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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Sprint PCS / July 2005Post-Analog: What is the plan for Sprint?
After the final switch is turned-off for analog cellular in the United Stated, what will happen to Sprint? Sprint does not have an extremely large foot-print for native service and therefore it will need to rely on digital roaming on Verizon and other Digital CDMA carriers. Sprint will certainly need to negotiate good digital roaming agreements, otherwise there will be too much of a gap on their service maps. I wonder if new phones in the future will offer both CDMA and GSM since that is all that will be left in the United States after the demise of analog. What do you all think? What will the future bring for Sprint? -mij > After the final switch is turned-off for analog cellular in the United > Stated, what will happen to Sprint? Sprint does not have an extremely large [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > -mij You make it sound like analog is going away tomorrow. It still serves a major service for those small markets where none of the big wireless telcos have any service and analog will be here for quite some time. Bob > You make it sound like analog is going away tomorrow. It still serves a > major service for those small markets where none of the big wireless telcos > have any service and analog will be here for quite some time. Regardless, if Sprint gives a rat's a.s about their customers, they'll start inking more CDMA digital roaming agreements. Analog is completely insecure, and with the current administration in the White House wanting to give law enforcement the ability to do almost anything they want to without a warrant or probable cause, I don't want to use AMPS anymore. At all. Shifting completely to CDMA won't totally prevent "We're from the government, we're here to help" lackeys from being able to snoop on you, any more than even the fanciest, most expensive car alarm will keep the most determined professional burglars from stealing your car. What it WILL do is make it more expensive and more of a hassle for them or anyone else to eavesdrop on your cellular conversations. It's all about security and privacy.  SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED Company website: http://JustThe.net/ Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/ E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307 > > You make it sound like analog is going away tomorrow. It still serves a > > major service for those small markets where none of the big wireless telcos [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > It's all about security and privacy. Sure it is, and I'm sure that it's SPCS's intent to sign up with as many digital roaming partners as possible. In saying that, there are still areas in the boonies that no one has digital coverage. Bob >> You make it sound like analog is going away tomorrow. It still serves a >> major service for those small markets where none of the big wireless telcos [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >It's all about security and privacy. If you're talking about Government monitoring, then it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever whether the radio portion of the network is analog, digital, CDMA, TDMA, GSM, or any of the other standards because they have their taps located AFTER all of that, in the regular TCP/IP portion of the network. OTOH, if you meant any old Joe Blow being able to listen in, then yes, analog is less secure because anyone with a scanner that's able to receive those frequencies will be able to listen in. They're not supposed to, of course, but that's another story entirely. SignaturePaul Miner > If you're talking about Government monitoring, then it makes > absolutely no difference whatsoever whether the radio portion of the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > will be able to listen in. They're not supposed to, of course, but > that's another story entirely. As I mentioned, CDMA encryption is not a panacea. Plus, law enforcement can get a warrant and force the landline and cellular carriers to install a tap within the POTS or cellular network. But *legal* wiretaps aren't really my concern. My concern is with wiretaps where the government pulls a stunt like invoking the Patriot Act or something like that, where (legally) the wiretap is in a gray area and they're trying to pull my conversation off the airwaves. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED Company website: http://JustThe.net/ Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/ E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307 Again, delusions of grandeur. Nobody cares what you have to say on your phone unless you are a terrorist, then they should not only eavesdrop on your phone, but cut your throat as well. scannell cols oh > As I mentioned, CDMA encryption is not a panacea. Plus, law enforcement > can get a warrant and force the landline and cellular carriers to install [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (legally) the wiretap is in a gray area and they're trying to pull my > conversation off the airwaves. > Again, delusions of grandeur. Nobody cares what you have to say on your > phone unless you are a terrorist, then they should not only eavesdrop on > your phone, but cut your throat as well. It's not that I think I'm important, my friend. The government has gone way overboard in their desire to root out terrorists. They've made it quite clear that they want law enforcement to be able to do a lot of things without warrants that currently require them. This is no big secret. It's not that I think the FBI gives a damn about me personally. I'm pretty convinced they don't. