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Cellular Phone Forum / General / GSM / June 2007Can a tri-band phone be a "world phone"?
Just how important is the 900MHz band for use outside the US, particularly western Europe? The listings on gsmworld.com show many networks as 900/1800, but does that mean that the coverage is duplicated, or just that you might run into one or the other? I see a number of tri-band (850/1800/1900MHz) phones being marketed as international or world phones.  SignatureBert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com >Just how important is the 900MHz band for use outside the US, >particularly western Europe? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I see a number of tri-band (850/1800/1900MHz) phones being marketed >as international or world phones. Depends on the carrier. Some use 1800 for additional capacity. Some newer carriers are 1800-only. It's telling that single band (900 MHz) phones are no longer sold. > Just how important is the 900MHz band for use outside the US, > particularly western Europe? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I see a number of tri-band (850/1800/1900MHz) phones being > marketed as international or world phones. Unless it's a 1800 MHz-only network, 900 MHz can be very important. For at least one Australian dual-band network, registration happens on 900 MHz only, with 1800 MHz used only for cell handovers. In addition, 900 MHz tends to be used widely, and for non-congested areas (it has better long-distance characteristics), with 1800 MHz used more for short-range urban cells (as coverage/capacity infill). John >I see a number of tri-band (850/1800/1900MHz) phones being marketed >as international or world phones. Really? I hadn't seen that, here in Europe. 850 is 'extremely' rare. 900/1800/1900 is marketed as world wide, because 900/1800 give you good coverage virtually everywhere, and 1900 is required in N America. However, I fel foul of this - Ecuador, and (I think) Guatemala only accept 850 handsets. I think these are the only countries that limit service to the 850 band (this may change shortly as the operators are realising they are preventing roaming traffic from China and Europe). So, if you want world service, you need 850 (for Ecuador, Guatemala), 1900 for N America, and some of S America, 900 for everywhere else, eg Europe, Africa, Asia. I am not aware of any country offering coverage only on 1800, but I think no handsets are offered today without 1800, so it is a moot point. 1800 will give you better choice in most countries, lower tariffs, etc. I would be very happy to be corrected - I travel widely in my work, and need to understand these things myself, so please post if I've missed something. ______________ regards, Ron >>I see a number of tri-band (850/1800/1900MHz) phones being marketed >>as international or world phones. > Really? I hadn't seen that, here in Europe. 850 is 'extremely' rare. > 900/1800/1900 is marketed as world wide, because 900/1800 give you > good coverage virtually everywhere, and 1900 is required in N America. Well, the standard for phones offered in the US is 850/1900, and I guess some vendors think that throwing in 1800 is enough to qualify as a "world phone". Looking at US carriers on gsmworld.com, I see a number of systems listed as 850 only. Judging simply by their names, they seem to be small rural systems. SignatureBert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com Just want to mention that Panama is also an 850 ONLY country -- mrcamp >Well, the standard for phones offered in the US is 850/1900, and I guess >some vendors think that throwing in 1800 is enough to qualify as a >"world phone". Most GSM networks outside USA use mainly 900 band; some even if they have an 1800 band will first require registration on the 900 band - the 1800 band is "hidden". Why? Who knows? > Most GSM networks outside USA use mainly 900 band; some even if they > have an 1800 band will first require registration on the 900 band - the > 1800 band is "hidden". Why? Who knows? The 1800 MHz band is often implemented as just extra capacity. In this case the carrier may only install a control channel in the 900 MHz band. With no control channel in the 1800 MHz band an 1800 MHz-only phone will have no way of receiving instructions from the network. SignatureDonald R. Newcomb DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net > I am not aware of any country offering coverage only on 1800, but I > think no handsets are offered today without 1800, so it is a moot > point. Costa Rica. SignatureDonald R. Newcomb DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net >> I am not aware of any country offering coverage only on 1800, but I >> think no handsets are offered today without 1800, so it is a moot >> point. > >Costa Rica. Well done, Donald. There are very likely to be countries with only 900 so to cover those use 900, to cover Costa Rica use 1800, to cover Ecuador/Panama use 850, to cover USA use 1900. So a world phone, usable anywhere, probably has to be quad band. Looking to be a good reason to ask the boss for an HP PDA 6910. Quad band, and I'll be in reach of her emails anywhere on the planet. ______________ regards, Ron For western europe, the 900 band will give you more options. Eve though, most of those countries do have an 1800 ONLY carrier. A "real world phone will have all 4 bands. Before the introduction of the 85 band a 900/1800/1900 is considered a world phone. It's definitel incorrect to market a 850/1800/1900MHz phone as a world phone. It wil not even work in a lot of countries in Africa, Asia, and some easter europe countries. Personally, I will not travel outside the US withou a phone with the 900 band. Bert Hyman;692391 Wrote: > Just how important is the 900MHz band for use outside the US, > particularly western Europe? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I see a number of tri-band (850/1800/1900MHz) phones being marketed > as international or world phones. -- mrcamp > A "real" >world phone will have all 4 bands. Some now also have the 2100 band as well. (3G?) > Some now also have the 2100 band as well. (3G?) Important for those who travel to Japan and S. Korea but not really for anyone else. SignatureDonald R. Newcomb DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net >Important for those who travel to Japan and S. Korea but not really for >anyone else. I believe some operators will use 2100Mhz for implementation of "3g"? One phone with EGSM 850/900/1800/1900 MHz and WCDMA 2100 MHz is the Nokia N76, not sure if available in North America. In news:9r8673l1lkoltvf6emjkl86qj7159411io@4ax.com Lone Wolf <flatulantdingo@deadspam.com> wrote: >>Important for those who travel to Japan and S. Korea but not really >>for anyone else. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > One phone with EGSM 850/900/1800/1900 MHz and WCDMA 2100 MHz is the > Nokia N76, not sure if available in North America. According to gsmworld.com (I've been using them a lot; are they reliable?), 3G networks in the US show up at 850/1900 (Cingular), 850 only (Cordova Wireless [who?]), 2100 and 1700 (Stelera Wireless [again, who? [and 1700?]]). SignatureBert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com >... gsmworld.com (I've been using them a lot; are they >reliable?) Their data is likely to be among the strongest. This is the website of the GSM association, a trade body of all the GSM operators, and includes a second tier of representation by manufacturers. As ever, keep in mind that there might be a mistake somewhere, but I doubt there's better data elsewhere - partly because there isn't really any other body with access to it all. ______________ regards, Ron >According to gsmworld.com (I've been using them a lot; are they >reliable?), 3G networks in the US show up at 850/1900 (Cingular), 850 >only (Cordova Wireless [who?]), 2100 and 1700 (Stelera Wireless [again, >who? [and 1700?]]). There was talk a couple of years back of using 450 Mhz in countries such as Bangladesh and India to allow a cheap phone to be sold to the punters. I have read a story how hand phones have helped the economy of these countries - in one example fishermen were returning to port and had to dump their catch if no demand; now they have hand phones they can assess the market in various coastal towns. >>Important for those who travel to Japan and S. Korea but not really for >>anyone else. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >One phone with EGSM 850/900/1800/1900 MHz and WCDMA 2100 MHz is the >Nokia N76, not sure if available in North America. And the upcoming Nokia 6120 Classic and 6500 Classic. The only company that appears to be offering true world phones are Dopod Most of their devices are Quadband GSM and Tri-band (W-CDMA) 3G Check out an example at http://www.dopodasia.com/global/au/products/pda_838pro/pda_838pro_fea.html Very handy in a country like Australia which uses both 850 and 2100 3G HSPDA >>Important for those who travel to Japan and S. Korea but not really for >>anyone else. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > One phone with EGSM 850/900/1800/1900 MHz and WCDMA 2100 MHz is the > Nokia N76, not sure if available in North America. >Very handy in a country like Australia which uses both 850 and 2100 3G HSPDA Except not much use if you are Australian. Telstra (Tel$tra) use 850, Optus (Optarse) will use 2100, and Australian SIM cards do not roam on to other networks. (Of course if you are visiting Australia, your SIM card should roam). >>Very handy in a country like Australia which uses both 850 and 2100 3G HSPDA > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >(Of course if you are visiting Australia, your SIM card should roam). Interesting... as I understand you, Australian carriers do not offer/support "roaming" agreements with off-shore carriers? So would this mean that an Aussie cannot travel overseas without buying local SIM cards? Just curious as it doesn't affect my traveling (I have a quad-band HTC device... the MDA from T-Mobile). I'll buy a 3G enabled phone/PDA combo when I start noticing that my quad-band no longer suits my needs (I do travel globally). ______________________ The Traveller Oceanside, California >Interesting... as I