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Cellular Phone Forum / General / GSM / July 2006calling 911 without sim card?
I understand that even deactivated cell phones are supposed to be able to call 911. Is this possible with a GSM phone that DOES NOT have a SIM card in the phone? Thanks for your responses. >I understand that even deactivated cell phones are supposed to be able >to call 911. Is this possible with a GSM phone that DOES NOT have a SIM >card in the phone? Eyup, with a few minor issues (see below). It's in the spec and I've personally tested it out. Oh, the major issue, of course, is that you're in range of a compatable GSM radio tower... minor ones: If your phone is an _old_ one and was spec'ed for outside the US (but happened to have US frequencies on it) then there's a teensy possibility that it won't understand about calling 911. Anything within the last five years would be ok (And anything older for the US market is fine).  Signature_____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] > If your phone is an _old_ one and was spec'ed for outside the US (but > happened to have US frequencies on it) then there's a teensy > possibility that it won't understand about calling 911. ...in which case, use the internationally recognised emergency number, 112, rather than the US deomestic emergency number. :) PD SignaturePaul Day Web: http://www.enigma.id.au/ >> If your phone is an _old_ one and was spec'ed for outside the US (but >> happened to have US frequencies on it) then there's a teensy >> possibility that it won't understand about calling 911. >...in which case, use the internationally recognised emergency number, >112, rather than the US deomestic emergency number. :) or... " 08 " (that's a zero, then eight ) Signature_____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] >>> If your phone is an _old_ one and was spec'ed for outside the US (but >>> happened to have US frequencies on it) then there's a teensy [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > or... " 08 " (that's a zero, then eight ) Since when does 08 work? -- The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may belong to. 73 de Simon, VK3XEM. http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452 > I understand that even deactivated cell phones are supposed to be able > to call 911. Is this possible with a GSM phone that DOES NOT have a SIM > card in the phone? > > Thanks for your responses. The International GSM EMERGENCY Number is 112, however each country normally has their carriers programme the local Emergency Number in to the phones as well to work without a SIM Card. For that reason I always dial 112 in an Emergency on a cell/mobile phone. -- The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may belong to. 73 de Simon, VK3XEM. http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452 >I understand that even deactivated cell phones are supposed to be able >to call 911. Is this possible with a GSM phone that DOES NOT have a SIM >card in the phone? > >Thanks for your responses. Depends upon the target market for the phone. Certainly any Ericsson with an A suffix, but after that lookout. 911 is unique to North America, in fact I think Omnipoint used to map the Emerency numbers used elsewhere in the world to 911 as a service for visitors. My point is that if you live in Australia, I think Emergency Services is 000, so the phone will allow you dial 000 without a SIM card, strangely my K700i, which is from Australia will also allow you to dial 911, but those are the only numbers it will allow. I have an R520m intended for the USA market. It can dial 911, but not 000. The simple test is to see what numbers it will accept for entry from the keypad while the keypad is locked. One way to check > Depends upon the target market for the phone. Certainly any Ericsson > with an A suffix, but after that lookout. 911 is unique to North [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the keypad while the keypad is locked. > One way to check With work and Volunteer Emergency service I could use a multitude of phones, so I have simply gotten into the habit of dialling 112. Let's face it if I need to dial it then it is more than likely time critical so I don't want to be redialling because because the local Emergency number is not configured into the phone. -- The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may belong to. 73 de Simon, VK3XEM. http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452 >> Depends upon the target market for the phone. Certainly any Ericsson >> with an A suffix, but after that lookout. 911 is unique to North [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I don't want to be redialling because because the local Emergency number > is not configured into the phone. 112 should be "safe", a question to Matt Weber, you claim "no other number works except 000 and 911", are you sure 112 does not work? 112 is the first and only original emergency number in the GSM standard, others have appeared later. To me it sounds questionable from a manufacturer to switch off 112 support. Recent SIM cards (supported by recent phones only) have a specific list of emergency numbers but I tend to remember that 112 should still be non-conditional, one should not get type approval for a GSM phone that does not support 112. > -- > The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may > belong to. > > 73 de Simon, VK3XEM. > http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452 > Recent SIM cards (supported by recent phones only) have a specific list of > emergency numbers but I tend to remember that 112 should still be > non-conditional, one should not get type approval for a GSM phone that does > not support 112. Not always of much use. For example, the emergency numbers here are 101, 102 and 103. If you don't know that or roam out of the country, they will be useless. Geoff. SignatureGeoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ >> Recent SIM cards (supported by recent phones only) have a specific list >> of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Geoff. Do you mean that 112 is useless at your location where the emergency numbers are 101, 102 and 103? I'm afraid 101, 102 and 103 are not (normally?) recognised as "true" emergency numbers by a GSM phone, then if you dial 101, you would get an ordinary phone call to the number "101", as far as seen from