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Cellular Phone Forum / General / GSM / March 2004

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How is GSM in San Francisco bay area?

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Phil - 01 Mar 2004 20:12 GMT
I am looking to replace my family's aging phones, but would like to stay
with AT&T due to company discounts and good rates.  But, apparently they are
slowly migrating from TDMA to GSM, with TDMA suffering degradation of
coverage.  Even the AT&T sales people told me they are getting complaints.
I like some phones available from AT&T, but the only ones I want are GSM,
not TDMA.  I have concerns over the GSM coverage, something even the sales
people at the AT&T store shared.  as the but am worried about coverage.
AT&T maps are too general to be of much use, so wondering if anyone knows
how GSM works in the San Francisco bay area, and in particular between the
Easy Bay all the way down to Santa Cruz (U.C. campus).

- Phil
Jerry Medlin - 02 Mar 2004 00:14 GMT
GSM is pretty good in the Bay Area.

http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi/imap_gsminfo.pl5?cou=us&net=at&z=2&x=14&y=15&frame=middle

> I am looking to replace my family's aging phones, but would like to stay
> with AT&T due to company discounts and good rates.  But, apparently they are
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> - Phil
Steven M. Scharf - 02 Mar 2004 03:42 GMT
> I am looking to replace my family's aging phones, but would like to stay
> with AT&T due to company discounts and good rates.  But, apparently they are
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> how GSM works in the San Francisco bay area, and in particular between the
> Easy Bay all the way down to Santa Cruz (U.C. campus).

Very poor, as of this juncture. You are right about the deteriorating TDMA
coverage on AT&T, they call it "Bandwidth Clearing" as they convert 800 Mhz
TDMA bandwidth over to GSM. AT&T is not as bad as Cingular, but it isn't
great, at least not yet.

I can only tell you first hand about Cingular GSM in the bay area, it sucks.
I don't have first hand experience with AT&T GSM, since all the people I
know with AT&T refuse to change from TDMA to GSM. But I used to see a lot of
people on Craigslist.org trying to unload their AT&T GSM phones after giving
up on it. Parts of the East Bay sucks on Cingular, i.e. the Berkeley hills,
but I can't tell you about AT&T. The AT&T salespeople will tell you ANYTHING
to get you to switch to GSM.

Verizon is the best carrier, by far, in the San Francisco Bay Area. And if
you ever go outside the urban core, up to Marin headlands, south of
Monterey, San Mateo coast, Yosemite, etc., you'll definitely want AMPS
coverage. So if you go AT&T get the SE T62u handset (it sucks, but it's the
only GAIT handset they offer).

Are you sure that you don't get company discounts on Verizon? Here's a
partial list of Verizon discounts:

3M (Unknown)
AAA (0%)
Abbott Labs (17%)
ABC  (?%) Limited Area
Alabama State University  (8%) Limited Area
Albertsons  ( 15%)
Allstate (?%)
American Express (?%)
Amgen (?%)
Arizona State University 13%
Banner Health (15%)
Bloomberg (?%)
Boeing (20%)
Caterpillar (?%)
CBS (?%)
Circuit City (?%)
Cisco (15%)
Coca-Cola (20%)
State of Colorado (5-15%)
Columbia HCA  (?%)
Compaq  (5%)
De Paul Group (12%) Philadelphia
Dell (?%)
Disney  ( $10 + 0.11/minute or $20 for 100 minutes with $0.40/minute extra,
but no phones available so can't proceed!)
Dupont  (17%)
Federal Express (15-23%)
Federated (?%)
Fuji (?%)
GE  (?%)
HP (?%)
Home Depot  (25%)
IBM (21%)
State of Illinois Employees (18%)
Kaiser Permenante (18%)
K-Mart (unknown)
King County Credit Union (13%) Seattle Area
Lucent (17%)
Merck (?%)
Merrill Lynch (?%)
Microsoft 17%
Montana State Employees (15%)
National Semiconductor (?%)
Nissan (8%)
Nortel (15%)
Northside Independent School District (5-15%)
Oracle (?%)
PG&E (?%)
Pfizer (?%)
Philips (5%)
Qualcomm (17%)
Seventh Day Adventist Church (13%)
Rite Aid (15%)
Rutgers (15%)
Safeway (15%)
Schlumberger (15%)
State Farm (?%)
Schneider (15%)
Toysrus (?%)
Turner Construction ( 10%)
UPS (20%)
U.S. Postal Service Workers get 20-25% off, no website access.
Verizon (20%)
Verizon Retention for Northeast (12%) Open to anyone whose zip code is valid
Verizon Accessories (25-35% off accessories, open to everyone)
Walgreens (?%)
State of Wyoming Employees, (15%)
Xerox (13%)

Steve
San Francisco Bay Area Cellular Comparison http://sfbacell.com
jeannette - 02 Mar 2004 17:54 GMT
Ok I am really confused. I am a crusing sailor and would like to have
a phone that works just about every places I visit.
I am leaving for Mexico in a few months to cruise the sea of Cortez. I
would like a phone that will work down there and also give me internet
access when connected to my laptop.
I also travel to Europe once a year and would like the phone to work
there also.
I have a Cingular phone right and it has a sims card. Can I use that
phone?.
How does the prepaid thing I read about works?. Where do you get the
sisms card and when do you put them in the phone?

Can someone run me thru the various options assuming I am stupid? (as
in GSM for Dummies)

Thanks,

Jeannette
aa6jh
Bristol 32, San Francisco
http://www.eblw.com/contepartiro/contepartiro.html
John Navas - 02 Mar 2004 18:50 GMT
>Ok I am really confused. I am a crusing sailor and would like to have
>a phone that works just about every places I visit.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Can someone run me thru the various options assuming I am stupid? (as
>in GSM for Dummies)

If you have a multi-band "world phone," ask Cingular to unlock your phone (for
international travel), and then you'll be able to use prepaid local SIMs in
the different countries you visit.  Otherwise buy an unlocked "world phone"
(e.g., on eBay), and use it when you travel.

