Looking at old posts, there seems to be no conclusion over the maximum
distance of GSM. Some argue 35km, others say 120KM.
I have a particular rural location I visit where I would like service.
Using my Blackberry 7105, I can see outgoing packets are being sent
from the phone, so I gather the phone is seeing a tower. [Generally,
when I have no service, I don't see the phone attempt to handshake
with a tower.] The distance I need to cover is about 75 miles.
Presuming I can find a 2nd GSM phone with antenna port, i.e. remove
loss from the equation, is GSM communications possible over such a
distance? Service provider in this location is Alltell, though it
shows up at Cellular One.
John Henderson - 25 Jun 2007 00:18 GMT
> Looking at old posts, there seems to be no conclusion over the
> maximum distance of GSM. Some argue 35km, others say 120KM.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> provider in this location is Alltell, though it shows up at
> Cellular One.
Standard GSM is limited to 35 km by timing advance (TA).
Permissible TA values vary from zero to 63 in increments of
one, with each step representing about 554 metres.
ER (Extended Range) GSM (range limited by BTS sensitivity)
sacrifices half its traffic capacity by allocating its
timeslots in pairs. So each user has two BTS timeslots to use,
instead of the single timeslot allocated in standard GSM.
Range is typically about 70 km, with the negotiated TA value
being 63 for all distance beyond 35 km.
EER (Enhanced Extended Range) GSM is an ER variant which adds
more BTS (base station) sensitivity to push usable
line-of-sight range out to about 120 km.
Very few countries use ER, and those which do use it on very few
cells. The EER version would be even rarer.
When you mention packets, do you mean you're using GPRS? As far
as I know, Ericsson is the only BTS manufacturer to sell ER
BTSs, and Ericsson have not made any GPRS-compatable ER
equipment.
So unfortunately you can forget trying to use GPRS at over 35
km. A circuit-switched data call is compatible with ER cells,
but even EER is doubtful at 75 miles. But you might achieve
comms with line-of-sight to the BTS and a high-gain external
antenna.
UMTS (3G GSM, or 3GSM) uses neither TA, timeslots nor GPRS, and
is not distance-limited in this way. Sensitivity and noise are
what distance-limits UMTS.
John
miso@sushi.com - 25 Jun 2007 02:22 GMT
> m...@sushi.com wrote:
> > Looking at old posts, there seems to be no conclusion over the
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> BTSs, and Ericsson have not made any GPRS-compatable ER
> equipment.
I am using GPRS, though I probably shouldn't have used the word
packets. Rather, I can see the phone attempting to communicate with
the tower, and lets leave it at that. On this particular phone
network, the Blackberry goes from gsm to gprs to GPRS, where the
capitalization signifies something. Of course, that is how the phone
behaves when in range. In the fringe, it attempts to handshake, but
that is as far as it gets.
> So unfortunately you can forget trying to use GPRS at over 35
> km. A circuit-switched data call is compatible with ER cells,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> John
I don't have a 3G handset, just EDGE.
I'll make an attempt to contact the cellular provider and see how the
system is set up, but contacting the person with the knowledge is
generally impossible. That is, it is really hard to get past customer
service.
Does someone have a list of GSM phones that have external antenna
jacks?
Donald Newcomb - 25 Jun 2007 02:43 GMT
> with a tower.] The distance I need to cover is about 75 miles.
> Presuming I can find a 2nd GSM phone with antenna port, i.e. remove
> loss from the equation, is GSM communications possible over such a
> distance? Service provider in this location is Alltell, though it
> shows up at Cellular One.
Using a handheld phone, over water, with a clear view of the cell site,
which was on a mountain, I ran out of link margin before I ran out of timing
advance. In order to get the maximum range (35 km) I had to use an external
Yagi antenna. At that point it was like running into a brick wall. The phone
would look like it had a signal and would try to connect but it was
hopeless. To really make use of ER you need a very good antenna and maybe a
full-power (Is that Class I or II?) unit. I know of no US carriers who use
ER GSM.

Signature
Donald R. Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
John Henderson - 25 Jun 2007 03:37 GMT
> Using a handheld phone, over water, with a clear view of the
> cell site, which was on a mountain, I ran out of link margin
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> antenna and maybe a full-power (Is that Class I or II?) unit.
> I know of no US carriers who use ER GSM.
I live in Canberra, Australia, and I'm aware of a couple of ER
cells within a few hours drive of me. They're sited very high
up, and probably have excellent antennae. Handset use at 50 km
presents no problems.
John
matt weber - 25 Jun 2007 21:53 GMT
>Looking at old posts, there seems to be no conclusion over the maximum
>distance of GSM. Some argue 35km, others say 120KM.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>distance? Service provider in this location is Alltell, though it
>shows up at Cellular One.
The timing advance limits range to 70km roundtrip. The only way to get
beyond that is to sacrafice the adjacent timing slot, so a channel
only supports 4 calls instead of 8.
It actually is done in a few places, like the Australian outback, but
certainly is not the general case..
You can often 'see' the BTS are ranges far beyond 35km, but because of
the timing advance issues, you cannot get your packet into the timing
slot at the BTS, so the BTS just sees you as interference/noise.
miso@sushi.com - 26 Jun 2007 04:06 GMT
> >Looking at old posts, there seems to be no conclusion over the maximum
> >distance of GSM. Some argue 35km, others say 120KM.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> the timing advance issues, you cannot get your packet into the timing
> slot at the BTS, so the BTS just sees you as interference/noise.
Is there any way to "sniff" the network from a phone to see how it is
set up, or is a service monitor required?