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Cellular Phone Forum / Manufacturers / Nokia / February 2008N82 maps and gps without data costs ?
Hi What maps and software should I use with the Nokia N82? My preferences - in rank order Only use data connection when wifi available - don't use GSM network Load maps for most of Europe inc Romania, Norway and Russia Find current location on map Get directions on map - using postcode or address Find and store points of interest Get voice direction instructions while travelling. I realise I will not get all of these without sending data via the mobile network. but - which of thse services can I get without using gsm data. What software / maps should I use. I do not want to pay a subscription for Nokia maps and do not want to pay for data costs while roaming. Any advice or additional tips would be appreciated. Thanks ColinK > I do not want to pay a subscription for Nokia maps and do not want to > pay for data costs while roaming. Well, nokia maps can do all of it apart from voice-guided directions, you can load your maps onto the device so that it doesn't need to use the network to load them. I'm not sure on coverage for Europe though as I've got no need to check. If you desperately need voice-guided directions then you won't get anything decent for free unless you nick it, however if you find something that's nearly there, Nokia Maps actually uses fairly little storage space so you can always use whatever directional app you need for getting from A to B while using the free services of Nokia Maps to make up for any failures. You can plan a route in nokia maps without paying for it, all that you can't do is actually use the voice-guided navigation, it's pretty good for finding out where you are and what's around you, just not much good for use in a car. I've been playing with Tomtom, Nokia Maps and Garmin Mobile XT in an attempt to find out which ones are actually worth using, they're all far from perfect, Tomtom would be the best if it supported the internal GPS of the N95 but tomtom seem to have deserted the S60 platform, Garmin would be much better if it didn't crash so often and occasionally lose *all* routes, waypoints and settings, and if it had better search facilities, and Nokia Maps is a little too simple at the moment. I have however not checked out Nokia Maps 2.0 Beta much. I've loaded it onto the phone but not played with it so far. Garmin does however have the advantage of a PC-based application called Mapsource which can make up for some of its shortcomings, including being able to restore your data if the mobile app chomps it all, although that's not much use if you're away from the computer! Currently my wallet is waiting for Tomtom 7 with support for the N95 internal GPS to come out, if it's not out by the middle of the year then it'll have to be either Garmin or Nokia Maps (depending on how it develops). However, don't write off Nokia Maps too quickly, it's free for most functionality and doesn't need to use the network, and you can buy routing capability for a week or month for a very cheap price so you can evaluate the product, a feature which you don't get with Garmin or Tomtom so you can evaluate it without having to resort to dodgy copies. Nokia also seem determined to push it hard, while tomtom have left the S60 platform at version 6 without simple changes to enable it to work with internal GPSes, so you'd be unwise to buy that at the moment unless they show signs of continuing to support the platform. The copyright nazis will foam at the mouth at this suggestion, but your best bet is to get dodgy copies of the main apps for evaluation, the software market is difficult because you usually have to pay for an app before you can find out if it's any good. There's no way to evaluate these complicated apps beforehand without stealing them, then of course it's up to your conscience about whether you pay for them. Paying will give you access to the online services, which IMHO appear to be worth it, they were in tomtom's case, and Garmin's appear to be pretty good too. Not a problem with Nokia's payment model though, you can thoroughly test it for a minimal fee, and traffic update support is in the 2.0 beta although not functioning well yet.  SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/ >> I do not want to pay a subscription for Nokia maps and do not want to >> pay for data costs while roaming. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > can thoroughly test it for a minimal fee, and traffic update support > is in the 2.0 beta although not functioning well yet. When do you experience crashes with Garmin? That hasn't happened for me and I use it frequently for prolonged periods. > When do you experience crashes with Garmin? That hasn't happened for > me and I use it frequently for prolonged periods. So far none while in navigation mode, it's always been when moving around the menus, doing searches or selecting menu entries, one second I'm using garmin, next second I'm back at the phone's standby screen. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/ > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Thanks ColinK Garmin Mobile XT. All that and no data usage. If you need to download extra maps, use your computer and transfer them to the phone. I use it in my N82 and it's extremely accurate. > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Thanks ColinK just get an iphone, no charges for maps or gps. > just get an iphone, no charges for maps or gps. So you get turn by turn voice navigation for free without needing to have a data connection on the iphone? No you don't. Try paying attention. And there's no charge for GPS on the N82 or N95. Go back to polishing your closed, restricted toy. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/ Ian Rawlings <news06@tarcus.org.uk> wrote in news:slrnfrih7s.oja.news06 @desktop.tarcus.org.uk: > So you get turn by turn voice navigation for free without needing to > have a data connection on the iphone? No you don't. Try paying > attention. http://www.nseries.com/N810 Internal GPS. Wayfinder software included now that Nokia bought the company. Maps stored on internal memory cards. No Sellphone carrier funny business. Maemo Mapper, free from the Linux hackers, requires sellphone data connection if you want map/sat photo updates in realtime, but you can load them onto the memory cards on wifi at home, if you like. Sellphone service not required. > Maemo Mapper, free from the Linux hackers, requires sellphone data > connection if you want map/sat photo updates in realtime, but you can > load them onto the memory cards on wifi at home, if you like. Last version I tried on my Nokia N770 also needs a connection to plan a route, and can't auto recalculate. The closest competent app to "free" appears to be Nokia Maps, it can plot a route and is much better than Maemo Mapper, and if you suddenly need voice-guided navigation you can whip out the credit card and provided you have a GPRS/3G connection at the time, buy a short-timescale cheap license right there and then. I did that out in the middle of nowhere. Once it's bought, you don't need the net connection. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/ >> Maemo Mapper, free from the Linux hackers, requires sellphone data >> connection if you want map/sat photo updates in realtime, but you can [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >the middle of nowhere. Once it's bought, you don't need the net >connection. Thanks for that information. I was wondering if it needed the Internet connection to actually do the voice routing. I may have to give it a try. SignatureJim Rusling More or Less Retired Mustang, OK http://www.rusling.org Ian Rawlings <news06@tarcus.org.uk> wrote in news:slrnfrj9ok.oja.news06 @desktop.tarcus.org.uk: >> Maemo Mapper, free from the Linux hackers, requires sellphone data >> connection if you want map/sat photo updates in realtime, but you can [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the middle of nowhere. Once it's bought, you don't need the net > connection. That's true. Mapper uses an external service over the net for route planning. Wayfinder, the N810 resident map program does not. It's self-contained. I don't see how these little phones are going to have enough storage for the complex mapping programs, complete with data and maps. I just plugged my 8GB SDHC Class 6 into the Windows box and the Navicore (same as Wayfinder) root directory is: 1.46 GB (1,578,270,720 bytes) in 30 directories of 324 files, which includes all the POI, map data, etc., for all of North America, a free upgrade N800 Navicore buyers can now download since Nokia bought the company. Before, you only got half the USA, your choice which half, then had to buy more. Navicore came with the N800 Navigation Kit (external Nokia GPS puck, N800's great mobile suction cup mount to stick it to the windscreen and the Navicore commercial software. It was about $180 at buy.com at that time. I quoted the N810 because he wanted an all in one unit with software installed. Actually, having played with both, and using portable GPS units on sailboats, I think that would be a mistake. The external GPS works much better than internal because you can place the GPS with the best view of the sky for best accuracy, while putting the tablet where you can see it the best, which in a car ends up UNDER the metal roof with poor sky visibility and lots of reflected signals which is bad for an accurate fix. The N800/external GPS just works the best I've ever owned. It will put you in a particular parking space on Virtual Earth's satellite photo under Maemo Mapper...and will drive you down the exact lane you are driving in on the composite map/satphoto as you go along, downloading the appropriate mosaics of both over the BT DUN from the Sellphone modem. I use Maemo Mapper lots more than I do Navicore/Wayfinder's talking routing. Too bad Nokia doesn't combine the two into a Wayfinder using Virtual Earth's sat photos. As to the Sellphone, itself, having 1.5GB of data and not requiring data connections, question: Would you sell the customers a stand alone system that didn't require them to pay you by the month for data to feed it? Of course you wouldn't! That'd be crazy! That's why I call it a SELLphone....