For data, you'll need to be sure that both the phone and the prepaid local SIM
account support CSD and/or GPRS.

Bon voyage!  I'm jealous!

Signature

Best regards,        HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas           <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular

John Henderson - 02 Mar 2004 19:17 GMT
> Ok I am really confused. I am a crusing sailor and would like
> to have a phone that works just about every places I visit.

One problem for you with GSM is the limited real coverage of
individual cells.  Because of timing constraints, the usable
range is limited to 35 km from the base station.  You may get
strong signal much further away than this (especially at sea),
but the phone will not work (neither for voice nor SMS).

There are a very, very small number of extended range GSM cells
world-wide, which will work to 72 km.  These do not support GPRS
data.  I mention them only to prevent someone correcting me.

> I am leaving for Mexico in a few months to cruise the sea of
> Cortez. I would like a phone that will work down there and also
> give me internet access when connected to my laptop.
> I also travel to Europe once a year and would like the phone to
> work there also.

GSM World (http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/index.shtml) has
information on roaming, as well as reasonably up-to-date coverage
maps.

> I have a Cingular phone right and it has a sims card. Can I use
> that phone?.

You'll need a phone with enough bands to cover the international
frequency range.  That's at least tri-band (900, 1800 & 1900
MHz).

> How does the prepaid thing I read about works?. Where do you
> get the sisms card and when do you put them in the phone?

Just buy the pre-paid pack when you arrive (usually widely
available, even from convenience grocery stores).  There'll be a
holder for it in the back of the phone, probably under the
battery.

> Can someone run me thru the various options assuming I am
> stupid? (as in GSM for Dummies)

http://www.mobileshop.org/ is another very informative (UK based)
GSM site.

John
Steven M. Scharf - 03 Mar 2004 15:20 GMT
> Ok I am really confused. I am a crusing sailor and would like to have
> a phone that works just about every places I visit.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Bristol 32, San Francisco
> http://www.eblw.com/contepartiro/contepartiro.html

Your best option is to use Cingular, but be sure to get an unlocked
quad-band phone. Cingular has good roaming rates in Mexico. Not sure about
data access via cell phone down there, I kind of doubt if it would work.
Note that Cingular has recently been refusing to unlock world-band handsets,
so you may have to buy an unlocked quad band handset on-line (high prices).
Or you can just buy a separate unlocked handset (900/1800 Mhz) for Europe
and Asia, these are inexpensive.

North America: GSM: 800 Mhz/1900 Mhz (sometimes 800 Mhz is called 850 Mhz,
but it's the same thing)
Rest of World with GSM: 900 Mhz/1800 Mhz.

Off the U.S. coast, AMPS will have the greatest range from shore, so you may
want to get a pre-paid TDMA/AMPS phone from e-Call Plus. These are cheap.
This is only if you'd like access close to the U.S. coast, but you'll haver
radios for emergency use I presume.

In the Bay Area, GSM service is pretty bad (consistently ranked the worst in
coverage, other than Nextel), but if you want a single handset that will
also work in Europe, then you're stuck with GSM (many people, including
myself, use Verizon CDMA in the U.S., and keep an unlocked GSM handset for
use in Europe and Asia). As my old boss said, "on Cingular, I can call my
wife from Beijing, but not from Santa Clara," (of course in Beijing he was
roaming onto another carrier).

In Europe and Asia, it's much more economical to buy pre-paid SIM cards and
stick them into your world-band phone, then to roam internationally. As to
where to buy them, check out http://www.prepaidgsm.net/ , more specifically,
http://www.prepaidgsm.net/en/operators.html. It'll tell you more than you
want to know! In Taiwan, I buy them at convenience stores such as 7-11. But
remember, you'll have a local phone number, and you won't be roaming and
receiving calls to your U.S. number. Be certain not to turn your phone on
with your U.S. SIM card installed because the U.S. carrier will start
charging you international roaming, even for calls to your voice-mail.
Better to leave a message on your home phone machine with your international
number.

Data services mau be unavailable with pre-paid SIM cards. Bring an 802.11
equipped PDA (i.e. Toshiba, Dell), and get a list of free 802.11 hot spots.
Too bad the new generation of UPCs won't be ready by the time you go (Ultra
Personal Computer).

There are also call-back GSM services, that work with specific handsets.
This is a good option if you'll be in a lot of different countries, because
other pre-paid SIM cards, while cheaper, are country specific. The way the
call-back system works is that when you call someone, you're actually
calling the service provider and sending them (automatically) the number you
wish to call. Then they call that number, they call you back, and connect
you together. This takes advantage of the fact that it many, if not most,
other countries, incoming calls to cell phones are free. The disadvantage is
that your phone number isn't local, it's in Luxumborg (sp?). And again, it
only works with handsest that are capable of being programmed to divert any
call to the service provider and transmit the number you are calling (they
have a list of compatible handsets on their web site).

See: http://www.earthroam.com (one of my sites) for a lot of information on
worldwide roaming.

Steve
John Navas - 02 Mar 2004 18:43 GMT
>I am looking to replace my family's aging phones, but would like to stay
>with AT&T due to company discounts and good rates.  But, apparently they are
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>how GSM works in the San Francisco bay area, and in particular between the
>Easy Bay all the way down to Santa Cruz (U.C. campus).

GSM coverage is pretty good in most of the Bay Area, although there are some
dead/weak spots, depending on carrier.

Signature

Best regards,        HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas           <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular

 
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