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED Company website: http://JustThe.net/ Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/ E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307 Yes, that is correct, however, CDMA, GSM, or any other digital transmission will prevent the geek kid that lives down the street from eavesdropping on your conversation with a modified police scanner. I never give out credit card numbers of any personal information on an analog connection for this reason. Note that this rule also applies to analog cordless telephones. -mij >> You make it sound like analog is going away tomorrow. It still serves a >> major service for those small markets where none of the big wireless [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > It's all about security and privacy. > Analog is completely insecure, and with the current administration in > the White House wanting to give law enforcement the ability to do almost > anything they want to without a warrant or probable cause, I don't want > to use AMPS anymore. At all. Steve, if the government wants to eavesdrop on your phone conversations, they generally won't bother to do it over the air. It's much easier for them to get a warrant and have the cellular carrier's compliance office set up a tap for them at the MTSO, which pretty much circumvents any over the air interface, no matter how secure. SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. What is a "MTSO"? It is a new acronym for me. >> Analog is completely insecure, and with the current administration in the >> White House wanting to give law enforcement the ability to do almost [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > set up a tap for them at the MTSO, which pretty much circumvents any over > the air interface, no matter how secure. > What is a "MTSO"? It is a new acronym for me. Mobile Telephone Switching Office Mij, I might recommend that you bookmark this following link, as it's pretty helpful in finding acronyms. http://www.acronymfinder.com/ Bob >> What is a "MTSO"? It is a new acronym for me. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Bob That's a pretty good site. They even had a couple of entries for YGBSM, the motto of the Air Force Wild Weasels. Of course, the real motto is the impolite version, but close enough. :) SignaturePaul Miner Analog will go away as soon as the FCC allows cellular carriers to turn it off. I have heard that this will occur within the next several years. In this case, OnStar will also have problems since they use analog only service and probably get very good rates from the cell carriers for doing so. -mij >> After the final switch is turned-off for analog cellular in the United >> Stated, what will happen to Sprint? Sprint does not have an extremely [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Bob > Analog will go away as soon as the FCC allows cellular carriers to turn it > off. I have heard that this will occur within the next several years. In > this case, OnStar will also have problems since they use analog only service No longer true. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED Company website: http://JustThe.net/ Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/ E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307 If you look at both Sprint PCS' and verizon's web site, you will see there are very, very, few areas where there is only analog. Almost all cellular carriers have overlaid their analog service with either CDMA or gsm. >>After the final switch is turned-off for analog cellular in the United >>Stated, what will happen to Sprint? Sprint does not have an extremely [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Bob > If you look at both Sprint PCS' and verizon's web site, you will see > there are very, very, few areas where there is only analog. Almost all > cellular carriers have overlaid their analog service with either CDMA or > gsm. If you look at Sprint's website, you won't see any analog. :D I believe Verizon has CDMA everywhere now and has for some time. They do additionally have AMPS in some of their legacy markets. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED Company website: http://JustThe.net/ Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/ E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307 Looking at Sprint PCS' web site for Wisc. will show some analog roaming, not a lot, even some no service areas. I have not really looked around for it, but I remember verizon had some analog areas in Oregon. >> If you look at both Sprint PCS' and verizon's web site, you will >> see there are very, very, few areas where there is only analog. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I believe Verizon has CDMA everywhere now and has for some time. They do > additionally have AMPS in some of their legacy markets. > Looking at Sprint PCS' web site for Wisc. will show some analog > roaming, not a lot, even some no service areas. I have not really > looked around for it, but I remember verizon had some analog areas in > Oregon. When I said you won't see any analog, I meant you won't see any *native* analog. Most of that AMPS roaming *should* be CDMA by now. I don't know how much of it is. Regarding Oregon, Google for Dan Albrich's posts in alt.cellular.verizon. According to his experiences, Verizon's coverage in parts of Oregon is horrible. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED Company website: http://JustThe.net/ Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/ E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307 Almost everywhere there is cellular there is both A and B analog carriers, and usually at least one of those is now also CDMA. Most Sprint PCS phone can roam CDMA cellular. However I am still of the opinion that most Sprint PCS customers do not need to roam. > After the final switch is turned-off for analog cellular in the United > Stated, what will happen to Sprint? Sprint does not have an extremely large [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > -mij Why are you of the opinion that most SprintPCS customers do not need to roam? > Almost everywhere there is cellular there is both A and B analog carriers, > and usually at least one of those is now also CDMA. Most Sprint PCS phone [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >> -mij > Why are you of the opinion that most SprintPCS customers do not need to > roam? If it was such a big deal for a large number of Sprint customers, Sprint would probably offer better roaming options. The "America" addon isn't a bad idea, but it can be restrictive for people who travel extensively and end up off Sprint's network often. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek 888-480-4638 PGP: 0xE3AE35ED Company website: http://JustThe.net/ Personal blog, resume, portfolio: http://SteveSobol.com/ E: sjsobol@JustThe.net Snail: 22674 Motnocab Road, Apple Valley, CA 92307 I wonder what percentage of Sprint PCS customers have added the America option to their plans? What percentage of those that regularly use it? What is the percentage of roaming minutes, both under america options and paid per minute. >> Why are you of the opinion that most SprintPCS customers do not need >> to roam? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > bad idea, but it can be restrictive for people who travel extensively > and end up off Sprint's network often. > Jerome Zelinske wrote: > However I am still of the opinion that most Sprint PCS customers do not need to roam. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> Why are you of the opinion that most SprintPCS customers do not need >> to roam? As I'm roaming 1/3 of the time on Verizon's analog (I assume its Verizon as my company Cingular phone was out of range and my buddy's Verizon phone still worked)...my initial knee-jerk reaction was "what did you base your opinion on that most Sprint users don't need to roam..." As i thought about it, in reality, VERY VERY few users ever need to roam *taken in the context that most usage is in principle cities.* Case in point, a trade magazine quoted a Cingular spokesman as saying x percentage of users (something like 95%)in Texas will be GSM by the end of some year. Since was referring to the number of minutes used, not number of cities or areas, his statement was misleading as 95% of the users would be in the Dallas & Ft. Worth, Houston, and San Antonio areas. To this end, a carrier could drop ALL service outside of the most profitable areas, and still make lot of money...actually more perhaps as thousands of little used tower sites could be retired. It is my opinion, and we all have some, that since most of the large and medium carriers, not just Sprint PCS, will not sign up people who do not live in their covered area, and those areas are large enough that most of the customers will spend most of their time in it. There are some people, including me, that have not traveled beyond Sprint PCS coverage for years. > Why are you of the opinion that most SprintPCS customers do not need to > roam? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>> >>>-mij > After the final switch is turned-off for analog cellular in the United > Stated, what will happen to Sprint? Sprint does not have an extremely large > foot-print for native service and therefore it will need to rely on digital > roaming on Verizon and other Digital CDMA carriers. Sprint will certainly > need to negotiate good digital roaming agreements, otherwise there will be > too much of a gap on their service maps. Your post-AMPS vision is erring on the side of chicken little. First off, the sunset date for AMPS doesn't REQUIRE everyone to turn of AMPS after the date has passed. It merely eliminates the requirement that current AMPS levels be maintained. If a carrier chooses to continue using AMPS, they are certainly allowed to do so. Second, if every AMPS switch just turns off, that doesn't mean coverage will just disappear. Cellular carriers would likely replace the coverage with some digital format, most likely a mix of CDMA and GSM (or UMTS). SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. |
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