(c; > I don't see how these little phones are going to have enough storage for > the complex mapping programs, complete with data and maps. Well, I've got Nokia Maps with all of the UK loaded, which takes up 164 megs for all the UK roads down to tiny ones like mine, I also have Garmin Mapsource and tried loading a full UK map onto my ETrex but it wanted a similar amount of space and I only had 64 megs on the etrex. Garmin Mobile XT has the whole of the UK in 172 megs. Rememeber this is full maps with lots of waypoints such as fuel stations, underground stations, railway stations, cashpoints etc. Tomtom Mobile's Western Europe maps, full road maps and waypoints for the UK, France, Germany etc etc, takes up about 900 megs. On my Tomtom 910 the Western Europe map took up about 400 megs more, I don't know why it's bigger as I don't recall the detail being any better and Tomtom Mobile also has the speed limits like the 910 (which are a great help in calculating journey times accurately). A modern mobile phone can have a GPS built in and 8 gig of storage so the above is no problem. Even mid-range phones can have storage cards that can easily cope with the above. > Actually, having played with both, and using portable GPS > units on sailboats, I think that would be a mistake. The external GPS [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > with poor sky visibility and lots of reflected signals which is bad for > an accurate fix. In theory that's correct, however in practice the deterioration of the signal is nowhere near bad enough for it to be a problem, when first playing with my phone I put it in the metal cup holder of the cubby box in my land rover, so it was level with my hip, in a metal box with an open top, and still it kept a lock on and talked to me from there, and this was driving through narrow streets in Bath with lots of tall buildings either side! I was very impressed. In the past few weeks I've never had the slightest problem with the signal reception of the GPS built into the phone, and I've been keeping careful track of it as I'm evaluating it for more permanent use. I have a total of 7 GPSes, two Garmin hand-held units, four bluetooth units, three of which are Sirfstar III chipsets, and one GPS-equipped mobile phone. Out of those, the mobile phone is the one to get lock the fastest and is the only one that can get a 3D fix when I'm sat downstairs in my house, the others can't get a fix at all and lose fix if I allow them to get a fix outside and then walk inside. The Nokia N95 GPS however can pick up a fix from cold in my lounge, while I'm holding it, no need to place it on a table without anything around it. Very impressive. Also I'm not talking about a marginal fix, I mean 6-10 satellites, low strength yes, but none of the others can touch that, especially if I've got my hand wrapped around the antenna (the N95 GPS antenna is in the keypad, where you hold it). > As to the Sellphone, itself, having 1.5GB of data and not requiring data > connections, question: Would you sell the customers a stand alone > system that didn't require them to pay you by the month for data to feed > it? Of course you wouldn't! That'd be crazy! You would if you were trying to make it a selling point, however while Nokia Maps is free for use just plotting where you are, plotting routes or searching for points nearby, it's not free for voice-guided navigation, that costs about £45 per year or so. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/ > Once it's bought, you don't need the net connection. So the capability to issue voice directions is built-into Nokia Maps, you just need an active licence to use it? You can plan a route (and follow it on screen) without paying? That wasn't clear from anything else I've read about it. It makes the N95 an altogether much more attractive proposition. What's the level of detail like on Nokia Maps, compares with (say) the TomTom? Does the N95 have worthwhile PIM apps (diary, addressbook, To-Do list) and are they usable with the keypad? (Yes, I know, this isn't the really the place to ask, but (as sort-of noted above) it's hard to discover any meaningful information about these things except by asking.) Cheers, Daniel. > So the capability to issue voice directions is built-into Nokia Maps, > you just need an active licence to use it? Yes that's right, also traffic updates will be a paid for service too. > You can plan a route (and > follow it on screen) without paying? You can plan a route for free, but it won't plot your position on the map as then you could use it like Google Maps, which is dangerous in a car. > That wasn't clear from anything else I've read about it. It makes the > N95 an altogether much more attractive proposition. Not just the N95, any S60 series 3 phone I think, some cheap options are available. If the phone doesn't have GPS then it can use a bluetooth GPS. If you're thinking of upgrading your phone then consider a Nokia S60 series 3 phone, or even a Windows Mobile if you're into that, they can run tomtom and I'm sure there's other packages. > What's the level of detail like on Nokia Maps, compares with (say) the > TomTom? I've not noticed any major differences, and I've been a tomtom user for many years. I live in an area with a lot of small roads and it's been fine, but I've not used Nokia Maps throughout the country. > Does the N95 have worthwhile PIM apps (diary, addressbook, To-Do list) > and are they usable with the keypad? (Yes, I know, this isn't the > really the