understand you, Australian carriers do not >offer/support "roaming" agreements with off-shore carriers? So would >this mean that an Aussie cannot travel overseas without buying local >SIM cards? No, Australian carriers support roaming on overseas SIM cards, but don't allow roaming within Australia of Australian SIM cards from one network to another. And of course Australian SIM cards roam when outside Australia. All providing that roaming has been set up, of course. > One phone with EGSM 850/900/1800/1900 MHz and WCDMA 2100 MHz is the > Nokia N76, not sure if available in North America. TigerDirect is selling the N95 (US$675) which is supposed to be quad-band + UMTS. That's a bit rich for my blood. I have a quad-band V550 plus a V980 which is tri-band plus UMTS. SignatureDonald R. Newcomb DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net >> Some now also have the 2100 band as well. (3G?) > >Important for those who travel to Japan and S. Korea but not really for >anyone else. That's certainly quite a lot of travellers - both ways. When in S Korea without a 3G phone, I couldn't use my phone because there is no GSM 2G service there. I could have used my SIM card in a CDMA handset rented at the airport, and had calls charged to my account in the normal way, so I could have used my 'service', but I couldn't use my phone. With a 3G phone you can get service now, so I guess a genuinely world phone has to include 2100 to catch those countries without GSM 2G. Incidentally, has anyone here tried that - especially using their ordinary SIM from their own country in their own 2100 3G capable phone, and managed to roam with voice calls? I was wondering whether ordinary everyday SIMs worked (there has been talk of USIMs, not sure what they are), and whether 3G capable phones were, generally, seamless operating into the 2100 band. ______________ regards, Ron > That's certainly quite a lot of travellers - both ways. When > in S Korea without a 3G phone, I couldn't use my phone because [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > what they are), and whether 3G capable phones were, generally, > seamless operating into the 2100 band. All UMTS (3G) phones are able to operate on old-fashioned 2G GSM networks (to the best of my knowledge). Likewise, UMTS-capable SIMs (USIMs) have a file structure that includes the necessary 2G GSM parameters required by the phone to operate on older networks. Whilst older 2G GSM SIMs will work happily in UMTS phones, network access is restricted to 2G GSM cells when using them. John >Likewise, UMTS-capable SIMs (USIMs) have a file structure that >includes the necessary 2G GSM parameters required by the phone >to operate on older networks. Whilst older 2G GSM SIMs will >work happily in UMTS phones, network access is restricted to 2G >GSM cells when using them. Thanks for that. So I couldn't purchase a 3G / 2G SIM-free phone while keeping my current service, drop in my existing 2G service SIM, and roam into S Korea or Japan, if I understand you correctly. I would have to ask my provider to send me an updated SIM - a USIM. Hadn't realised that. Presumably they will. So we travellers cannot just get hold of a quin-band phone (850, 900, 1800, 1900, 2100) and roam anywwhere. Worth knowing, anyway. ______________ regards, Ron > Thanks for that. So I couldn't purchase a 3G / 2G SIM-free phone > while keeping my current service, drop in my existing 2G service SIM, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > So we travellers cannot just get hold of a quin-band phone (850, 900, > 1800, 1900, 2100) and roam anywwhere. Worth knowing, anyway. I don't know what you can or can't do. I can only tell you what I do. I have a Moto V980 and an ancient 32K Powertel SIM that now functions on T-Mobile. I drop this SIM into the V980 and roam all over Japan on the UMTS networks (Softbank & FoMa). If this is impossible, I apologize. I just know it works for me. SignatureDonald R. Newcomb DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net >>Likewise, UMTS-capable SIMs (USIMs) have a file structure that >>includes the necessary 2G GSM parameters required by the phone [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >So we travellers cannot just get hold of a quin-band phone (850, 900, >1800, 1900, 2100) and roam anywwhere. Worth knowing, anyway. http://europe.nokia.com/A4399010 While generally you do need a USIM (Universal SIM) to log on to 3G networks, that decision is ultimately made by the individual carrier. For instance, Optus in Australia has unlocked 2.5G SIMS activated in the last 3 years to use 3G on their network (not all data services are available with the 2.5G SIM) and roam to such places as Japan and S Korea as well as the rest of the world. Optus also now has a roaming agreement with Aeromobile to use your mobile on selected aircraft including 1 QANTAS plane. Service is on GSM 1800 band. >> That's certainly quite a lot of travellers - both ways. When >> in S Korea without a 3G phone, I couldn't use my phone because [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > John |
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