the GSM network point of view (meaning no priority etc.). When you dial a true GSM emergency call, the phone is not indicating ANY number to the network, just indicating that this is an emergency call, this right from the first resource request (allowing the network to clear existing calls if necessary to make room for the emergency call etc.). If your phone does this for the 101 number, then there is no difference if you called 112. Since you have three different numbers, I assume the "service" is a bit different for each, and at least not all being true emergency numbers for the GSM network. I did not try to find any details but one could be a number for the police, which then actually is "an ordinary number" as far as seen by the GSM network. I wrote: >> Not always of much use. For example, the emergency numbers here are >> 101, 102 and 103. If you don't know that or roam out of the country, >> they will be useless. > Do you mean that 112 is useless at your location where the emergency numbers > are 101, 102 and 103? Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that local emergency numbers programed into a SIM may not be of much use outside of the network (or country) they came from. To be exact, the 101, 102, 103 numbers reach Hebrew speaking dispatcher's in Tel Aviv. They take you information and dispatch whatever is needed. I'm sure GSM phones will accept 112, and there you have a chance of getting someone who speaks your language. I don't know what 911 will do. In the late 1990's the city of Jerusalem had an English speaking 911 service (aimed at U.S. tourists), but it's long since been discontinued. It's probably unecessary as there was no GSM service at the time. Also note that while there are two GSM networks, there is also an 800mHz CDMA, an 800mHz D-AMPS (aka TDMA) and a MIRS network all offering cellular phone service. So while tourists would most likley have GSM service if they brought their own phones, rental phones and many "locals" don't. > I'm afraid 101, 102 and 103 are not (normally?) recognised as "true" > emergency numbers by a GSM phone, then if you dial 101, you would get an > ordinary phone call to the number "101", as far as seen from the GSM network > point of view (meaning no priority etc.). I assume that once you were out of Israel, they would do nothing, or get you a service you did not expect. > When you dial a true GSM emergency call, the phone is not indicating ANY > number to the network, just indicating that this is an emergency call, this > right from the first resource request (allowing the network to clear > existing calls if necessary to make room for the emergency call etc.). I assume you are correct, they are not emergency calls, but they may be given priority at the switch. There is a persistant rumor that the local cellular carriers give priority to big customers and very low priority to pay as you go ones. Geoff. SignatureGeoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ [ snip ] >I meant that local emergency numbers programed into a SIM may not be >of much use outside of the network (or country) they came from. >To be exact, the 101, 102, 103 numbers reach Hebrew speaking dispatcher's >in Tel Aviv. They take you information and dispatch whatever is needed. >I'm sure GSM phones will accept 112, and there you have a chance of getting >someone who speaks your language. I don't know what 911 will do. further explanation: There are two different aspects to calling emergency services from a gsm phone: a: The phone itself. GSM phones are set up so that the emergency numbers programmed into them _will_ work, that is, the phone will attempt to call out, even if there's no SIM or no account on the local GSM radio system. So... if you pickup any current GSM phone it _will_ let you "dial" th enumbers "112" and "911" and quite often " 08" . b: the next issue is what happens in teh GSM network. They'll "understand" the numbers you punched in, and will route that call to the local emergency services folk - regardlss of what the "real" number is. For example, here in NYC, if I take out my SIM card and punch in " 112 ", the phone lets me do it.. and then the network takes my call and translates it to " 911 ". ( hmm, I'll have to double check " 08 " sometime. I know it'll go out from te phone, but can't say from personal experience that it'll get translated.) If I try the " 101 " that's used in Israel, or, for that matter, a local seven digit number for the services, the phone will NOT let it go through [a] if no SIM or no account, etc. If I do have a working phone and try 101, it simply goes nowhere. [a] twould be interesting to see what happens with GSM phones marketed in Israel. Signature_____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] > [ snip ] > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >to call out, even if there's no SIM or no account >on the local GSM radio system. Actually the older Ericsson's would display 'EMERGENCY CALLS ONLY' if they found a provider, but could not register on the network. >So... if you pickup any current GSM phone it _will_ >let you "dial" th enumbers "112" and "911" and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >[a] twould be interesting to see what happens >with GSM phones marketed in Israel. > So... if you pickup any current GSM phone it _will_ > let you "dial" th enumbers "112" Correct, otherwise they're not meeting the GSM spec. > and "911" and quite often " 08" . Incorrect. They _might_, depending on where you are and what's been programmed into the handset. PD SignaturePaul Day Web: http://www.enigma.id.au/ >> So... if you pickup any current GSM phone it _will_ >> let you "dial" th enumbers "112" >Correct, otherwise they're not meeting the GSM spec. >> and "911" and quite often " 08" . >Incorrect. They _might_, depending on where you are and what's been >programmed into the handset. I don't know what percentage of the current models are set up that way, but it's got to be pretty high. As I mentioned, my 3 y/o Nokia, marketed in the US, lets me hit 112, 911, and 08. The latter is most assuredly NOT the general US number... I asked a friend in Germany, and his unit works for 911. (He hasn't had a chance to try 08). In modern international marketting, it makes sense to include all three in all phones. Signature_____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] |
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