place to ask, but (as sort-of noted above) it's hard to > discover any meaningful information about these things except by > asking.) It's OK, but nowhere near as good as Palm's tools, which themselves were nowhere near as good as Psion's tools. However I've since learned to use the reduced functionality, and no longer bother with things like todo categories and event categories like I used to do, after all there's only one of me, and I ended up with todo lists on my palm that have hundreds of entries. You have to learn to do without things like repeating todos (in fact anything other than timed appointments can't repeat), however this is only if you stick to the built-in apps, there's a huge number of Symbian applications available, if you used to load lots of odd stuff onto your current PDA then it's no different with the N95 and there are a lot of alternative PIM apps. I use Handy Calendar which is quite simple and just uses the standard database so there's no compatibility issues with syncing software but there's much more capable stuff available. As for the keypad, yes it's pretty usable, more so than trying to use an on-screen keyboard or handwriting recognition mostly and can be used one-handed so you can slouch around drinking coffee while sorting your life out! The predictive text input is good but sometimes some apps turn it off when presenting you with a text entry box and won't let you turn it on, which is stupid but not too bad. So far I'm very impressed with the N95, it doesn't do anything extremely well, but does lots of things well enough. It's replaced my ipod and itunes, battery powered speakers, Tomtom 910, Palm T3, digital snapshot camera and normal mobile phone. It's also good enough to read websites on, so I read the BBC news website in the morning on it rather than my desktop computer. You've got at least 3 capable satnav systems available that cost around the £45-£90 mark although tomtom won't use the internal GPS yet so don't buy that. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/ > You've got at least 3 capable satnav systems available that cost > around the £45-£90 mark although tomtom won't use the internal GPS > yet so don't buy that. Something else worth mentioning however is that the phone doesn't have a touch screen which doesn't really have much impact, it means you can use the setup one-handed and don't have to keep reaching for a stylus but on tomtom it does make selecting a specific POI a little harder, you can however just get the cursor near it, hit a few keys to search for nearby POIs and select the one you want. Nokia maps and garmin have a pixel-perfect joystick-controlled pointer that you can use. The reason I bring this up is because this year, second half I think, Nokia are bringing out new phones which are supposed to have touch screens so it might be worth watching what happens. I'm not sure it'll be an improvement, it's rather a nice change not to have to occupy your other hand with a stylus to poke away at a screen. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/ > You can plan a route for free, but it won't plot your position on the > map as then you could use it like Google Maps, which is dangerous in a > car. That sounds like a stupid reason for a limitation. It shouldn't assume it knows whether you're in a car, and it shouldn't assume that you're the driver if you are. I suspect the real reason is to encourage you to pay for the navigation service. Thanks for the info, anyway. > If you're thinking of upgrading your phone then consider a Nokia S60 > series 3 phone, or even a Windows Mobile if you're into that, ... I can't see any phone out there that I'd want to replace my Nokia 6310i/CARK-91 combo with, TBH. There are lots of devices that have attractive features but none of them constitute a package that I'd be prepared to pay for (and replace the car kit, etc). A N95 with HVGA screen and qwerty keyboard might do it for me ... I do NOT want Windows Mobile in a phone ... I'd like to think that I'll only miss calls because I can't hear the ringer and not because the phone has crashed ... but on the other hand, a phone with GPS in that could run TomTom and Memory Map would be attractive ... but if it ran MM I'd want it to be waterproof ... There are so many bits of kit that have great features, but none of them have all the features I'd like without any drawbacks. > It's OK, but nowhere near as good as Palm's tools, which themselves > were nowhere near as good as Psion's tools. OK, understood. As a Psion 3, 3a, 3c, 5 (too bulky, back to 3c) and Revo (crap battery, back to 3c) and more recently Palm Tungsten user I understand that perfectly. SymbianOS seems a lot less usable -- and the supplied apps less functional -- than it was when it was Psion's EPOC (if my wife's SE 910i is anything to judge by). > The predictive text input is good ... Ooh, I HATE predictive text ... or, perhaps, what I mean is that I like it when it works correctly, but the implementation on the 6310i makes you jump through too many hoops to override it when it gets things wrong -- easier just to turn it off (but then "Insert Symbol" disappears from the options menu) ... Thanks again for the info. Cheers, Daniel. |
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