requirement for why need to find out the MSs >> connected to a cell, but this wud be ideal for location based [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > yours, be certain you can't be traced, because if I catch you doing it > to me, it's gonna get ugly. If thes smart arses want to SPAM our mobile phones, how about they give us a brand new phone and pay for our phone calls. They could SPAM me as much as they want then! :) Signature73 de Simon, VK3XEM. http://www.aca.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452 The views stated by me are my own and have nothing to do with any organisation I belong to, so the prick that tried to slander me can get f.cked because it didn't work! >>> There is a unique requirement for why need to find out the MSs >>> connected to a cell, but this wud be ideal for location based [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > us a brand new phone and pay for our phone calls. They could SPAM me as > much as they want then! :) It's less about the money issue and more about their attitude that they actually believe they have some sort of right to do what they do - as if they've been annointed by some constitutional fine print that makes them Keepers of All Things Dear. They don't. They never did. It's bullshit. Always has been. It's been a long, long time since I've seen any flavour of commercial advert that offers me anything that I want or something I don't already have. Plus, the mentality one is required to have to actually believe their hock or witness their schtick is about half a notch above pond scum. I've never spoken to a marketer that didn't offend me personally nor even care that they did. As a consequence, all marketing in any form or fashion is filtered from my entire life and ignored to render it ineffective because frankly, I don't want their dreck washing over me or my family. Ever. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' J> Simon Templar wrote: >> Jer wrote: >>> Ping via CellPhoneKB.com wrote: >>>> There is a unique requirement for why need to find out the MSs >>>> connected to a cell, but this wud be ideal for location based >>>> advertising aswell. >>>> This would be preferable to a Cell Broadcast because we'd have >>>> more control over the messages and we can push different messages >>>> to different MSISDNs. >>> We don't care about your need to advertise your commercial spam. >>> You have to understand that certain things can't be done because [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>> plan of yours, be certain you can't be traced, because if I catch >>> you doing it to me, it's gonna get ugly. >> If thes smart arses want to SPAM our mobile phones, how about they >> give us a brand new phone and pay for our phone calls. They could >> SPAM me as much as they want then! :) J> It's less about the money issue and more about their attitude that J> they actually believe they have some sort of right to do what they J> do - as if they've been annointed by some constitutional fine print J> that makes them Keepers of All Things Dear. They don't. They never J> did. It's bullshit. Always has been. It's been a long, long time J> since I've seen any flavour of commercial advert that offers me J> anything that I want or something I don't already have. Plus, the J> mentality one is required to have to actually believe their hock or J> witness their schtick is about half a notch above pond scum. I've J> never spoken to a marketer that didn't offend me personally nor even J> care that they did. As a consequence, all marketing in any form or J> fashion is filtered from my entire life and ignored to render it J> ineffective because frankly, I don't want their dreck washing over J> me or my family. Ever. J> -- J> jer J> email reply - I am not a 'ten' Too bad all the previous posts to that ping guy only made him wiser. Bye Marcel <no@spam.please> Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:16:28 +0200 > Reply to message from Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> (Fri, 14 Jan 2005 08:32: > Too bad all the previous posts to that ping guy only made him wiser. Good, he/she needs to get wise. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' > There is a unique requirement for why need to find out the MSs > connected to a cell, but this wud be ideal for location based > advertising aswell. Hey Ping, can you please turn off your "Message Confirmation" setting please? SignatureAnything good in life is either illegal, immoral, or fattening.. Geez u guys, take it easy. First of all who said anything about spamming? We'd only plug messages to people who wud have regsitered for the service. As a professional in this industry I know what is stupid and what is not. To think that an operator wud spam people with SMs is beyond ridiculous. I'm not interested in anybodys' ethical BS. It's a purely technical question. So please don't try to "wise me up", and clutter this post. If you can't give me a technical answer then please don't write to this thread. The requirement also has resource management implications for those of you smart enough to have figured it out. > Geez u guys, take it easy. > > First of all who said anything about spamming? We'd only plug messages to people who wud have regsitered for the service. As a professional in this industry I know what is stupid and what is not. To think that an operator wud spam people with SMs is beyond ridiculous. > > I'm not interested in anybodys' ethical BS. You should be interested in our etthical BS because it matters to us. > It's a purely technical question. So please don't try to "wise me up", and clutter this post. If you can't give me a technical answer then please don't write to this thread. We may seem somewhat touchy with this line of questions, and all too often the intent is to violate our ethics. > The requirement also has resource management implications for those of you smart enough to have figured it out. No, I'm not smart to figure it out - but this is the first post from you that offered that alternative. Good luck in your endeavour to conquer the technical SMS world. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' |
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